Effects of the recession on religious attendance

Rev Hellfire

pH wrote: »

We Believe:

• In the verbal inspiration of the Bible.
• In one God eternally existing in three persons; namely, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
• That Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of the Father, conceived of the Holy Ghost, and born of the Virgin Mary. That Jesus was crucified, buried, and raised from the dead. That He ascended to heaven and is today at the right hand of the Father as the Intercessor.
• That all have sinned and come short of the glory of God and that repentance is commanded of God for all and necessary for forgiveness of sins.
• That justification, regeneration, and the new birth are wrought by faith in the blood of Jesus Christ.
• In sanctification subsequent to the new birth, through faith in the blood of Christ; through the Word, and by the Holy Ghost.
• Holiness to be God's standard of living for His people.
• In the baptism with the Holy Ghost subsequent to a clean heart.
• In speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance and that it is the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
• In water baptism by immersion, and all who repent should be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
• Divine healing is provided for all in the atonement.
• In the Lord's Supper and washing of the saints' feet.
• In the premillennial second coming of Jesus. First, to resurrect the righteous dead and to catch away the living saints to Him in the air. Second, to reign on the earth a thousand years.
• In the bodily resurrection; eternal life for the righteous, and eternal punishment for the wicked.

Ahh, there's nothing so nice as a christmas conversion

jrodd

I think with the credit crunch and today uncertain economic climate that people will be turning more to work for financial reward rather than our lord jesus for spiritual reward imho.
I know several accountants who instead of attending a 3 hour sermon will duck into their office an spend the time calculating numbers tbh.

pH

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Ahh, there's nothing so nice as a christmas conversion

It's a genuine honest to goodness Christmas miracle. I believe it all and understand none of it!

SimpleSam06

pH wrote: »

You mean this stuff?

We Believe:

• In the verbal inspiration of the Bible.
• In one God eternally existing in three persons; namely, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
• That Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of the Father, conceived of the Holy Ghost, and born of the Virgin Mary. That Jesus was crucified, buried, and raised from the dead. That He ascended to heaven and is today at the right hand of the Father as the Intercessor.
• That all have sinned and come short of the glory of God and that repentance is commanded of God for all and necessary for forgiveness of sins.
• That justification, regeneration, and the new birth are wrought by faith in the blood of Jesus Christ.
• In sanctification subsequent to the new birth, through faith in the blood of Christ; through the Word, and by the Holy Ghost.
• Holiness to be God's standard of living for His people.
• In the baptism with the Holy Ghost subsequent to a clean heart.
• In speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance and that it is the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
• In water baptism by immersion, and all who repent should be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
• Divine healing is provided for all in the atonement.
• In the Lord's Supper and washing of the saints' feet.
• In the premillennial second coming of Jesus. First, to resurrect the righteous dead and to catch away the living saints to Him in the air. Second, to reign on the earth a thousand years.
• In the bodily resurrection; eternal life for the righteous, and eternal punishment for the wicked.

Yankee go home.

CDfm

pH wrote: »

You mean this stuff?

[/list]

Your list is based on the Creed ( Apostles/Nicene) - a statement ofChristian belief.

Thats a bit of topic as this is about church attendence during recession.

We Christians know that atheists have priests and nun phobias and vegeterian atheists just feel sorry for the turkey.

Tar.Aldarion

Sure do! My facke turkey and fake sausages wrapped in fake rasher is just about done.

Don't know if attendance will change much, a bigger effect will be the polish leaving.

toiletduck

I know they always do it at Christmas Mass but this year in particular was terrible for the priest attempting to cling onto as many lapsed Catholics as possible. Went into a diatribe about how we won't be as "crazy" anymore, the recession will make us "put God back on the agenda" and be happier all round yadda yadda.

