Last Game Permutations & Season Review.

homerjay2005

So, mathematically we could still win the league but before Martin comes in and blasts me for it ( ), no, its not realistic! we are 3 points behind, with one game left. in reality, their 10-1 win over the dodgers, did the damage and they beat us also 2-0 which is another 4 goal swing.

so, as it stands, assuming they were to loose by 2 goals (again, highly unlikely in all fairness), we would need to win by 12-0!we have beaten ravenhill 6-0 2 times before, but they are a far better team now. so, looks like 2nd is our best shot. we could finish 3rd, but thats only if we lose and Oak Tree win, our goal difference is one worse than them so they would finish ahead of us on that, so we need a draw to finish second. that would cap a great season.

some stats with one game left -

We have conceded 22 goals, our best ever record. Each year i have said that if we conceded around 20 goals, then we would have a chance. In our first season in the 10 team league, we conceded 42. thats almost a 50% reduction. Add in the fact that we condeded 10 of those in the 3 games after christmas, it shows how well we have defended as a team.

our 7 clean sheets is the 2nd best in the league.

im pretty sure that 42 goals scored is out highest ever also, Ciaran, Art and Dave have contributed 27 between them. (the scorers list on the site is wrong)

36 points is the most we have ever gotten. out previous highest was this time last year - 28. one of the leagues we played in, was won with 33 .

Some other points about the season, and where we need to improve.

i think, but am not sure, that Dan has played all 17 games, as has Art. Has anybody else not missed games? the majority of the squad only missed 2/3 games each.

we have shown we can play some great stuff, though sometimes too much football.

we need to shoot more, we created a lot of chances in games now also.

we have conceded some silly goals, Coca Cola stands out. we have stopped conceding from corners big time, but we have left in a few set pieces and also throw ins. no more turning you back from the ball and not picking up free men please!

refeering decisions. 3 key games went against us -

3-2 v full irish - the game that has cost us a chance at the league. up 1-0, we then have a blatant goal disallowed from Eddie. they score a similar goal about 2 minutes later and then score another dodgy goal at the end.

2-2 glenwood - another decision wnet against us - last minute penalty not given.

2-2 coca cola - never on earth know why a free was given in the last minute. still, we defended terribly for it, shouldnt have left the shot in from distance.

on the up side, we did have arts hand of god in the 4-2 win v bar real, but i honeslty cant remember the opposition have any complaints in any of the games we won closely.

CM has been a problem all season, we must have had 8 different players in there. and all those, except Derek, do not count CM as their best position. we need at least 2 new players in there this season.

Plus points from the season -

getting in 8 new players, who pretty much turned up to every game. Daryll and Clayton gave us a great option in goals. Keith and Mick nailed down the full back spots straight away, Derek and mark added to the Midfield and then Peter and Ciaran gave us options up front. Getting in new faces doesnt alwasy work out but we needed a massive change and we did it.

consistent back 4 has helped no end, we never had that. keith, Mick, Ed and Dan must have played 12/13 games together at least. Any of the players who played in the games where they missed, also slotted in well.

i will add more later, feel free to add comments.

WeAreShels

I also played every game.:cool:

LeixlipRed

I was at every game though I was injured for first one and didn't get on. And one game were Des didn't play me. I've never forgiven him for this By my reckoning, in 3 full seasons and a bit I've only missed 5 games due to injury/holiday. A modern day hero I am and Ed will no doubt be working on a trophy for me at home

homerjay2005

WeAreShels wrote: »

I also played every game.:cool:

fair play dave, didnt realise that. well done.

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Email from Astro

Hi Lads,

The end of season presentation night will take place next week, details are:

Venue: Alexander Hotel, Fenian Street, Dublin 2
Date: Thursday, March 26th
Time: From 8pm
Entertainment: Race Night in aid of Our Ladys Hospital, Crumlin.

All are welcome.

The full list of winners will be sent out early next week.

