How dangerous are motorbikes?

antiskeptic

mighty mechanic wrote: »

you have been a biker through need as a courier.

I could have become all sorts. I just lived bikes so why not courier.

the fact that you would choose a car over a bike with all the traffic on the M50 just epitomizes the type of biker are. This fact alone disqualifies you from advising anyone about biking imo.

You obviously don't ride the M50 these days. Bar for the odd day when things get completely snarled the way is virtually clear (and getting better). A bit of backlog at Ballymount going either way is about the cut of it. I don't have to get in/out of gear nor park up the bike at either end which about evens things out time wise

Pull up behind a lorry just before the cameras and you pay the same as bikes too!! (Kidding: I just tried it once for the craic - turns out they miss 1/3 of the time anyway)

Now I'm off to ride my bike just for the hell of it. You do the internet a favour and step away from the computer. I can hear your pipe and slippers calling

Mind the black ice

salysol

antiskeptic wrote: »

I see them too late from time to time for whatever reason. But end up escaping for one reason or another. Those are the ones that shake me up - the ones where I didn't see it coming.




Indeed.





For example?




I happen to represent a view that the "real biker" section of the biking community is going to dislike however it's presented precisely because those views are seen as coming from the same quarter as the other side: cagers/taxis/government/insurance companies.

That doesn't cause me a moments worry given that I'm not addressing members of that fraternity but folk who are considering entering biking.

i can relate to you ,but i still can't see the sense in frightening people,or giving them uneeded pressure,i'm a firm believer we all have a use by date on our ass.but none of us want to know the date !!,
if you knew what was going to happen to you say tomorrow ,and it wasn't good would you still go on as normal,ive been riding for thirty seven years ,had my spills ,but i've been fortunate, some others are not ,but you live and learn from your mistakes.when riding you make allowances for the unexpected,its a daily occurence,but you deal with it ,thats the risk you take ,in all walks of life.

antiskeptic

fj1200 wrote: »

You've riden many fj1200's with stage two dynojet kit and hand made stainless four into one?

What are you trying to do? Turn it into a gixer?


Tell you what FJ, whilst the honour of throwing the last handbag should go to me (you having thrown the first one), I'll give you the honour and not say a word.


It's a 1.4 Escort, asthmatic from the day it was conceived, brakes like it's got drums all round, and keeps on passing it's NCT for reasons unclear to me. Have at it!!

antiskeptic

salysol wrote: »

i can relate to you ,but i still can't see the sense in frightening people,or giving them uneeded pressure,i'm a firm believer we all have a use by date on our ass.but none of us want to know the date !!

I'm a firm believer in our expiry date being printed on our arses. I'm also a firm believer that we have a part to play in what date gets stamped there - our Creator taking account of our wishes to an extent.

If logic and rational won't deflect the passion that often lies at the heart of a persons decision to take up motorcycling then there's a thread in this forum aimed at sharing all the safety tips we can muster with those who are like we were.

Why not add some of your 37 years experience to the mix. I'm sure you've got a gem or more.

hedgeh0g

A sticky on bikers avoiding accidents / tips would be a good idea.

Gravel is not your friend. Watch out for gravel build ups near traffic islands and at the edge of round abouts. I lost control of my first moto on a roundabout in Crete at two miles an hour on a round about. My first moto journey was wearing T shirt / shorts / shades on a DT 125 with cliff drops all over the place on the way to a fab beach. Had no moto license either! (was young and foolish / have full license and ins now) The thrill of that. In Dublin Ive lost control on gravel twice near traffic islands but just skidded all over the place. Gas to see onlookers with their jaws dropped, you know it was a close one then.

pedestrians walking out from behind high vehicles like vans and busses.
Always presume ninja pedestrians will stealthily step out from behind vehicles and every few months one will.
My GF floored just such an idiot in black clothing last week. Witnesses said it was totally the J walkers fault.


Road debris - My biggest fear. Ive never driven over a hub cap but did step on one when locked one night on the way home. I nearly did the splits, then recovered, then same again. Was very funny at the time. I know someone who hit a brick on a road and threw the keys away afterwards. I removed half of an exhaust from a round about last week, Imagine that little surprise coming out from under a car. Another reason not to tail gate.

