How dangerous are motorbikes?

antiskeptic

Deleted User wrote: »

Jesus how do you manage to get on your bike at all Antiskeptic?

It's made possible because I've 25 years experience equipping me to deal with the danger.

Af,bikes can be bloody dangerous as pointed out by Antiskeptic. He's made a lot of valid points there but fookin hell he's pessimistic. Get lessons before buying one and you will find out whether biking is for you or not.

It isn't pessimism, it's realism. The facts are that someone starting out in motorcycling is effectively blind to the myriad of dangers and is a poor state to protect themselves against that danger when it (surely) comes their way. As such, they are lambs to the slaughter - if slaughter is what occurs. If it doesn't then it will be down to good fortune by and large.

It's a roulette game is what it is. Until such time as you get enough experience to begin to ensure it plays out in the way you want.


If someone wants to step onto a bike knowing that above is the way it is then I wish them the best. Let that decision be made in light of the facts however - not under the illusion that protective gear is going to alter anything of substance when it comes to serious injury.

Would I, knowing what I know now, chose to start a career in motorcycling? Especially commuting motorcycling? Not in a million years!

af_thefragile

Cheers antiskeptic.

I totally get where you're coming from and this is exactly what a lot of my friends tell me too and this is the thing that was giving me second thoughts about going ahead with my bike plans.

But then i guess i just needed a second opinion to just push me back over the edge into getting a bike as it was something i was always planing on anyway. I knew one day or another i was gonna get a bike so it was just the case of is now the right time for it?...

I do understand the risks involve. A crash could result in anywhere from a minor bruise to a life altering disability and possibly even death. And i know its not worth it to waste away your life over a bike ride. But i think its a more of a case of balancing out the rewards over the risks. We do crazy things in life for the pleasure we gain out of them even when a slight twist of fate could result in the worst and maybe a bit of the pleasure comes from the risks and dangers involved while most of it comes from the sense of achievement. Like you get when you've made it to the top of a mountain or your first skydive or something. What's worth your life without these sense of achievements and pleasures? Now different people have different values for what they can get these feelings from but i am someone who likes to live on the edge (while not being stupid at the same time.

So i guess i could take the risk of riding it. I already do quite a few things that involve risks like rock climbing, bmx and i plan on doing things that are wayy more risky like skydiving, mountaineering and ocean sailing. So no one really stops me from going ahead with those things then why should i hold back from getting a bike which is much less risky than the other things i do and plan on doing someday anyway.



Well so, the bottom line is i am gonna go ahead with getting a bike as i always knew i was gonna get one sooner or later so why not now as i feel now its a bit of a necessity too than a luxury!

pajodublin

af_thefragile wrote: »

and i plan on doing things that are wayy more risky like skydiving, mountaineering and ocean sailing.

I laughed at this,
How many people do you know that die doing these activities?
Riding a bike, especially in traffic strewn Dublin, is a hell of lot more risky...

EvilMonkey

pajodublin wrote: »

I laughed at this,
How many people do you know that die doing these activities?
Riding a bike, especially in traffic strewn Dublin, is a hell of lot more risky...

do you have stats to back this up?
how many bikers died in Dublin traffic last year?

af_thefragile

pajodublin wrote: »

I laughed at this,
How many people do you know that die doing these activities?
Riding a bike, especially in traffic strewn Dublin, is a hell of lot more risky...

I know they've all become pretty safe but the risk is still pretty high in those things. Like in biking you could have an accident where you could get lightly bruised or break a bone or get disabled. Of all the people who i've known who've driven bikes, the worst accident was they broke a couple bones which a couple of weeks/months later, they were all good to go. Now i've seen bad accidents on tv and stuff but i've also seen pretty bad car crashes and bicycle crashes too.
If something goes wrong with say skydiving or up on a mountain or in the middle of the ocean, you're in big trouble!! Its not a case of getting away with a light bruise or a broken bone... when things go wrong, they really go wrong!
And for one statistic i know, one in every 10 people who sets out to make it to the top of the everest doesn't make it back down.

pajodublin

EvilMonkey wrote: »

do you have stats to back this up?
how many bikers died in Dublin traffic last year?

