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TII Motorway Service Areas (MSA) Progress Thread

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,341 D Trent


    ezra_ wrote: »
    What online motorway service stations don't have showers?

    He probably means 24hr showers, Applegreen Lusk, C'Bellingham, and Enfield just have 24hr toilets.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,349 ✭✭✭ ezra_


    D Trent wrote: »
    He probably means 24hr showers, Applegreen Lusk, C'Bellingham, and Enfield just have 24hr toilets.

    Fair enough, I didn't know they weren't available 24/7


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    The online MSAs should really be 24 hour operations, and not the pissy attempts they are at night. Having outdoor toilets at these premises after 12 simply discourages use and one of the main purposes of these areas is to provide services to people who may be tired.


  • Registered Users Posts: 560 ✭✭✭ Aontachtoir


    Two articles in the Times today about MSAs.

    The first talks again about the end of the legal battle over the Gorey, Kilcullen, and Moate MSAs. Confirmation again that Gorey is due to be open by the end of the year, and Kilcullen and Moate (which will be built by Circle K) are due to open next summer.

    The second article is about Pat McDonagh, who has just resubmitted a planning permission request for a large Barack Obama Plaza-style MSA on the M18 at Ennis (the first on the 101 km stretch of motorway). This MSA will supposedly double as a tourist information centre, with the intention of recruiting tourists travelling between Limerick and Galway, and directing them out into County Clare. Not a bad idea at all. Separately, the article mentions that TII are planning to review their planned MSA developments in the coming year.

    Now that there are offline services available at Ballacolla, Cashel, and Fermoy, does anyone know if TII are planning to drop plans to build online services for the M8?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,899 ✭✭✭ Chris_5339762



    Now that there are offline services available at Ballacolla, Cashel, and Fermoy, does anyone know if TII are planning to drop plans to build online services for the M8?


    They never had any concrete plans at all. The M8 has always been forgotten from the MSA list.


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    TII planned to open the MSAs in tranches. For many reasons, there are 3 active tranches at present (planned opening dates in brackets)

    Tranche 2: Moate M6 (2019), Kilcullen M9 (2019), Gorey M11 (2018)
    Tranche 3: Foynes Mxx (2025), Ringaskiddy M28 (2024)
    Tranche 4: Dunshaughlin M3 (2020), Oranmore M6/M17/M18 (2020), Newmarket on Fergus M18 (2020)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,946 ✭✭✭ Redsoxfan


    marno21 wrote:
    Tranche 2: Moate M6 (2019), Kilcullen M9 (2019), Gorey M11 (2018) Tranche 3: Foynes Mxx (2025), Ringaskiddy M28 (2024) Tranche 4: Dunshaughlin M3 (2020), Oranmore M6/M17/M18 (2020), Newmarket on Fergus M18 (2020)


    Is Moate the one where ramps are already in place?


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,633 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    All of Tranche 2 has the bridges in place; Gorey has the building shell also.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭ whyulittle


    Cones went up around the M6 Athlone/Moate MSA today.

    A new services sign went up near Kinnegad a few weeks back, with "Athlone Junction 7-8 45 km" on it. Took them a few days to grey-out the 7-8 part.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,003 ✭✭✭ fricatus


    whyulittle wrote: »
    A new services sign went up near Kinnegad a few weeks back, with "Athlone Junction 7-8 45 km" on it. Took them a few days to grey-out the 7-8 part.

    Similarly, there's a new sign right at the start of the M9, Waterford end, which mentions services between junctions 2 and 3. It hasn't yet been greyed out...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,708 ✭✭✭✭ Kermit.de.frog


    marno21 wrote: »
    TII planned to open the MSAs in tranches. For many reasons, there are 3 active tranches at present (planned opening dates in brackets)

    Tranche 2: Moate M6 (2019), Kilcullen M9 (2019), Gorey M11 (2018)
    Tranche 3: Foynes Mxx (2025), Ringaskiddy M28 (2024)
    Tranche 4: Dunshaughlin M3 (2020), Oranmore M6/M17/M18 (2020), Newmarket on Fergus M18 (2020)

    How can there be a motorway service place for Foynes when the link road will not be a motorway?

