What do you make of Jesus Christ?

Rev. Kitchen · 10-02-2009 2:30pm

sHnaCk wrote: »

Please explain or catagorise the corruption that you are referring to. Thanks

Well no these threads allways get dragged off topic and im not going to be drawn into a silly no end in sight back and forth about how corrupt the church is/isnt but if you really dont know about the sex, the money, the slavery etc then it would take too long to go through it all.

sHnaCk · 10-02-2009 3:18pm

Wicknight wrote: »

If you are around these parts long enough you eventually realise a simple conclusion - They don't know

The teaching of the Trinity is an attempt by Christians to marry what the Old Testament says (God is One) with the teachings of the New Testament which suggest Jesus and God are the same "thing" (for want of a better word).

This is never explained properly in the New Testament, Jesus simply refers to himself, some what abstractly, as being the same as God.

Some have argued that Christians have it wrong, Jesus is not saying he is God, simply that by following him the people are actually following God. Or something. Have fun debating that one with the Christians.

But ultimately it is just words, without any proper understanding. It is like someone writing down

Jake was the daughter of Mary. He was the son of Mary.

A valid question would be how can Jake be the son and daughter of Mary at the same time, and if all you ever get in answer to that question is a different version of "Jake was the daughter of Mary. He was the son of Mary", that is not going to be very satisfactory, nor does it lead one to believe that the person claiming it actually understands it either.

Read this http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/05/a_brief_explanation_of_the_tri.html and educate yourself. that way you no longer have to be left in the dark. please excuse the inadvertant pun. as for the marriage of the trinity in new/old testament. the trinity, explained to your satisfaction or not, exists in both new and old. if you understand the essence of love you will have a better grasp of the trinity relationship.

sHnaCk · 10-02-2009 3:24pm

Rev. Kitchen wrote: »

Well no these threads allways get dragged off topic and im not going to be drawn into a silly no end in sight back and forth about how corrupt the church is/isnt but if you really dont know about the sex, the money, the slavery etc then it would take too long to go through it all.

fair comment. i am assuming of course that the church to you is the holy catholic church. yes? ever heard of replacement thoelogy? if you have an understanding of this theology it would allow you to seperate the catholic church as a building, function and religion from the body of Christ which is the church. as i said, it would be helpful to understand the theology first as you are currently mis/uninformed.

EskimoErased · 10-02-2009 11:33pm

A carpenter with multiple personality disorder...what a protagonist, I'm in awe of whoever came up with that 'un.

CiaranC · 10-02-2009 11:38pm

Dunno why yous are all so hard on that Jesus lad. All he said was maybe we should be nice to each other. Then they nailed him to a tree for his trouble.

Zombrex · 11-02-2009 12:11am

sHnaCk wrote: »

Read this http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/05/a_brief_explanation_of_the_tri.html and educate yourself.

Ok.

Firstly that article doesn't explain it. In fact it devotes 4 paragraphs to stating that the Trinity is very difficult to explain and then just references Augustine's analogy of the lover, the love and the beloved, which I am aware of and find wholly unsatisfactory. It also uses it in a way Augustine did not mean it to be used.

Secondly, it is far better on Boards.ie to try and explain something yourself (if you understand it) that simply sending people off to read articles some where else. It leads to the conclusion that the poster himself (herself?) doesn't understand the topic and question and is simply trying to deflect attention from that.

Thirdly, sending me to a right wing nut job website (give you the benefit of the doubt that you just typed "trinity" into Google and ignored the Matrix fan sites) is not a very good idea. I probably wouldn't trust the American Thinker even if it did provide an answer. The anti-Muslim ranting was particularly cheerful.

sHnaCk wrote: »

if you understand the essence of love you will have a better grasp of the trinity relationship.

Except that is more nonsense because "love" is an abstract emotion, rather than a functioning thing. It explains the Trinity (which is actually supposed to be a thing) in the same way that an analogy of varying degrees of annoyance help explains how a toaster works.

fitz0 · 11-02-2009 1:10am

The anti-Obama article on that americanthinker site is quite the piece of impartial journalism too. quality stuff.

Húrin · 11-02-2009 4:48am

CiaranC wrote: »

Dunno why yous are all so hard on that Jesus lad. All he said was maybe we should be nice to each other. Then they nailed him to a tree for his trouble.

Well it was a bit more assertive than that. More like "be nice to each other, be nice to God, who is speaking to you, and if you don't, you'll be condemned at the day of judgement ...for all authority has been given to me.... your choice"

He wasn't just some ancient Jewish nice guy.

kiffer · 11-02-2009 8:35am

Húrin wrote: »

Well it was a bit more assertive than that. More like "be nice to each other, be nice to God, who is speaking to you, and if you don't, you'll be condemned at the day of judgement ...for all authority has been given to me.... your choice"

He wasn't just some ancient Jewish nice guy.

Yeah, when you put it like that he doesn't sound like all that nice of a guy...

"Do what I want* or my boss will have you tortured at some point in the future. The Don told me to tell you this; I speak for him, no, in fact I am him."

*believe in me and some other 'stuff'... Much of which is good stuff and makes sense, some of which is not and does not.

EskimoErased · 11-02-2009 1:41pm

sukikettle wrote: »

I suspect what you really wanted was to get on a thread and maul the notion of Jesus Christ.

