The Ultimate Irish Hunting Knife

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

Sorry folks

My always on broadband ???? ..... let's just say it wasnt.

Anyway I've ordered the Steel (Suminagashi) and some handle material (Wych Elm) both of which are on their way to me.

So I suppose it's time to start thinking about fixtures and fittings.

Think about the following items over the next few days and decide which ones we require.

• Finger Guard (Quillion)
• Rear Bolster (Pommel)
• Handle Pins
• Lanyard Hole
• Liners (Thin strips of material between the handle material and the tang)

Remember we may not need all of them. Try to think about the dimensions of each part and also what material to use.


A few choices of material are.

• Brass
• Copper
• Bronze
• Nickel Silver
• Stainless Steel
• Mosaic Pins
• Coloured Micarta (liners)

Wych elm seems to be the choice for the handle material but if anyone wants to lodge an objection now is the time to do so.

I like the way the build is progressing and I think we will have a very fine knife at the end but I'd like to see something in that knife that says "Irish" it hasn't happened for me yet. So a few more handle ideas would be great.

lordarpad

Maybe, I don't know yet.

davymoore wrote: »

I like the way the build is progressing and I think we will have a very fine knife at the end but I'd like to see something in that knife that says "Irish" it hasn't happened for me yet. So a few more handle ideas would be great.

How about writing something in Ogham on the back of the knife?

Hibrion

Maybe, I don't know yet.

I think a Quillion and pins in Bronze would be nice and a lanyard hole would be a usefull adition.

Feel free to object but did someone not mention that the elm is not a native Irish species?? Although I agree it looks great is it really the best choice for an Irish knife??
Not trying to cause arguements but its just a thought.:)

Hibrion

Maybe, I don't know yet.

The ogham idea still seems a nice one to me; as they are vertically written rhunes they would lend themselves well as a decorative aspect on this knife and (in my opinion) wouldnt take from the knife and make it look like a cheap souvenier.
It would be a simple addition and would give a historical Irish aspect to the knife.

Double Barrel

Maybe, I don't know yet.

Hi Smokey,

A fair amount of Wych Elm was harvested here at the onset of the disease and is available but would have to be processed. Wych Elm "is" a native Irish tree.

A ricasso and bolster combination finger groove is what I was referring to.
Click image to enlarge and click the image that appears.
[IMG][/img]

A ricasso with a radiused finger groove ahead of the bolster is a possibility as it allows the user to choke up on the blade and adds to functionality in tight quarters and delicate work. As you say it is a matter of personal taste.

I have used this little knife mostly for trout and salmon but it has field dressed a few deer.;)

jwshooter

that's a cracking looking knife BD, who made it love the blade profile its like my favourite knife a buck 110.

jwshooter

davy the vain of my life is sharping my knife s .

i use a wet stone or oil stone ,some nites i can do a great job on it more nites i would eat the thing quicker .

can you recommend a sharped er like the dick diamond or what do you use

macadam

Yes, Sun 23rd only

Gone a bit off topic there JW , checkout youtube.

DB, lovely knife, just enough of a fingerguard on it,no need for to big of finger guard to take the look of the handle away , also liners and a lanyard hole should finish it off.

Some people know fook all,more constructive he said , like what, its a hunting forum

Double Barrel

Maybe, I don't know yet.

JW,
Western, Boulder, Colorado, acquired / went out of buisness in 1991. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Knife_Company

jwshooter

macadam wrote: »

Gone a bit off topic there JW , checkout youtube.

DB, lovely knife, just enough of a fingerguard on it,no need for to big of finger guard to take the look of the handle away , also liners and a lanyard hole should finish it off.

Some people know fook all,more constructive he said , like what, its a hunting forum

you think ,a knife thats not sharp is possible the most useless thing known to man .
i asked davey how he sharpens his knifes so its very relevant to the thread as he will be sharping this knife.
if you have to rely on you tube for your skills i would not be bragging about it

jwshooter

Double Barrel wrote: »

JW,
Western, Boulder, Colorado, acquired / went out of buisness in 1991. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Knife_Company

a very fine knife BD what length is the blade 3" or so .i would like a fondle of it ,do they ever come up for sale .

Double Barrel

Maybe, I don't know yet.