You will smell the Diesel oil spills one second before hitting the road. Its near impossible to spot oil spills.


biker chics - Wimmins love bikes. If you dont want more sex dont get a motor bike. On my first night on my first owned moto (Dr200) in the city a random girl jumped on the back of the bike on Dame St at the llights and said "lets go!" It was a sign :-) I did a lot of riding that summer

Which leads me to protection. You could be paying for an accident for 18 years! Always wear it!

Google motor bike accidents and there lots of tips. Most accidents happen at junctions I hear.

Esel

mighty mechanic wrote: »

I've forgotten more than most people know but black ice is black ice. No amount of training will help you in that situation.

The point is that one can learn to predict the probability and location of black ice, and ride accordingly. Maybe not 'training', but definitely 'learning'.

faceman

This thread is now boring. Im going for a spin on my bike!

Tigger

some things for the op

1 biking is dangerous so is sex with strangers and most of the other thrills young men enjoy, as you get older prioritys change but enebn tho my back hurts because of bikes right now i wouldn't have changed a thimng, its a lifestyle and you won't regret joining

2 i was a dispatcher yes i nearly died and yes i saw all sorts of things but i rode safe in all weathers and never had an accident at work, the tricks are observation, control and roadcraft you can learn them in one of two ways the less painfull way is lessons and loads of them

3 a well ridden fj is a very progressive bike its also comfy and super reliable its the rider not the bike that makes the diff, ride what you like when you like

af_thefragile

Whoa!
This thread has manage to spiral wayy out and away...!


Thanks to everyone who gave me proper advise. It was very helpful and i learnt a lot about biking from this thread!

I appreciate all of antiskpetic's posts too as its always good to get views from both the sides. Apart from all the "bikes are amazing!!" stuff, antiskeptic's posts have a very realistic and logical approach to them which is good as its a bit of a reality check back down from the fairytale cloud people tend to drift off on.
But then, as antiskeptic himself did recognise, logic doesn't need to direct life and all decisions. If we were all driven by logic and health and safety then the world would have made no progress. Progress comes from human desire to take on the unknown and tackle the risks while at it. Without uncertainty and some degree of risks, humans would make no progress and life would be meaningless.
And once you've managed to tackle the risks and fought off the demons, you would have gained a new sense of knowledge and wisdom in true growth of the mind and spirit.................. =p


As i've stated before, i have decided to get the bike. Its still a long way to go for me. Both before and after getting the bike. But now that i've decided, i've set the direction to travel in. So thanks everyone who helped.
And not very thanks to the guys at biker.ie who made a balls out of my thread!!

Thoie

OP, I'm not a biker, but one game you can play while you're still getting the bus between now and summer is "spot the hazard".

Instead of reading/listening to music, spend your remaining bus journeys staring out the window trying to guess "Is that pedestrian about to step out?", "Where's the gravel?", "How many drivers stopped in traffic are keeping an eye out behind them?".

Try and guess which cars are about to randomly change lane, and under which conditions. Figure out where the tight left corners are that make truck drivers swing right to make the left turn. Watch the speed signs change, and figure out why. Watch cylists/bikers doing something stupid and remind yourself that that's something you don't want to do.

If you want to make it a really fun game, include the passenger next to you, and insist he plays along too. Well, maybe you could leave that bit out.

af_thefragile

Thoie wrote: »

OP, I'm not a biker, but one game you can play while you're still getting the bus between now and summer is "spot the hazard".

Instead of reading/listening to music, spend your remaining bus journeys staring out the window trying to guess "Is that pedestrian about to step out?", "Where's the gravel?", "How many drivers stopped in traffic are keeping an eye out behind them?".

Try and guess which cars are about to randomly change lane, and under which conditions. Figure out where the tight left corners are that make truck drivers swing right to make the left turn. Watch the speed signs change, and figure out why. Watch cylists/bikers doing something stupid and remind yourself that that's something you don't want to do.

If you want to make it a really fun game, include the passenger next to you, and insist he plays along too. Well, maybe you could leave that bit out.