    Only the M21 is getting short extension


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    How can there be a motorway service place for Foynes when the link road will not be a motorway?

    Only the M21 is getting short extension
    The port access elements of the M21 and M28 will be single carriageway protected roads, both service areas will be on non motorway protected roads but these roads will be directly connected to the motorway network and will be de facto part of the motorway network, even if they don't have blue signs.

    The Foynes link road from the M21 will be single carriageway due to traffic volume. The M28 will not continue all the way into the Port of Cork due to space constraints.


  • Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭ Kevtherev1


    Does anyone have news / progress report for the Gorey Motorway Service area. Is the fit out of the MSA nearly finished. Is it still opening in November or December or has it been delayed


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,371 Mod ✭✭✭✭ spacetweek


    Kevtherev1 wrote: »
    Does anyone have news / progress report for the Gorey Motorway Service area. Is the fit out of the MSA nearly finished. Is it still opening in November or December or has it been delayed

    Couldn't find anything there when I looked. This indo article from July 2018 says Gorey will be open by the end of the year and M6 and M9 in summer 2019.
    I suppose they still have 2 months to open Gorey.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,883 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Couldn't find anything there when I looked. This indo article from July 2018 says Gorey will be open by the end of the year and M6 and M9 in summer 2019.
    I suppose they still have 2 months to open Gorey.

    The Athlone one on the M6 has construction work going on at the moment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,708 ✭✭✭✭ Kermit.de.frog


    Thread started 10 years a go.

    Demonstrates how slow we are building basic stuff in this country.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,299 ✭✭✭ serfboard


    Thread started 10 years a go.

    Demonstrates how slow we are building basic stuff in this country.
    In fairness, we did have (IIRC) the largest per-capita bank-bailout in the history of the world in the meantime ...


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    serfboard wrote: »
    In fairness, we did have (IIRC) the largest per-capita bank-bailout in the history of the world in the meantime ...
    MSAs are pocket change in comparison and have significant safety benefits though.

    Thankfully the private sector has mainly sorted this issue, apart from the M18. Whoever wins the M18 MSA race is in for quite the payday.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,201 ✭✭✭ ongarboy


    Circle K advertising for shop and deli staff for their Gorey MSA so an opening before Christmas sounds plausible.

    They also say in this article that they'll be opening MSAs in Wexford, Westmeath and 2 in Kildare. Apart from Gorey and Moate, where are the locations of the 2 Kildare MSAs they are referring to, does anyone know?

    https://www.checkout.ie/forecourt-rebrand-comes-full-circle/67422


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    ongarboy wrote: »
    Circle K advertising for shop and deli staff for their Gorey MSA so an opening before Christmas sounds plausible.

    They also say in this article that they'll be opening MSAs in Wexford, Westmeath and 2 in Kildare. Apart from Gorey and Moate, where are the locations of the 2 Kildare MSAs they are referring to, does anyone know?

    https://www.checkout.ie/forecourt-rebrand-comes-full-circle/67422
    Kildare - Kilcullen M9 and the redeveloped one just north of Goffs?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,457 ✭✭✭✭ josip


    marno21 wrote: »
    MSAs are pocket change in comparison and have significant safety benefits though.

    Thankfully the private sector has mainly sorted this issue, apart from the M18. Whoever wins the M18 MSA race is in for quite the payday.


    As regards the Gorey Service Station, I thought it was the private sector, via the legal action that caused the delays and cost the state a bucketload in security costs?


  • Registered Users Posts: 903 ✭✭✭ Wetasanotter


    josip wrote: »
    As regards the Gorey Service Station, I thought it was the private sector, via the legal action that caused the delays and cost the state a bucketload in security costs?

    A legal action against the State's tendering process.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,457 ✭✭✭✭ josip


    A legal action against the State's tendering process.


    What was the outcome of that in the end?


  • Registered Users Posts: 903 ✭✭✭ Wetasanotter


    The legal challenge was eventually withdrawn after out of court talks (and a confidential settlement) between the two main consortiums that had bid for the MSA tenders.