Presentations will be made for the following:
League winners
Runners Up
Third Place
Best Defence
Best Goalkeeper
Top Scorer

LeixlipRed

Ah cool. We're guaranteed second now with Oak Tree losing so looks like we'll have a night out afterall!

homerjay2005

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Ah cool. We're guaranteed second now with Oak Tree losing so looks like we'll have a night out afterall!

bar real beat oak tree 4-1:eek::eek::eek::eek:

f*cking hell, they will hardly do the same to glenwood ? a 4-1 win would mean we would only need to win 10-0!!!!!!!!!

ciaran is on 11 goals but the site is wrong, he will go mad if he scores 2 the next nite and gets f8ck all!!!

the last time they played, was 2-2. anybody going to go early the next nite and watch the glenwood game? if they lose, im sure they will be sweating for our one.

LeixlipRed

Oak Tree clearly didn't have a full team. Bar Real were the worst team we played imo. No way Oak Tree would be hammered by them if they had their full strength side out. Glenwood will definitely have every single player down next Tuesday. Plus you say "only 10-0" like that's realistic?

FrankGrimes

Good stuff, session next Thursday so lads?

Feck it, I'm sticking a fiver on Bar Real doing Glenwood 6-1 and us pummeling Ravenhill 8-0 to take the title!

Thanks for the stats and analysis of the season Ed, some very interesting reading.

Agree with all the positive stuff highlighted above - with the injuries I had to watch more from the sideline than I'd have liked but the lovely football we play defo made it easier to watch than previous seasons. We're a proper football team now that don't give an inch at the back and have the players to really use the ball when we get it.

Another thing to point out is that we clearly benefit from being one of the only teams in the league with a manager on the sideline. Despite what we might think out there, person on the sideline getting the full view is best placed to see what's working and what's not and Des has used that well to our advantage.

So with those positives noted we do need to focus on areas for development as that's the only way to keep making improvements.

Fully agree that we need to add 2 specialist (and fit) centre midfielders as that is our problem position, though fair play to all those who stood in to do the job their this season: it's not that things were blatantly bad in there it's just that with specialist fit midfielders we'll get more control and have more of a platform to build on.

The backchat to the refs got better but has regressed recently. We (all of us) need to just accept that the refs are muck and get over it. Even once a season is too often to switch off while either waiting for a whistle or complaining about a decision and we have definitely switched off at least once.

We play lovely football and let the ball do the work most of the time but at times that gets overcomplicated and defences figure out that we rarely play direct so they can push up on us. We need to exploit that space in behind a bit more by either playing direct through balls every now and then or trying to take on or turn a man. That'll keep em guessing and might make them less likely to push up, giving us more space in front of them to play our passing game. At times we're almost reluctant to gamble and take on a man or try something - obviously judgement is needed to only do this in the final third and not when we have spare men screaming for it, but lads should feel encouraged to try things in the final third every so often. That doesn't mean we won't still be focused on passing football, it just offers a bit of variety.

Midfielders need to get into the habit of asking themselves 'where does the striker want this ball played to?' instead of 'where do I want to play it to?' or 'where would I feel comfortable receiving it if I were the striker?'. When a player calls a certain ball it's his responsibility to worry about getting on the end of it - when a striker calls a risky ball it's because he sees an opportunity.

Our defence is generally excellent but for me is still in the habit of sitting too deep when we have a lead, moreso as the game goes on. You just have to look at the amount of times teams have gotten back into games that we were leading (and whether they took advantage of it or not is irrelevant) and the pattern is clear. Yes, we've gotten better at turning it back on once they get back in it, but why not just stay positive in the first place? I'm convinced that the number of goals we've conceded by sitting back far outweighs the number we would have conceded to hatchers or through balls if we had stayed positive. It'd be net neutral at worst and I'm sure we'd all prefer to play our attacking passing game than the keep what you have approach.

The 27 of 42 goals coming from Ciaran, Art and Dave is a great return from them but we do need to have more goal threats across the board. We don't score many from centre mid and I don't believe anyone scored from fullback this season so there is an opportunity there.

