The Ultimate Irish Hunting Knife

lordarpad

Maybe, I don't know yet.

hmm, is there any way of changing one's vote? I had voted for finger guard only and have come 'round to finger guard and pommel.

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

Afraid not, I think that's why it's better to think each step out carefully before voting.

bunny shooter

No

macadam wrote: »

Can we wait until the poll ends, then lets have the choices.

Its a fairly close poll , must mean were starting to agree !!!!!!!!!!!

Just got closer

lordarpad

Maybe, I don't know yet.

well, I guess I can live with either BTW davy, coming back to the ogham idea, why don't just sign your name in ogham on the blade?

scuttlebutt

Hi Davy , what are the pros for and against a pommel. I would think that if you had a knife with one you might be tempted to use it doing something silly. And ruin the best knife you might ever own?

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

I think that is exactly why you would want a pommel in the first place as it's there primarily to protect the handle material itself.

The only real Con is that it adds more weight to the knife.

As I said before I think it's down to aesthetics

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

lordarpad wrote: »

well, I guess I can live with either BTW davy, coming back to the ogham idea, why don't just sign your name in ogham on the blade?

I have my own makers mark already. I use it to mark all my knives. My Brand so to speak

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

Well it looks like we are having both a finger guard and a rear bolster.
That was the closest vote so far.

Double Barrel

Maybe, I don't know yet.

davymoore wrote: »

Well it looks like we are having both a finger guard and a rear bolster.

Feeding the monster. :D
Rear Bolster or a priest: Food for thought. :rolleyes:

jwshooter

they would be a bit heavy DB ,

lordarpad

Maybe, I don't know yet.

hmm. I like. _but_ this would require an irregularly shaped pommel, as this kinf patterning would be very tacky on a modern shape. I am having a feeling the solid tang is putting paid to that but am sitting ready to be corrected.

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

It'll be nigh on impossible to get much shape into the pommel area as the shape is being dictated by the fact that the knife is full tang.

We could I suppose try to go with a peculiar shaped rear end to the handle to try to create one. It would certainly be unique and it might give us that distinctly celtic look to the knife.

I'd be worried though that it would add a considerable ammount of weight to this area and wouldn't have much practical use on anything larger than a rabbit.

Do we think this is worth exploring ?

lordarpad

Maybe, I don't know yet.

davymoore wrote: »

It'll be nigh on impossible to get much shape into the pommel area as the shape is being dictated by the fact that the knife is full tang.

We could I suppose try to go with a peculiar shaped rear end to the handle to try to create one. It would certainly be unique and it might give us that distinctly celtic look to the knife.

I'd be worried though that it would add a considerable ammount of weight to this area and wouldn't have much practical use on anything larger than a rabbit.

Do we think this is worth exploring ?

yes ;o)

Double Barrel

Maybe, I don't know yet.

I am not sure everyone understood / understands the limitations a full tang imposes on the knifemaker.

Smokeyskelton

Maybe, I don't know yet.

I agree with Double Barrel about the full tang. A full tapered tang is potentially slightly stonger than a hidden tang, but it can seriously limit the knifemaker's options. I actually voted for a finger guard only, due to the full tang, otherwise I would have voted for a finger guard and pommel.

I was thinking about something similar with celtic knotwork, but on a flat pommel. It might look a little odd, but it might be possible to do a hybrid full tapered tang with the end ground down to a stick tang and peened over after the pommel has been fitted, that would also be possible for something shaped like Double Barrel's example. However, I've never made a knife in my life, so please feel free to ingore me, and let Davy talk about that! I know Davy was saying he was thinking about some way of soldering brass/copper to the full tang to create a rear bolster.

I've had trouble finding any examples of knives with a full tang and a pommel on google.


Smokeyskelton

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

Lads
This is off topic but I thought that some of you might be interested .

I have been given exclusive rights in Ireland to sell this new product.

For those of you who have always wanted a Damascus Knife or Gun Barrell the answer is here.




You simply disolve your tablets in water then soak the steel parts in the mixture for 45 minutes and hey presto Instant Damascus Steel.

It works by adding high levels of both Carbon and Nickel which penetrate the steels structure thus giving the Damascus look to your gun or knife.

A box of 10 tablets is enough to do 2 guns or up to 20 knives.

Anyone interested ???

Davy

EDIT

Meant to say I can offer this pretty cheap to forum members, if you guys wanted to organize a Group Buy

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

Smokeyskelton wrote: »

I was thinking about something similar with celtic knotwork, but on a flat pommel. It might look a little odd, but it might be possible to do a hybrid full tapered tang with the end ground down to a stick tang and peened over after the pommel has been fitted, that would also be possible for something shaped like Double Barrel's example.

Smokeyskelton

Folks I think this is a goer. It's a great idea and will be unique. The possibilities are fairly limited But that being said it is possible.

Well done Mate

Davy

Double Barrel

Maybe, I don't know yet.

Hi Davy
I will take ALL that Instant Damascus stuff you can get your hands on.
BTW does it require distilled water to activate that stuff or is the mineral rich tap water allright?

Hibrion

Maybe, I don't know yet.

Hi Davy,

Whats the retail on those magic tablets:D

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

Smokeyskelton

Maybe, I don't know yet.

I LOLed

I thought you were taking the mick with the tablets originally, but I still didn't cop on about the date:o. Nice one.

Glad you think the idea about the hybrid tang would work, I thought it might, but as I don't have the experience it was good to hear a professional opinion.