I'm not sure what the economic state will have on religious attendance. Most people like a lie in, but if you're on the rock'n'roll and getting up past midday daily then it might be a nice change to get up on the Sabbath :pac:

Tar.Aldarion

This year our one didn't. He actually told a funny joke about a kid ransoming mary back to jesus for gifts.

toiletduck

A sermon on the dangers of moral relativism aswell for me. You win.

Tar.Aldarion

Yeah my mass was good fun. A kid started hitting his sister while she laughed the whole time, also their mother was hot. Another kid kept pretending to give a toy helicopter to a child in front of it for 20 minutes and pulling it back, a hamster would learn faster. When the baskets came around for th money, a child started shouting, 'my money! my money!' which was quite funny.

CDfm

For someone like me -to see a bunch of people go for the "event" rather then the sarcrament kind- of wrecks it.

If the kids and the adults cant behave they shouldnt be there. Vegeterians wouldnt find it funny if I brought cooked chicken to a vegeterian resteraunt for meat eaters.

I think there should be bouncers on the doors saying regulars only.

Húrin

CDfm wrote: »

I think there should be bouncers on the doors saying regulars only.

lol, and they should be bishops!

Tar.Aldarion

CDfm wrote: »

For someone like me -to see a bunch of people go for the "event" rather then the sarcrament kind- of wrecks it.

If the kids and the adults cant behave they shouldnt be there. Vegeterians wouldnt find it funny if I brought cooked chicken to a vegeterian resteraunt for meat eaters.

I think there should be bouncers on the doors saying regulars only.

A)The priest kept going on about how great it was to see the kids there and also welcomed non Christians.
How were the parents misbehaving? How exactly do you force a child to behave? Do you not think they tried?
C) If it was regulars only it wouldn't be very 'christian' of them, there would also be about 10% of the people there. The church wouldn't get it's biggest payday of the year in the baskets.

CDfm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

A)The priest kept going on about how great it was to see the kids there and also welcomed non Christians.
How were the parents misbehaving? How exactly do you force a child to behave? Do you not think they tried?
C) If it was regulars only it wouldn't be very 'christian' of them, there would also be about 10% of the people there. The church wouldn't get it's biggest payday of the year in the baskets.

Tar - its just my view. The priests view would be different to mine.

Really - the parents tried. It kept you amused for twenty minites.Their disrespect really amused you. As a parent Ive done it-betcha they would have no problem making their kids behave at the sweet counter. They couldnt be arsed.

Its funny is it -that you and others feel it perfectly normal to go to mass when you want and use the church resourses. I imagine if the non-believers each put in the price of a pint it might be worthwhile but in reality they only contibute a few cents each.It happens but I dont have to agree with it as I dont think the "guests" behave.

When you and other non-believers are there you dont know how to behave-which says more about your lack of respect.I compared it to someone bringing meat to a veterarian resteraunt which you dont seem to think wrong -it gives me the impression that your beliefs are not sincere but disposible.

I am just pointing out that you and other atheists see nothing wrong in operating a double standard.

Tar.Aldarion

CDfm wrote: »

Tar - its just my view. The priests view would be different to mine.

Which one represents god?

Really - the parents tried. It kept you amused for twenty minites.Their disrespect really amused you.

Yes their disrespect was the funny bit, ho ho, look at them disrespecting christianity! Actually it was children having fun.

As a parent Ive done it-betcha they would have no problem making their kids behave at the sweet counter. They couldnt be arsed.

You mean they wouldn't have a problem making a child behave for something they want? Not really a surprise. What child wants to be at mass? The difference in your example is incentive. There is also a constraint on parents at mass that there is not in a sweet shop. They must be quite quiet and respectful, not to mention we were in the front row of the church, right beside the priest.

I doubt they wanted to be embarrassed andthey did try. They took the toy, the child cried and shouted quite loud. They tried whispering to it whatever it was they said etc. They got him to go back being quiet by giving him the toy and going back to playing with another child. I have seen this is the norm in mass for over my two decades of attendance, the priests don't mind. It was a specific part of his sermon for people to take two minutes and look at the children playing and I believe his words included 'rejoice'. He must have been rejoicing in their disrespect?