Is that info available
i can find statistics for Ireland but not Dublin specifically
only for 2005 can i find for Dublin specifically
13 Motorcycle deaths in Dublin 2005
as far as i can see theres never been a skydiving death in ireland.. i may be wrong...

pajodublin

af_thefragile wrote: »

I know they've all become pretty safe but the risk is still pretty high in those things. Like in biking you could have an accident where you could get lightly bruised or break a bone or get disabled. Of all the people who i've known who've driven bikes, the worst accident was they broke a couple bones which a couple of weeks/months later, they were all good to go. Now i've seen bad accidents on tv and stuff but i've also seen pretty bad car crashes and bicycle crashes too.
If something goes wrong with say skydiving or up on a mountain or in the middle of the ocean, you're in big trouble!! Its not a case of getting away with a light bruise or a broken bone... when things go wrong, they really go wrong!
And for one statistic i know, one in every 10 people who sets out to make it to the top of the everest doesn't make it back down.

sorry mate didnt mean to sound condescending, maybe im readin too many antiseptiks posts

af_thefragile

^Cheers...
Also if you consider the ratio of the people who ride bikes to who skydive, you'll find out one is just as risky as the other.
Anyway... Guess i've gone along for a good while now to justify and convince myself to get that red Ducati i've always been dreaming of..
So i think its time to lay this thread to rest as i've finally made up my mind about it.

EvilMonkey

pajodublin wrote: »

Is that info available
i can find statistics for Ireland but not Dublin specifically
only for 2005 can i find for Dublin specifically
13 Motorcycle deaths in Dublin 2005
as far as i can see theres never been a skydiving death in ireland.. i may be wrong...

Probably not, i had a look couldn't find anything.(i think i saw something before, i cant find it) I'm not saying your wrong or anything but i would like to see some figures on it. As af_thefragile said theirs probably more bikers commuting in Dublin than skydivers. Commuting is dangerous but allot of motorcycle accidents are single vehicle collisions.

fj1200

@ af_thefragile

I see you've decided to go for it and get a bike. Been riding bikes 26 years and enjoyed every minute of it. Best advice I can give is to assume that nobody, and I mean nobody!, can see you on the road. Buy the best gear you can afford especially helmet wise. Keep the bike in good nick, tryes etc. Headlamp on always. Everyone has minor spills but round town it's hard to beat. Be safe.

nc19

@antispastic

you're not cut out for biking imo. I get the impression that you would prefer your commute to involve no other traffic. I've had 2 accidents in 10 years, both of which I took as lesson learnt. Biking for me would not be the same WITHOUT the dangers. They are what make it interesting;)
You drove in a straight line through the worlds biggest carpark for 7 years and its tainted your impartial opinion imo.


@af thefragile

as was said to you on biker.ie and on here, get the bike, get the best gear you can afford and get out on the road and start learning. Join some rookie ride outs and watch other people at it but most of all enjoy. If you're hesitant already and thinking about the dangers before you even get out there then maybe you should give it a miss imo












I'm a biker now and for ever. I love my bike:D

nc19

fj1200 wrote: »

@ af_thefragile

I see you've decided to go for it and get a bike. Been riding bikes 26 years and enjoyed every minute of it. Best advice I can give is to assume that nobody, and I mean nobody!, can see you on the road. Buy the best gear you can afford especially helmet wise. Keep the bike in good nick, tryes etc. Headlamp on always. Everyone has minor spills but round town it's hard to beat. Be safe.

+1

couldn't agree more

af_thefragile

^Cheers,

I've decided i'm gonna go for it.
I was 100% convinced about getting it before my friend screwed with my head as he was almost 100% certain if i got one, i was gonna eventually crash and do some serious damage to myself. So i more like wanted to prove him wrong and well find that little nudge to push me over the edge and finally get it as i had been putting off the idea for quite a while now...

And also the fact that bikers have a good community and respect for eachother quite appeals to me too. Something you don't find among car drivers.

Well, so yeah... Now i can't wait to get driving on my first bike and then soon get my first Ducati!!
I've even got a picture of the Ducati Monster as the wall paper on my laptop as it keeps motivating me to get it!!

And also thanks for the tips... I'll keep them in mind but i think it'll all mostly come from experience...

doc crock

antiskeptic wrote: »

25 years of 365 riding in the bag and this is what I'd have to say.

10) If your bike commute is a town one taking (you say) a half an hour then a bicycle will get you there quicker - you don't have to stop at lights on a pushbike. You'll save time not having to struggle in and out of all that heavy gear either.

.

i dont really agree with any of your points as a very experienced motorcyclist myself , i have never crashed or been hit in 12 years , however who said a cyclist does not have to stop at lights? , more than once i have witnessed bad accidents caused by cyclists whizzing through red lights, 2 years ago i saw a girl of no more than 8 years old creamed in this way , it was very nasty. I suggest you stop preaching as you clearly have no idea about safety and i doubt you should be on a motorcycle yourself .

