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Atheism is "cool"

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    #92
    STBR
    Registered Users Posts: 442 ✭✭STBR


    Dades wrote: »
    Suki, most of us are ex-Christians, who now have an honest belief that gods (including yours) don't exist. By honest belief I mean one where we don't believe something for fear of not believing it, but because it's what a thought process has concluded to be the case.

    The idea that your omnipotent benevolent God has no choice but to send people who don't believe he exists to a hell of eternal torment is worthy of nothing but a chuckle. The threat (which is what it is) holds as much fear for an atheist as an Indonesian tribesman shaking a feathered stick at them.

    Agree 100%.

    I'm 15 and I'm an ex-Christian.
    I began as one because that is the way that I was brought up and almost everybody in my class/school was also one - So I knew no better.

    But a couple of years ago I really began to think about it; realised it was false; and stopped believing in it.

    And I have realised since, that now that I am in 4th year in secondary school - Not one single person in my class say that they believe in a 'God'.

    Even my parents don't believe in a 'God' of any sort now.
    So something [brilliant] must have happened in the last decade. :pac:

    I now consider myself a Rationalist, and I've never been more content with my beliefs.

    The fact that I used to believe that there was an invisible man thousands of years old watching me all the time was a little more than unnerving - The fact that Santa was doing the same thing was enough!

    But the fact of the matter is that I can really see a lot of progress coming about regarding the disbelief in deities and of course this uptrend on the chart will continue in our favour! :D


    As regards quoted post - That is an extremely pleasing description!
    I am going to use that as an example in discussions from now on if you don't mind!

    I mean it is so true; every word of it.

    You can clearly tell that it wasn't invented in the past few centuries at least - Because if something baring the same genre of threats was invented nowadays, it would be laughed at.


    P.s. Love the Indonesian Tribesman example! Hahaha.


    EDIT: To the OP.

    I agree that it is SEEN as becoming a trend nowadays, but I believe that this is mainly because so many people are finally realising religions' falsenesses around the same time.
    Kind of like a revolution in my eyes.

    Of course, I won't act idiotic and say that this is happening to EVERY person - there are of course some that just follow the crowd. But these are in the minority.

    In comparison to religions' followers of which the majority are following a crowd.


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    #93
    Skadi
    Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭Skadi


    sukikettle wrote: »
    I don't follow God in case of hell. Hell is not a big stick He uses to beat up humanity. He has no alternative but to send you there if you reject Him because rejecting Him leaves only one alternative you are Satan's and to the awful abode created for him originally you will go. So your belief hell is a threat if you don't get with God is a bent lie. He has no choice when you reject yours

    Surely if there was some kind of god, it would be your deeds and morals on earth that would count and not whether you were one of the lucky people who stumbled upon the real god(s).

    Do you not worry that you might have chosen the wrong god, and despite all your good intentions on this earth you may end up being banished.


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    #94
    Skadi
    Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭Skadi


    SirDarren wrote: »

    I agree that it is SEEN as becoming a trend nowadays, but I believe that this is mainly because so many people are finally realising religions' falsenesses around the same time.
    Kind of like a revolution in my eyes.

    Of course, I won't act idiotic and say that this is happening to EVERY person - there are of course some that just follow the crowd. But these are in the minority.

    In comparison to religions' followers of which the majority are following a crowd.

    The old idea that somehow athestics are highly intelligent individuals who think for themselves where as religious followers are just sheep and un-questioning? :rolleyes:

    I think we are seeing a change where many people declare themselves not christian, call themselves atheists without taking time to ponder further what they believe in.

    Maybe it is the growing from childhood in adulthood. Where you leave your imagination behind and choose the more serious and time-consuming problems of life.


