Atheism is "cool"

Is it just me, or has atheism become "cool" in the last year or two? I mean, I'm repeating my living cert now, so I'm a bit older than the others in my year, but many of them consider themselves atheists. And when asked why, they just give stupid reasons like "believing in God is stupid!", backed up with no reason why it's apparently so stupid. Have any of you experienced this? Has atheism become the new "cool" thing? Or is it meerly isolated to my school:pac:

Dades

Atheism isn't anything but a disbelief!

However you can't change how teenagers perceive it. Like any contrary stance it will appeal to young 'rebels'.

As long as it's based on a thought process and not an image, it matters not I guess.

Húrin

That's because a lot of people have bought into the hype of Richard Dawkins' image as an irrefutible intellectual authority on the God question.

pH

Húrin wrote: »

That's because a lot of people have bought into the hype of Richard Dawkins' image as an irrefutible intellectual authority on the God question.

Yea, cos Irish teenagers naturally buy into what they're told by English biology professors in their sixties. Teenagers take most things these people say as irrefutable, specially in the areas of religion, music, sex and fashion.

Húrin

pH wrote: »

Yea, cos Irish teenagers naturally buy into what they're told by English biology professors in their sixties. Teenagers take most things these people say as irrefutable, specially in the areas of religion, music, sex and fashion.

Good point, that's another thing; the image of God that they are familiar with is profoundly unattractive.

Fighting Irish

Its not "cool"

Its "FOOKING GREAT" that people are finally copping on

velocirafter

That's exactly what atheism needs, a bit of mainstream publicity and promotion.

If there is a large base of people claiming to be atheistic, whether they can back their arguments up or not,(not that you should really have to back up an argument of disbelief) then its a social demographic that needs to be listened to.

maybe there should be a campaign to get all these atheists officially excommunicated from the church so that the church can't claim that they have however many followers in the country. Am I getting a little to hardline on the issue?

studiorat

:cool::cool::cool:

Húrin wrote: »

That's because a lot of people have bought into the hype of Richard Dawkins' image as an irrefutible intellectual authority on the God question.

there has been a rise in the popularity of atheistic literature lately and I think it probably serves to confirm a few things for some people. In some of these the authors manage to put into words how a lot of atheists feel about evolution and moral and ethical values quite simply. I'd say are good introduction into further reading on a number of subjects. However, I don't think they serve to "convert people into atheists". Most atheists already know and feel that there is no god, just like theists think there is one.

velocirafter

velocirafter wrote: »

maybe there should be a campaign to get all these atheists officially excommunicated from the church so that the church can't claim that they have however many followers in the country. Am I getting a little to hardline on the issue?

In a few days of somewhat foolishness, and a dare from a friend who didn't believe me to be an atheist, I wrote a letter requesting excommunication. It was 9,000 words long, and was probably more like a thesis than a letter! I outlined every single problem that I had with the church, then every problem I had with religion, then why I didn't feel the need for religion. I commited acts in the letter that broke 3 of the cardinal laws, wish technically result in excommunication. I then posted it to my local priest, who never responded. This was over a year ago. I thought he would of at least had the courtesy to acknowledge it's delivery. To this day I wonder should I forward a copy to the local Bishop, but, I don't think there's much point.

brianthebard

I think you should've aimed higher dude, cardinal at least, or pope. Not sure a priest can excommunicate you anymore.

Call Me Jimmy

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Is it just me, or has atheism become "cool" in the last year or two? I mean, I'm repeating my living cert now, so I'm a bit older than the others in my year, but many of them consider themselves atheists. And when asked why, they just give stupid reasons like "believing in God is stupid!", backed up with no reason why it's apparently so stupid.

If I walked up to you in the street screaming "GET DOWN ON YOUR KNEES, YOU MUST BE ON YOUR KNEES WHILE THE SIRE BRINGS LIGHT TO OUR WORLD", and you said "don't be stupid", would that be a stupid reason for not believing in the Sire? Would you just be trying to be cool by denying the obvious existence of the Great Sire of Boomdom.

brianthebard

brianthebard wrote: »

I think you should've aimed higher dude, cardinal at least, or pope. Not sure a priest can excommunicate you anymore.