This isn't being negative lads - it's a sign of how far this team has come that we can discuss this level of fine tuning and know that we have it in our power to make them happen. You could grade this season as an A minus and look at this thread as our chance to build a plan that gets us to an A+ (and some silverware!) next season.

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homerjay2005 wrote: »

ciaran is on 11 goals but the site is wrong, he will go mad if he scores 2 the next nite and gets f8ck all!!!

I've fixed the stats on the site.

The reason you see Dave down for 8 is because there were 2 Own Goals which came from his crosses, the site doesn't allow an OG to be entered, so I stuck Dave down for them.

The reason you see me down for three is because I took the goals for the Walkover vs Coffin Dodgers.

I could change them to Ciaran I suppose, let him win the Top Scorer competition

FrankGrimes

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Oak Tree clearly didn't have a full team. Bar Real were the worst team we played imo. No way Oak Tree would be hammered by them if they had their full strength side out. Glenwood will definitely have every single player down next Tuesday. Plus you say "only 10-0" like that's realistic?

Think you need to start turning on your realism/sarcasm/humour/harmless slagging detectors when reading Ed's posts in future cos in fairness you take the worst possible interpretation of them almost every time.

LeixlipRed

What can I say Jules, I'm a cynical guy. Won't be changing that anytime soon. Thanks for the input though.

helimachoptor

I would say Jules the reason we sit deep as you say is because the opposition will leave a man pushed up and while you say that could have been neutral in terms of goals conceded, the fact is if the defence pushes up and leaves a man on the edge of the box and the ball is played over/through us and he scores we're going to look like awful plums, maybe if they leave one man up 2 should cover him rather than the 3/4 we have at the moment.

But in saying that as the game goes on there does seem to be quite a big gap between the defence and midfield.

LeixlipRed

helimachoptor wrote: »

I would say Jules the reason we sit deep as you say is because the opposition will leave a man pushed up and while you say that could have been neutral in terms of goals conceded, the fact is if the defence pushes up and leaves a man on the edge of the box and the ball is played over/through us and he scores we're going to look like awful plums, maybe if they leave one man up 2 should cover him rather than the 3/4 we have at the moment.

But in saying that as the game goes on there does seem to be quite a big gap between the defence and midfield.

If 3 or 4 men are covering one man then that leaves 2 or 3 opposition players unmarked. If one man is hanging deep one centre half should mark him. That's my belief anyway. Everyone else should be pushed up to near the half way. The problems with us losing goals late in games (i.e. the whole second half nearly) is a lack of responsibility when it comes to man marking. People get tired and lose concentration and then let their man go more and more often. Cut that out and we'll win the league. In short, fitness is the main thing holding us back in key positions.

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It's nothing other than fitness.

That's the simple raw fact of it.

FrankGrimes

helimachoptor wrote: »

I would say Jules the reason we sit deep as you say is because the opposition will leave a man pushed up and while you say that could have been neutral in terms of goals conceded, the fact is if the defence pushes up and leaves a man on the edge of the box and the ball is played over/through us and he scores we're going to look like awful plums, maybe if they leave one man up 2 should cover him rather than the 3/4 we have at the moment.

But in saying that as the game goes on there does seem to be quite a big gap between the defence and midfield.

I hear ya and agree that it's a little more complicated than a simple decision to push up or not.

I'm not talking about 4 defenders sitting on the halfway line though - I think 15-20 yards further than the current line in the second half (which was about 5 yards outside of our box on Monday) is the right balance. That way if a ball is played through to a hatcher it'll generally have to be in the air and very precise and even if it is our defenders won't be all that far away and will be close to him by the time it lands.

I can still count on one hand the number of times over 5 seasons that we have actually conceded to a blatant hatcher due to us pushing up and 2 of those were in the same game in Columbas.