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    #95
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    sukikettle wrote: »
    I don't follow God in case of hell. Hell is not a big stick He uses to beat up humanity. He has no alternative but to send you there if you reject Him because rejecting Him leaves only one alternative you are Satan's and to the awful abode created for him originally you will go. So your belief hell is a threat if you don't get with God is a bent lie. He has no choice when you reject yours

    Funny an all powerful omnipotent deity would have "no choice" but to do something horrible.

    Where is the religion that says all followers go to heaven and all those who don't follow or don't believe go to the Bahamas for eternity or sipping cocktails and watching bikinis. That is a religion I would choose to reject! :pac:


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    #96
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    LZ5by5 wrote: »
    Fence sitter?

    Basically I was only referring to those who call themselves agnostics (as opposed to atheists) purely so they don't have to bother explaining themselves.
    velocirafter wrote: »
    how can you have a relationship with someone you cant see and doesn't respond in any way other than extremely random and obscure ways that are open to interpretation.

    You've never been in a long distance relationship, have you?
    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    Society is such now that we dont have to pretend to believe in something that we dont really...

    Exactly.


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    #97
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Basically I was only referring to those who call themselves agnostics (as opposed to atheists) purely so they don't have to bother explaining themselves.

    Mind you though I can understand why one would be an agnostic over being an atheist. If you do not know something perhaps it would seem better to you not to take a position, or to keep open in relation to God's existence.


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    #98
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Mind you though I can understand why one would be an agnostic over being an atheist. If you do not know something perhaps it would seem better to you not to take a position, or to keep open in relation to God's existence.

    An atheist, well at least any rational and well informed one, would never say that there is absolutely no probability of there being a God. Atheism is a strict form of agnosticism; an atheist has to be agnositic to the idea of a God, but they're agnostic to the idea of a God in the same way that they're agnostic to the idea of the FSM or Russell's teapot, or an infinite amount of other imaginary creatures.


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    #99
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Yes, that would be somewhat valid if Christianity did not have any other form of indication for God's existence, or study in several fields behind it. Dealing with things like the FSM, and Russell's teapot don't deal with the great deal of work that academia has done on the Biblical texts, archaeology and history that support events in the Biblical text, philosophical arguments for God's existence and so on.

    Whereas agnosticism is very close to the actual objective stance which is there is no conclusive proof for there being a God or not.


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    #100
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    sukikettle wrote: »
    predestination means not everyone is destined to be saved and it possibly means you and judging by your comment you're not particularly worried anyway

    Ok so if you are a calvinist you are ****ed if you're catholic you're ok?


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    #101
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Yes, that would be somewhat valid if Christianity did not have any other form of indication for God's existence, or study in several fields behind it. Dealing with things like the FSM, and Russell's teapot don't deal with the great deal of work that academia has done on the Biblical texts, archaeology and history that support events in the Biblical text, philosophical arguments for God's existence and so on.

    And don't you know, over in the East, I could bet that Hindus are saying the exact same thing as you just said. And, they probably have as much conclusive evidence to back up their statements as you have to back up yours.

    But, this isn't the place for that debate.
    Jakkass wrote: »
    Whereas agnosticism is very close to the actual objective stance which is there is no conclusive proof for there being a God or not.

    Just because there isn't any conclusive proof either way, doesn't mean that the probability lies any way near 50%. Anyway, as I've outlined in my previous post, atheism should be considered a form of agnosticism.


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    #102
    Handsome Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    sHnaCk wrote: »
    So you believe, it is just that you choose to reject eh? however, predestination comes into play which immidiately makes your rejection null and void. You cannot reject if you have not YET been chosen; because it is His will that all come to Christ...

    also... love without faith is nothing

    Predestination? Tell me exactly how predestination comes into play when you simply love yourself?


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    #103
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Mind you though I can understand why one would be an agnostic over being an atheist. If you do not know something perhaps it would seem better to you not to take a position, or to keep open in relation to God's existence.

