The religious come a' knockin

swiss

After just over two years living in Dublin, I've finally had the faithful call to my door to try to get me round to their way of thinking. Two Chinese girls popped up, presumably ready for a polite brush off (maybe I'm being unkind to my fellow neighbours).

I don't know what specific flavour of Christianity they were peddling, but it seemed to center on the idea of God having a female as well as a male character. They had this questionnaire that asked me a few basic belief questions, as well as a few Bible passages with a question asking me what it means.

I have to say I found the conversation interesting, they seemed surprised when I told them that I didn't believe in the bible in any sort of religious sense. When they told me the bible was true I simply replied that it was a circular logic. The Bible is true because it was written by God because it says so in... the Bible.

They then asked me if I believed I had a spirit, to which I of course replied that I didn't, and that when we die we rot in the ground. Hardly an uplifting thought, but at least I'm not kidding myself, or so I believe. Oddly enough, they mentioned that it was "proved" that the soul existed because it had a weight as scientists measured peoples weight as they died. My retort was that I would like to see the paper in which these results were published. I further explained that my world view was informed by evidence, and that my non belief was due to the lack of evidence for a supernatural deity. The conversation revolved around this theme for a while.

Finally they thanked me for my time and left.

I find myself wondering if I was being rude by engaging them in such frank debate, would they expect that I nod politely or accept their argument? Or perhaps that they would get the brush off? How do people here generally deal with religious proselytising?

Húrin

Sounds like a good way to respond. I'd be alarmed if somebody found that the soul had a measurable weight... it should not do as it is not physical. The film 21 grams was made about this claim.

uncleoswald

I wonder if it was the same two I met on the street recently. They stopped me wanting to ask me some questions. (usually I'd walk on but the guy they asked before me had aggressively told them to f*ck off so I felt embarrassed to be Irish and they were kind of cute ) It was only once they had me that I realised it was just about Jesus. I really didn't want to get into a debate in the middle of the street and they seemed fairly harmless so I quickly apologised and made my retreat.

Handsome Bob

swiss wrote: »

After just over two years living in Dublin, I've finally had the faithful call to my door to try to get me round to their way of thinking. Two Chinese girls popped up, presumably ready for a polite brush off (maybe I'm being unkind to my fellow neighbours).

I don't know what specific flavour of Christianity they were peddling, but it seemed to center on the idea of God having a female as well as a male character. They had this questionnaire that asked me a few basic belief questions, as well as a few Bible passages with a question asking me what it means.

I have to say I found the conversation interesting, they seemed surprised when I told them that I didn't believe in the bible in any sort of religious sense. When they told me the bible was true I simply replied that it was a circular logic. The Bible is true because it was written by God because it says so in... the Bible.

They then asked me if I believed I had a spirit, to which I of course replied that I didn't, and that when we die we rot in the ground. Hardly an uplifting thought, but at least I'm not kidding myself, or so I believe. Oddly enough, they mentioned that it was "proved" that the soul existed because it had a weight as scientists measured peoples weight as they died. My retort was that I would like to see the paper in which these results were published. I further explained that my world view was informed by evidence, and that my non belief was due to the lack of evidence for a supernatural deity. The conversation revolved around this theme for a while.

Finally they thanked me for my time and left.

I find myself wondering if I was being rude by engaging them in such frank debate, would they expect that I nod politely or accept their argument? Or perhaps that they would get the brush off? How do people here generally deal with religious proselytising?

Hardly the most hostile of exchanges, I've seen far worse. You were by no means rude, that is of course if the exchange went as you say it did.:pac:

Asiaprod

swiss wrote: »

Two Chinese girls popped up, presumably ready for a polite brush off (maybe I'm being unkind to my fellow neighbours).

I don't know what specific flavour of Christianity they were peddling, but it seemed to center on the idea of God having a female as well as a male character.

Wow, thats a new one on me. I know we have a branch of Christianity in Japan that worships at Jesus' grave...yes he is buried in Japan. I have never heard of any branch in Asia that centers on a female side to the Christian God.

Zombrex

er, everyone back up there for a minute ... let me get this straight, there are two cute Asian chicks wandering around Dublin who would actually want to stop and chat to me ... where and when please :pac:

Gambler

Asiaprod wrote: »

I know we have a branch of Christianity in Japan that worships at Jesus' grave...yes he is buried in Japan.

Poor guy must have been cut up into pieces and sent to different part of the worlds, seems a few people have his burial site..

http://www.jesus.com.au/html/page/jesus_in_india
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_views_of_Jesus
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1171894508893

And apparently he also ascended to heaven leaving no earthly remains, it all depends on who you talk to...

uncleoswald

Gambler wrote: »

Poor guy must have been cut up into pieces and sent to different part of the worlds, seems a few people have his burial site..

And apparently he also ascended to heaven leaving no earthly remains, it all depends on who you talk to...

Sure I have some in a jar at home. Who doesn't?

The Mad Hatter

Gambler wrote: »

Poor guy must have been cut up into pieces and sent to different part of the worlds, seems a few people have his burial site..

http://www.jesus.com.au/html/page/jesus_in_india
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_views_of_Jesus
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1171894508893

And apparently he also ascended to heaven leaving no earthly remains, it all depends on who you talk to...

That's nothing. According to QI, his grandmother had seven heads. They were all approved as relics by the RCC back in way-back-when.

ChocolateSauce

Sounds like a fine way to respond. By approaching you, they signed away any right they may have had to not have their beliefs attacked, and by merely asking questions you were very moderate.

In fact, it might even be argued that it's rude to just nod politely, because in your head you'd be going "yeah right", and being slightly dishonest by not telling them so.

