TII Motorway Service Areas (MSA) Progress Thread

munchkin_utd · 16-10-2015 8:28am

annfield1978 wrote: »

Public Consultation taking place on site Selection stage for Motorway Service Area on M3

Next thursday in Dunshaughlin

somehow I completely missed the announcement of a prospect of something happening on the M3. (Well.... no doubt I read the words but didnt absorb the info seeing as there was little chance of anything happening during the recession)

This is whats in the NRA strategy document

A Type 1 Service Area is proposed for the route from Dublin to Kells. The section identified is from
Junction 4 (Clonee) to Junction 7 (Blundelstown). Given the complexity of location choice, and the M3
PPP, the Authority, in consultation with Meath County Council, will lead its development.

http://www.tii.ie/tii-library/strategic-planning/service-areas/NRA-Service-Area-Policy-FinalAugust2014-(2).pdf

I cant see anything to indicate where they are thinking of building it.
Probably the most logical place to put it would be there at Bracetown just south of where the Fairyhouse/ Trim road enters and where the toll ends. Theres a disused building site works which seems to be fairly suitable which may mean the most of the land is already owned by the M3 consortium or government and its already taken out of agriculture use.

If they go anywhere near Tara (jn 6 to 7) there'll be war, so I cant see that happening!

Schadenfreudia · 16-10-2015 11:50pm

Four PPP road schemes are mentioned, the first of which, the M17/M18, is already under construction.

The three others are the N17/18 Gort to Tuam scheme; the M11 Gorey to Enniscorthy scheme and the N25 New Ross Bypass

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/roads-allocation-in-capital-plan-includes-surprising-choices-1.2371818

Could anyone explain to myself and the former "paper of record" what the difference between the "M17/M18, already under construction" and the "N17/18 Gort to Tuam scheme" is?

This is important because according to the Irish Times they are two
of only four PPP schemes mentioned in the Government's 2016 - 2022 capital spending plan........:rolleyes:

annfield1978 · 17-10-2015 6:08pm

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/roads-allocation-in-capital-plan-includes-surprising-choices-1.2371818

Could anyone explain to myself and the former "paper of record" what the difference between the "M17/M18, already under construction" and the "N17/18 Gort to Tuam scheme" is?

This is important because according to the Irish Times they are two
of only four PPP schemes mentioned in the Government's 2016 - 2022 capital spending plan........:rolleyes:

Its the same scheme

spacetweek · 17-10-2015 11:16pm

They also state the Enniscorthy and New Ross bypasses as two separate PPPs, but I don't think that's right?

Generally a very poorly written article, just a rehash of the road list from the Gov with very little analysis.

jd · 17-10-2015 11:19pm

spacetweek wrote: »

They also state the Enniscorthy and New Ross bypasses as two separate PPPs, but I don't think that's right?

They were originally one PPP, and then separated. M11 PPP has been signed, New Ross N25 to follow next month.

spacetweek · 20-10-2015 10:10pm

Does anyone have construction updates on the 3 MSAs that are underway at the moment - M6 East Athlone, M9 Kilcullen, M11 Gorey. I know M11 Gorey is complete but closed.
Are the others completed?

D Trent · 20-10-2015 10:18pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Does anyone have construction updates on the 3 MSAs that are underway at the moment - M6 East Athlone, M9 Kilcullen, M11 Gorey. I know M11 Gorey is complete but closed.
Are the others completed?

Just what Radharc has said in his post on previous page - that Applegreens challenge against the Topaz decision for all three has been fast tracked in the commercial court

guylikeme · 20-10-2015 10:39pm

Athlone one had the slip roads and bridge as good as done a month ago when I last passed. Not sure how far along now

D Trent · 27-10-2015 12:02am

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2015/10/26/news/department-not-receiving-payment-for-m2-petrol-ads-304998/

marmurr1916 · 27-10-2015 9:04am

D Trent wrote: »

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2015/10/26/news/department-not-receiving-payment-for-m2-petrol-ads-304998/

Signs like that are common on British motorways. The idea is to let motorists know the cost of fuel so they can decide whether to buy fuel at the upcoming MSA or not.

I don't know why the public authorities would expect money for the placement of the signpost (which is maintained and repaired at Applegreen's expense) - they've already got money from Applegreen to allow them to operate the MSA, which is an official one and thus should be signposted on the motorway.

The fuss over this is yet another indication of just how pathetic politics in Northern Ireland is - I suspect the chief reason for the complaints has got nothing to do with financial concerns but is mainly motivated by the fact that the company operating the MSA is from the republic.

L1011 · 27-10-2015 9:57am

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Signs like that are common on British motorways. The idea is to let motorists know the cost of fuel so they can decide whether to buy fuel at the upcoming MSA or not.