    Yes, although that is aside from the point I was making.
    I was specifically referring to those atheists who when in public call themselves agnostics just to avoid confrontation. (I should know, i used to be one)


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    #104
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    -JammyDodger- wrote: »
    It seems to happen in every thread I've read, no matter what the topic was to begin with:pac:

    you could always bring it back on topic by explaining how you think these kids actually do believe in god and are not atheists.


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    #105
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    -JammyDodger- wrote: »
    I mean, I'm repeating my living cert now, so I'm a bit older than the others in my year
    LOL - so you're 18/19 as opposed to 17/18... ;)
    And when asked why, they just give stupid reasons like "believing in God is stupid!", backed up with no reason why it's apparently so stupid. Have any of you experienced this? Has atheism become the new "cool" thing? Or is it meerly isolated to my school:pac:
    Anything anti establishment has been considered "cool" by teenagers for decades, it's not just something that's emerged in the last year or two...

    Of course there's nothing remotely rebellious or interesting about going against the establishment... what's far more going against the grain in this day and age, is to be conservative, Christian, to marry very young, etc. I hear constant whinges of "people only support Palestine because it's cool". Yeah right. It's the most non subversive thing a person in, at least Western Europe, could do... far more unusual for younger people to back the Israelis.


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    #106
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Dudess wrote: »
    LOL - so you're 18/19 as opposed to 17/18... ;)

    That's irrelevant! I don't really know why I even mentioned it in the post as it doesn't matter with regards to my question. I suppose I it said because when I was in 5th year myself, I was the only atheist (there possibly were others, but I was the only one that actually said I was and had no shame in doing so). But now, in the year under me (current 5th years), I personally know of 6 outspoken atheists. So, it appears in two years things have progressed.
    Dudess wrote: »
    Anything anti establishment has been considered "cool" by teenagers for decades, it's not just something that's emerged in the last year or two...

    Of course anything anti-establishment has always been considered cool; but I know, in my area anyway, that public admittance of atheism has always been quite rare, and only in the last year or two have I seen it happen more.


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    #107
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Dudess wrote: »
    Of course there's nothing remotely rebellious or interesting about going against the establishment... what's far more going against the grain in this day and age, is to be conservative, Christian, to marry very young, etc. I hear constant whinges of "people only support Palestine because it's cool". Yeah right. It's the most non subversive thing a person in, at least Western Europe, could do... far more unusual for younger people to back the Israelis.

    Right... but explain this. Why are more conservative religions becoming more popular amongst youth? This is particularly the case amongst Muslims and Evangelical Christians, actually I'd say it's true for any real conservative leaning faith.

    Perhaps this isn't the case in Ireland, but from what I've seen of Evangelical churches it is true here as well.


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    #108
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Right... but explain this. Why are more conservative religions becoming more popular amongst youth? This is particularly the case amongst Muslims and Evangelical Christians, actually I'd say it's true for any real conservative leaning faith.

    Simple, as Dudess said being anti-establishment is too mainstream these days. If you really want to ruffle some feathers you go conservative, 'old-skool' if you will.


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    #109
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    How is that anti-establishment though? Unless you mean that people are becoming more and more conservative in their faith in order to stand out from others?

    Mind you she does have a point about marriage. Although you can see a difference between how youth regard marriage in the US and over here. Over here people would wait much longer, but in the US they marry much younger.


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    #110
    studiorat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Right... but explain this. Why are more conservative religions becoming more popular amongst youth? This is particularly the case amongst Muslims and Evangelical Christians, actually I'd say it's true for any real conservative leaning faith.

    I asked a nun a while ago as to why the numbers in her order were decreasing. Just polite talk, I wasn't trying to convert her honest!!
    Anyway she reckoned it was because it was easier these days to be a nun and some of the challenge to leading a life in that way had gone. I suppose the same could be said for the rise in the more conservative sects.

    You have to just look at the "Straight Edge" movement to see the reasoning behind this.

    And just in case you aren't hip to the kids straight edge


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    #111
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Jakkass wrote: »
    How is that anti-establishment though? Unless you mean that people are becoming more and more conservative in their faith in order to stand out from others?

