Can Astronomy Ireland really be considered an 'Astronomy club' anymore?

Iridium

Calibos wrote: »

I gaurantee Hauks/DCU's scope is a Celestron SCT or an ATM Dob.

If I remember correctly the scope at DCU is a Celestron C10-N, unless they've upgraded it.

Didn't know that DCU Astrosoc was back in business but am pleased to hear it. Good luck Hauk et al.

Hauk

Iridium wrote: »

If I remember correctly the scope at DCU is a Celestron C10-N, unless they've upgraded it.

Didn't know that DCU Astrosoc was back in business but am pleased to hear it. Good luck Hauk et al.

You have remembered rightly! It's a great scope altogether.

Thanks very much, I'm looking forward to the year.

Calibos

lithiumoxide wrote: »

I think you hit the nail on the head with the former: if your company was sponsoring an organisation/event, I can't imagine you'd want the competition on your turf either

Out of interest, what scope do you have?

Its a 16" Meade Lightbridge that used to look like this....



But now looks like this....

....

Its their loss tbh

Hadouken!!

Calibos wrote: »

Its a 16" Meade Lightbridge that used to look like this....



But now looks like this....

....

Its their loss tbh

Holy S**t :eek:

What did you do, feed the thing steroids??

Super mod job Calibos, she's a beaut!!

Now THAT I would pay to look through

Our 8" sct feels so insignificant now lol

dbran

Did you make it push-to as welll Calibos?

Calibos

dbran wrote: »

Did you make it push-to as welll Calibos?

That had been the plan all along Dave. I cut my DSC/Push-to teeth on my first scope which was a 12" push-to Orion Intelliscope Dob as you know. It really made nights productive in finding objects. While I do understand the guys who prefer Star-hopping and the thrill of the hunt, I found that I enjoyed that process assuming I found the object within a minute or two. If it took any longer than that I started to feel the 'Frustration of the Hunt'.

So I knew I was a 'Push-to/Goto' kind of guy. Modded and fitted an Orion Intelliscope kit designed for GEM's to it. (Thats the handset you can see in the pic) Only cost me €50(discontinued though). Turns out its just as well it only cost 50 because only last week I discovered there is an electronic fault somewhere in the handset which is a shame. A shame to be scuppered not by your wiring mods to convert it to dob use nor your mounting mods to enable it to mount on your Alt AZ scope, but scuppered by something out of your control, an internal invisible short on the handset circuitboard. I am sure I could eventually fix it or get a replacement, but the episode gave me pause for thought.

Only this week I decided to bite the bullet and splash the cash on a Servocat and Skycommander DSC for the scope and am on the verge of placing the order. Full GOTO. Woohoo!!

In the end I decided that seeing as I had kitted it out with some of the best accessories in other area's that it was a shame to try to do push-to and simple tracking with a JMI TNT on the cheap. The Intelliscope had crapped out on me and the TNT wasn't performing as well as I thought it would. Cut my losses on those and give the scope the GOTO it deserves.

I am confident that this is the last money that gets spent on the scope and I don't envisage any more apeture fever as I have looked through larger dobs and the exponential increase in size,weight and price to get WOW improvement in views does not entice me. This is my last scope, so I may as well make it the best it can be.

That said once the dust settles on my Visa, I'll be wanting a nice Imagingsource planetary cam to replace my webcam and possibly a Video Astronomy Mallincam.......then I'll be totally done........Famous last words!!

Dave Lillis

Super job on modding your scope there Calibos.
So you were told not to bring your scope along, only confirms that AI is A&S.
Its a business and is run as such.

Iridium

But in an e-mail AI sent today, they said they're a non-profit organisation!

I'm ever so confused! :rolleyes:

dbran

Calibos wrote: »

then I'll be totally done........Famous last words!!

Calibos....you know you will never be totally done spending with this hobby:)

Leidenfrost

Great scope Calibos! do you do any solar observing with her?
What's up with the sun and the lack of sunspots this cylce! my mylar filter is going to waste!

I'd just like to say that I went for a job interview with Astronomy and Space a while back and got the job and was put straight into training on the day, I had habitually sent in physics corrections to the Magazine when I noticed them and this seemed to go down well. For example the myth that friction causes the heating of meteors was reiterated, and so I sent in a more factual explanation of the phenomenon- ram pressure.

Apart from the underhanded ''Psychology of marketing'' pep talk Mr.Moore gave to me during my ''training'' he also made a sale awkward when a guy came in to get one thing and I sorted him out, but soon Mr. Moore intervened with his ''marketing genius'' and told him he should not only get the item he wanted but another item too, the guy really didn't want to say no but had to and so Mr.Moore made the whole sale and departure very long and uncomfortable.

