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TII Motorway Service Areas (MSA) Progress Thread

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Comments

  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    First MSA of Tranche 3 has been approved at Ringaskiddy on the M28. Will likely be built in conjunction with te motorway


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    From today's Gorey Guardian.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭serfboard


    From today's Gorey Guardian.
    There are serious questions to be asked of Transport Infrastructure Ireland and how they handled this process
    What about the serious questions to be asked of Applegreen and how they delayed the opening of the station with their legal carry-on? Why don't you ask that question?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    From today's Gorey Guardian.

    Long, long overdue. Now when will they get cracking on completing the other unfinished services?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,539 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Does Cllr Mythen think that TII funds local healthcare or that leaving the site unsecured would have been a good idea?

    Byrne trying to claim credit for something done on a national scale when he's a councillor; and the project that started this MSA was the pet project of the then minister with responsibility for funding it, from the same constituency is also particularly rich. His influence on it and my influence on it were identical (at nil), can I get my name on the front of the paper?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Patww79 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    If they had a fair reason to take it to court then why didn't they take it all the way?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    serfboard wrote: »
    If they had a fair reason to take it to court then why didn't they take it all the way?

    Settlements are the norm, not the exception.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    They knew full well what they were doing, merely forcing it to stay closed as long as possible.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,960 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    serfboard wrote: »
    If they had a fair reason to take it to court then why didn't they take it all the way?

    The “challenge” served its purpose.

    Applegreen north of Ashford has had a good number of years as the closest thing to “online” along the M11, and is probably close to having paid back it’s initial investment at this stage.

    Same as M9, Applegreen Paulstown has a good 3/4 years before Topaz got their Carlow services opened, and the online services at Kilcullen are still lying dormant


  • Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭Reuben1210


    blackwhite wrote: »
    The “challenge” served its purpose.

    Applegreen north of Ashford has had a good number of years as the closest thing to “online” along the M11, and is probably close to having paid back it’s initial investment at this stage.

    Same as M9, Applegreen Paulstown has a good 3/4 years before Topaz got their Carlow services opened, and the online services at Kilcullen are still lying dormant

    Exactly - a perfectly executed business protection move, taking advantage of the slowness and inefficiency of our planning/legal nexus!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,960 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Reuben1210 wrote: »
    Exactly - a perfectly executed business protection move, taking advantage of the slowness and inefficiency of our planning/legal nexus!

    Online MSAs in other countries typically have a payback period between 3-5 years, I’d be surprised if Applegreen have longer than 5-7 year payback at most on their off-line sites. Delays have definitely protected footfall on their sites for long enough to make it more than worthwhile.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It is possible to seek damages for a vexatious/frivolous claim. Topaz did not do so.

    That the taxpayer are the ones left paying for the costs of the delay is a reflection of the poor tendering process that TII/NTA conducted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    Will future Circle K service area vendors most likely be McDonald's?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭serfboard


    That the taxpayer are the ones left paying for the costs of the delay is a reflection of the poor tendering process that TII/NTA conducted.
    How do you know it was a poor tendering process?

    Are you saying that if it was a good tendering process (whatever that is) and Applegreen lost, that they would not have taken their legal action?

    If so, God love your innocence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Will future Circle K service area vendors most likely be McDonald's?
    Based on what's been built so far, it looks like Circle K featuring McDonalds Vs Applegreen featuring BK.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,249 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    Plus all the "plazas" with Supermacs. Although less loyal with the fuel suppliers, at least one is Texaco while the rest are Topaz.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The Plaza Group seem to be expanding without playing any part in the official TII MSA tendering, they seem to be doing well out of it today.

    It's fully how back in the day the viability of some of these service areas were questioned. We'll soon have one at every junction and there'll still be demand for more.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Did the whole issue with applegreen and topaz come from applegreen lodging a complaint about the thickness of footpaths?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,402 ✭✭✭plodder


    serfboard wrote: »
    How do you know it was a poor tendering process?

    Are you saying that if it was a good tendering process (whatever that is) and Applegreen lost, that they would not have taken their legal action?

    If so, God love your innocence.
    Applegreen have appealed a planning decision for another filling station in Swords (where they have two already). They seem to be quite protective of their territories.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    serfboard wrote: »
    How do you know it was a poor tendering process?

    Are you saying that if it was a good tendering process (whatever that is) and Applegreen lost, that they would not have taken their legal action?

    If so, God love your innocence.

    Because a transparent and safe tendering process would not have been able to generate such legal activity. One of the core aims of a tendering process is to protect against legal action by unsuccessful tenderers.