JW,
3" blade 420 stainless steel 8 3/4 overall.
Know what you mean about the 110, I have a well used 112 ranger.
Check your PM's.

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

jwshooter wrote: »

davy the vain of my life is sharping my knife s .

i use a wet stone or oil stone ,some nites i can do a great job on it more nites i would eat the thing quicker .

can you recommend a sharped er like the dick diamond or what do you use

This is the method I use

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLjFjT4vYsM

You have to take your time and try not to remove too much material in stage one. This method is quick and will sharpen good enough to shave with.


Davy

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

Well the Wych Elm for the handles arrived today and my first impression is that it's not very impressive, at least at first glance. There's not much figure to it and it's kinda bland. But then it is in a fairly rough state just saw cut and maybe it'll polish up well.

I'll have to send it off to be stabelized with resin anyway and that will definitely help.



The pieces are 35mm wide 150mm long and 10mm thick

Anyway things are beginning to happen

BTW I like the Ogham idea if anyone knows any symbols or how to write ogham it will be a help

Davy

lordarpad

Maybe, I don't know yet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogham ;o)

macadam

Yes, Sun 23rd only

Thats the exact same knife sharpening video i was directing others to , gives a great edge as long as you dont over do it.

The wych elm will be fine its only the bare bones at the moment, when it gets a bit of colour into it you will see a big difference.

keep up the great work.

sfakiaman

Maybe, I don't know yet.

http://www.ancientscripts.com/ogham.html

The above link has good info.

lordarpad

Maybe, I don't know yet.

also have a look at the link collection at the bottom of the wikipedia entry

Smokeyskelton

Maybe, I don't know yet.

Good to see things are progressing. It's only when you read the thread you realise the myriad of decisions for design and materials that are involved.

This really is a large task you've taken on Davy.

To be honest, I'd have to agree with you that the pics of the samples are not very impressive, but as you say, they may look better once polished. Something with a darker and richer colour might be more aesthetically pleasing. If it could be an Irish material it would be great (I take Double Barrel's point that Wych Elm is an Irish tree - I thought due to Dutch Elm disease it would have been imported). I like the look and strength of desert Ironwood, but it's not native to Ireland of course. A nice well figured piece of dark oak might be good?

In relation to bolsters, does anyone have any pics of the chosen steel with different types of bolsters? I've had a quick google, and it seems that most damascus type blades seem to have steel bolsters, I would imagine that is a aesthetic decision rather than a practical one (I'm open to correction on this). You could also decide not to go with bolsters as another option.

I too would like a small finger guard, but I'm not a major fan of a large ricasso / choil for a finger in front of the finger guard on the blade. I appreciate some people sometimes choke up on the blade for finer work, but I just can't get over the looks. I would tend to hold the blade almost like a pencil for very fine work (as long as the blade is very sharp), but I hold the handle almost exclusively. Thanks for your reply Double Barrel.

I like the idea of the Ogham on the handle for a distinctive Irish look and for decorative purposes, but I'm not sure how it will look. If you were to go with the ogham I think the mosaic pins might be overkill as it might look too "busy". Do mosaic pins have any practical application (like pins or corby bolts), or are they purely decorative? (Pardon my ignorance on this point).

For liners something like linen micarta in either red or black might look good, white could be another option. Red or white would give a nice strong contrast depending on the handle materials, but black would be more understated (possibly too boring?).

Davy, are you beginning to think that designing a knife by committee is more hassle than it's worth . Seriously, you've taken on a very large task, but you have moved it along nicely.

Smokeyskelton

lordarpad

Maybe, I don't know yet.

actually I was suggesting Ogham writing on the blade And do we have to have liners? I'd like to keep it simple.

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

Do we have to have liners?

I don't really know, do they serve any purpose other than for decoration?

Well the answer is yes they do. Liners serve as a barrier between the blade and the handle material. Think of it as a damp proof coarse for knives. Any moisture trapped in the wood, leather or other materials is kept away from the blade thus proctecting it.

Modern handle materials such as Micarta & Stabelized timbers etc. don't hold as much moisture though so do we have to have liners ?

That's up to you guys

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

Ogham Writing

I've been giving this some thought over the last day or so and you know what, I'm already fed up of it. True it would add an Irish touch to the knife but so would a shamrock and a tricolour handle.