However when it came time for me to leave as I live in Meath and needed to get the bus, Mr. Moore cajouled me and a coworker into working past the hour, Safe to say I missed my bus and had to get a hostel for the night.

I never went back and cut off all ties to the ''Charity'' enterprise.

Iridium

Similarly I lasted just one day as an employee. For the first hour or two DM gave me a run down of the whole company, and point blank said to me that the club has x number of members, but he didn't care about that. The drive was purely on getting as many new members as possible. There and then I decided I wasn't coming back in the next day.

Knowing that this is the attitude that AI has towards its members customers, I have cut all ties with them. I used to be a fairly active volunteer but I wouldn't go near one of their events again.

Unless it was in the interest of the hobby, not trying to milk money out of people and leaving a bad taste in their mouth when it comes to astronomy.

Leidenfrost

Mr. Iridium, I thought it was just me! haha, and I feel that a persons interest in Astronomy is stifled when the face of Astronomy here is someone like Mr. Moore.

When by right someone without an extortionist agenda, like Maynooth's Gerard Mc Mahon (course coordinator of Physics with Astrophysics) should be.

Seanie M

Leidenfrost wrote: »

Maynooth's Gerard Mc Mahon

Ha! Is Gery Mac still on the go? I remember when he finally got his Masters some years back! Nice man, he really liked his Experimental Physics...

Seanie.

Leidenfrost

Seanie M wrote: »

Ha! Is Gery Mac still on the go? I remember when he finally got his Masters some years back! Nice man, he really liked his Experimental Physics...

Seanie.

Yes he's a cool guy, He even asks the freshman physics with astrophysics students if they get the Astronomy and Space magazine.

Seanie M

Leidenfrost wrote: »

Yes he's a cool guy, He even asks the freshman physics with astrophysics students if they get the Astronomy and Space magazine.

Traitor... I thought he was an "Astronomy Now" subscriber!

bogman

Astronomy Ireland is a limited company far as I know....If interested I would join an astromomy club linked to IFAS

http://www.irishastronomy.org

Calibos

Just got the latest email from AI. Found it in my spam folder

They are doing a nationwide 'Jupiterwatch' soon with bigger events combined with some 'Doorstep' astronomy as they call it. ie. Sidewalk astronomy.

The email highlights that it is absolutely free. So maybe AI are learning that its bad PR to ask for a 'voluntary' contribution.

That said, I did notice a misleading sentance in the email.

Click Here to see the view that you will get through the telescopes.

Have I got terrible vision or is my scope cr@p (16" Dob) because I have never and I don't think will ever see Jupiter like that through the eyepiece.

barr toco

I was kinda thinkin this myself,

Ill be attending my local jupiter watch tomorow night and bringing along

my scope, Calibos if you cant see that kind of detail through your 16"

then Im doomed with my 6":D, although I do get a nice view of jupiter

and its moons, its nothing like the picture they show, so I just hope

people dont start asking where is the great red spot :D

Stargate

barr toco wrote: »

I was kinda thinkin this myself,

Ill be attending my local jupiter watch tomorow night and bringing along

my scope, Calibos if you cant see that kind of detail through your 16"

then Im doomed with my 6":D, although I do get a nice view of jupiter

and its moons, its nothing like the picture they show, so I just hope

people dont start asking where is the great red spot :D

LOL , Calibos cannot see such detail with his 16" , i have an 8 " and be mighty if i could half the detail shown ha , so point taken barr toco
maybe AI are hooked up to the hubble ST hehehe , great pics from that eh?

squonk

That picture is 'obtained' from a website showing teh top Astronomy pictures of the year. I'll try and dig it out if I can. I think this might be a composite picture, a few placed together in other words. I'll try and dig out the site because the guy who took the picture lists the gear he had taking the photos.

Calibos

Maybe the point of that image is to show the image scale of the planet and the 4 gallilean moons through the eyepiece at a conservative magnification (assuming mediocre seeing) But do you think the public know that. They aren't thinking image scale, they are thinking they are going to see Jupiter with rich coloured cloudbands and 7 or 8 at that, with festoons, and whirl detail in the cloudbands etc. This image is raising their expectations too high.

Show them nothing and they would be thrilled to see the large disc of Jupiter with two reasonable contrast, possibly very light brown Equatorial bands and if lucky a hint of very faint low contrast cloud bands and detail on the rest of the planet, and if very very lucky, the Great 'Cream' Spot Prime them with Astrophotography beforehand though and they'll come away from looking at the real thing disappointed.