But I asked him to forward it on the relevent person, to get the balling rolling. He just ignored me though!:pac:

CerebralCortex

Húrin wrote: »

That's because a lot of people have bought into the hype of Richard Dawkins' image as an irrefutible intellectual authority on the God question.

Its funny how he had nothing to do with my path to a CerebralCortex with vanilla mind software

velocirafter

could you post it up here, I like the idea of it but I fear I lack the motivation and the articulacy to really follow it through...I'm more of a bullet point man and I would really want to make the parish priest struggle through it to make up for all those gospels and sermons I've had to sit through.

Pride Fighter

Young people wear T-shirts of Che Guevarra and claim to be liberal, socialist and progressive. They end up being the most conservative old croons in old age voting for FF or FG. The same is probably true of religion, but we would have to wait a few years to see if this is true as atheism is only 'in' with the proliferation of sex abuse scandals and increase in anti-church media.

velocirafter

maybe its just because i'm a genuine athiest but I find it very hard to see how anyone who has converted to athiesm could switch back. Unless they just end up going through the religious motions for the sake whatever social pressures are around them

anladmór

whats wrong with wearing a che t-shirt?

eoin5

Its just a fashion, like it was cool to support anarchism back in the days of the Reclaim the Streets Garda freeforall. I dont think its at those dizzy heights just yet though. We need to do mad stuff like pin to every house of worships door a critique of that religion by another religion. The first person to pin this to a Mosque gets a bosco badge

toiletduck

Atheism isn't "cool", however I am :cool:

lostexpectation

do you think they are atheists JD, do they beleive in god?

Charlie3dan

anladmór wrote: »

whats wrong with wearing a che t-shirt?

Now you mention it. Was reading up on Che a bit the other day and found this on Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara

Moreover, Guevara has ironically been subsumed by the capitalist consumer culture he despised. The primary variable of this phenomenon has been a high-contrast monochrome graphic of his face, which has become one of the world's most universally merchandized images, found on an endless array of items including: t-shirts, hats, posters, tattoos, and even bikinis. Yet, Guevara also remains an iconic figure both in specifically political contexts and as a wide-ranging popular icon of youthful rebellion.

Whether being atheist is cool or not? I'm sure there are a small demeographic that think anything that's anti-establishment is cool
(bunch of Che T-shirt wearing feckers ). However, I still find saying you are an atheist can still provoke many very different responses from different people within a group.

Dades

There'll be a lot more Ché stuff around when that Benicio Del Toro movie comes out.

partyguinness

That is something I ve wanted to do for awhile...officially leave the Catholic Church...I am not religious and have no time for it..I dont believe in God/Satan..and all that jazz.

Of course I was put throught the whole Baptism, Communion, Confirmation craic...so how do I now get out??

seamus

Actually, I think there's a fair assumption to say that atheist will tread/is treading a path very similar to vegetarianism.

Vegetarianism was a for a long time seen as the domain of Hindus and extreme hippies. Some people felt (and still feel) that there was something actually wrong with you if you didn't want to eat meat.
The when non-conformism became cool during the 60's, vegetarianism saw a rise in teenagers who wanted to appear radical and different and at the same time piss of their parents.
I think this was something of a turning point for the movement. Although many/most of the people didn't maintain their vegetarianism, it was pulled out of "weirdo" rut that it was in and those who chose to stay vegetarian (and those who joined in later on) were no longer seen as complete freaks.

I imagine atheism is at the moment at that turning point - it is being taken up to a certain extent by teenagers who wish to rebel. Previously, there would have been serious fear of massive repurcussions if you abandoned your faith, but these repurcussions are completely gone now. Teenagers like to rebel, but not so much as to get themselves into trouble, only enough to piss of the adults in their lives.

Many of these atheist teens may or may not return to their religion, but the effect will still last - they will be a generation of kids who accept atheism as a valid standpoint and won't draw any misguided prejudices against those who call themselves atheist. As it is, for much of the older generation, if you say you're an atheist, you may as well grow horns and start riding their underage daughter right in front of them.

seamus

partyguinness wrote: »

Of course I was put throught the whole Baptism, Communion, Confirmation craic...so how do I now get out??