Rev Hellfire

A simple thanks but not interested is all that's required.
Manners people, its a case of manners.

Dades

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Manners people, its a case of manners.

Shouldn't 'manners' preclude someone from asking a stranger about their religion in the first place?

Rev Hellfire

Dades wrote: »

Shouldn't 'manners' preclude someone from asking a stranger about their religion in the first place?

Two wrongs don't make a right

Galvasean

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Two wrongs don't make a right

An eye for an eye.

swiss

Ah but you see I didn't mind being bothered, I sometimes fear that I live in a little world where my beliefs are re-inforced by my peers and by what I read on the Internet, so in a way I found it an interesting exercise to explain and defend what I feel about the world and a supernatural existence (or lack thereof) to others.

I don't feel I was being rude either. I think that people can believe what they like, but in order to bring me on board, I do think that it is important to demonstrate to my satisfaction a rigorous logic and argument to support their case. In this case, it was bases on Bible verses which I perhaps unkindly dismissed more or less out of hand. It was almost as if I had torpedoed their whole argument by arguing the bible was a work of fiction. Which it is (where is the right smiley when you need it).

Zillah

Aren´t most of these people told to not bother with atheists at all? It´s way easier to convince someone of weak faith to transfer it than to cause it´s spontaneous generation in a cold rational heart.

Anyway, I think you were quite gentle with them. I´d have been much the same but I´d have thrown in a little bit of argument by ridicule.

Really depends on how cute they were.

Schuhart

Húrin wrote: »

Sounds like a good way to respond. I'd be alarmed if somebody found that the soul had a measurable weight... it should not do as it is not physical. The film 21 grams was made about this claim.

Just to save people a Google, an article explaining why the claim is baloney is here.

Yeah, I know that it probably means something if we sort of knew it was baloney to begin with about implicit assumptions in our outlook. But I'll take refuge in the statement that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Wacker

swiss wrote: »

Oddly enough, they mentioned that it was "proved" that the soul existed because it had a weight as scientists measured peoples weight as they died.

Doesn't your sphincter muscle relax as you die?

Handsome Bob

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

A simple thanks but not interested is all that's required.
Manners people, its a case of manners.

I really don't think his manners were that bad in comparison to what I have seen before. It's not as if he directly insulted them.

Zillah wrote: »

I´d have been much the same but I´d have thrown in a little bit of argument by ridicule.

Really depends on how cute they were.

That honestly shocks me.:pac:

davef1000

I lived in Terenure until a few months ago and used to regularly get visits from the evangelisers from the church near the corner of Leinster Road. I'd usually just tell them that I'm not interested in talking about Jesus, and leave it at that. The odd time I'd engage in a conversation, if I fancied a bit of a debate. The majority of times they were alright, if very patronising. ("Ah, sure when you grow up you'll come to your senses" sort of thing. I'm 29...) The last time I spoke to any of them it went something like this:

Person at my door: "Hello, we're from a church in Harold's Cross. Are you a Catholic?"

Me: "No."

P: "Well, when you look for Jesus you'll find he can do some great things."

M: "I have looked, actually, and I didn't find anything."

P: "Oh, well when you look a bit harder, you'll see that he can do things like cure the sick."

M: "He hasn't been doing much of that lately, has he?"

P: "Oh, he HAS! In my prayer group people are cured all the time. He cures things like a sore leg, or a pain in the back, or homosexuality-"

M: "Wait, you're saying that homosexuality is something that needs to be CURED?"

P: "It can be, yes."

M: *slams door*

And this from a woman my age who looked like butter wouldn't melt.

swiss

davef1000 wrote: »

P: "Oh, he HAS! In my prayer group people are cured all the time. He cures things like a sore leg, or a pain in the back, or homosexuality-"

M: "Wait, you're saying that homosexuality is something that needs to be CURED?"

P: "It can be, yes."

At least they didn't try this line of logic with me.

Húrin

davef1000 wrote: »

Person at my door: "Hello, we're from a church in Harold's Cross. Are you a Catholic?"

Me: "No."

P: "Well, when you look for Jesus you'll find he can do some great things."

M: "I have looked, actually, and I didn't find anything."

P: "Oh, well when you look a bit harder, you'll see that he can do things like cure the sick."

M: "He hasn't been doing much of that lately, has he?"

P: "Oh, he HAS! In my prayer group people are cured all the time. He cures things like a sore leg, or a pain in the back, or homosexuality-"

M: "Wait, you're saying that homosexuality is something that needs to be CURED?"

P: "It can be, yes."

M: *slams door*

And this from a woman my age who looked like butter wouldn't melt.

It's funny how the homosexuality issue is such a deal-breaker for people these days.

Mickeroo

Húrin wrote: »

It's funny how the homosexuality issue is such a deal-breaker for people these days.

I think it's funny people still think it's wrong.

Dades

It's funnier how "worship" is such a deal breaker for an all-loving creator.

Dave!

Húrin wrote: »

It's funny how the homosexuality issue is such a deal-breaker for people these days.

ffs....

Galvasean

I think its funny how homosexuality is likened to having a sore leg.

Mena

Galvasean wrote: »

I think its funny how homosexuality is likened to having a sore leg.

Sex + Kama Sutra = Sore Leg?

Galvasean

I wonder will the cure for homosexuality come in cream or tablet form?

The Mad Hatter

Galvasean wrote: »

I wonder will the cure for homosexuality come in cream or tablet form?

Suppository?

Galvasean

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Suppository?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Frd53vbCHLg

Handsome Bob

Húrin wrote: »

It's funny how the homosexuality issue is such a deal-breaker for people these days.

Yup, how dare people be pissed off when they are told they are sinners for living a life that doesn't harm anyone else.