BluRay Of Death

Qs

noodler wrote: »

The bit where you are using an inaccurate and under-observed internet poll to justify saying that the PS3 has a 25% failure rate.

I know it happened to you but, for example, I haven't even bothered to vote yet and I'm sure alot of people are the same way.

True. I never opened a BROD thread until I had it happen to me.

Daemos

Yeah, but that isn't always the case. I opened this thread, but it hasn't happened to me - yet:eek:

noodler

I'm sorry but this is absolute bull.

I am sorry to get all professional on you but there is a certain number of votes needed before results can even be considered for statistical significance. One of these threads was done in the summer (by me no less) and it was made plainly clear that many people who hadn't experienced laser problems would stay well clear and would not bother voting 'no problems as of yet'.

If Sony was expeiencing Hardware failure rates at the 25% mark (An article yesterday suggested they were as low as 3%) then why do you think a poll on boards.ie from a incomplete sample is what would be outing outing them?

Face it, the people arguing the point here are the select few who have had it happen to them.

Don't get me wrong, if my ps3 breaks down I will be the first one here asking for advice, but there is no point pretending the problem is bigger than it is just because the internet has allowed you to find a common victim.

Hell, if the problem was that bad, why do you think the media would be sparing Sony and not Microsoft?

whiterebel

noodler wrote: »

I'm sorry but this is absolute bull.

I am sorry to get all professional on you but there is a certain number of votes needed before results can even be considered for statistical significance. One of these threads was done in the summer (by me no less) and it was made plainly clear that many people who hadn't experienced laser problems would stay well clear and would not bother voting 'no problems as of yet'.

If Sony was expeiencing Hardware failure rates at the 25% mark (An article yesterday suggested they were as low as 3%) then why do you think a poll on boards.ie from a incomplete sample is what would be outing outing them?

Face it, the people arguing the point here are the select few who have had it happen to them.

Don't get me wrong, if my ps3 breaks down I will be the first one here asking for advice, but there is no point pretending the problem is bigger than it is just because the internet has allowed you to find a common victim.

Hell, if the problem was that bad, why do you think the media would be sparing Sony and not Microsoft?

What ever mate, I'm not arguing, you just can't seem to see the woods for the trees. I don't think a small poll here will get a giant like Sony to admit it, but ally this to the posts on other threads and forums with the same problem and then you have leverage. believe me, if Sony hadn't fixed mine without a whimper, I would be on to every paper, small claims court etc, etc.
Electronics companies always say they are not aware of problems (I know - I've had to do it in a tech support job), despite massive forums on said problems on the internet and the like. Only when the problem becomes so big they have to admit to it, and Sony have done with this. Lets not forget this isn't unusual for Sony - They had a very similar problem with the PS2 laser when it came out, or maybe we're all imagining that too? Coincidentally, isn't 3% the figure Microsoft tried to put on it when it was obvious that the problem was a lot more widespread? I doubt Sony would be fixing (quietly) out of warranty if it was a tiny fraction of sales.

noodler

I can't see the woods from the trees? Is that your copy and paste response when some disagrees with you?

When retailers tell us PS3s have a fail rate of 25% then I'll believe it. Your current evidence amounts to a biased and tiny sample in an internet forum that would purposely attract people who have had hardware failures.

I'll repeat, if the problem was anywhere near as bad an you are making out then why wouldn't it be given more media attention?

I still have my phat PS2 upstairs. Works fine, ever since 2001. I heard the horror stories though.

whiterebel

It seems Sony have admitted a problem, but you're waiting to hear from the retailers. Unless you work for Sony, I really can't see why you seem to be getting bent out of shape over this, so I'll leave it.

noodler

I don't work for Sony, I wish.

However I just don't like unjustiifed scaremongering. 25% of PS3s do not break.

Daemos

Check the reports of this problem that people are reporting on other threads here on boards.ie. Several instances of people whose PS3s broke down after the warranty was out, yet Sony replaced them with no problem. Surely they would not be doing this if it was some isolated occurances.

