BOI shares steadily rising... Worth a punt?

valoren

80s Child wrote: »

I want to buy €1000 worth of BOI shares. What exactly do I have to do?

I realise that this is probably an idiotic post, but I just want to know where I can get set up with minimal fees so I can start making my money work for me.

I'm also aware that €1000 isn't a lot, but it is what I'm prepared to sink in at this moment in time.

Edit: Just found one of the other threads. Ignore

Have a look at the following calculator.
http://oak.ucc.nau.edu/del/stockcalcs/sizer.aspx

Maximum Cost i.e. your capital (€1,000)

Risk is how much you're willing to lose if the trade goes wrong.
For this example I'll assume you're comfortable to lose €250 for example.

Buy/Sell Price is the quoted price = 0.36c

Stop Price is where the price you would sell out at if the trade goes awry to protect against losses. We'll assume you have a long time frame so we'll say 40% i.e. if the price drops 40% from 36 cent (22 cent) then just sell the shares at a loss.

So the calculator says to buy 1786 shares (so €642 to invest)
If the share price fell to 22 cent then you sell and you're left with €392, losing your risked €250.

This is a good calculator for money management.

If you're comfortable with risking the lot then just enter risk as 1000. This will get you 2778 shares and you can just sit on them long term without even thinking about stop losses etc etc.

80s Child

valoren wrote: »

Have a look at the following calculator.
http://oak.ucc.nau.edu/del/stockcalcs/sizer.aspx

Maximum Cost i.e. your capital (€1,000)

Risk is how much you're willing to lose if the trade goes wrong.
For this example I'll assume you're comfortable to lose €250 for example.

Buy/Sell Price is the quoted price = 0.36c

Stop Price is where the price you would sell out at if the trade goes awry to protect against losses. We'll assume you have a long time frame so we'll say 40% i.e. if the price drops 40% from 36 cent (22 cent) then just sell the shares at a loss.

So the calculator says to buy 1786 shares (so €642 to invest)
If the share price fell to 22 cent then you sell and you're left with €392, losing your risked €250.

This is a good calculator for money management.

If you're comfortable with risking the lot then just enter risk as 1000. This will get you 2778 shares and you can just sit on them long term without even thinking about stop losses etc etc.

Cheers for that. I'd pretty much just leave them there so any short term fluctuations wouldn't really affect me.

daheff

valoren wrote: »

Have a look at the following calculator.
http://oak.ucc.nau.edu/del/stockcalcs/sizer.aspx

Maximum Cost i.e. your capital (€1,000)

Risk is how much you're willing to lose if the trade goes wrong.
For this example I'll assume you're comfortable to lose €250 for example.

Buy/Sell Price is the quoted price = 0.36c

Stop Price is where the price you would sell out at if the trade goes awry to protect against losses. We'll assume you have a long time frame so we'll say 40% i.e. if the price drops 40% from 36 cent (22 cent) then just sell the shares at a loss.

So the calculator says to buy 1786 shares (so €642 to invest)
If the share price fell to 22 cent then you sell and you're left with €392, losing your risked €250.

This is a good calculator for money management.

If you're comfortable with risking the lot then just enter risk as 1000. This will get you 2778 shares and you can just sit on them long term without even thinking about stop losses etc etc.

I might be a bit slow on the uptake here...but if he has 1K to invest and is willing to lose 250EUR, then should he not invest 1K with a stop loss at 27c?

1000x 0.36c = 2777 shares, value 1000EUR
If his shareholding is valued at 750EUR - 750/2777 =27c a share, then this is where he should sell out? Otherwise he is not maximising his investment


Or am I missing something?

daheff

Dickie10 wrote: »

Hi just wondering if anyone has any advice for me, i bought BOI shares in april 2013 for 0.16 cent, i have 21,300 shares. what would most people do.? are they going to rise anymore than 36 cent?

Not sure we can advise people on the forum.

But heres my take.

I got in at around 16.5c a couple of years back. From what I've seen of the share price since then, its gone up but seems to have a sticky ceiling of around 38.5/39c (i got out in end july around 39c).