We have been very good even maticulous so far about picking various elements of the knife based on their practicality and or nescessity and in the case of the wood based on it's Irish origin. To simply stick a harp or a shamrock on it to make it more authentic, would, I think be an injustice at this stage.

When I have time I like to watch programmes like Nationwide or Hands on RTE and I often marvel at the traditional skills being used even in modern workshops or small factories to produce very Irish/Celtic produce. Waterford Glass, Arran Jumpers, Pieces of sculpture or wood turning, paintings, photography etc. you look at the finished piece and you just know.

I don't want to lose sight of the original goal (See the very first post) and I feel that not enough effort is being made here.

Now that is not to say that we have been lazy nor do I suggest that you guys haven't really thought about it. Some very good suggestions have been made

but I'll tell you what I think........

We're just not good enough in this particular field (The design field).

In fact we suck at it and we need help.

What I mean is that I am a knifemaker not a designer, you guys are hunters not designers. Between us we have come up with all of the elements we believe will make a great hunting blade (and fair play I think we have done it) and we are about to stick a handle on it slap a shamrock on it and call it Irish begorra.

So what I suggest is that we recruit some help. The resources are already out there we just need to harness some of them. I think we should contact some of the other boards like the Arts & Crafts boys & Girls or the other Arts & Design Boards and see if they would be interested in helping out with this area of the build.

What do you guys think of this suggestion ?

Offy

davymoore wrote: »

Ogham Writing

I've been giving this some thought over the last day or so and you know what, I'm already fed up of it. True it would add an Irish touch to the knife but so would a shamrock and a tricolour handle.

We have been very good even maticulous so far about picking various elements of the knife based on their practicality and or nescessity and in the case of the wood based on it's Irish origin. To simply stick a harp or a shamrock on it to make it more authentic, would, I think be an injustice at this stage.

When I have time I like to watch programmes like Nationwide or Hands on RTE and I often marvel at the traditional skills being used even in modern workshops or small factories to produce very Irish/Celtic produce. Waterford Glass, Arran Jumpers, Pieces of sculpture or wood turning, paintings, photography etc. you look at the finished piece and you just know.

I don't want to lose sight of the original goal (See the very first post) and I feel that not enough effort is being made here.

Now that is not to say that we have been lazy nor do I suggest that you guys haven't really thought about it. Some very good suggestions have been made

but I'll tell you what I think........

We're just not good enough in this particular field (The design field).

In fact we suck at it and we need help.

What I mean is that I am a knifemaker not a designer, you guys are hunters not designers. Between us we have come up with all of the elements we believe will make a great hunting blade (and fair play I think we have done it) and we are about to stick a handle on it slap a shamrock on it and call it Irish begorra.

So what I suggest is that we recruit some help. The resources are already out there we just need to harness some of them. I think we should contact some of the other boards like the Arts & Crafts boys & Girls or the other Arts & Design Boards and see if they would be interested in helping out with this area of the build.

What do you guys think of this suggestion ?

My job title is mechanical design engineer so any help I can offer is yours Davy, pm me on anything you like. I fully agree with your ideas about shamrocks, harps, etc. I dont think it should *look* Irish, I think it should *feel* Irish.

lordarpad

Maybe, I don't know yet.

davymoore wrote: »

Ogham Writing

I've been giving this some thought over the last day or so and you know what, I'm already fed up of it. True it would add an Irish touch to the knife but so would a shamrock and a tricolour handle.

We have been very good even maticulous so far about picking various elements of the knife based on their practicality and or nescessity and in the case of the wood based on it's Irish origin. To simply stick a harp or a shamrock on it to make it more authentic, would, I think be an injustice at this stage.

When I have time I like to watch programmes like Nationwide or Hands on RTE and I often marvel at the traditional skills being used even in modern workshops or small factories to produce very Irish/Celtic produce. Waterford Glass, Arran Jumpers, Pieces of sculpture or wood turning, paintings, photography etc. you look at the finished piece and you just know.

I don't want to lose sight of the original goal (See the very first post) and I feel that not enough effort is being made here.

Now that is not to say that we have been lazy nor do I suggest that you guys haven't really thought about it. Some very good suggestions have been made

but I'll tell you what I think........