Well this is the Atheism and Agnosticism forum, what did you expect?

Money Shot · 13-02-2009 5:09pm

Vampireskiss wrote: »

Why don't you prove your statement that God doesn't exist first? I can't prove my beliefs no more than you can prove yours but if you can make bold statements such as God doesn't exist then so can I about mine

Still waiting. As mentioned, burden of proof is on the person making the positive and fanciful (to say the least) claim.

I think it would be a simple exercise to prove the bible should not be taken literally. Raising from the dead, parting seas, curing lepers. You can believe what you want - I literally don't care, but if you want to live your life in blind faith, I think it's closed minded and sad. Why do you want to believe it so badly ? What if you are wrong ? Could you be wrong ?

Blind faith and fundamentalism has caused so much hurt in the world. Let's face it, someone has got it wrong and a lot of people are going to hell because they were born in a certain country or into a certain belief system.

We don't need organised religion anymore. It served a purpose at a point in our evolution when we didn't understand the world and the universe. Some people just can't except that we aren't here for some great purpose - we are somehow different to cows, ants and meercats. Science and society has come a long way and most people in the western world have come to terms with the fact that we are actually like other creatures that die and we have to make the most of the time we have. Life is too short to dedicate your life to some random text.

bnt · 13-02-2009 7:27pm

What do I make of Jesus? Well, after 2000+ years of hair growth, at a typical rate of 6 inches a year... you could knit socks for a few Israeli army soldiers, at least.

I don't have a problem with the possibility that someone of that sort of name was around that part of the world, around that time. Mere historical existence doesn't explain or justify the tall tales that have since sprung up around the character that is now called "Jesus".

dlofnep · 13-02-2009 7:29pm

I believe he existed. I don't in the supernatural stuff however.

dyl10 · 13-02-2009 7:39pm

If a time machine was ever invented, I'd put my money on it being destroyed by fundamentalists before it ever got put into use :pac:

anonymous_joe · 13-02-2009 7:39pm

Hmmm.

Jesus did more to change the world than almost anyone else.

A lot of values we have relating to treating human beings positively, and of the individual having worth, love thy neighbour etc are crucial aspects of our culture, which would have been spread by Christian behaviour. So he achieved that aim at least.

MatthewVII · 13-02-2009 8:09pm

anonymous_joe wrote: »

A lot of values we have relating to treating human beings positively, and of the individual having worth, love thy neighbour etc are crucial aspects of our culture, which would have been spread by Christian behaviour. So he achieved that aim at least.

To be honest, I reckon that this kind of morality is ingrained in populations. Jesus simply put his name on it and claimed it as his.

MrPudding · 13-02-2009 11:07pm

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Hmmm.

Jesus did more to change the world than almost anyone else.

A lot of values we have relating to treating human beings positively, and of the individual having worth, love thy neighbour etc are crucial aspects of our culture, which would have been spread by Christian behaviour. So he achieved that aim at least.

Those ideas were in play long before Jesus appeared on the scene. You do realise that humans managed to survive for a lon long time before he was born than, don't you?

MrP

dyl10 · 14-02-2009 2:38am

MrPudding wrote: »

Those ideas were in play long before Jesus appeared on the scene. You do realise that humans managed to survive for a lon long time before he was born than, don't you?

MrP

Yeh, but we were living as indignant dogs. That's why we needed Jesus to come save us

anonymous_joe · 14-02-2009 2:49am

MrPudding wrote: »

Those ideas were in play long before Jesus appeared on the scene. You do realise that humans managed to survive for a lon long time before he was born than, don't you?

MrP

Duh. I'm not a moron. ^^

14-02-2009 3:01am

dyl10 wrote: »

Yeh, but we were living as indignant dogs. That's why we needed Jesus to come save us

Oh that Jesus!

Money Shot · 17-02-2009 10:05am

dyl10 wrote: »

Yeh, but we were living as indignant dogs. That's why we needed Jesus to come save us

Yeh, and we've been so civilised in the last 2009 years - there haven't been any world wars, genicide or any such immoral behaviour.

MrPudding · 17-02-2009 10:14am

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Duh. I'm not a moron. ^^

I don't believe I said you were, though now I am seriously considering it.

MrP

pipeliner · 17-02-2009 10:31am

i believe that he existed and at the time he had a few followers but like when a great footballer retires, people look back with rose tinted glasses and think nobody will match him. In this case it was the christians who then gained power and bullied everybody to believe what they believe

the_syco · 17-02-2009 10:53am

I AM TEH NOO JEYSUS!!!one!!1!!! I no proof, but as the lads will forget all the sins I did (so that they can fit it al in one pocket sized book), and I'll look the 1337 d00d most awesome.

dyl10 wrote:

If a time machine was ever invented, I'd put my money on it being destroyed by fundamentalists before it ever got put into use

No, you'd make it back, find there's no Jesus, go back to your timemachine, see that the uranium is depleted, and decide to have a great ole time, turning water to wine, cure the sick with your devices, get bored, fake your own death, freak out the locals for 3 days, before someone kills you so that you support some fairytale.

=-=

I'd have more fate in something like Bill & Ted being real than Jesus. At least there are less plot holes

What do you make of Jesus Christ?

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