I also see a floor of around 25c. If you see any charts over the last few months you can see that the SP has gone up a couple of times to the ceiling and dropped off. and the bottom its gone to is around 25. I see it doing that multiple times. SO when price was up around 38 I sold my full holding.

A couple of weeks later I was able to get back in at around 33c (smaller holding though).

I'm seeing a similar trend in the price now and I'm thinking of selling out again soon (price seems to have resistance above 36.5 at the minute).

BUT- next year if dividends are reinstated I'd expect price to break 40c.

Amirani

I'd agree with that.

There's limited upside before prefs are repaid and dividends are back on the table.

palmtrees

Is the redemption of 2009 preference shares likely to affect those who bought BOI shares in the last few months?

lucky john

nothing to with share holders really. just positive in house book keeping. the redemption will save the business €130million per year, so should be good for the share price (hopefully).

keith_d99

Dropped below 30c today .... With possibility of Dividends being re-instated ... good time to buy??

Sonnenblumen

keith_d99 wrote: »

Dropped below 30c today .... With possibility of Dividends being re-instated ... good time to buy??

I'd say you've missed the boat, should have bought < 10p. Hardly any significant movement in SP and I expect the divis to be miniscule < 1%.

IMO, there's plenty of bigger and better fish to fry. Choose from stable SP with 4% - 8% divi or smaller divi but more volatile SP ? Let your choice be your oyster :cool:

ABC101

Hi People,

Any idea what is happening with BoI?

Is it the uncertainty of

1) China, issues of slow down / growth?
2) Irish General Election in 3 weeks?
3) Disposition of the markets towards Finance stocks in general?
4) Lack of institutional investors?
5) Short selling going on big time?
6) Brexit?
7) All of the above?


I sold Barclays stock last year.... at 2.82... now down to 1.71 approx, Lloyds not doing well either.

But BoI seems very much oversold.

Thoughts anybody?

lucky john

All of the above and more. At the present time everything and everyone has gone negative. BoI shouldn't take it personally. It a time for bears and until this phase passes its better to sit it out. Pointless trying to call the bottom of any stock as all bets are off and no support is safe. You can't trust any market lift either because the swings from day to day can be exceptionally big. Stocks are moving 3..6..10..even 20% in a session.

I don't think BoI can announce anything in a couple of week time that will change sentiment. I think results will be in line with expectations and maybe a little better with reasonable outlook and a dividend on the way. Most analysts have the at 40c plus but what do they know.

ABC101

lucky john wrote: »

All of the above and more. At the present time everything and everyone has gone negative. BoI shouldn't take it personally. It a time for bears and until this phase passes its better to sit it out. Pointless trying to call the bottom of any stock as all bets are off and no support is safe. You can't trust any market lift either because the swings from day to day can be exceptionally big. Stocks are moving 3..6..10..even 20% in a session.

I don't think BoI can announce anything in a couple of week time that will change sentiment. I think results will be in line with expectations and maybe a little better with reasonable outlook and a dividend on the way. Most analysts have the at 40c plus but what do they know.

Analysts are experts at revising downwards their previous target price on a stock.

The best explanation I have come up with (this afternoon on seeking alpha) is there was a drop in the dollar valuation yesterday, which caused Oil and Gold to rise, because of this rise various stocks rose also.

Whether that is relevant to European financials I don't know. Really strange things going on atm.

Nidot

It really is strange what happened to BOI today.

A drop of 8% in a single day.

It's almost crash worthy.

I would give my right arm to know what the major investors are thinking right now.

It's dropped below what Wilbur Ross sold at previously:

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2014/0610/622756-bank-of-ireland-ross/

lucky john

"I would give my right arm to know what the major investors are thinking right now."

"F**k....RUNNNNNNNN" maybe?????

lucky john

"I would give my right arm to know what the major investors are thinking right now."

"F**k....RUNNNNNNNN" maybe?????

Sonnenblumen

lucky john wrote: »

"I would give my right arm to know what the major investors are thinking right now."

"F**k....RUNNNNNNNN" maybe?????

Buying opps - more scope for making money

ABC101

Its a sea of RED across the board. Barclays dropped 5% for example. Anybody see Eurobank??????? Dropped 29% today alone.