I agree with whiterebel. Sony don't want a worldwide advertisement of PS3s breaking down, so they want to fix the problems quickly and quietly. Of course, thanks to messageboards like this, its impossible to keep the problem quiet.

So what do they do? Say its not as bad as we think. Look at the poll above. Whenever the amount of votes go up, the percentages stay similar. So the results that people are voting for seem to be consistent, even as people vote. This also confirms my previous statement, does it not?

DaPoolRulz wrote: »

The very basis of precentages in a small group is to reflect the probable results on a larger scale. Ever seen the Whiskas ad? 8 out of ten cats prefer it? They did that survey with probably 100 cats, yet the popularity of the brand suggests that it is fairly accurate, when applied to more cats. That very same principle is applied here.

noodler

Look pal. I have been nice up now with you and your misguided Whiskas analogy but come off it. Do a bit of research into the field of statistics. For the last time-there are so many people who haven't voted here because the thread attracts people with a problem.

If you think 25% of PS3s are failing then you are self-deluded, your thread actually hasn't unearthed some amazing discovery. If you think it has then try and sell it to the media and when they hear your basis for it they will laugh down the phone at you.

As for Sony fixing machines-this seems like a typical scenario of damned if you do and damned if you don't.


As for other message boards-well there are about 10m PS3s in the world. So with a Failure rate of 3 or 4% that means 3 or 4 hundred thousand PS3s. I think you are struggling to grasp the concept of scale here.

Daemos

If my Whiskas analogy is so misguided, then how come so many companies across the world conduct similar experiments?

And I'LL say THIS again: check my very first post. I didn't start this thread to unlock the secret stats of the problem. I started it to get a GENERAL IDEA!!! And you know what I uncovered? The majority of PS3s have no problems with them.

While you're at it, check my other posts. You'll find that I said the same thing as you a while ago

DaPoolRulz wrote: »

I'm not surprised at the very large amount of people experiencing no problems. I always thought that it may not be as widespread as some were making out. I was always saying, there are lots of people reporting problems, but hardly anyone would post to say yay, everything's fine my end.

I've also been very supportive of your previous views, as my other replies will show. The only thing that you are saying that I completely disagree with is the purpose of this thread.

AtomicHorror

The poll is unlikely to reflect reality well on a few points as suggested by noodler.

1. The study group is small and thus chance (perhaps Ireland is a good or bad locale for BROD?) will skew results by a larger percentage than it would in a larger study. A few percentage points of such an error would easily be expected in a study with 100 participants, this does not even have that many.

2. The thread title is "BluRay of Death". It is thus much more likely to attract attention from PS3 users who have experienced this problem, and to be ignored by those who have not.

3. When it comes to those who do look at the thread, it is probable that there is a difference in the likelihood of getting an answer between those who have experienced the problem (and are annoyed) and those who have not (and are defensive). We can't get a handle on which way that will bias the result.

4. Fanboys will bias in both directions and as with point 3, it's hard to know which way the bias will run overall.

The poll is not useless, but to assume that the failure rate of PS3s is 25% based upon it would be silly. A survey like this would need to be carried out on a good 1000 or so PS3 owners and completed by a randomised cross-section of owners before we could have some reasonable measure of confidence in the results.

AtomicHorror

DaPoolRulz wrote: »

If my Whiskas analogy is so misguided, then how come so many companies across the world conduct similar experiments?

To mislead you into buying cat food. The stats quoted by such companies are notorious for their selectivity, inaccuracy or outright inapplicability.

noodler

And my faith in the world is restored.

I'm not saying BROD is a myth-I am saying it is nothing like 25%.

Daemos

OK, I'm willing to admit that it isn't the most accurate poll in the world. But for the billionth time, its a GENERAL RESULT!!!!!!!!!!

AtomicHorror

DaPoolRulz wrote: »

OK, I'm willing to admit that it isn't the most accurate poll in the world. But for the billionth time, its a GENERAL RESULT!!!!!!!!!!