Your suggestion to leave 2 back instead of 3/4 is probably the right balance. Whatever about a striker hatching costing us every now and then, I don't think I've ever seen a ball over our fullbacks heads being met by a hatching winger. That means wingers are in front of, not behind, the fullbacks. The further back the fullback is then the more space the winger has. If fullback is up with him when winger receives the ball the fullback has a lot better chance than if the winger had space to run into to get momentum before reaching the fullback.

Plus, if the fullbacks are pushed up a bit and tucked in a bit the amount of second-ball they will win is massive and this also reduces the space the central midfielders have to marshal. I think we have ball playing fullbacks capable of using that possession well and also able to track back fast as needed and I really think it'd benefit us more than it'd harm us.

Ultimately though, it all boils down to ethos - are we a team that focuses more on our opportunities to do damage to the opposition or are we a team that wants to limit risks as much as possible? I think we are the former but we start veering to the latter when we have a lead. I also think that though we have a strong defence, our attacking ability and passing football is what can set us apart so we should play to that strength. That's my opinion though and I guess all that really matters is what instruction the manager gives.

homerjay2005

we have also scored alot of late goals, something we never did before. as regards conceding, we have cut down on this by about 50% on late goals, so we are going in the righ direction. last year, there was a stretch of games(8 or 9) where we conceded in the last 5 mins in all of them, not counting in the other games. this year, its only been a few.

our fitness is alot better as we have players now that play regulary.remember lads, its only a 50 minute game. we do seem to run out of steam though in midfield as the game goes on.

Draupnir

Just to throw in my tuppence worth on the season review lads, as a follower of the team now I have to say I have been very, very impressed by the determination and commitment shown by this years squad.

I have to admit that at certain times I was just waiting to come on here on a Wednesday and read about you guys losing badly because only 9 turned up. I based this on the fact that the squad had struggled for numbers in previous seasons, particularly after defeats. The difference this season and the in my opinion, the reason you guys have done so well, is that even after defeats the squad stuck together, came out in numbers and looked to react to the poor results. Well done and it was great to see as someone who is a supporter of the side.

I'd also like to congratulate Des on doing a fantastic job, since day one he has been the most committed person involved in Boardeaux and the biggest fan of the team. He deserves this success as much as anyone but I know he will be thinking mostly about next season now and going one better. I look forward to watching Summer 09 and will be available as always if you guys struggle for numbers and I can make it to dig you out.

Enjoy the night out next Thursday lads, well done again.

FrankGrimes

Des wrote: »

It's nothing other than fitness.

That's the simple raw fact of it.

I agree that fitness may be the primary reason behind it but don't believe that it's the only reason.

I think that if you take the mindset to press the middle of the park (by pushing up fullbacks a good bit and centre-halves a bit) and accepting the risk of being prone to an excellent through ball, you will win more breaking ball and so be in possession more (less tiring than chasing) and will also mean the game is played in a tighter space most of the time. That means centre mids have less of a sphere to cover, meaning they will tire less. For the few times a well-placed through ball goes by them, yes the defence will have a sprint to make but it really doesn't happen that often (particularly with the zip of the pitch causing through balls to run long) and I do believe they'd actually have less running to do this way.

Yes our centre mids haven't been of the highest fitness levels but the structure of how we play is currently giving them an unrealistic amount of ground to cover - the gap between defence and strikers is 60 yards at times and they would need to be superhuman to cover it all. Increased fitness and specialist midfielders can do only so much - if we don't spread the responsibility of pressuring space a bit more evenly (by pushing up a bit), the midfield will keep be overworked and overrun regardless of who they are.

LeixlipRed

homerjay2005 wrote: »

our fitness is alot better as we have players now that play regulary.remember lads, its only a 50 minute game. we do seem to run out of steam though in midfield as the game goes on.