You're already out. Faith is a matter of belief, not a matter of fact or documentation. The only person who can tell you that you're a member of a religion is you.

Simply saying "I am not a Catholic" is sufficient, as being catholic is a state of mind and nothing more.

Dades

partyguinness wrote: »

so how do I now get out??

Strangely, we've had that question before.

Leaving the catholic church, its easier then you think: defecting

Consequences of leaving the catholic church

So...how does one leave the Catholic Church

Dissociation from the church

Do I need to fill out a form?

Resurrect one of these threads if you need to.

t-ha

Unfortunately most people are lazy. They become theists because they're told to/their families are, without researching the background of their religion, seeing where it came from (which often highlights its ridiculousness) and so on. Many people will vehemently defend their religion without knowing almost anything about it. The same laziness may well cause people to switch over to atheism without properly researching why they should be. If the OP's assertion that alot of people are becoming ill-informed atheists is true, it's possible that they might be noting that alot of people who have researched it have become atheist and so that's good enough for them? In short, alot of people in my opinion (despite their objections when questioned) display sheep-type following mentalities.

Normally that's fine, but in the case of atheism I would find it a little disturbing since I tend to put atheism and scientific/rational thinking in the same box together, and would like to think that people who become atheists would also embrace the methods of thinking that require evidence-based conclusions and logical thought.

oshead

partyguinness wrote: »

That is something I ve wanted to do for awhile...officially leave the Catholic Church...I am not religious and have no time for it..I dont believe in God/Satan..and all that jazz.

Of course I was put throught the whole Baptism, Communion, Confirmation craic...so how do I now get out??

Just because you did the whole Baptism, Communion, Confirmation thing dosn't mean you are a Catholic. We lived in a society dominated by Catholicism, you were just following the herd at a time when you had no choice or didn't know better because you were too young. It would be more appropriate to say that you are the son/daughter of a Catholic, or that the only thing happening at the time was to follow the other people and their beliefs. My point being, YOU HAD NO CHOICE.... It is not till you became an adult that your belief, one way or the other, really matters. If you say that you are not religous and have no time for it, then so be it. Good for you.

What is the opposite to "Welcome to the club!". You see, Atheism &\or Agnosticism are most definitely not clubs. I know....... "Welcome to Enlightenment!".

Dave OS

partyguinness

oshead wrote: »

Just because you did the whole Baptism, Communion, Confirmation thing dosn't mean you are a Catholic. We lived in a society dominated by Catholicism, you were just following the herd at a time when you had no choice or didn't know better because you were too young. It would be more appropriate to say that you are the son/daughter of a Catholic, or that the only thing happening at the time was to follow the other people and their beliefs. My point being, YOU HAD NO CHOICE.... It is not till you became an adult that your belief, one way or the other, really matters. If you say that you are not religous and have no time for it, then so be it. Good for you.

What is the opposite to "Welcome to the club!". You see, Atheism &\or Agnosticism are most definitely not clubs. I know....... "Welcome to Enligntenment!".

Dave OS

All part of the Cathoilc policy of 'get them while they are young and dont know any better':)

I actually kicked up a bit of a stink about the confirmation..I said what was the point and I tried to lead a Spartacus type walk out in 6th class against Confirmation. BUt when it came to the crunch the lads left me dangling...:o

Mother told me to fall into line and of course the money was a factor..so I did

Pat Mustard

velocirafter wrote: »

That's exactly what atheism needs, a bit of mainstream publicity and promotion.

If there is a large base of people claiming to be atheistic, whether they can back their arguments up or not,(not that you should really have to back up an argument of disbelief) then its a social demographic that needs to be listened to.

maybe there should be a campaign to get all these atheists officially excommunicated from the church so that the church can't claim that they have however many followers in the country. Am I getting a little to hardline on the issue?

Wouldn't it all be a bit pointless? If you are an atheist, why bother spreading the 'word' or lack thereof? What would it achieve? At best, possibly the speedier demise of organised religion? What atheist or agnostic would care? (I don't mean that in a dismissive sense.)