Acutally you know what, i've already started doing that!
Now everytime i'm on the bus or in a car, i'm always looking around on the streets and checking for potential hazards and such. So much that yesterday i was driving around in my friends car and i was constantly telling him things like stay to the left of the lane, give your indicator before you turn etc..!
Also keep looking out for motorcyclists and how they ride. Their position on the road, the speed at which they filter through the traffic etc. It is quite fun doing that!!

I'm also thinking of getting my pedal bike into town... Just gotta find a way to sneak in my BMX into the train. So i could ride it to the train station, get a lift in the train till Heuston and then ride it from there to my college. Only problem is the trains don't allow bikes in so i've gotta find a way to sneak one in... And even then i'll start riding it more around where i live just to get used to riding on the road and such... Should be good practice of some sort to get used to riding a motorcycle!

pajodublin

If i may i would like to hijack this thread for a second....
I know he may read this as he is a boards user but here it goes
I've been a "biker" on and off for about 7 years
Had 2 spills, one was pretty bad where a car in oncoming traffic tried to turn in front of me and i hit the back door of his car. Luckily i wasnt too seriously hurt only having a dislocated shoulder and now 4 years later being told i have a trapped nerve in my shoulder which hurts from time to time
The other spill wasnt too bad, driver coming from my right, pulls out onto the road and didnt see me, i hit the car, go over the bonnet where the bike proceeds to go up in the air and land on me hot exhaust first (Good gear boys and girls what saved me from 2nd degree burns) All i had was a huge bruise on my inner thigh where the bike had shifted across me as i hit the car.

Now the issue i would like to highlight.... My Girlfriends brother is 18. I have only recently begun biking again after a long absence after my 2nd spill. He's become more and more fascinated at the idea of biking that now he wants to get a moped. He's been working out insurance tax price of a bike, what bike to get etc.
Ive only 1 problem
I am actually worried about him. Ive seen the dangers, ive had the spills. I just hope my influence of bikes on him is not gonna be the thing that gets him killed or even seriously injured as i couldnt live with myself for it.

For some reason its eating at me.....

seanybiker

mighty mechanic wrote: »

If you're hesitant already and thinking about the dangers before you even get out there then maybe you should give it a miss imo

Are ya mad. Everybody else is saying be aware of the dangers. Thats all the young fella is doing. I think that shows more maturity that the majority of people starting off normally have. I think op is been very cautious and rightly so before he gets on a bike.
Op you already know bikes can be dangerous. Get one and enjoy yourself. Anyone who is on the road now can give you good advise not just these people who think that just cos they done 50 years on the road makes em special .
Just go for it.

Simeadrach

I'm only ridin for a wee while myself but I'll say this.

Take all the advice, good and bad and put it in a nice little spot in the back of your head and dont forget any of it. Experience/knowledge when ridin a bike is key.

Then get your arse on a bike give it a shot!, you'll know within the first few minutes wether its your thing or not.



"You start the game with a full pot o’ luck and an empty pot o’ experience...
The object is to fill the pot of experience before you empty the pot of luck."

Luckycharm

Jeez this thread nearly making me leave my bike at home. I am commuting in Dublin about 8 years- my advice would be start on a scooter before tackling anything more powerful. I only recently switched to a 125cc scooter. Everything else has pretty much been covered.

nc19

antiskeptic wrote: »

Mind the black ice

Cheers

you take care when your out too incase of snipers!!!

'Walking point in Vietnam' WTF

Sad!!

Get a life. I'm outie

nc19

seanybiker wrote: »

Are ya mad. Everybody else is saying be aware of the dangers. Thats all the young fella is doing. I think that shows more maturity that the majority of people starting off normally have. I think op is been very cautious and rightly so before he gets on a bike.
Op you already know bikes can be dangerous. Get one and enjoy yourself. Anyone who is on the road now can give you good advise not just these people who think that just cos they done 50 years on the road makes em special .
Just go for it.

Yes but this amount of procrastinating before he even knows what being on a bike out on the roed is like will make him a possible danger on the road imo. You know the type I mean, the biker that doesn't even see you overtaking them cos they've got a certain amount of tunnel vision. What else aren't they seeing

nc19

Simeadrach wrote: »

I'm only ridin for a wee while myself but I'll say this.