At af_thefragile,

its time you made your own mind up lad , get some training from a good motorcycle school , you will know very quickly if biking is for you , then either go for it or walk away knowing you gave it a go !

best regards

doc crock

af_thefragile wrote: »

^Cheers,

I've decided i'm gonna go for it.
I was 100% convinced about getting it before my friend screwed with my head as he was almost 100% certain if i got one, i was gonna eventually crash and do some serious damage to myself. So i more like wanted to prove him wrong and well find that little nudge to push me over the edge and finally get it as i had been putting off the idea for quite a while now...

And also the fact that bikers have a good community and respect for eachother quite appeals to me too. Something you don't find among car drivers.

Well, so yeah... Now i can't wait to get driving on my first bike and then soon get my first Ducati!!
I've even got a picture of the Ducati Monster as the wall paper on my laptop as it keeps motivating me to get it!!

And also thanks for the tips... I'll keep them in mind but i think it'll all mostly come from experience...

Just noticed this after i posted, good man you have made the right decision. Good idea on the monster lovely bike to learn on , ps go for a 695 its a cracker:D

af_thefragile

Yeah, love the monster. Mostly cuz it has a low seat so it'ld be cool for me as i'm not very tall... And also its a Ducati and looks sexy in red!!!

I'm thinking of just getting a new 696. It'll come with warranty and the lot and might get it for slightly less due to the recession too. Also like the look of the new 696 compared to the old 695.
But i'll get the Duke after getting some cheap starter bike first to get used to on. I would hate dropping a shiny new 696. Although you can easily change the covers on its tank if you damage it or get bored of the color!! But then i doubt anyone would insure me on a new 696 for my 1st bike!!

doc crock

call aon and ask about getting a grade 2 qualification , you get full licience rates and a hefty discount if you do the training, makes getting a sweet first bike a real option!

af_thefragile

^Hmm, i'll check that out...
I tried the online quote on aon's website and it gave me a quote of 4.5k with the aon grade 3 assessment.
I wouldn't give me a quote without the assessment. But i think it'ld get a more realistic quote on the phone...

Though even if i'ld be able to get a cheap insurance, i won't be able to afford it for a while. I plan on working to save up the money for it. So right now i'll only be able to afford a cheap starter bike first. I'll be looking for something i could get for like 2-3k with insurance. Then i can practice on it, do those assessment tests and once i've managed to save up the 8ish grand for the new Duke, i'll sell the starter bike and get the duke!! So hopefully sometime towards the end of the year, i should be able to look forward towards my first Duke!!

doc crock

well good luck with it , and be safe!

keithm1

antiskeptic wrote: »

25 years of 365 riding in the bag and this is what I'd have to say.


1) That 25 years of experience has not only revealed motorcycling (especially town commuting motorcycling) to be the equivilent of walking point duty in Vietnam, it's also taught me how to maximise the chances of survival whilst walking point duty in Vietnam.

2) Without that 25 years (or at least a good chunk of it) under your belt you're like a lamb to the slaughter. The dangers are so numerous, so subtle , so ever present - you're literally walking across a minefield blindfold. Even if your a sensible type who knows that bikes need to be treated with respect you're only a whisker ahead of the youth who thinks he can nail it open and head for the horizon. You simply can't see the danger when you've no experience and the only true way you'll learn about it is through near misses and/or accidents.

Which presents you with the very best reason to stay clear of motorcycles. The dilemma which is impossible to resolve.

"You can't ensure a reasonable chance of healthy survival without gaining experience. You can't gain the experience necessary to ensure healty survival without first running unacceptable risks".

The usual way this dilemma is overcome is to be young, stupid and fortunate enough to survive long enough. Many don't survive it. Many more are permanently and painfully disabled by it.


3) In order to be injured in a car crash you have be very unlucky or crash at reasonably high speed. Every incident on a motorcycle lends itself to potentially horrific injuries or death. A driver opens his door to empty his ashtray in stopped traffic, your driving gingerly by at 10mph, get knocked off by him ... and your legs are run over by a truck coming the opposite way. The world abounds with motorcyclists who haven't been killed or paralysed from the neck down. They've just smashed limbs and incurred permanent nerve damage and can look forward to those injuries debilitating their lives as they get older.

