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How dangerous are motorbikes?
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af_thefragile wrote: »Yeah, love the monster. Mostly cuz it has a low seat so it'ld be cool for me as i'm not very tall... And also its a Ducati and looks sexy in red!!!
I'm thinking of just getting a new 696. It'll come with warranty and the lot and might get it for slightly less due to the recession too. Also like the look of the new 696 compared to the old 695.
But i'll get the Duke after getting some cheap starter bike first to get used to on. I would hate dropping a shiny new 696. Although you can easily change the covers on its tank if you damage it or get bored of the color!! But then i doubt anyone would insure me on a new 696 for my 1st bike!!
Are you mad? I've gradually worked my way up to a 636cc kwaker. I would start with a 125cc or a 250cc at the most. You will kill yourself on anything bigger to start. Took me 2 months to get used to the power of the 636. And thats just to the point that I could properly handle it. I'll never need any more power than this. It does 0 - 60 in 2.9 seconds!!0 -
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mighty mechanic wrote: »@antispastic
you're not cut out for biking imo. I get the impression that you would prefer your commute to involve no other traffic. I've had 2 accidents in 10 years, both of which I took as lesson learnt. Biking for me would not be the same WITHOUT the dangers. They are what make it interesting;)
You drove in a straight line through the worlds biggest carpark for 7 years and its tainted your impartial opinion imo.
Your reading skills appear to lag quite a distance behind your riding skills.
a) I enjoyed biking for a good number of the "early years" because I was too ignorant of the full suite of dangers to have that knowledge cramp my enjoyment.
b) Some spills and increasing knowledge of the dangers reduced my enjoyment in the "middle years". I became more aware of my own breakability.
c) Even more knowledge and riding according to that knowledge and some advanced training - not to say the sheer number of miles... has restored my enjoyment of motorcycling in these "latter years"
d) If you check back you'll see that the 7 years you refer to involved commuting from Bray to Finglas via town and back - about as challenging a commute as one could wish for. When the motorway opened up I switched to a car shortly afterwards because of the boredom.
e) I would say that the challenges of motorcycling - not just the dangers are what make it interesting. Commuting that town commute was enjoyable because of the challenge and because of the experience to meet that challenge on something like an equal footing.
f) What I've been attempting to point out is that training, protective gear and the like don't significantly alter the fact that for a period (of years) you are effectively blind to dangers that can alter the course of your life forever. Enter motorcycling with your eyes as open as you can - not with your head up your arse. If your eyes being opened mean you decide not to enter it at all then I'd say you'd be taking the more logical and rational of the options.
Life doesn't have to be only about logic however
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antiskeptic wrote: »Your reading skills appear to lag quite a distance behind your riding skills.
a) I enjoyed biking for a good number of the "early years" because I was too ignorant of the full suite of dangers to have that knowledge cramp my enjoyment.
b) Some spills and increasing knowledge of the dangers reduced my enjoyment in the "middle years"
c) Even more knowledge and riding according to that knowledge and some advanced training - not to say the sheer number of miles... has restored my enjoyment of motorcycling in these "latter years"
d) If you check back you'll see that the 7 years you refer to involved commuting from Bray to Finglas via town and back - about as challenging a commute as one could wish for. When the motorway opened up I switched to a car shortly afterwards because of the boredom.
e) I would say that the challenges of motorcycling - not just the dangers are what make it interesting. Commuting that town commute was enjoyable because of the challenge and because of the experience to meet that challenge on something like an equal footing.
f) What I've been attempting to point out is that training, protective gear and the like don't significantly alter the fact that for a period (of years) you are effectively blind to dangers that can alter the course of your life forever. Enter motorcycling with your eyes as open as you can - not with your head up your arse. If your eyes being opened mean you decide not to enter it at all then I'd say you'd be taking the more logical and rational of the options.
Life doesn't have to be only about logic however
Ok. I'll start off with this
walking point duty in Veitnam:eek::eek:
WTF are you on about ya clown!!!
Next, on to this
I think it's safe to say that you completely failed at getting anything across to af other than biking is a fools pursuit. Thats not just my opinion btw. If you were trying to get a less biased opinion across I suggest you try again.
May I suggest you try this method - leave all the veitnam, training bull**** aside and give your own opinion on what biking means to you from the heart. If you can't get passionate about it then I will stand by my opinion that you're not cut out for it.
And now on to this
direct quote;
9) Biking isn't "fun". It's a serious game where the enjoyment comes from recognising the risk, managing the risk and commanding the terrain your in. It's exhilerating in that sense. But not fun as such - your too busy concentrating to have fun. If it is being considered as fun then you're likely in serious danger.