Smokeyskelton

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

Lads just to give you a geads up on a new Poll starting soon and let ye get thinking Before Voting this time around

What we are voting on will be the material to be used for the fixtures and fittings. The finger Guard, Pommel and handle pins.

The choices will be.

• Brass
• Copper
• Nickel Silver
• Stainless Steel
• Wood
• Horn or Antler

Davy

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

Would I be right in saying that at this stage most people can visualize the finished knife or at least 80% of it.

If you think back to the very first time you read the opening thread and the first time you thought about this project,

How different is the knife in your head now compared to what you visualized back then ?

Is it better or worse ?

and Why is this the case ?

If you could rewind and vote differently on just one topic ....
Would you ?
Which topic ?
and Why?

Double Barrel

Maybe, I don't know yet.

Smokey,

Great idea grinding the end of the tang. The light is on and someone is home.


Davy

Can we add bronze and leather to the list.

A question of aesthetics: is there an interest in having a blade with a rustic look as in a hand hammered .... peened surface ?

lordarpad

Maybe, I don't know yet.

Double Barrel wrote: »

Smokey,

Great idea grinding the end of the tang. The light is on and someone is home.


Davy

Can we add bronze and leather to the list.

A question of aesthetics: is there an interest in having a blade with a rustic look as in a hand hammered .... peened surface ?

I second the material additions, but would say that this kind of surface would jar with the layered steel. For a version that uses a plainer steel, I'm all for it.

Double Barrel

Maybe, I don't know yet.

A less busy - simpler design.
Bronze Disc with La Téne decoration. C.500 BC - 400AD, National Museum of Ireland.

davymoore

Yes, Sat 22nd only

I've added bronze to the poll request lads

Just to clarify the vote is on the main component only

Leather spacers etc can be added later if you wish.

And again great idea Smokey

Double Barrel

Maybe, I don't know yet.

"but would say that this kind of surface would jar with the layered steel."



I am not sure but think Davy receives a rough piece of steel and has to work it. Davy?

Offy

davymoore wrote: »

Would I be right in saying that at this stage most people can visualize the finished knife or at least 80% of it.
If you think back to the very first time you read the opening thread and the first time you thought about this project,
How different is the knife in your head now compared to what you visualized back then ?
Is it better or worse ?
and Why is this the case ?
If you could rewind and vote differently on just one topic ....
Would you ?
Which topic ?
and Why?

Im not sure now or when this project started what the knife will look like when complete so its hard to say if my vision of it has changed. If I could go back and vote differently on one topic I would vote for a hidden than rather than a full tang but only because of the pommel issue.

As for the materials to be used on the pommel, finger guard and pins I pick copper for two reasons, firstly all the other materials are brighter than copper and could alert an animal to the hunters presence and secondly because Davy previously stated he had a preference for copper due to the way it ages and I think as Davy is leading this project he should have something in the knife that is of his choosing. For the handle I pick wood because I prefer the feel of wood to horn or antler.

Smokeyskelton

Maybe, I don't know yet.

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the praise on the tang issue, my head's expanding as I type.

I'd agree with Double Barrel that bronze could be added to the list. That shield he posted was exactly the kind of pommel I was thinking of, well found.
It would be a good material as it is a dark non-shiny metal with a traditional feel, and the Celtic spirals fulfil the "Irish" brief (let's not get into whether the Irish are actually Celtic or not - they certainly used the spiral / knotwork motif).

One thing to remember is to try and keep it fairly simple i.e. not too many materials, but there could be scope for spacers in a totally different material e.g. antler / horn etc. With this in mind I know the pins / corby bolts are usually either brass or stainless steel. I'd probably either go with stainless for everything i.e. finger guard, pommel and pins, or else bronze with brass pins if bronze can't be used for pins. Was it Offy who posted about the difficulties of using non-compatible metals, perhaps they could comment on this? Mosaic pins are another option, do people think they are too fancy for a user knife? Using steel fittings would also fit in with the peened tang more than copper etc, but that's not necessarily a problem.
For a hammered finish on the blade, I'm not too sure. It would look great on a plain steel, but would it take away from the layered look of the steel chosen?

Davy, if you have a sample of the steel would it be possible to take a picture of various metals/materials next to it? I know that's hassle and it is notoriously hard to get the colours true in a photo, but it might help us decide, I know I'm having trouble visualising this. If you don't have samples of all the materials don't worry about it. Again, I know how much work you are putting into this, so I don't want to add to your load.

I appreciate that Davy has showed a preference for copper. I'm just not sure how the patina develops, or how hard copper is. If it's tough enough and the patina develops evenly I'm happy enough to go with that. I have a vague memory of having something copper getting green stains on it in the past, but I may be wrong.

In terms of how the project has developed, I think it's gone pretty well.
I think the length and steel look good as does the pathfinder profile. I would have gone for hollow ground more on aesthetic grounds than anything else, but the pathfinder profile lifts the design, so flat ground should look good as well as being practical.

In terms of handle material I had thought of blackthorn wood for the handle for an Irish connection due the the shillelagh (others might think this "Oirish" rather than Irish), but the second elm sample looks good.
I think for a fancier handle the hidden tang would have been better i.e. gives the maker more options, but for a more simple knife full tapered tang is a good choice. We seem to be doing a bit of a hybrid here, this could be a good thing if you want a distinctive look.

Good God, I've typed a lot in this post. It's amazing how much there is to think about! One step at a time.