Its funny is it -that you and others feel it perfectly normal to go to mass when you want and use the church resourses.

I have never wanted to go to mass in my life, but I've probably gone more than most christians. As I have also stated, the priests of my parish have also made a point of asking paritioners to bring those along that are not of the faith to attend the mass and to welcome them.

I imagine if the non-believers each put in the price of a pint it might be worthwhile but in reality they only contibute a few cents each.It happens but I dont have to agree with it as I dont think the "guests" behave.

It should not be about the churhc making money and what money they make from the attendees. That few cent comment is also ridiculous, there are about 10 'real' christians attending that mass, the church is mostly empty during th year, packed to capacity at christmas. There was quite a lot of money in each of those baskets.

When you and other non-believers are there you dont know how to behave-which says more about your lack of respect.

That is nonsense, I was raised catholic as was everybody there, I could say the mass off by heart if I wanted, let alone know how to behave.

I compared it to someone bringing meat to a veterarian resteraunt which you dont seem to think wrong -it gives me the impression that your beliefs are not sincere but disposible.

I am just pointing out that you and other atheists see nothing wrong in operating a double standard.

Your analogy makes no sense, it is more like(but nothing at all similar) an omnivore eating at a vegetarian restaurant but not believing in vegetariansim.

CDfm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Which one represents god?


Yes their disrespect was the funny bit, ho ho, look at them disrespecting christianity! Actually it was children having fun.

You mean they wouldn't have a problem making a child behave for something they want? Not really a surprise. What child wants to be at mass? The difference in your example is incentive. There is also a constraint on parents at mass that there is not in a sweet shop. They must be quite quiet and respectful, not to mention we were in the front row of the church, right beside the priest.

I doubt they wanted to be embarrassed andthey did try. They took the toy, the child cried and shouted quite loud. They tried whispering to it whatever it was they said etc. They got him to go back being quiet by giving him the toy and going back to playing with another child. I have seen this is the norm in mass for over my two decades of attendance, the priests don't mind. It was a specific part of his sermon for people to take two minutes and look at the children playing and I believe his words included 'rejoice'. He must have been rejoicing in their disrespect?


I have never wanted to go to mass in my life, but I've probably gone more than most christians. As I have also stated, the priests of my parish have also made a point of asking paritioners to bring those along that are not of the faith to attend the mass and to welcome them.


It should not be about the churhc making money and what money they make from the attendees. That few cent comment is also ridiculous, there are about 10 'real' christians attending that mass, the church is mostly empty during th year, packed to capacity at christmas. There was quite a lot of money in each of those baskets.


That is nonsense, I was raised catholic as was everybody there, I could say the mass off by heart if I wanted, let alone know how to behave.


Your analogy makes no sense, it is more like(but nothing at all similar) an omnivore eating at a vegetarian restaurant but not believing in vegetariansim.

Jesus at the Temple with the moneychangers hits the point quite well - he kicked them out.The point being that the church is a House of Prayer and people are welcome for Genuine prayer reasons.

Do non Catholic Christian churches have this problem?

My analogy hits the mark- its about how people behave and respect. If you adopt double standards I dont see why others cant do the same in vegetarian resteraunts. Its the same thing.

Fanny Cradock

CDfm wrote: »

Jesus at the Temple with the moneychangers hits the point quite well - he kicked them out.The point being that the church is a House of Prayer and people are welcome for Genuine prayer reasons.

Do non Catholic Christian churches have this problem?

My analogy hits the mark- its about how people behave and respect. If you adopt double standards I dont see why others cant do the same in vegetarian resteraunts. Its the same thing.

Your analogy fails on may levels.