    You probably shouldn't talk about innocence unless your intention is to be unintentionally ironic, YMMV though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    There is now a new sign on the N7 outbound. The old one said "No online services ahead, offline services at x y and z". Now the new sign says "Services ahead at Birdhill, junction number, and distance".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,960 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    flazio wrote: »
    Plus all the "plazas" with Supermacs. Although less loyal with the fuel suppliers, at least one is Texaco while the rest are Topaz.

    Plazas are a Supermacs led development, not Topaz/Circle K.

    They work as a “dealer” and just buy fuel from Topaz/Circle K and licence the branding etc.
    Hence the shops aren’t the ReStore brand.

    Approx 2 years ago there was an exclusive deal for McD to be Topaz partner on an fast food developments owned by Topaz. Based on Carlow I’d assume it’s still the case


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭secman


    roadmaster wrote: »
    Did the whole issue with applegreen and topaz come from applegreen lodging a complaint about the thickness of footpaths?

    The judicial review was to ask why on a countback having scored equally in overall tender why the footpath was the deciding factor in awarding the contract to the then Topaz group.
    The fit out on M11 station is to start in early August and McDonald's will be in that site too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭Ernest


    There is now a new sign on the N7 outbound. The old one said "No online services ahead, offline services at x y and z". Now the new sign says "Services ahead at Birdhill, junction number, and distance".

    That sounds, in one way, a disimprovement. Has the old sign saying "No online services ahead, offline services at x,y, and z" now actually been removed??

    If the new sign was additional to the old ond and said "Offline service ahead at Birdhill, junction No and distance" that would be helpful but if the old sign showing alternative service areas ahead including whether they are offline or online has been replaced by this new one, then this is a disgrace - removing information about choice and suggesting only one (off-line) service area option.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    secman wrote: »
    The fit out on M11 station is to start in early August

    Source?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 645 ✭✭✭s14driftking


    It should be compulsory fir any service station on a motorway to provide showers espically if there providing truck parking. Disgraceful that very few premises have showers


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭ezra_


    It should be compulsory fir any service station on a motorway to provide showers espically if there providing truck parking. Disgraceful that very few premises have showers

    What online motorway service stations don't have showers?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,341 ✭✭✭D Trent


    ezra_ wrote: »
    What online motorway service stations don't have showers?

    He probably means 24hr showers, Applegreen Lusk, C'Bellingham, and Enfield just have 24hr toilets.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭ezra_


    D Trent wrote: »
    He probably means 24hr showers, Applegreen Lusk, C'Bellingham, and Enfield just have 24hr toilets.

    Fair enough, I didn't know they weren't available 24/7


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The online MSAs should really be 24 hour operations, and not the pissy attempts they are at night. Having outdoor toilets at these premises after 12 simply discourages use and one of the main purposes of these areas is to provide services to people who may be tired.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    Two articles in the Times today about MSAs.

    The first talks again about the end of the legal battle over the Gorey, Kilcullen, and Moate MSAs. Confirmation again that Gorey is due to be open by the end of the year, and Kilcullen and Moate (which will be built by Circle K) are due to open next summer.

    The second article is about Pat McDonagh, who has just resubmitted a planning permission request for a large Barack Obama Plaza-style MSA on the M18 at Ennis (the first on the 101 km stretch of motorway). This MSA will supposedly double as a tourist information centre, with the intention of recruiting tourists travelling between Limerick and Galway, and directing them out into County Clare. Not a bad idea at all. Separately, the article mentions that TII are planning to review their planned MSA developments in the coming year.

    Now that there are offline services available at Ballacolla, Cashel, and Fermoy, does anyone know if TII are planning to drop plans to build online services for the M8?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762



    Now that there are offline services available at Ballacolla, Cashel, and Fermoy, does anyone know if TII are planning to drop plans to build online services for the M8?


    They never had any concrete plans at all. The M8 has always been forgotten from the MSA list.


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    TII planned to open the MSAs in tranches. For many reasons, there are 3 active tranches at present (planned opening dates in brackets)

    Tranche 2: Moate M6 (2019), Kilcullen M9 (2019), Gorey M11 (2018)
    Tranche 3: Foynes Mxx (2025), Ringaskiddy M28 (2024)
    Tranche 4: Dunshaughlin M3 (2020), Oranmore M6/M17/M18 (2020), Newmarket on Fergus M18 (2020)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,333 ✭✭✭Redsoxfan


    marno21 wrote:
    Tranche 2: Moate M6 (2019), Kilcullen M9 (2019), Gorey M11 (2018) Tranche 3: Foynes Mxx (2025), Ringaskiddy M28 (2024) Tranche 4: Dunshaughlin M3 (2020), Oranmore M6/M17/M18 (2020), Newmarket on Fergus M18 (2020)


    Is Moate the one where ramps are already in place?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,539 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    All of Tranche 2 has the bridges in place; Gorey has the building shell also.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,878 ✭✭✭whyulittle


    Cones went up around the M6 Athlone/Moate MSA today.