We're just not good enough in this particular field (The design field).

In fact we suck at it and we need help.

What I mean is that I am a knifemaker not a designer, you guys are hunters not designers. Between us we have come up with all of the elements we believe will make a great hunting blade (and fair play I think we have done it) and we are about to stick a handle on it slap a shamrock on it and call it Irish begorra.

So what I suggest is that we recruit some help. The resources are already out there we just need to harness some of them. I think we should contact some of the other boards like the Arts & Crafts boys & Girls or the other Arts & Design Boards and see if they would be interested in helping out with this area of the build.

What do you guys think of this suggestion ?

good plan. The talent is out there, let's harness it.

mallards

Yes, Sun 23rd only

Yes, I wouldn't have a problem with that Davy.

Mallards.

macadam

Yes, Sun 23rd only

Davy,
I see your point on the design issue , but seen as we hunt to eat , maybe we could remember the great famine 1845-1848 when all our forefathers had, was what they could hunt, (just another thought) maybe it not the right idea for a hunting knife.

But we can be sure during those times there were more hunters in this fair land than ever.

Smokeyskelton

Maybe, I don't know yet.

In relation to getting others to help in the design, that could be a good idea, but the problem might be that if they don't have a basic understanding of the geometry of a hunting knife (and by extension the purpose of the ricasso, choil, belly etc) then they will design it on purely aesthetic grounds and we could end up with some fantasy knife design and no good for practical use.

Are you just looking for help on the design on the handle (and bolsters etc), or the whole knife?

If it is just the handle at the moment (or is it the blade shape e.g. drop point), perhaps we could all try and google some images that we like, and use these as a starting point? What do people think of that? Maybe we could put a time limit for getting images?

Again, I'm not trying to step on anybody's toes here, as there are others out there more qualified than me, it's just my 2cents.

Smokeyskelton

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

For those who are new

davymoore wrote: »

We really have come a good way down the road
4" / 100mm Blade
1/8" / 3mm thick
Pathfinder Profile
Full Tang
Stainless to suit climate Suminagashi Steel
Flat Grind
Wych Elm handle

Now all we need to work on is a handle and a sheath

For the handle which is next, the most important thing is the shape and the feel in the hand a custom knife should feel very comfortable and safe to hold and use.

Other areas to be looked at here are the handle material itself and any fixtures or fittings (pins, bolsters, etc.) also embelishments like engraving etc.

The handle should be approx 5" /125mm long giving the overall length to be approx 9" / 225mm

To help get you started....

Right Click on the image below and select "Print Picture" ... Landscape.... Fit to media ... on a sheet of A4 paper and start drawing hopefully someone can post some really nice results.




Good luck

regards

Davy

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

Smokeyskelton wrote: »

In relation to getting others to help in the design, that could be a good idea, but the problem might be that if they don't have a basic understanding of the geometry of a hunting knife (and by extension the purpose of the ricasso, choil, belly etc) then they will design it on purely aesthetic grounds and we could end up with some fantasy knife design and no good for practical use.

Are you just looking for help on the design on the handle (and bolsters etc), or the whole knife?

If it is just the handle at the moment (or is it the blade shape e.g. drop point), perhaps we could all try and google some images that we like, and use these as a starting point? What do people think of that? Maybe we could put a time limit for getting images?

Again, I'm not trying to step on anybody's toes here, as there are others out there more qualified than me, it's just my 2cents.

Smokeyskelton

Just the handle shape at the moment.

Or rather the flow of both the blade and the handle together.

Offy .. If your design skills can help here they'd be very much appreciated.

Ok let's give this one more week by ourselves post handle shapes on that blade above no matter how odd looking and we will comment on them and try to refine the design a good Irish , Celtic Handle Shape.

Some points to note.

• It should be useable in the field
• It should be comfortable and safe to hold
• It should be fairly simple (try not to over elaborate)
• It should flow with the blade
• It should say I'm Irish (The hardest part)

Regarding comments try to be constructive. Simply mocking someones efforts because you don't like it will not help and will more than likely hinder the build so try to keep positive in your comments on other peoples efforts.


Best of luck

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

Wow ... Thanks to all who have participated so far.

Davy