The Mad Hatter

t-ha wrote: »

in the case of atheism I would find it a little disturbing since I tend to put atheism and scientific/rational thinking in the same box together, and would like to think that people who become atheists would also embrace the methods of thinking that require evidence-based conclusions and logical thought.

I wish people wouldn't, though. I'm an atheist, and have nothing more than a passing interest in the sciences.

pH

t-ha wrote: »

The same laziness may well cause people to switch over to atheism without properly researching why they should be. If the OP's assertion that alot of people are becoming ill-informed atheists is true, it's possible that they might be noting that alot of people who have researched it have become atheist and so that's good enough for them? In short, alot of people in my opinion (despite their objections when questioned) display sheep-type following mentalities.

I take your point that some folks may be atheists through a herd-like mentality, but there is another side to this.

It's been said that "atheism is a religion in the same way as not collecting stamps is a hobby", and much of what you say seems to be equivalent to complaining that:

"Many people aren't collecting stamps, and you know what? They haven't really thought about why they're not collecting stamps, and they're not collecting them for all the wrong reasons!"

studiorat

pH wrote: »

I take your point that some folks may be atheists through a herd-like mentality, but there is another side to this.

It's been said that "atheism is a religion in the same way as not collecting stamps is a hobby", and much of what you say seems to be equivalent to complaining that:

"Many people aren't collecting stamps, and you know what? They haven't really thought about why they're not collecting stamps, and they're not collecting them for all the wrong reasons!"

PH! There's way to many negatives there for me to comprehend. What the hell does that mean? There has to be a catch in there somewhere! Are we cool or not, wot?

Dades

studiorat wrote: »

PH! There's way to many negatives there for me to comprehend. What the hell does that mean? There has to be a catch in there somewhere! Are we cool or not, wot?

LOL!

:cool: = The official smilie of the A&A forum. *


* The above suggestion is a joke. That would be ridiculous.

philologos

Húrin wrote: »

That's because a lot of people have bought into the hype of Richard Dawkins' image as an irrefutible intellectual authority on the God question.

I think it would be more apt to put pseudo before intellectual if we are discussing the contents of the God Delusion. It's also far from irrefutable given the amount of theistic responses to it thus far.

Anyhow, just because something is "cool" doesn't ensure accuracy.

velocirafter

The Mustard wrote: »

Wouldn't it all be a bit pointless? If you are an atheist, why bother spreading the 'word' or lack thereof? What would it achieve? At best, possibly the speedier demise of organised religion? What atheist or agnostic would care? (I don't mean that in a dismissive sense.)

I just don't particularly like being claimed by the catholic church as one of theirs from the paper trail I've left and I figure there is a fairly significant amount of people who have defected who are in a similar boat. If Catholicism cant claim 90% (randomly made up stat) of the population well then the government would have to alter their policies instead of bowing down the religious conservatism.

I feel I'm getting more left wing as this comment goes on, so at the risk of turning communist I'll stop now!:P

apoch632

That 90% though comes down to regardless of belief most Irish people in the republic identify as Catholics. And they put it down on the census like that every time. Or whoever fills out the forms in the house does.

Until people stop doing this the church would be stupid not to claim them and take the clout that comes with the numbers.

velocirafter

apoch632 wrote: »

That 90% though comes down to regardless of belief most Irish people in the republic identify as Catholics. And they put it down on the census like that every time. Or whoever fills out the forms in the house does.

Until people stop doing this the church would be stupid not to claim them and take the clout that comes with the numbers.

fair point

Galvasean

Interesting I was at a comedy clunb last night and one of the comics was doing material on religion, he stopped at one point and said, "Everybody here is an atheist right"? A couple of people said "Yeah". He then said "So is everybody else religious?" No response at all.. until some drunk old guy in the back piped up yelling "Me, I'm an atheist and I'm fed up pretending to be Catholic". He got a small round of applause. The comic then urged people to speak out and started pointing at sections of the audience asking them what they are. Most people said atheist or "Don't know".

Not really sure where im going with this, just seemed kind of interesting.