Take all the advice, good and bad and put it in a nice little spot in the back of your head and dont forget any of it. Experience/knowledge when ridin a bike is key.

Then get your arse on a bike give it a shot!, you'll know within the first few minutes wether its your thing or not.



"You start the game with a full pot o’ luck and an empty pot o’ experience...
The object is to fill the pot of experience before you empty the pot of luck."

well said. get out and see for yourself. thats what i'm saying. good man

galwaytt

antiskeptic wrote: »

25 years of 365 riding in the bag and ...

10) .....a bicycle will get you there quicker - you don't have to stop at lights on a pushbike.

...tells me you've got this far without knowing the Rules of the Road ??

And you're giving advice ?? Gimmeabreak.........

antiskeptic

galwaytt wrote: »

...tells me you've got this far without knowing the Rules of the Road ??

I never was much of a one for the letter of the law to be honest. In this rather lax country of hours I never found the need for it. There ain't nowt so understanding and reasonable as an Irish copper. England and Holland - a different matter altogether..

And you're giving advice ?? Gimmeabreak.........

What, apart from sanctimony, is the basis of your objection to my giving advice?

The_Joker

How dangerous are motorbikes?

Well here's my two cents worth.
I started driving bikes at 16 (some 20 odd years ago now, god that seems like a lifetime ago!) anyway I started on a good ol nifty fifty got lessons and such and had the right gear new helmet proper jacket etc.
I progressed over 10 years to a 100cc a 250cc and jumped to a Honda CB500 then a Honda CB900, (now I wasn't a bike nut or anything or a speed freak, I just liked bikes, I had cars as well).
I went onto get a CBX 1200 then a Yamaha v-Max 1200cc unrestricted, then a Goldwing 1800 (which I kept as my pride and joy), at the ripe ol age of 26 I bought a Suzuki 1400 Cavalcade with all the trimmings, I moved to the UK where I worked in Darlington (around Newcastle) I worked with the Police as a traffic cop and drove a BMW K1100 LT everyday.
I came back to Ireland on a visit in Feb '99, I took my 1400 out for a spin to go and visit a few friends, at 23:30 I turned right at a clear junction onto a main road, I remember nothing at all from that moment until about 6 weeks later when I woke up in the Mater hospital after coming out of intensive care, I was hit from behind by a drunk driver in a pickup truck, I suffered collapsed lungs broken legs shoulders arms crushed ribcage and a severed spinal cord which left me in a wheelchair for the rest of my days.
In all the years I drove bikes I never had one single accident except of course for the last one.
I had all sorts of bike training civilian and with the police force, so to answer the question how dangerous are motorbikes?
Well in my opinion they are not dangerous themselves (you don’t have very much protection) if you drive them as they should be driven you are less likely to have an accident, but of course in my case it was the guy who hit me made the motorbike dangerous not the rider.
All the advice in the world will only help you drive better but won’t leave you immune to other road users.
Think ahead when you are driving, you can speed but it gives you less of a chance of thinking ahead and more of a chance of having an accident.

furryone

I bike it everyday from lucan to everywhere.I ride a maxiscooter and i've had two accidents both of which i walked away from thank god.All the advice thats been written here is good advice albeit from the first replier but the best advice and the best summation of you query has got to be from the joker.
Bike are not dangerous it's just that everything around them can be and that can include you.If you are sensible in your approach to biking you should be okay and my advice to you when you are biking is always check your blindspots cause they really are lifesavers.Happy Biking.:D

davty10

antiskeptic wrote: »

25 years of 365 riding in the bag and this is what I'd have to say.


1) That 25 years of experience has not only revealed motorcycling (especially town commuting motorcycling) to be the equivilent of walking point duty in Vietnam, it's also taught me how to maximise the chances of survival whilst walking point duty in Vietnam.

2) Without that 25 years (or at least a good chunk of it) under your belt you're like a lamb to the slaughter. The dangers are so numerous, so subtle , so ever present - you're literally walking across a minefield blindfold. Even if your a sensible type who knows that bikes need to be treated with respect you're only a whisker ahead of the youth who thinks he can nail it open and head for the horizon. You simply can't see the danger when you've no experience and the only true way you'll learn about it is through near misses and/or accidents.