10) If your bike commute is a town one taking (you say) a half an hour then a bicycle will get you there quicker - you don't have to stop at lights on a pushbike. You'll save time not having to struggle in and out of all that heavy gear either.
if biking is not fun then why the fug do you do it If it's just a mode of transport for you then you never should have posted in this thread imo.
A real biker would never advocate using a fugging bicycle over a bike:mad:
BTW you do have to stop at lights on a bicycle ya numpty
Also, if you struggling into gear then it's not the right size. Get some gear thats the same size of your ego.....................................point duty in Veitnam!!! WTF are ya like
And finally this
direct quote
Don't get me wrong. I've enjoyed bikes tremendously but knowing what I know about the risks facing the inexperienced, I wouldn't advise my worst enemy to take it up.
Between the government, gaybo and yourself there'll be no young lads taking up biking in the years to come. You are the wrong person, imo, to be advising this chap on biking.
BTW - please don't ever take a job answering the phones in the samaritines!!!0 -
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mighty mechanic wrote: »Ok. I'll start off with this
walking point duty in Veitnam:eek::eek: WTF are you on about ya clown!!!
It's an analogy used to describe the position the learner will inevitably find himself in: out on his own with death-potential likely to pop it's head out at any moment.
Can you think of a more apt one? And mind the language - otherwise we won't be conversing for long moreI think it's safe to say that you completely failed at getting anything across to af other than biking is a fools pursuit. Thats not just my opinion btw. If you were trying to get a less biased opinion across I suggest you try again.
It's not foolish to take up biking. It's illogical and irrational given the facts as they are. That's not a reason not to take it up but lets not kid anyone (nor permit them to kid themselves in the case they choose to ask the question) that the analogy above isn't the way it is.May I suggest you try this method - leave all the veitnam, training bull**** aside and give your own opinion on what biking means to you from the heart. If you can't get passionate about it then I will stand by my opinion that you're not cut out for it.
I don't see what passion has to do with it - I'm not a crusader for/against biking. I don't hang around with bikers (and never have), I've been and enjoyed being a bike mechanic. I've been and hated being a motorcycle courier (in the days before good wet gear that is). I've 400,000 or so all weather miles under my belt and still enjoy riding motorcycles. I prefer riding on snow than ice. What has this to do with anything?9) Biking isn't "fun". It's a serious game where the enjoyment comes from recognising the risk, managing the risk and commanding the terrain your in. It's exhilerating in that sense. But not fun as such - your too busy concentrating to have fun. If it is being considered as fun then you're likely in serious danger.if biking is not fun then why the fug do you do it If it's just a mode of transport for you then you never should have posted in this thread imo.
You're tendency not to read what's written is highlighted above. I enjoy riding a motorcycle it appears.10) If your bike commute is a town one taking (you say) a half an hour then a bicycle will get you there quicker - you don't have to stop at lights on a pushbike. You'll save time not having to struggle in and out of all that heavy gear either.
A real biker would never advocate using a fugging bicycle over a bike:mad:
BTW you do have to stop at lights on a bicycle ya numpty
A "real" biker? There's some dictionary definition for this I take it?
You don't have to stop at lights on a bicycle anymore than you don't have to pay too much attention to the laws on bikes in buslanes (at least, you could get nicked in them for the 7 years I was riding in them daily - although cops seldom did pay attention).
Race from Stillorgan to Dame St circa 5 years ago - rush hour. Me on a Fazer 600, my mate on a bicycle. He won.Also, if you struggling into gear then it's not the right size. Get some gear thats the same size of your ego..point duty in Veitnam!!! WTF are ya like
My ego won't be talking to your ego for very long more unless you can keep a civil tonque in your head. I seem to have gotten your goat - possibly because you have some notion as to what constitutes real bikers.
I've not got a whole lot of time for the us vs. them viewpoint to be honest. It's a viewpoint that tends to instill a shifting the blame to "stupid cagers/pedestrians/taxi drives". Which is something I don't find helpful when it comes to surviving.
My policy is to blame me when I come close.Don't get me wrong. I've enjoyed bikes tremendously but knowing what I know about the risks facing the inexperienced, I wouldn't advise my worst enemy to take it up.Between the government, gaybo and yourself there'll be no young lads taking up biking in the years to come. You are the wrong person, imo, to be advising this chap on biking.
So what if no young fellas take up motorcycling in years to come. That's between those young chaps and motorcycling. What I feel they are entitled to is a chance to deal with facts as they are - not a "real" bikers desire to paper over those facts with "passion".BTW - please don't ever take a job answering the phones in the samaritines!!!
Isn't this a little arse around tit? My advice is not to jump.0 -
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antiskeptic, not sure what message you are trying to give, but you have me scratching my head.
I thought it was plain enough. Learner riders: considering taking up commuting biking? My advice is don't. If you insist on taking up biking then do yourself a favour and avoid commuting for a couple of years.