Fanny Cradock

Galvasean wrote: »

Interesting I was at a comedy clunb last night and one of the comics was doing material on religion, he stopped at one point and said, "Everybody here is an atheist right"? A couple of people said "Yeah". He then said "So is everybody else religious?" No response at all.. until some drunk old guy in the back piped up yelling "Me, I'm an atheist and I'm fed up pretending to be Catholic". He got a small round of applause. The comic then urged people to speak out and started pointing at sections of the audience asking them what they are. Most people said atheist or "Don't know".

Not really sure where im going with this, just seemed kind of interesting.

Sounds odd.

Goduznt Xzst

I think most Atheists are atheist in a state of being and not in a state of mind.

It isn't really that difficult to come to an acceptance that the gods of your parents and grandparents don't exist. If you where to think about your day to day life there are plenty of decisions you make naturally about what is true and what is not, when to trust and believe and when to question and disregard. You've just been thought that in the area of your religious thought that you should ignore your natural ability to reason and accept a conclusion without a proof.

Youth also adds the inimitable sense of indestructibility, probably the only gap in your life where you are fully aware of death but completely complacent to it. It's a gap where if you are not hindered by the pressures of your peers or the respect of your parents and family that you will start to question the need for your Gods existence. The Multi ethnic society that Ireland is now becoming is an excellent breeding ground for Atheism because now your peer group will not necessarily be people of the same belief systems.

In my opinion, the greatest way to become an Atheist, is not to talk to one, but to sit down and talk to people who believe as strongly as you do, but are members of a religion that is a polar opposite to yours. An acceptance that your belief and God are only a drop in an ocean of other beliefs and Gods in this world can only bring a person to the conclusion that they have no reason to assume that the words of their holy people are of any greater importance or truth than the words of every other religions holy people.

robindch

Galvasean wrote: »

Not really sure where im going with this, just seemed kind of interesting.

Weird. Wouldn't have happened 20 years ago, I can tell you.

Speaking of which, the 1972 documentary Marjoe showed up in alt.binaries.documentaries and alt.binaries.multimedia.documentaries newsfroups last Sunday, and I watched the first twenty minutes of it last night. Scary stuff. It's about a kid named Marjoe Gortner whose parents made him into a revivalist, evangelical preacher at the age of four and who, just before hanging up his preaching hat and coming out as an atheist, invited a film crew around the place with him, gave them the lowdown on how the business of evangelism operated, then went out and did it for real in front of the cameras and the knowing film crew, and unknowning mobs.

Lots of speaking in tongues, falling over backwards, convulsing on the floor, squeezed-eyed fervent sweating, hail hosannas, pass the money-sack, and all the rest of it.

It won an Academy Award for best documentary in 1972, but was never shown in the bible belt and fell into obscurity soon after. It was re-released on DVD recently.

A fascinating story, if verging on the frankly voyeuristic.

Zamboni

Galvasean wrote: »

Interesting I was at a comedy clunb last night and one of the comics was doing material on religion, he stopped at one point and said, "Everybody here is an atheist right"? A couple of people said "Yeah". He then said "So is everybody else religious?" No response at all.. until some drunk old guy in the back piped up yelling "Me, I'm an atheist and I'm fed up pretending to be Catholic". He got a small round of applause. The comic then urged people to speak out and started pointing at sections of the audience asking them what they are. Most people said atheist or "Don't know".

Not really sure where im going with this, just seemed kind of interesting.

A lot of comedians are Atheist. O'Briain, Connolly, Byrne, Gervais... I think there is an interesting correlation there to be found between the way comedians look at the world and atheism.
Lets face it good comedy stems from critical observance of the human condition.
On topic though, yeah I would say it must be cool for teenagers to be atheist. I know when I was a teenager atheim was right at the cuff of outright disobedience in school except that I has some sound teachers.

Galvasean

When I was in school (5 years ago) it was still relatively taboo to be an 'out' atheist. Usually if you said so you'd have to explain to people why ("How can you not believe in ANY kind of God?") which I wasn't bothered doing every couple of days. It was much easier to be an 'agnostic', although looking back that just makes you look like a fence sitter.

Shacklebolt

Galvasean wrote: »

When I was in school (5 years ago) it was still relatively taboo to be an 'out' atheist. Usually if you said so you'd have to explain to people why ("How can you not believe in ANY kind of God?") which I wasn't bothered doing every couple of days. It was much easier to be an 'agnostic', although looking back that just makes you look like a fence sitter.