They're not actually. The signs are common, the prices are extremely uncommon. You can almost take it as given they'll be 10p/l dearer than the nearest town, something Applegreen don't do here.

munchkin_utd · 28-10-2015 9:17am

L1011 wrote: »

They're not actually. The signs are common, the prices are extremely uncommon. You can almost take it as given they'll be 10p/l dearer than the nearest town, something Applegreen don't do here.

heres the sign for one of the newest Services in England (Cobham on the M25) which is somthing like 20% service sign and 80% brand information

for me though, theres a McDonalds for a cheap coffee (and a giant queue the day I was there) and a marks and spenser which has pasta salads which at the time was about the only thing available at any english station that our kids would eat.

Branding info is a positive thing as you know what youre getting

serfboard · 28-10-2015 1:55pm

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Branding info is a positive thing as you know what youre getting

Given that the sign has got McDonalds, KFC, Greggs and Starbucks, what you're getting is high-fat, processed, sh1te food, washed down with p1ss-poor coffee

MJohnston · 29-10-2015 12:11pm

They have those branded signs on US roads also:

Always found them very useful.

Carawaystick · 29-10-2015 3:23pm

France has
https://www.google.ie/maps/@42.5649034,2.8444363,3a,18.9y,13.18h,90.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHDr8R1F7uhD86jsen6Z6mg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
followed up the road by
https://www.google.ie/maps/@42.5673644,2.8440703,3a,85.2y,51.9h,70.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soXWorL2BSrIGdJwZYRa-ww!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
and the next petrol brand distance on again
https://www.google.ie/maps/@42.5692572,2.8439388,3a,75y,349.75h,74.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNRv0H2H5KfoDL82qyuaq8Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Spain has
https://www.google.ie/maps/@41.9152892,2.7740378,3a,75y,175.73h,87.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdiCfF3io72oxe4shNzaItQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

blackwhite · 29-10-2015 3:31pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

France has
https://www.google.ie/maps/@42.5649034,2.8444363,3a,18.9y,13.18h,90.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHDr8R1F7uhD86jsen6Z6mg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
followed up the road by
https://www.google.ie/maps/@42.5673644,2.8440703,3a,85.2y,51.9h,70.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soXWorL2BSrIGdJwZYRa-ww!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
and the next petrol brand distance on again
https://www.google.ie/maps/@42.5692572,2.8439388,3a,75y,349.75h,74.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNRv0H2H5KfoDL82qyuaq8Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Spain has
https://www.google.ie/maps/@41.9152892,2.7740378,3a,75y,175.73h,87.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdiCfF3io72oxe4shNzaItQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Many of the MW companies in France will have a sign within a few KM of passing the toll booth that lists the pump prices for all online-services for the next 100-150km.

The tolled MWs in France are operated by a number of difference companies, so the requirements are different from road to raod.

marmurr1916 · 29-10-2015 5:32pm

L1011 wrote: »

They're not actually. The signs are common, the prices are extremely uncommon. You can almost take it as given they'll be 10p/l dearer than the nearest town, something Applegreen don't do here.

I live in England, regularly travel up and down the A1(M). There are signs with the fuel prices displayed in advance of every MSA I pass on my trips.

Yeah, the fuel prices at British MSAs are normally significantly higher than the nearest town but they're still very busy. And the fuel prices are displayed on signs in advance of the MSAs. Maybe it's a new thing and only the newer signs for MSAs have the prices displayed.

marmurr1916 · 29-10-2015 5:33pm

serfboard wrote: »

Given that the sign has got McDonalds, KFC, Greggs and Starbucks, what you're getting is high-fat, processed, sh1te food, washed down with p1ss-poor coffee

You can always pop into the M&S for your organic lentils and Tibetan glacier spring water.

L1011 · 29-10-2015 5:38pm

marmurr1916 wrote: »

I live in England, regularly travel up and down the A1(M). There are signs with the fuel prices displayed in advance of every MSA I pass on my trips.

Yeah, the fuel prices at British MSAs are normally significantly higher than the nearest town but they're still very busy. And the fuel prices are displayed on signs in advance of the MSAs...

The actual MSAs (as opposed to on-road petrol stations on the APDC sections) I've checked on the A1(M) have no priceboards on the September 2014 Google Streetview. Have they all gone up since then?

The convention in the UK is the name (often legally altered to ensure a "MOTO COSTA M&S" style can be used) and patches for services offered, and no more. In a few tens of thousands of KM in the UK I've seen one single board, which I remember solely because it was so bloody unusual.

yachtsman · 31-10-2015 11:20am

Is it known how much the new MSS junction at Athlone has cost? It's not apparent on the TII website.

annfield1978 · 11-11-2015 5:18pm

M6 Motorway Services Area

Transport Infrastructure Ireland is holding a Public Consultation to obtain people’s views and comments on the Site Selection Phase for the proposed M6 Motorway Service Area between Junction 17 (Athenry) and Junction 19 (Oranmore) (The Study Area).