Looking at Greek Financial Stocks... there seems to be a correlation with Bank of Ireland. I am now wondering if investors are kind of classing Ireland as being in the same boat as Greece? With the GE coming up too and political instability on the near horizon?

Spain still has not formed a Govt, not sure what is happening in Portugal, but their bond yields have risen of late.

I think BOI does not yet have institutional investors yet, which is probably why the SP has dropped so much so quickly.

As for buying opportunities.... beware catching a falling knife! If SF get a majority Govt.... I think the ISEQ will drop to 2009 levels.

I'm not going into the ISEQ until mid March, and if they means I miss some upside.... so be it.

Long term I think the Brexit risk will pass, BoI will do well.... provided nothing else will crop up!!

ABC101

Its a sea of RED across the board. Barclays dropped 5% for example. Anybody see Eurobank??????? Dropped 29% today alone.

Looking at Greek Financial Stocks... there seems to be a correlation with Bank of Ireland. I am now wondering if investors are kind of classing Ireland as being in the same boat as Greece? With the GE coming up too and political instability on the near horizon?

Spain still has not formed a Govt, not sure what is happening in Portugal, but their bond yields have risen of late.

I think BOI does not yet have institutional investors yet, which is probably why the SP has dropped so much so quickly.

As for buying opportunities.... beware catching a falling knife! If SF get a majority Govt.... I think the ISEQ will drop to 2009 levels.

I'm not going into the ISEQ until mid March, and if they means I miss some upside.... so be it.

Long term I think the Brexit risk will pass, BoI will do well.... provided nothing else will crop up!!

Dickie10

imin for about 20-25 years anyway so dont mind, hopefully i might catch a another boom/bust cycle. id be fairly confdent of it actually!

Unknown Soldier

What are the chances of BOI doing what AIB and Permo did? Dividing by 100 or 250 to revalue their shares?

Could BOI do this too?

So 10,000 shares @.xx become 100 shares @x.xx?

They seem to be able to do this on a whim as far as I can tell!

Is there a mechanism that stops BOI doing the above?

quadrifoglio verde

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

What are the chances of BOI doing what AIB and Permo did? Dividing by 100 or 250 to revalue their shares?

Could BOI do this too?

So 10,000 shares @.xx become 100 shares @x.xx?

They seem to be able to do this on a whim as far as I can tell!

Is there a mechanism that stops BOI doing the above?

That is what they'll be doing
Your % holding won't change, in fact it should give your shareholding more stability and open to less market manipulation

Sonnenblumen

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

What are the chances of BOI doing what AIB and Permo did? Dividing by 100 or 250 to revalue their shares?

Could BOI do this too?

So 10,000 shares @.xx become 100 shares @x.xx?

They seem to be able to do this on a whim as far as I can tell!

Is there a mechanism that stops BOI doing the above?

there is nothing unusual about consolidation and often it leads to more value (more demand) for shares etc which supports a stronger price and that is ultimately good news for shareholders. I've never seen or heard of any consolidation 'done on a whim' ie without notice etc? Unlike the other struggling Irish banks, BoI is independent of Gov interest and therefore in a much stronger position, and the sooner they consolidate and get the SP out of 'penny share' status the better!

Unknown Soldier

Thanks Sonnenblume and quadrifoglio verde for the replies.

But I'm a tad confused! Say you had 20,000 AIB @ .07 = 1,400 euro.

20,000 divided by 250 = 80 and the new price was 4.30 or something like that.
So you now have shares worth 344 euro.

If BOI did similar, how would that be a good thing? For someone with 20,000 @ .25

Sorry if this is a ridiculous post! I'm only here to learn, thanks!

AlmightyCushion

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

Thanks Sonnenblume and quadrifoglio verde for the replies.

But I'm a tad confused! Say you had 20,000 AIB @ .07 = 1,400 euro.

20,000 divided by 250 = 80 and the new price was 4.30 or something like that.
So you now have shares worth 344 euro.

If BOI did similar, how would that be a good thing? For someone with 20,000 @ .25

Sorry if this is a ridiculous post! I'm only here to learn, thanks!