Not just in midfield Ed. As games go everyone seems to slip concentration wise. But Jules makes a good point, we should be worried more about annihilating teams through our forward play (which let's be honest is the best in the league by a country mile) rather than containing the opposition. I'd always advocate the full backs pushing up even late into the game. We need to be more adventurous in that respect I feel. But, as Des reiterated, it's purely fitness that keeps us from achieving more. The starting XI we have now, fully fit, would have walked this league.

LeixlipRed

FrankGrimes wrote: »

Yes our centre mids haven't been of the highest fitness levels but the structure of how we play is currently giving them an unrealistic amount of ground to cover - the gap between defence and strikers is 60 yards at times and they would need to be superhuman to cover it all. Increased fitness and specialist midfielders can do only so much - if we don't spread the responsibility of pressuring space a bit more evenly (by pushing up a bit), the midfield will keep be overworked and overrun regardless of who they are.

Very good point. In every game I played in midfield this season (12 or 13 maybe) there was always an increase in workload in second half due to defence sitting back. There strikers and wingers then use that extra space to drift infield or drop back and you end up having 2 v 3/4 in there. It happens every week. Defence also need to come with these men when they drift. I've said this to Dan towards the end of the season and, to be fair, he was trying to sort it.

FrankGrimes

homerjay2005 wrote: »

we have also scored alot of late goals, something we never did before. as regards conceding, we have cut down on this by about 50% on late goals, so we are going in the righ direction. last year, there was a stretch of games(8 or 9) where we conceded in the last 5 mins in all of them, not counting in the other games. this year, its only been a few.

Ha, I just knew you'd whip out some stats on this Ed (you secret Statto! ). That's why I said 'regardless of whether they take advantage of it or not'. Focusing on the stats here (and what I also highlighted as our increased ability to respond to these comebacks with ones of our own) is like a poker player going all-in with 72o under the gun with a raise and a reraise before him. It don't matter one bit if the flop comes 772 - that guy is making bad decisions and will be punished for it in the long run.

Despite the statistics and our own comebacks, I think we'd all agree that we have been letting teams back into games too often instead of pushing on and killing them off.

I agree that fitness is better (still room for improvement though) which is why I am pointing out what I believe to be the systematic issue that will mean we get overrun in the middle regardless of fitness levels - 2 men cannot marshal such a big space and others need to press up to squeeze that space a bit.

helimachoptor

Would agree with the fitness, as Martin says we have a fit enough starting 11 but it's something we could all improve on.

Even if we have a run of a few cup games that will help us also and aswell with the lads playing grass and other lads playing astro too.

Iago

FrankGrimes wrote: »

is like a poker player going all-in with 72o under the gun with a raise and a reraise before him. It don't matter one bit if the flop comes 772 - that guy is making bad decisions and will be punished for it in the long run.

Well that depends, but it's a little off-topic for here

As a team unit you have come on leaps and bounds over the last few years and like this year I fully expect you'll be in the shake-up for the title next season. I think what makes you different from most of the teams in the league is the desire to win. You can tell from reading the forums that everybody wants to win every little battle all over the pitch and get's pi$$ed off when that doesn't happen.

Most of the teams in the league don't have the same attitude and desire, they're there to get a game of ball in and while winning is always preferable it's not top of the list...I find that pretty bizarre to be honest. I've had a number of run ins with lads on the Ravenhill team that just don't care enough whether they win or lose. there's no urgency, no gut wrench when they come off a pitch having lost a game. They're laughing and joking and it bugs the life out of me. For my part whether it's playing representative football, LSL, or even playing down the local park with my son I want to win every time. You guys have that as a team and that will eventually bring league titles along with it, so just don't lose it!

Looking forward to playing against you next week, I'll do you a deal, let me score 5 so that I get another top scorer award and I'll persuade the defence to let in 15 or so can't say fairer than that

edit: and Ciaran can't have any of them, no more than 2 goals per person, terms & conditions apply.

homerjay2005

Iago wrote: »

Looking forward to playing against you next week, I'll do you a deal, let me score 5 so that I get another top scorer award and I'll persuade the defence to let in 15 or so can't say fairer than that

edit: and Ciaran can't have any of them, no more than 2 goals per person, terms & conditions apply.

all i can say is, if glenwood lose, it will be very interesting game against you!

you going to stay with ravenhill next season or you going to play with us?