A church isn't an exclusive club whereby the intentions of those heading through the door are vetted. If the person beside me is an atheist, agnostic or Jew, I couldn't give two hoots as long as they are outwardly respectful, at least. So as long as people aren't disruptive, then they are more than welcome. Sure, form a Christian perspective, it might even be the beginnings of something wonderful!

CDfm

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Your analogy fails on may levels.

A church isn't an exclusive club whereby the intentions of those heading through the door are vetted. If the person beside me is an atheist, agnostic or Jew, I couldn't give two hoots as long as they are outwardly respectful, at least. So as long as people aren't disruptive, then they are more than welcome. Sure, form a Christian perspective, it might even be the beginnings of something wonderful!

I was at Mass yesterday and it wasnt very spiritual and there were people arriving in half an hour after it started.I didnt think people respected the ceremony as a sarcrament. Tars posting just put it straight.

Thats what I felt- if I arrived in a vegetarian resteraunt with my chicken wings I wouldnt expect a welcome.

It kind of reminded me of the drunks that used to arrive at Midnight mass from the pubs - which caused them to be discontinued.

PDN

CDfm wrote: »

It kind of reminded me of the drunks that used to arrive at Midnight mass from the pubs - which caused them to be discontinued.

The pubs were discontinued?

CDfm

PDN wrote: »

The pubs were discontinued?

The Midnight Vigils in Catholic Churches have been discontinued in churches for sometime. They used to start at 11pm Christmas Eve and were a real celebration.

SimpleSam06

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

If the person beside me is an atheist, agnostic or Jew, I couldn't give two hoots as long as they are outwardly respectful

And top up the collection plate, eh?

Dades

CDfm wrote: »

It kind of reminded me of the drunks that used to arrive at Midnight mass from the pubs - which caused them to be discontinued.

Ah, midnight mass after the pub! I remember it as quite the social occasion!

Húrin

CDfm wrote: »

Tar - its just my view. The priests view would be different to mine.

I agree with Tar Aldarion. The "All Welcome" sign which is on every Christian church that I've seen, is serious.

Fanny Cradock

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

And top up the collection plate, eh?

Last time I was at Mass (a number of years ago) no one held a gun to my head when the collection plate went around.

CDfm

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Last time I was at Mass (a number of years ago) no one held a gun to my head when the collection plate went around.

and had you been to the pub for a few hours before you went

Fanny Cradock

CDfm wrote: »

and had you been to the pub for a few hours before you went

In a word: No.

CDfm

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

In a word: No.

So ultimately churches are for praying in. Thats why I felt a lot of the religous side of Christmas gets ruined for lots of believers at this time.

I must find a local Anglican Church for next year and it might be more meaningful for me.

Fanny Cradock

CDfm wrote: »

So ultimately churches are for praying in. Thats why I felt a lot of the religous side of Christmas gets ruined for lots of believers at this time.

I must find a local Anglican Church for next year and it might be more meaningful for me.

I don't believe they are specifically for praying - one can do that at home. Although they are antiquated words, churches, imo, are there for praising God and fellowship with your fellow man. I see them as a type of spiritual oasis, but still only a building.

SimpleSam06

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I don't believe they are specifically for praying - one can do that at home. Although they are antiquated words, churches, imo, are there for praising God and fellowship with your fellow man. I see them as a type of spiritual oasis, but still only a building.

Not exactly pocket change to bang them together either ha? I wonder how many dinners Galway Cathedral would have bought. :P Ah no I know the priests only want to do good in the world and putting people in overwhelming surroundings in no way influences their contributions to the continuation of the mother church.

CDfm

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Not exactly pocket change to bang them together either ha? I wonder how many dinners Galway Cathedral would have bought. :P Ah no I know the priests only want to do good in the world and putting people in overwhelming surroundings in no way influences their contributions to the continuation of the mother church.

Why are you picking on the RCC. Its where we worship as a community as the catholic communion. Its what we do and its important to us.

BTW - are their atheist groups providing whatever service you propose?