    The court action ended in mid 2017 and ended up costing TII €575,000 in legal fees.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/applegreen-tedcastles-challenge-topaz-motorway-contracts-1.2317441
    He told Judge Keane that SuperStop, in a specific instance, had tendered with regard to the lifespan of footpaths at the service stations rather than thickness.

    There had been a tie in tenders and Topaz had been awarded a full 20 points in the tiebreak category on footpaths because it had tendered on thickness as against the 10 marks of SuperStop which had tendered on longevity.

    The marks had been awarded in five categories of 20 and Topaz had ended up with 87 marks as against SuperStops 80 out of a total of 100, just a difference of seven.

    Mr Jeffers said the life expectation of footpaths was 25 years and SuperStop had tendered on a lifetime of 40 years rather than on thickness.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,597 ✭✭✭ blackwhite


    A legal action against the State's tendering process.

    The State's tendering process was never the issue.

    The slow-moving nature of our legal system was the real problem (much like the Apple planning in Athenry).

    An unsuccessful tenderer saw a way to get several years of trading with reduced competition at their new sites offline sites on the M11 and M9, and figured the return from that would outweigh the legal costs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭ tylercheribini


    blackwhite wrote: »
    The State's tendering process was never the issue.

    The slow-moving nature of our legal system was the real problem (much like the Apple planning in Athenry).

    An unsuccessful tenderer saw a way to get several years of trading with reduced competition at their new sites offline sites on the M11 and M9, and figured the return from that would outweigh the legal costs.

    I doubt there was much will on the successful tenderers part to open for business either, M11 site would possibly become far more viable with opening of Enniscorthy bypass within the next 7-8 months.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,299 ✭✭✭ serfboard


    marno21 wrote: »
    MSAs are pocket change in comparison and have significant safety benefits though.

    Thankfully the private sector has mainly sorted this issue, apart from the M18. Whoever wins the M18 MSA race is in for quite the payday.
    This is almost a perfect lesson in economics.

    The state is suppposed to invest in areas deemed necessary where it is useful to have the asset in state hands, or the private sector is unwilling to invest.

    Here, since the private sector was falling over each other trying to throw money at it, the government should have just let them build the MSAs as well - and lengthen the franchise in return. After all, we have DBFOs on the motorways so why not on the MSAs too?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,597 ✭✭✭ blackwhite


    I doubt there was much will on the successful tenderers part to open for business either, M11 site would possibly become far more viable with opening of Enniscorthy bypass within the next 7-8 months.

    Not so sure about that logic for the M9 site - given they went a sunk a large sum into the Carlow services.

    If they had certainty on the M9 on-line site at the time I doubt that project would have gone ahead, or if it did it would have been a smaller scale.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭ tylercheribini


    blackwhite wrote: »
    Not so sure about that logic for the M9 site - given they went a sunk a large sum into the Carlow services.

    If they had certainty on the M9 on-line site at the time I doubt that project would have gone ahead, or if it did it would have been a smaller scale.

    As a local resident of the M11 service area, I attended some of the oral hearings and the NRA's(its title then) logic for the site chosen was their was no suitable rest stop from Dublin to Gorey. In the interim the Coynes Cross service area has been opened in a fraction of the time,thus rendering that argument null and void. By the NRA's own admission their projected footfall figures were based on Celtic Tiger levels of economic growth also, another reason it now is not needed. As Ronald Reagan said "The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help." In this instance the private sector should have been left to its own devices because the state couldnt have f***ked it up more if they tried.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,510 ✭✭✭ secman


    ongarboy wrote: »
    Circle K advertising for shop and deli staff for their Gorey MSA so an opening before Christmas sounds plausible.

    They also say in this article that they'll be opening MSAs in Wexford, Westmeath and 2 in Kildare. Apart from Gorey and Moate, where are the locations of the 2 Kildare MSAs they are referring to, does anyone know?

    https://www.checkout.ie/forecourt-rebrand-comes-full-circle/67422

    The completion date for the Gorey site is now pushed out to about 2nd to 3rd week of February 19.
    The Goff site is due to open in 3rd week of Nov 18, 23rd or thereabouts, top brass coming over from Canada for the grand opening.


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