Any experienced ones out there ever come back from wintersun and find their first day back commuting involving a wet, school-morning, snarled up journey?
It's like heading into the pit of Hell compared to your relaxing on a beach but 24 hours before* never ride beyond your ability.
Which brings me back to the chicken an egg dilemma for a learner rider. The learner doesn't know about his lack of ability in order that he can follow this piece of advice.0 -
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antiskeptic wrote: »
Any experienced ones out there ever come back from wintersun and find their first day back commuting involving a wet, school-morning, snarled up journey?
It's like heading into the pit of Hell compared to your relaxing on a beach but 24 hours before
This makes no sense. You live in Ireland boss. 300 of the days of the year are like this. Of course everyone would prefer to be on holiday instead of commuting. You really do come across very bitter about biking.antiskeptic wrote: »
Which brings me back to the chicken an egg dilemma for a learner rider. The learner doesn't know about his lack of ability in order that he can follow this piece of advice.
The first time I got on a bike was when I picked up my first bike brand new from the dealer. Within a week I had an off on black ice late at night. No amount of expierence would have helped me there.0 -
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mighty mechanic wrote: »This makes no sense. You live in Ireland boss. 300 of the days of the year are like this. Of course everyone would prefer to be on holiday instead of commuting. You really do come across very bitter about biking.
After the initial shock of first-morning-back-commuting I'd slot into normal mode and get on with it (and enjoy the challenge).
The learner has 2 disadvantages:
- he doesn't see the Hell that's actually there
- he had no normal mode to slot back into in response to it.The first time I got on a bike was when I picked up my first bike brand new from the dealer. Within a week I had an off on black ice late at night. No amount of expierence would have helped me there.
You're saying that you'd be in the same position today as you would have been 10 years ago. That there is nothing you've learned in the intervening time that would have altered the outcome? That your ability to predict the possible dangers (for a given set of weather conditions) hasn't been altered by 10 winters?0 -
already decided
Given that and given..it'll be for commuting as I have zero interest in getting that sodding 25a or any other rubbish service wher e I need to get on two buses and and 2 hours journey.
...you've considered and rejected cycling.Biking, something mulled over for a while myself, interested to get into it but think I'll be going for a 125 unless I can get a 250 thats low power to match my low experience.
I'd go for something with a bit of power. I'd a bike stolen and hired a GN125 and it was the most lethal thing I've ever ridden. It has only enough power to accelerate at the same rate as traffic from lights - meaning you loose one of a bikes defense mechanisms: the ability to be able to squirt out of danger by virtue of acceleration.
Terrifying.
Ultimately, you need to be the one to control your speed so it doesn't matter what size bike you buy in that regard: you can go too fast on any sized bike. If fearing acceleration will be too sharp you can alter the sprockets for minor cost to reduce the "savagery" of the acceleration of a more powerful bike. 250 would be the min I'd go for.Personally I like the Suzuki GN type of bike, friend of mine gave me some derisory looks when I said that but he's into fast bikes.
A solid enough learner bike.0 -
Biking is about enjoyment, and I am pretty sure that Antiskeptic has had many enjoyable years driving.
Only one driving in fact. But I'm taking to it like a duck to water: window wipers, heaters, sound, safety, lights that do more than glow in the dark. Why didn't anyone tell me about this before!!
The great thing is that I don't have to chase a powerful car buzz - as nothing can compare to the acceleration of a bike. Which means I can trundle along quiet happily at 55 on the M50 in this dog of an Escort of mine and let the fast boys whizz by.
Heaven!Indeed, I even enjoy commuting. Not many car drivers / bus passengers can say that. However, I am all too aware that the enjoyment can be tempered at any instant, and that in such a case I will always be worst off.
Which hazard do you hate most. The one against which you reckon theres virtually no defence I mean?0 -
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Complete rubbish. As with most of your opinions in this thread.
Let's have a look then..So if it was a cyclist who got T-boned . It would be 50% the cyclists fault? He would be near the kerb. No. If it was a pedestrian, who also has right of way, would it still be 50% his fault? Hey it must be. He cant be seen at a quick glace.
The bike rider was poorly positioned on the road. It's not in the rules of the road - its in the rules of experience. The cyclist hasn't the opportunity to re-position. Nor does the pedestrian. The biker does.
If the biker without experience want's to 100% blame the car driver for his lack of experience then so be it. And there I was thinking I was being generous!The Biker Had right of way . Clear cut. You have a very strange point of view and should think twice about advising young lads with your viet Nam stories and how you would ride your push bike through red lights.
You're free to advise them to ride in the gutter - because they have "a right of way". Each to their own.Your MENTAL posts have made it onto more than one forum by now. The countries bikers are having a right old sneer at your crazy posts.
Hi "countries bikers"!0
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