Which presents you with the very best reason to stay clear of motorcycles. The dilemma which is impossible to resolve.

"You can't ensure a reasonable chance of healthy survival without gaining experience. You can't gain the experience necessary to ensure healty survival without first running unacceptable risks".

The usual way this dilemma is overcome is to be young, stupid and fortunate enough to survive long enough. Many don't survive it. Many more are permanently and painfully disabled by it.


3) In order to be injured in a car crash you have be very unlucky or crash at reasonably high speed. Every incident on a motorcycle lends itself to potentially horrific injuries or death. A driver opens his door to empty his ashtray in stopped traffic, your driving gingerly by at 10mph, get knocked off by him ... and your legs are run over by a truck coming the opposite way. The world abounds with motorcyclists who haven't been killed or paralysed from the neck down. They've just smashed limbs and incurred permanent nerve damage and can look forward to those injuries debilitating their lives as they get older.

4) Rider training won't do it for you. It's better than nothing but it just can't cut the risk to acceptable level.

5) In skilled hands the right bike for the job can be rendered a reasonably safe beast. Wet, greasy cold roads - the like which you'd see a lot of if town commuting is your game - calls for the very best of skills and the greatest levels of alertness. If you'd balk at the notion of riding around at town speeds in the wet with no brakes - for such is the level of predictive skill required to ride safely in the wet - then commuting motorcycling isn't for you

6) I commuted Bray/Finglas/Bray for 7 years. Every few of days you'd see a bent moped/motorcycle leaning against a railing with debris from the recent collision littering the buslane.

7) Bike gear won't protect you from moderate to serious injury. You stop road rash and cracking your skull open .. is all. There's plenty more to injure that just your skin and your skull.

8) The chances are high that if you start out riding a bike you'll fall-off/crash - I don't know anyone who hasn't. The chances are also high that you'll get away with mild-moderate injury in those crashes. However, there is nothing separating getting a minor injury from getting a quality-of-life-destroying injury... except luck (or God whether you believe in him or not). You asked what folks most serious injury was? The front wheel of my motorcycle locked up at 80mph flinging me to the deck where I slid along - on my side of the road - for a couple of hundred yards. I knocked a 2 euro sized piece of flesh from one kneecap which only required a few stitches. A lad down the road from me T-boned a car pulling out of a side road at around 30mph and is spending the rest of his life in a wheel chair.

9) Biking isn't "fun". It's a serious game where the enjoyment comes from recognising the risk, managing the risk and commanding the terrain your in. It's exhilerating in that sense. But not fun as such - your too busy concentrating to have fun. If it is being considered as fun then you're likely in serious danger.

10) If your bike commute is a town one taking (you say) a half an hour then a bicycle will get you there quicker - you don't have to stop at lights on a pushbike. You'll save time not having to struggle in and out of all that heavy gear either.

Don't get me wrong. I've enjoyed bikes tremendously but knowing what I know about the risks facing the inexperienced, I wouldn't advise my worst enemy to take it up.

Well said Anti! I am new to biking and took my bike from Vancouver, BC to Santa Cruz, California and back last summer, which was fantastic. However this was for a vacation on dry roads and mostly in areas of low density traffic , except for the cities of course. My bike has sat in my garage since then as I would not even dream of using it to ride to work, for me getting up on a monday morning , throwing on biking gear and heading out into rush hour traffic would be my worse nightmare. All it takes is one second of lapse of concentration from ANOTHER ROAD USER to nail you, factor in that you are more than likely tired and your mind could be elsewhere, the margin for error broadens!

I love being out on my bike on a sunny sunday afternoon crusing on a back country road, but to do this on a daily basis to/from work, its only a matter of time before something happens and its in the lap of the gods, how bad that is..

My advice would be a no to use a bike to commute on a daily basis, but then again thats just my opinion.

Also the size of the engine in the bike is not the issue, just because you are on a 125 or 250cc bike, people seem to feel this is a safety blanket, you can kill yourself at 10 miles/hour just as quick from a smaller bike as a 600cc sports bike.

Esel

furryone wrote: »

.....my advice to you when you are biking is always check your blindspots cause they really are lifesavers.