LeixlipRed

Iago wrote: »

Most of the teams in the league don't have the same attitude and desire, they're there to get a game of ball in and while winning is always preferable it's not top of the list...I find that pretty bizarre to be honest. I've had a number of run ins with lads on the Ravenhill team that just don't care enough whether they win or lose. there's no urgency, no gut wrench when they come off a pitch having lost a game. They're laughing and joking and it bugs the life out of me. For my part whether it's playing representative football, LSL, or even playing down the local park with my son I want to win every time. You guys have that as a team and that will eventually bring league titles along with it, so just don't lose it!

.

Great point Gary. I can't stand it when you come off the pitch after losing and someone is having a laugh or a joke. If you wanna laugh and joke, stay at home. We have plenty of ultra-competitive players and this definitely gives us an edge. It also means we don't always agree with each other but definitely an advantage.

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Started a couple of threads about the place about us getting second.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055515569

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055515566

Iago

homerjay2005 wrote: »

you going to stay with ravenhill next season or you going to play with us?

I'm not sure I'd get a game at this stage

Who knows, the admins might be working out some expensive transfer to bring me across only for Des to take offence at his authority being undermined. That would see me relegated to the bench (if I even make the squad) before being sent back to Ravenhill half-way through the season. Ironically I'll pop up with a hat-trick in the last game to deny you the title and Des will inevitably get the sack

In all seriousness though, I don't know whether I will be playing for Ravenhill in the summer or not at this stage. They're a great bunch of lads, but I think I'm a little too intense for their taste. I'll get next week out of the way and have a think about it then, I've ruffled some feathers but I've scored too many goals for them to kick me out on my ear (i think)

Either way it would be unfair to leave you lads hanging one way or the other, and you need a team of lads that are fully committed from Day 1 so I won't be part of the boards squad for the summer season.

Xavi6

Like Keith I just wanted to offer my congratulations to all involved in what has been a fantastic season.

I read the match threads every week and would consider myself something of a 'supporter', albeit from afar. The committment from the lads and Des appears to be top notch and the results reflect that, and every one of you should be proud in where you have taken the team in such a short space of time.

Looks like I'll be home for Summer 2010 so I'll be itching to jump aboard the bandwagon!

Congratulations again, and enjoy the celebrations.

LeixlipRed

By summer 2010, we'll have switched to weekend football and be planning an assault on the LSL

helimachoptor

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Great point Gary. I can't stand it when you come off the pitch after losing and someone is having a laugh or a joke. If you wanna laugh and joke, stay at home. We have plenty of ultra-competitive players and this definitely gives us an edge. It also means we don't always agree with each other but definitely an advantage.

would agree with both of you on this. And as my gf can testify too when we lose there's no talking to me, after coca cola I was a bear with a sore head and that's what we need. Going out to win is what everyone on the team wants. I have never seen a player on the team decide to stop doing their job if we were a couple of goals up as they'll know they got lifted out of it. Everyone has a real hunger to win and it can only benefit us.

Arguing with each other is fine aslong as it doesn't degenerate into handbags at then paces:D, its added motivation and everyone does it.

One thing I would point out is the support from the sideline through each game is always top notch, having played for some sides where the following has happened

Gavin Strachan wrote:

I have never forgotten the attitude of a former team-mate - like me, a regular on the bench - during an FA Cup tie. Such was his frustration, he actually wanted the other team to win!
That in itself was bad enough but when the opposition had a chance that flashed wide of the post, he stood up ready to cheer in anticipation of the ball hitting the back of the net! Fortunately for him it was only me that noticed. All I could do was shake my head and hope that I would not end up so consumed by bitterness.

Its a credit that the lads on the bench continually support the 11 players.