4) Rider training won't do it for you. It's better than nothing but it just can't cut the risk to acceptable level.

5) In skilled hands the right bike for the job can be rendered a reasonably safe beast. Wet, greasy cold roads - the like which you'd see a lot of if town commuting is your game - calls for the very best of skills and the greatest levels of alertness. If you'd balk at the notion of riding around at town speeds in the wet with no brakes - for such is the level of predictive skill required to ride safely in the wet - then commuting motorcycling isn't for you

6) I commuted Bray/Finglas/Bray for 7 years. Every few of days you'd see a bent moped/motorcycle leaning against a railing with debris from the recent collision littering the buslane.

7) Bike gear won't protect you from moderate to serious injury. You stop road rash and cracking your skull open .. is all. There's plenty more to injure that just your skin and your skull.

8) The chances are high that if you start out riding a bike you'll fall-off/crash - I don't know anyone who hasn't. The chances are also high that you'll get away with mild-moderate injury in those crashes. However, there is nothing separating getting a minor injury from getting a quality-of-life-destroying injury... except luck (or God whether you believe in him or not). You asked what folks most serious injury was? The front wheel of my motorcycle locked up at 80mph flinging me to the deck where I slid along - on my side of the road - for a couple of hundred yards. I knocked a 2 euro sized piece of flesh from one kneecap which only required a few stitches. A lad down the road from me T-boned a car pulling out of a side road at around 30mph and is spending the rest of his life in a wheel chair.

9) Biking isn't "fun". It's a serious game where the enjoyment comes from recognising the risk, managing the risk and commanding the terrain your in. It's exhilerating in that sense. But not fun as such - your too busy concentrating to have fun. If it is being considered as fun then you're likely in serious danger.

10) If your bike commute is a town one taking (you say) a half an hour then a bicycle will get you there quicker - you don't have to stop at lights on a pushbike. You'll save time not having to struggle in and out of all that heavy gear either.

Don't get me wrong. I've enjoyed bikes tremendously but knowing what I know about the risks facing the inexperienced, I wouldn't advise my worst enemy to take it up.

jesus dude
are you gay byrnes older brother
as someone else said and i agree
the likes of yourself and gay byrne were not really cut out for biking
may be we should discourage young lads from playing football and crossing the road

cycocycle

The best tip I can give after 15 years is to assume that you are invisible to all other road users and pedestrians. If you accept this and ride accordingly you will minimise the danger. You can never totally eliminate the danger but I wouldnt want to. Biking is one of the most fun things you can do and when the bug bites it bites deep. Dont be discouraged and ride safe.

gsxr1

If you like bikes go get one.

Don't listen to antispastic . For goodness sake I have never read so much sh88te in my whole 33 years 365.

Young lads will tend to have spills but so do the older guys .

You will learn how to stay up right with a bit of savy and experience. You tend to get very sharp very quick.

Not everyone falls. I never till my tenth year and that was gravel.

There is a Police training book in easons . Cant remember the name of it. I think its the Blue Book. I used it on my first year and most of the techniques stuck. Was a long time ago but its still being reissued

You are entering into a world of great fun and a fantastic social scene.

Tracks Days . Ride outs . and touring holidays. Even commuting.

Its all good. There are some great forum get togethers every week

You will find yourself taking the longway home . I enjoyed the heavy traffic out of Dublin to Leixlip every day.

Take your time. Take your lessons and make your own mind up on biking. You wont be disappointed.

View Profile

Have to agree with the past few posts.

I've been riding for 7 years. From 18 years of age on a 75cc til recently on a 1200. Rode everyday, all day. Did trips from Dublin to Mayo & back regularly not to mention my daily commutes around Dublin City!

Don't mind antispastic and his pessimistic viewpoint.

Biking has been my greatest passion and something that I hope to enjoy for the rest of my life!

Interceptor

I'll give up air before I give up biking.

If you are afraid to ride a bike, stay at home as you are a danger to yourself and everyone else - stick to what you know best.

If you are aware of the risks, get proper training and drive with due care and attention you'll be fine. My 74 yr old dad has just taken up biking and he says you are all pussies.

'cptr

wally_the_biker

antiskeptic wrote: »

25 years of 365 riding in the bag and this is what I'd have to say.


1) That 25 years of experience has not only revealed motorcycling (especially town commuting motorcycling) to be the equivilent of walking point duty in Vietnam, it's also taught me how to maximise the chances of survival whilst walking point duty in Vietnam.