I remember telling my classmates shortly before my confirmation that I didnt believe in God and they were absolutely shocked-the idea that there was no such being had never crossed there minds at all even for a second. Most of them are the same today even though they arent religous at all they cant conceive God not existing.

Skadi

t-ha wrote: »

Unfortunately most people are lazy. They become theists because they're told to/their families are, without researching the background of their religion, seeing where it came from (which often highlights its ridiculousness) and so on. Many people will vehemently defend their religion without knowing almost anything about it. The same laziness may well cause people to switch over to atheism without properly researching why they should be. If the OP's assertion that alot of people are becoming ill-informed atheists is true, it's possible that they might be noting that alot of people who have researched it have become atheist and so that's good enough for them? In short, alot of people in my opinion (despite their objections when questioned) display sheep-type following mentalities.

Normally that's fine, but in the case of atheism I would find it a little disturbing since I tend to put atheism and scientific/rational thinking in the same box together, and would like to think that people who become atheists would also embrace the methods of thinking that require evidence-based conclusions and logical thought.

Couldn't agree more with you. I always find it interesting that many atheists are just as adamant as christian that you are not thinking clearly or logically in order to be able to accept their views. As for me I probably have forged my own beliefs but tend to think of myself as agnostic.

And I don't understand the idea that a religious person must be able to prove there is a god, while the atheist feels he/she needs no hard evidence to prove there is no god.

velocirafter

robindch wrote: »

Speaking of which, the 1972 documentary Marjoe showed up in alt.binaries.documentaries and alt.binaries.multimedia.documentaries newsfroups last Sunday, and I watched the first twenty minutes of it last night. Scary stuff. It's about a kid named Marjoe Gortner whose parents made him into a revivalist, evangelical preacher at the age of four and who, just before hanging up his preaching hat and coming out as an atheist, invited a film crew around the place with him, gave them the lowdown on how the business of evangelism operated, then went out and did it for real in front of the cameras and the knowing film crew, and unknowning mobs.

downloaded and watched it there, its pretty good definitely worth a watch, i wonder what he does now?

Húrin

Galvasean wrote: »

Interesting I was at a comedy clunb last night and one of the comics was doing material on religion, he stopped at one point and said, "Everybody here is an atheist right"? A couple of people said "Yeah". He then said "So is everybody else religious?" No response at all.. until some drunk old guy in the back piped up yelling "Me, I'm an atheist and I'm fed up pretending to be Catholic". He got a small round of applause. The comic then urged people to speak out and started pointing at sections of the audience asking them what they are. Most people said atheist or "Don't know".

Not really sure where im going with this, just seemed kind of interesting.

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

I think most Atheists are atheist in a state of being and not in a state of mind.

It isn't really that difficult to come to an acceptance that the gods of your parents and grandparents don't exist.

That's because our culture is in a very odd place where most people quietly claim to be religious (in surveys) but to actually admit it in public is to invite ridicule.

People have not abandoned God intellectually, but at the same time, believing in God has become unbelievable - as professed by Neitzsche.

Wacker

Skadi wrote: »

And I don't understand the idea that a religious person must be able to prove there is a god, while the atheist feels he/she needs no hard evidence to prove there is no god.

Well, to give a reallybrief answer (as my eyelids are getting heavy), it is impossible to disprove the existence of anything at all. One's default position should therefor be that things don't exist until proven otherwise.
The position I jusdescribed would be open to attack, as I did not sufficiently elaborate. I'm tired!

Húrin

Wacker wrote: »

Well, to give a reallybrief answer (as my eyelids are getting heavy), it is impossible to disprove the existence of anything at all. One's default position should therefor be that things don't exist until proven otherwise.
The position I jusdescribed would be open to attack, as I did not sufficiently elaborate. I'm tired!

Scientists disprove hypotheses all the time, but they do not often prove them.

velocirafter

I think what whacker is trying to say is that you cant just believe everything by default. Its back to the old celestial tea-pot argument. Until someone can prove a deity's existence then there should be no reason to believe it exists