AI have made the Cardinal sin of raising expectations with Astrophotograpy which is magnitudes greater in colour, contrast and detail over Visual through the EP.

squonk

Sure if it gets the punters along and gets them on the mailing list so that they can keep claiming to be the biggest club per capita IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD then I suppose they don't care. It'd be nicer though to have people coming back next time because they did't think that what they saw through the telescopes was crap compared to what they were told they'd see!

amen

sorry just noticed this post now (not sure how I missed it) but
a few weeks ago someone mentioned requesting info via email and

Ah you didn't make the mistake of contacting them through e-mail did you? tut tut You now have e-mails for life. Congrats

and Astronomy Ireland don't appear to be registered with the data protection commissioner so you could make a complaint and get your data removed.
They may get fined as well

gowayyalanger

Thanks to all you guys who contributed to this discussion. When I posed the question I had no idea of the depth of feeling there was regarding this topic or that so many people agreed with my perspective. I have read every single post and feel justified in starting this thread.

Thanks again guys.

VeVeX

Just came across this thread while looking at the info on the lunar eclipse.

The fund raising page on the AI site would make you laugh alright. Blaming the government on the lack of funds for science and astronomy then asking for a donation. A donation that can be hand delivered to their SHOP.

A non-profit organisation asking for a donation is completely acceptable. A commercial operation asking for a donation while trading on the recession and lack of government funding is this is totally unacceptable.

bouncy100

I believe AI charge schools (2yoyo per kid, minimum 100 kids) to give outreach lectures. I wonder what the donations go on? Does anyone know? Do the revenue know about this over the counter income?

lithiumoxide

VeVeX wrote: »

Just came across this thread while looking at the info on the lunar eclipse.

The fund raising page on the AI site would make you laugh alright. Blaming the government on the lack of funds for science and astronomy then asking for a donation. A donation that can be hand delivered to their SHOP.

A non-profit organisation asking for a donation is completely acceptable. A commercial operation asking for a donation while trading on the recession and lack of government funding is this is totally unacceptable.

Some people are missing the point here. Any miniscule bit of research will show you that Astronomy Ireland and Astronomy & Space Ltd are two different groups.

It's extremely simple. A&S Ltd sponsor AI, and in return AI promote A&S Ltd on their website. This is how sponsorship works.

lithiumoxide

bouncy100 wrote: »

I believe AI charge schools (2yoyo per kid, minimum 100 kids) to give outreach lectures. I wonder what the donations go on? Does anyone know? Do the revenue know about this over the counter income?

Most visiting groups charge schools. If they don't, it's because they get funding from external sources (government or private or whatever). This is either paid by the pupils and their families, or by the school's central funds. This is the same for all groups, whether or not you realise it.

I think you might be suggesting illegal activity with the Revenue comment? What makes you think it's "over the counter"?

It seems that in this thread people think they have found a target that they want to let loose on. People might have personal opinions regarding AI and A&S, and that's fine. But to start suggesting illegal activity on either part without any hint of real evidence is effectively libel.

Iridium

Libellous accusations aside... VeVeX mentions last night's lunar eclipse.

I had a look at this myself, and took a photo or two. It looked nice enough, to a nerd like me. Other people I know never even noticed it. But earlier in the week a certain David Moore was in the national media prompting this fairly minor and unspectacular eclipse like it was the second coming. I can't help but think that his target audience, mostly people who wouldn't have much of an interest in astronomy, probably heard / read his interviews, had a look for themselves and said to themselves, "Is this it? Can't see what all the fuss is about this astronomy lark." I suspect that more people get turned off astronomy for life as a result of this kind of publicity than actually get bitten by the bug. It's analogous to his own argument about "junkscopes" as far as I'm concerned.

Mr. Moore would be better advised to keep thing in perspective a little bit. Keep the big hype for something like a total lunar eclipse, or an occultation of Venus or something similar. Not blowing everything on a tiny partial eclipse that was barely noticeable. Obviously some publicity is needed for any kind of event, but in my own experience nothing turns people away from something quicker than having something hyped to the Moon (pun intended ), only for it to be a disappointment.

Seanie M

lithiumoxide wrote: »

Most visiting groups charge schools. If they don't, it's because they get funding from external sources (government or private or whatever).

And in some cases, lithiumoxide, one does it for no charge out of the interests in promotion education to the kids for love of the hobby... speaking from experience. Most of those in the rest of the "legit" astronomy clubs around the country acknowledge and support local groups and schools on request for an astronomy and/or space lecture or exhibit. It's not rocket science! The fact that Moore et al DEMAND a fee, even very local to their (Artane?) location, is abominable to say the least. For him to use this for the betterment of the hobby of astronomy, in my opinion, is what's damaging to allow him to call his organisation a "club", when it is clearly a business in this regard.

Seanie.