That won't happen. The share price of a company is determined by it's total value (known as market cap) divided by the amount of shares issued. When doing a consolidation the market value remains the same it's just the amount of shares that change. So the value of your shares won't change just the amount of shares you hold.

For example, say we have a company with a market cap of €1,000. It has 1000 shares issued at €1 each. You own 100 shares in this company worth €100. Let's say this company decides to do a 10 to 1 consolidation, meaning for every 10 shares you used to have you now only own 1 after the consolidation. The company will now have only 100 total shares issued instead of 1,000. However, the company will still be worth €1,000 so each new share will now be worth €10. You used to own 100 shares but now you own only 10 but the value of those 10 shares will still be worth €100.

The example above is very simplistic to make the maths easier but it's more or less how it works. If we took your example where your 20,000 shares were worth €1,400 before consolidation and only 344 after consolidation then the companies total market cap would do the same (everyone's share are being affected not just yours) so the companies market cap would be slashed as well. The company would worth x amount one second, then more or less a quarter of that a second later once the consolidation happened. That just wouldn't happen. A consolidation may cause the companies market cap to increase or decrease depending on if the market view it as a good or bad thing but it wouldn't cause that sort of increase/decrease. In your example above the new share price wouldn't be pulled out of thin air. The new share price would be set at .07 * 250. so the new share price would be about €17.50 not €4.30.

Think of it this way. If your company pays your salary monthly and then decided to change it to being paid weekly. The total amount you earn over a year will stay the same, they wouldn't and couldn't just start paying you a fraction of your yearly salary all of a sudden.

otterj

Hard to make money off bank shares for years to some, just too volatile

Hollister11

I'm considering throwing a grand in TO BOI in a few months. For a long term prospective.

Waiting to see effects of

Trump
Brexit
And a possible AIB IPO

Any opinion

Francie Barrett

Hollister11 wrote: »

I'm considering throwing a grand in TO BOI in a few months. For a long term prospective.

Waiting to see effects of

Trump
Brexit
And a possible AIB IPO

Any opinion

All that is noise. If you think BOI is a good investment, then buy it and hold.

Chancer3001

A grand isnt a massive amount of money either way tbh.

Even if the marlet goes amazing anr share price doubles.. .i mean ya still only get 2 grand..

If a grand is all ya jave to spare ifld recommend just keeping it

evolving_doors

Hollister11 wrote: »

I'm considering throwing a grand in TO BOI in a few months. For a long term prospective.

Waiting to see effects of

Trump
Brexit
And a possible AIB IPO

Any opinion

Thinking back to the OP and the thread price 8 years ago, the same question keeps getting asked, but BOI is still trundling along the bottom of the sea bed at the same price give or take a few cent every so often.


10yrs.jpg

But.... given the fun that thread has given, I'd like to give my short term ignorant analysis as Hollister11's quote on Trump got me musing.

The Trump factor:
He's on the prowl for US multinationals and creating market uncertainty.... so maybe the Pharma and Tech sector are a bit too volatile for investing.
So it's back to the bricks and mortar.
Oil and Gas are now good according to trump (and his advisors vis a vis russiaian interests). Climate change has gone away so renewables might go on the backburner for a while.
Construction seems to be on the up given his desire to 'rebuild america'.
So maybe one of the other 'reliables' that the market will turn to will be the banks.

Therefore....Just going on a very reduced lazy analysis I undertook we can see a definite:D rise in BOI's shares a few days after Trump got in.


BANK OF IRELAND 3mnths.jpg

So for a few cent a share it might be worth a punt in the long term. If you had 1k to spare (loose!) and you wanted to get yer toes wet and follow the market then it might be a good share just to have in your portfolio (if you can find a few more low cost shares).. maybe €300 worth !
How much would a share costing £0.247 have to rise to beat the banks deposit rate of 3%?.. not much I say.

Grecco

Dow Jones just went above 20000 for the first time ever. Will it hit 30000 under the trump presidency?
As for BOI, it looks seriously undervalued compared to all other Banks in the sector. The banking sector itself looks like the most undervalued sector out there at the moment.
Expect BOI to hit 30p soon, and go a lot higher