It's all good.

noodler

AtomicHorror wrote: »

A survey like this would need to be carried out on a good 1000 or so PS3 owners and completed by a randomised cross-section of owners before we could have some reasonable measure of confidence in the results.

Metrics?

whiterebel

Should this thread be stickied? I see on another thread that a poster asked a store manager, and he reckoned they are taking back 1/3 of PS3s. May be we should keep it at the top to keep an eye on the figures, scientific or not.

noodler

Absolutely.

If for no other reason than to let people see how to deak with Sony should they have a problem.

Daemos

Yay! I made a good thread!

Sephiroth_dude

Had a 60 gig since the end of october 07,rushed out to get a 60 gig as I heard they were not going into production anymore.have'nt had any problem with it yet thank god,I hope I dont either as I play a lot of ps1,ps2 rpgs on it,since I sold my ps2.I do play a lot of dvds on it and I suspose I should'nt be,Is it bad for it if you play dvds on it?If it does break will sony give me a new gig one?

Daemos

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Had a 60 gig since the end of october 07,rushed out to get a 60 gig as I heard they were not going into production anymore.have'nt had any problem with it yet thank god,I hope I dont either as I play a lot of ps1,ps2 rpgs on it,since I sold my ps2.I do play a lot of dvds on it and I suspose I should'nt be,Is it bad for it if you play dvds on it?If it does break will sony give me a new gig one?

I wouldn't say playing too many DVDs would do any damage. I've been doing it since the day I got it, the day after it was released, and no problems at my end either. Earlier in the thread, you'll see that we think that its playing too many BluRays that does it. But that's just speculation.

As far as replacements are concerned, the common practice seems to be that you get a 40GB replacement for a faulty 60GB console.

Cow Moolester

I got it on Christmas Day

DaPoolRulz

DaPoolRulz wrote: »

As far as replacements are concerned, the common practice seems to be that you get a 40GB replacement for a faulty 60GB console.

I got a refurbished 60gb when I sent mine back.

whiterebel

Me too.

noodler

whiterebel wrote: »

Should this thread be stickied? I see on another thread that a poster asked a store manager, and he reckoned they are taking back 1/3 of PS3s. May be we should keep it at the top to keep an eye on the figures, scientific or not.

DaPoolRulz wrote: »

Yay! I made a good thread!

Actually theres a far better "Has anyone else experienced the BlurRay of Death Thread?" somewhere. Has far more stories in it.

seanybiker

so does anyone wanna answer the question? If your ps3 is out of warranty, how much does it cost to get it fixed. Nobody seems to wanna answer it.im sticking with me xbox360

Brerrabbit

40 gig died 13 months after i bought it.
It's a Japanese one too so I'm right fecked

bigdaddyliamo

I've a 60gb since launch, no issues and used every day!:)

whiterebel

noodler wrote: »

Actually theres a far better "Has anyone else experienced the BlurRay of Death Thread?" somewhere. Has far more stories in it.

Maybe we should merge both, and then sticky it?

Unregistered.

My 13 month-old 60GB(one of the last) is working... No issues to date.

My bro still uses the 7-year PS2 upstairs.... it's fine.
And for ****s and giggles, I've just blown the dust off the ORIGINAL playstation (i.e not PS1), stuck in FIFA '97 and that's A-OK too!


I know that may not mean much to this thread, but I think that the point that some made earlier is valid. A lot of people who have not had problems with their PS3 will not visit this thread. It would very easily attract the attention of people who have had problems, as they could immediately associate themselves with the thread's title.

I also would like to make a comment on the point about the "Whiskers 8/10 cats" type surveys. I would like point out that the ENTIRE sample of cats(or indeed people as in other polls) who partake in the survey would be counted in the poll. i.e. All those who liked it would be counted, and all those that didn't would be counted.

Whereas in this case, nobody is obliged to be counted like the above controlled surveys. If you took a random sample of PS3 users and got them to vote in this poll then it would bear a degree of accuracy.
But because this thread is more likely to attract users who have had a problem, then it is likely that it will not be accurate.


U.