    A new services sign went up near Kinnegad a few weeks back, with "Athlone Junction 7-8 45 km" on it. Took them a few days to grey-out the 7-8 part.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭fricatus


    whyulittle wrote: »
    A new services sign went up near Kinnegad a few weeks back, with "Athlone Junction 7-8 45 km" on it. Took them a few days to grey-out the 7-8 part.

    Similarly, there's a new sign right at the start of the M9, Waterford end, which mentions services between junctions 2 and 3. It hasn't yet been greyed out...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,901 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    marno21 wrote: »
    TII planned to open the MSAs in tranches. For many reasons, there are 3 active tranches at present (planned opening dates in brackets)

    Tranche 2: Moate M6 (2019), Kilcullen M9 (2019), Gorey M11 (2018)
    Tranche 3: Foynes Mxx (2025), Ringaskiddy M28 (2024)
    Tranche 4: Dunshaughlin M3 (2020), Oranmore M6/M17/M18 (2020), Newmarket on Fergus M18 (2020)

    How can there be a motorway service place for Foynes when the link road will not be a motorway?

    Only the M21 is getting short extension


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    How can there be a motorway service place for Foynes when the link road will not be a motorway?

    Only the M21 is getting short extension
    The port access elements of the M21 and M28 will be single carriageway protected roads, both service areas will be on non motorway protected roads but these roads will be directly connected to the motorway network and will be de facto part of the motorway network, even if they don't have blue signs.

    The Foynes link road from the M21 will be single carriageway due to traffic volume. The M28 will not continue all the way into the Port of Cork due to space constraints.


  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Kevtherev1


    Does anyone have news / progress report for the Gorey Motorway Service area. Is the fit out of the MSA nearly finished. Is it still opening in November or December or has it been delayed


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Kevtherev1 wrote: »
    Does anyone have news / progress report for the Gorey Motorway Service area. Is the fit out of the MSA nearly finished. Is it still opening in November or December or has it been delayed

    Couldn't find anything there when I looked. This indo article from July 2018 says Gorey will be open by the end of the year and M6 and M9 in summer 2019.
    I suppose they still have 2 months to open Gorey.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Couldn't find anything there when I looked. This indo article from July 2018 says Gorey will be open by the end of the year and M6 and M9 in summer 2019.
    I suppose they still have 2 months to open Gorey.

    The Athlone one on the M6 has construction work going on at the moment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,901 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Thread started 10 years a go.

    Demonstrates how slow we are building basic stuff in this country.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Thread started 10 years a go.

    Demonstrates how slow we are building basic stuff in this country.
    In fairness, we did have (IIRC) the largest per-capita bank-bailout in the history of the world in the meantime ...


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    serfboard wrote: »
    In fairness, we did have (IIRC) the largest per-capita bank-bailout in the history of the world in the meantime ...
    MSAs are pocket change in comparison and have significant safety benefits though.

    Thankfully the private sector has mainly sorted this issue, apart from the M18. Whoever wins the M18 MSA race is in for quite the payday.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,201 ✭✭✭ongarboy


    Circle K advertising for shop and deli staff for their Gorey MSA so an opening before Christmas sounds plausible.

    They also say in this article that they'll be opening MSAs in Wexford, Westmeath and 2 in Kildare. Apart from Gorey and Moate, where are the locations of the 2 Kildare MSAs they are referring to, does anyone know?

    https://www.checkout.ie/forecourt-rebrand-comes-full-circle/67422


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    ongarboy wrote: »
    Circle K advertising for shop and deli staff for their Gorey MSA so an opening before Christmas sounds plausible.

    They also say in this article that they'll be opening MSAs in Wexford, Westmeath and 2 in Kildare. Apart from Gorey and Moate, where are the locations of the 2 Kildare MSAs they are referring to, does anyone know?

    https://www.checkout.ie/forecourt-rebrand-comes-full-circle/67422
    Kildare - Kilcullen M9 and the redeveloped one just north of Goffs?


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