    That's exactly what I meant.
    Well, some people anyway.


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    #112
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    It's not anti establishment seeing as religion is part of the establishment, but it is going against a grain.


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    #113
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Galvasean wrote: »
    That's exactly what I meant.
    Well, some people anyway.

    I wouldn't say it's exactly like that, or that the primary motive of many young people who are staying in Christianity is to just stand out. However most that I do know do identify strongly with it, I think I would say it's a part of who I am anyway, but that isn't the reason why I would say it was appealing to me.


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    #114
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Jakkass wrote: »
    I wouldn't say it's exactly like that, or that the primary motive of many young people who are staying in Christianity is to just stand out.
    I don't think that either - I would be surprised if there wasn't sincerity behind it. However, it is still going against a grain - I mean that in an admirable sense. Those teens must have to deal with a lot of ridicule.

    I do think there are some people who take a conservative stance though just to get attention - e.g. people who back Israel, Irish people being unionists, people supporting Bush, people denying climate change and being generally anti environmentalist.


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    #115
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Backing Israel isn't correlative with being a Christian. I know many who would be critical of Israel too. However I'd be a moderate on the Israel - Palestine issue, i.e I see that Hamas and militants are also at fault and Israel shouldn't be the only one to blame, but blame is due to it too. I was very much pro-Palestinian a year or two ago.

    As for Irish people being Unionists indeed that isn't very common. I'm not very nationalistic really, but going unionist is a bit of the flipside :)

    Denying climate change, I've had my skeptical moments but I still think it's a worthy cause :D

    I guess the poignant question is where does atheism fit into this? Is this also a means of defining yourself in the same kind of way?

    It sounds to me that anything that deviates from the norm is somewhat defining in people.


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    #116
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jakkass wrote: »
    I guess the poignant question is where does atheism fit into this? Is this also a means of defining yourself in the same kind of way?

    It sounds to me that anything that deviates from the norm is somewhat defining in people.

    I think that quite a few people feign to be atheists because atheism has connotations with intelligence and rationality (That's not my own opinion, but, I don't think anyone can doubt that it has connotations like that. Especially with people like Dawkins and the Hitch promoting it all the time, I think they give off that image). I've no doubt that many younger people become atheists just because it's anti-establishment. It won't be long until some people become fundamentalist atheists (they're probably already around), just to go against the grain, almost like anti-theists!


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    #117
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Well I doubt that it has connotations like that, but most atheists won't deny that it has those connotations so I assume you are correct if you take it in that respect. I think that rational knowledge is only a very small part of what knowledge is in general (we should take empirical knowledge into account as scientific experiments can be rationalised but the results are acheived by experience). Just my two cents but the words "rational" and "logical" are abused by atheists to make it seem they have a monopoly on them.

    As for anti-theist I think there are a few around already.


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    #118
    sukikettle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭sukikettle


    I'd like to ask a question and be honest...do any of you 100% not believe in God...like not a single grain of you wonders


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    #119
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    sukikettle wrote: »
    I'd like to ask a question and be honest...do any of you 100% not believe in God...like not a single grain of you wonders

    I'm somewhere around 99.999% I'd say. Of course I could never be 100% sure he doesn't; in the same way I could never be 100% sure goblins or fairys don't.


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    #120
    MatthewVII
    Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭MatthewVII


    sukikettle wrote: »
    I'd like to ask a question and be honest...do any of you 100% not believe in God...like not a single grain of you wonders

    Yup, i 100% disbelieve in god. i know he doesn't exist. That's why I'm an atheist.


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    #121
    docdolittle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,026 ✭✭✭docdolittle


    I don't sukikettle, I stopped believing when I was about 12 just around my confirmation and never really did again. People I know are actually suddenly becoming really religious again... There only about 21 too :eek: I just found that really weird


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