2) Without that 25 years (or at least a good chunk of it) under your belt you're like a lamb to the slaughter. The dangers are so numerous, so subtle , so ever present - you're literally walking across a minefield blindfold. Even if your a sensible type who knows that bikes need to be treated with respect you're only a whisker ahead of the youth who thinks he can nail it open and head for the horizon. You simply can't see the danger when you've no experience and the only true way you'll learn about it is through near misses and/or accidents.

Which presents you with the very best reason to stay clear of motorcycles. The dilemma which is impossible to resolve.

"You can't ensure a reasonable chance of healthy survival without gaining experience. You can't gain the experience necessary to ensure healty survival without first running unacceptable risks".

The usual way this dilemma is overcome is to be young, stupid and fortunate enough to survive long enough. Many don't survive it. Many more are permanently and painfully disabled by it.


3) In order to be injured in a car crash you have be very unlucky or crash at reasonably high speed. Every incident on a motorcycle lends itself to potentially horrific injuries or death. A driver opens his door to empty his ashtray in stopped traffic, your driving gingerly by at 10mph, get knocked off by him ... and your legs are run over by a truck coming the opposite way. The world abounds with motorcyclists who haven't been killed or paralysed from the neck down. They've just smashed limbs and incurred permanent nerve damage and can look forward to those injuries debilitating their lives as they get older.

4) Rider training won't do it for you. It's better than nothing but it just can't cut the risk to acceptable level.

5) In skilled hands the right bike for the job can be rendered a reasonably safe beast. Wet, greasy cold roads - the like which you'd see a lot of if town commuting is your game - calls for the very best of skills and the greatest levels of alertness. If you'd balk at the notion of riding around at town speeds in the wet with no brakes - for such is the level of predictive skill required to ride safely in the wet - then commuting motorcycling isn't for you

6) I commuted Bray/Finglas/Bray for 7 years. Every few of days you'd see a bent moped/motorcycle leaning against a railing with debris from the recent collision littering the buslane.

7) Bike gear won't protect you from moderate to serious injury. You stop road rash and cracking your skull open .. is all. There's plenty more to injure that just your skin and your skull.

8) The chances are high that if you start out riding a bike you'll fall-off/crash - I don't know anyone who hasn't. The chances are also high that you'll get away with mild-moderate injury in those crashes. However, there is nothing separating getting a minor injury from getting a quality-of-life-destroying injury... except luck (or God whether you believe in him or not). You asked what folks most serious injury was? The front wheel of my motorcycle locked up at 80mph flinging me to the deck where I slid along - on my side of the road - for a couple of hundred yards. I knocked a 2 euro sized piece of flesh from one kneecap which only required a few stitches. A lad down the road from me T-boned a car pulling out of a side road at around 30mph and is spending the rest of his life in a wheel chair.

9) Biking isn't "fun". It's a serious game where the enjoyment comes from recognising the risk, managing the risk and commanding the terrain your in. It's exhilerating in that sense. But not fun as such - your too busy concentrating to have fun. If it is being considered as fun then you're likely in serious danger.

10) If your bike commute is a town one taking (you say) a half an hour then a bicycle will get you there quicker - you don't have to stop at lights on a pushbike. You'll save time not having to struggle in and out of all that heavy gear either.

Don't get me wrong. I've enjoyed bikes tremendously but knowing what I know about the risks facing the inexperienced, I wouldn't advise my worst enemy to take it up.

Your a bit over the top there lad... I would say after 25 years you have learnt very little. Do ya have a push bike..

Esel

gsxr1 wrote: »

There is a Police training book in easons . Cant remember the name of it. I think its the Blue Book. I used it on my first year and most of the techniques stuck. Was a long time ago but its still being reissued

Roadcraft - absolutely recommended. Just be sure to get the bike version - there is one for cars as well (which is also brilliant).

gsxr1

esel wrote: »

Roadcraft - absolutely recommended. Just be sure to get the bike version - there is one for cars as well (which is also brilliant).

That's the one. Cant believe I forgot the name. My father has a first addition.
Its very very old . From the time when cops first began bike training ..




It has some very technical reading in it. I picked out the main points and used what I could. Worth the 10 pound I paid

Esel

gsxr1 wrote: »

That's the one. Cant believe I forgot the name. My father has a first addition.
Its very very old . From the time when cops first began bike training ..