The Public Consultation will be held at:

Oranmore Lodge Hotel,
Oranmore, Galway.

On Wednesday 18 November

From 4pm to 8pm

http://connachttribune.ie/planned-new-m6-service-station-causes-concern/

Carawaystick · 11-11-2015 5:28pm

This seems like a poor use of money. Is there any open NRA service on the M8 or M7?

There will be 3 nra services from Dublin to Galway
Plus Pat McDonaghs and Athlone

Chris_5339762 · 11-11-2015 10:06pm

3 good NRA MSAs Dublin to Galway. (Plus some private ones)

0 good NRA MSAs Dublin to Cork. (Plus a few ok but generally poor private ones).

And no current plans to build any either, its really stupid.

D Trent · 11-11-2015 10:11pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

There will be 3 nra services from Dublin to Galway
Plus Pat McDonaghs and Athlone

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

3 good NRA MSAs Dublin to Galway. (Plus some private ones)

Which 3?

Applegreen Enfield Eastbound and Westbound would count as 1 seeing as theyre literally across carriageway from each other

Middle Man · 11-11-2015 10:22pm

D Trent wrote: »

Which 3?

Applegreen Enfield Eastbound and Westbound would count as 1 seeing as theyre literally across carriageway from each other

Enfield on the M4 (double sided), Athlone on the M6 (proposed single sided) and near Athenry on the M6 (the one subject to planning).

marno21 · 11-11-2015 10:25pm

Middle Man wrote: »

Enfield on the M4 (double sided), Athlone on the M6 (proposed single sided) and near Athenry on the M6 (the one subject to planning).

The M6 one is ridiculous, too close to Galway and there's going to be enough weaving traffic in that area with the Rathmorrissey interchange.

Someone out there really wants a service area between J17 and J19. The one tacked onto the Rathmorissey roundabout has already been canned.

Middle Man · 11-11-2015 10:49pm

marno21 wrote: »

The M6 one is ridiculous, too close to Galway and there's going to be enough weaving traffic in that area with the Rathmorrissey interchange.

Someone out there really wants a service area between J17 and J19. The one tacked onto the Rathmorissey roundabout has already been canned.

Perhaps midway between J15 (Ballinasloe) and J16 (Loughrea) would have been better given the distance between those junctions. The former proposal at Rathmorrissey was exactly as you said: tacked on! Because of that stupid idea, we now have an expensive, but inferior 3 level stack under construction instead of an Irish style parclo interchange like what's on the M50 except scaled up given the space available.

D Trent · 11-11-2015 11:05pm

Middle Man wrote: »

Perhaps midway between J15 (Ballinasloe) and J16 (Loughrea) would have been better given the distance between those junctions. The former proposal at Rathmorrissey was exactly as you said: tacked on! Because of that stupid idea, we now have an expensive, but inferior 3 level stack under construction instead of an Irish style parclo interchange like what's on the M50 except scaled up given the space available.

Where the new one is proposed will allow traffic from M17 and M18 to access MSA (primarily HGV's) and return to them routes easily

All future tranches of MSAs will have an overbridge unlike Enfield Lusk and Castlebellingham

TII will be thinking once MSA is advertised to all traffic it will cut out fatigue related collisions

serfboard · 12-11-2015 1:18pm

D Trent wrote: »

Where the new one is proposed will allow traffic from M17 and M18 to access MSA (primarily HGV's) and return to them routes easily

That's it. We can't just think of traffic going from Galway to Dublin - think of Cork->Donegal to appreciate the benefit of this. Also, if you were going Clifden->Dublin this would be good too.

marno21 wrote: »

The M6 one is ridiculous, too close to Galway

I can see why you think that - I was one of those that thought that the Lusk service station was ridiculous, being too close to Dublin, but having driven Galway->Belfast quite a few times it's actually in a great location, and I was more than glad of it.

Carawaystick · 12-11-2015 5:52pm

serfboard wrote: »

That's it. We can't just think of traffic going from Galway to Dublin - think of Cork->Donegal to appreciate the benefit of this. Also, if you were going Clifden->Dublin this would be good too.

I can see why you think that - I was one of those that thought that the Lusk service station was ridiculous, being too close to Dublin, but having driven Galway->Belfast quite a few times it's actually in a great location, and I was more than glad of it.

If the nra think its too much hassle to use any of the stops immediately off the Athlone bypass, then going off along a motorway only to go back seems bananas.

TII Motorway Service Areas (MSA) Progress Thread

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