Not being pedantic, but the blindspots are 'lifetakers' :eek:. The 'lifesaver' is the quick look over your shoulder to check your blindspot that you should do before executing a manoeuvre. :cool:

furryone

esel wrote: »

Not being pedantic, but the blindspots are 'lifetakers' :eek:. The 'lifesaver' is the quick look over your shoulder to check your blindspot that you should do before executing a manoeuvre. :cool:

what i meant was checking your blindspots is lifesaving.jesus... some people!

seanybiker

The_Joker wrote: »

I came back to Ireland on a visit in Feb '99, I took my 1400 out for a spin to go and visit a few friends, at 23:30 I turned right at a clear junction onto a main road, I remember nothing at all from that moment until about 6 weeks later when I woke up in the Mater hospital after coming out of intensive care, I was hit from behind by a drunk driver in a pickup truck, I suffered collapsed lungs broken legs shoulders arms crushed ribcage and a severed spinal cord which left me in a wheelchair for the rest of my days.
In all the years I drove bikes I never had one single accident except of course for the last one.

Fook me man. Thats a horrible thing to happen. Me man who cracked off ya is probably still driving around. The prick.

The_Joker

seanybiker wrote: »

Fook me man. Thats a horrible thing to happen. Me man who cracked off ya is probably still driving around. The prick.

That's really the worst part of it, this fella is still driving around somewhere, no one knows if he will or has done it again.
Ah well at least I'm alive n not kickin ), I could be a lot worse for sure.

seanybiker

The_Joker wrote: »

That's really the worst part of it, this fella is still driving around somewhere, no one knows if he will or has done it again.
Ah well at least I'm alive n not kickin ), I could be a lot worse for sure.

Lol @ not kicking.

Thats it yeah. Your still alive and Im sure people dont block your way in the pub.
Do ya miss biking much?

Ya could get a trike with all hand controls.

The_Joker

I built a trike about 6 years ago from the engine of what was left of the 1400 Cavalcade it was shaft drive so I no trouble connecting it to a VW rear axle, got an auto box installed with reverse, it's the dogs dangly bits, I must post up a few pics of it.
I miss biking in a way but the trike still gives me a lot of the same freedom except weaving around traffic
As for blocking me in a pub lol that's no problem I just roll over toes when people don't move
At the end of the day you have to have a sense of humour about it all hence my username.
Lifes too short might as well make the most of it eh
Jebus I sound like a right ol Philosopher!

trad

Sorry to hear about your troubles Joker. Like you I was a traffic cop but here in Dublin. I cannot over emphasise the need for proper training in order to survive motorcycling. I did a standard motorcycle course of 4 weeks of 40 hours instruction per week (yes 160 hours) and that was just to be let loose on a 500cc bike. You didn't throw your leg over a bike until thursday of the first week and didn't venture onto a publin road until the second week.

I then had to do an advance course of 2 weeks and was subject to ongoing constant critique for other more experienced riders which was necessary as we were trusting each other with our lives.

The attrition rate was high. In 1987 we got a new fleet of 24 CBX750 police specials and we managed to crash 13 of them in 8 weeks. Why? despite all our training these bikes were totally different to anything we rode before. All our previous bikes were standard road bikes with the police bit bolted on and were mostly pigs to ride. The CBX's had everyrhing frame mounted and as we steered the fairing turned with the frame not the handlebars as we were used to so we tended to oversteer, front wheel steps put and you know the rest.

Out of all the guys I worked with one in paralised, one was run over and crushed by a truck (almost fatal),most of us have scars from gravel rash or getting pins and plates inserted and more soft tissue injuries than you could shake a stick at. A lot of the prangs could be described as happening within the norm of "commuting", no high speed involved, some at very low speed. I once fell off and took two other bikes with me in the Phoenix Park between the Islandbridge gate and the Wellington Monument. Sweeping left hand bend, wet road with leaves falling, adverce camber and the daddy of them all, the tar strip up the middle of the road. I found out afterwards that an Instructor broke his ribs in the same spot, which eased my pain.

So is motorcycling dangerous? Yes. Is motorcycling fun ? Yes
but be careful out there.

Drive and survive