It has some very technical reading in it. I picked out the main points and used what I could. Worth the 10 pound I paid

Just to clarify - both editions of Roadcraft are regularly revised and kept up to date.

ps I'd say that 1st Edition might be worth a few bob!

just_

OK, I was reading a thread on biker.ie tonight about this thread, so decided to have a read. antiskeptic some of what you say is correct, but I found I was substituting car for bike a lot of the time. What it boils down to is awareness, as I see now that af_thefragile is going for a bike, just be aware af_thefragile.

If you get it (nice to see the man has money in these strapped times) use the M4 before the back roads, for the first few weeks, live life as a cager, instead of filtering pretend your in a cage, sit in the line of traffic, see what cages get up to - a bit of history - I grew up in Dublin, rode a bicycle everywhere, but if I was still in Dublin (now further out the M4 corridor than u), you wouldn't see me on one. A motorbike at it's lowest level will keep with cage drivers in the city and I would find that more comforting than a bicycle.

Anyway I digress, when filtering, after you have been a "cage driver" for a few weeks, just remember the following - 2 cage drivers side by side are easier to filter through than a cage with no one on the outside or inside for the simple reason they don't normally turn in on one another - most cage drivers seem resigned to the traffic and stick to the lane there in, BUT if they think the other lane is moving faster, don't put it past them to change and thats where the motorcyclist can get caught out, some even think that putting on an indicator is an automatic right to change lanes and that there side mirrors are for giving them a better view of themselves than the road behind.

Anyway, if you get the bike, just remember your body is a lot softer than a cages metal and that your the odd one out on the roads. Drive defensively and you should drive safely - the Ducati can be your dream once the experience is learned and even then, with all it's lethal power, should still be treated in traffic like the 125/250 you start off with.

Good luck with your adventures in biking land

smoc

af_thefragile wrote: »

I decided a while ago that its the time for me to beat the traffic and take things under my control!
I decided over the coming summer, i'm gonna work, get biking lessons and then by winter i should have enough money to get a bike and start riding it into college instead of spending an hour in bus everyday. Actually next year i'll have to be going to a different place for college studies and for that, if i was taking the bus, i'ld have to take 2 buses to get there and it'ld atleast take me 90mins. Time i really can't afford to waste on a boring and monotonous bus journey. Hence, i'ld get my bike and get there in 30mins ish while feel good about the whole process...!

So it all looked amazing and fine till i told my friends about my plans and they were all like "its too dangerous", "its too expensive", "its not a good thing to do in Ireland where the roads are wet all the time and the drivers aren't the best", "even if you're an amazing driver someone else is gonna knock you over and its really not worth the risk".

And all this got me to reconsider my plans. Is biking really that dangerous that you will inevitably end up with broken bones and incapable of having kids? And am i better off getting a car instead getting caught up in Dublin rush hour traffic and paying parking charges rather than risking my life saddled up on an engine with two wheels...??

I'ld kinda appreciate some proper advice here cuz i do have a serious thing for bikes (especially red Ducatis) and i'm really really seriously considering getting into biking but at the same time i don't think i'm too keen on spending the rest of my life on a wheelchair or something...
So could you guys give me your opinions on how dangerous biking really is and if the whole "you'll inevitably crash and get seriously injured" a blown up myth or is it quite true... And maybe if you could also mention what your worst biking crash was... just as a bonus, that'll be super!! :pac:

Thanks!

Hey dude,

I've been biking for nearly 7 years now since I was 16. I do it because I love it number one but I used to do it for 3 years going to college. The first year was on the bus like yourself. Nothing beats it. You'll need bike training no doubt. Most of your training will be reading others. About 8-10 lessons will be more than enough to get you started at least. You can pick up a 125cc for nothing these days and the petrol costs on a 125cc are amazing. About 90mpg.

I've fallen off 3 times myself but each time I got back onto the bike and drove off. - touch 'wood'. I remember everyone saying all that dangerous crack to me but to be honest I feel safer on a bike than I do a car when I'm the driver. You cant see everything with a car. On a bike you've full control and 100% vision and can escape alot of accidents where a tight vehicle is best. The only crash i've ever had was in a car and it would not have happened if I was on my bike and I know that for a fact.

I've driven all over europe and Ireland defo has the worst drivers and roads and no its not good in that respect but you'll learn alot from biker training. At the very least I would say learn how to drive a bike firstly. Then take a few lessons and decide from there. You can always rent or borrow a bike before you commit yourself.

Good luck with it anyway. Its a no brainer if you ask me but then again I'm actually attracted to dangerous sports. Plus my last girlfriend liked it