Documenting Ireland's cycle lanes

coolbeans

AstraMonti wrote: »

Sorry haven't read the whole thread

I think you should read the thread. You'd be much less surprised.

-Chris-

Inspired by this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzE-IMaegzQ

and the Motors Obnoxious Parking thread

I'm starting to document specific blockages of cycle lanes in Dublin, such as cars parked or construction signs. I'm just going to put them on Twitter/Twitpic with the hashtag #bikelanedublin.
Of course if you don't live in Dublin, feel free to start #bikelanegalway or whatever...


Join me!!

monument

Each time you think there's much hope for the city council, they go do something to change your mind... on the part-opened canal "premium route"...

These were installed along the Wilton Terrace section of the cycle track, it's not clear if they are to be used at other points...

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/5842/164730.JPG

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/5842/164732.JPG

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/5842/164735.JPG

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/5842/164738.JPG

A few points:

• These are pointless, mostly useful to wheelchairs but the canal path along here isn't currently attractive to wheelchairs.
  
• Most pedestrians will cross at any point along the section and any cyclist who won't stop for the disabled, old, or a pram won't be stopped or slowed by these tiles
  
• Each of the times I've tried them when wet my bicycle's back wheel skidded, even at very slow speed
  
• The tiles don't seem like they were made for bicycles -- the surface is too slippery and the bumps in them seem too high
  
• There's increased danger of a cyclist-cyclist or cyclists-pedestrian collision as some cyclists try to avoid going over them
  
• Cyclists will also have to deal with pedestrian walking along the path at these points causing further conflicts

tomasrojo

monument wrote: »

There's increased danger of a cyclist-cyclist or cyclists-pedestrian collision as some cyclists try to avoid going over them

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/5842/164730.JPG
Looking at that view, my first instinct would be to swing right and then back left to avoid the two dodgy-looking patches.

I noticed a van using the facility to make deliveries. It's not open yet, but I wonder whether this will continue when it is open.

I rather like the look of it so far, but I'm prepared to be disappointed ... again.

BostonB

I've never crossed those panels on a bike. But on a car when we had the snow, those ridge tiles, and the ones with raised dimples, were like glass.

monument

tomasrojo wrote: »

I rather like the look of it so far, but I'm prepared to be disappointed ... again.

Overall, I also like the look of it.

But it will depend on some fine details like if these tiles are going to stay or even be put elsewhere, the final junction details, the traffic light sequence, and things like the boardwalk (which is looking wider than I was thinking it would be).

gottarun

Those tiles are textured to identify crossing points for blind people.

There will most likely be a set of traffic lights or pedestrian crossing introduced there.

monument

gottarun wrote: »

Those tiles are textured to identify crossing points for blind people.

There will most likely be a set of traffic lights or pedestrian crossing introduced there.

No, the main ones in the last post are to slow cyclist. The thinking behind them is that cyclists would be able to go too fast if uninterrupted and would not slow or stop at the crossing points.

The tiles with circler bumps identify crossings for blind people.

Bunnyhopper

gottarun wrote: »

Those tiles are textured to identify crossing points for blind people.

There will most likely be a set of traffic lights or pedestrian crossing introduced there.

But look at the set on the left of this picture:

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/5842/164730.JPG

Cross there and you're going to trip over the kerb. It seems to be between two sections of dished kerb.

tomasrojo

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

But look at the set on the left of this picture:

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/5842/164730.JPG

Cross there and you're going to trip over the kerb. It seems to be between two sections of dished kerb.

Yeah, it certainly looks as if the intention of the tiles in that image is to slow cyclists down for pedestrians.

The cycle lane (really a painted bit of footpath) that emerges from the Sandyford Industrial Estate onto the Upper Kilmacud Road has yellow rumble strips painted onto it as it approaches a bus stop. Irish engineers really do think this way.

ThisRegard

Near me there's a set of those rumble strips on a bloody bend, had the back wheel step out on me one evening in the damp, I usually pop onto the pedestrian side when I get to these but this particular spot, which is on a bend as I mentioned, has fencing so you can't see around the corner to check for either other cyclists or pedestrians coming towards you.

Kintarō Hattori

I posted this a moment or two ago in the Obnoxious Parking thread on the Motors forum. While strolling back to the office I saw this:



Owner parked it up on Parnell Street (outside the Woolshed) with the hazzards flashing and strolled across into Penneys. Not only is he blocking a lane of traffic but he's also blocking the cyclelane at a junction. A cyclist would have to swing out past his car while trying to keep an eye on the traffic turning right onto Parnell Street from Jervis Street.

Cookie_Monster

Haven't thought to get a picture but google street view will do
http://maps.google.com/?ll=53.249283,-6.134727&spn=0.0038,0.031285&z=16&layer=c&cbll=53.249233,-6.134551&panoid=7IjKOThbZjaK4Qc1WRCJdA&cbp=12,209.76,,0,13.21

This pedestrian lights strikes me as particularly stupid. It makes pedestrians wait in the cycle lane for the lights to change rather than on the footpath, needlessly putting them in the way. You'll also notice that despite the yield triangle on the floor the cycle lane is not inside the lights and therefore not subject to them so cyclists have no reason to stop when the crossing is active, unless peds are approaching the lane across it. This will inevitably lead to further conflicts as cyclist will not likely stop...

FatSh!te

tomasrojo wrote: »

Yeah, it certainly looks as if the intention of the tiles in that image is to slow cyclists down for pedestrians.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attac...1&d=1309088509

These are typically placed to give a "tactile" warning to visually impared pedestrians that they are entering an area of conflict or shared space. I thought they were supposed to be parallel bars which should not impede a cyclist (and I haven't had any trouble with them in my experience). In the past they are often placed the wrong way around - and feel like rumble strips on the bike.

"Corduroy Hazard Warning Surface:

The purpose of the corduroy surface is to warn visually impaired people of the presence of specific hazards: steps, level crossings or the approach to on-street light rapid transit (LRT) platforms. It is also used where a footway joins a shared route (see Chapter 5). It conveys the message ’hazard, proceed with caution’.

&

2.5.6 Shared facilities: The corduroy surface should also be used where a footpath or footway joins a segregated shared

route for cyclist’s and pedestrians on the cyclist’s side (see Chapter 5, section 5.5.2.1).

On the pedestrian side, the surface should be installed with the bars running transversely across the

direction of travel (Figure 29).

On the cyclist side, the surface should be laid with the bars running in the direction of travel

"

That's from this document - Department for Transport - Guidance on the use of tactile paving surfaces. Theres a load more on cycle lane tactile paving in there.

They appear a little mis placed in some of these pictures. They are very confusing in most places I've seen them today to be honest.

Hope that's helpful.

monument

In this case the tiles were put down to slow cyclists and do nothing but slow cyclists.

On shared facilities elsewhere, where tiles like these are also put down -- Both cyclist groups and groups representing blind people have voiced concern over the designs of such shared facilities.

Really, in most cases shared facilities in Dublin are an abuse of the idea of shared space. Shared facilities can work where its very open space with not too many people (ie at least the width of a mid size street and without the amount of people say on Henry or Grafton Street) or where there's a small space like a shotcut into an estate or on to a canal bank etc. Shared space does not work well on (even large) footpath-sized areas along longer distances (ie along a road).

Doctor Bob

I saw these slabs in situ, before the final surface was applied to the track, but then they disappeared and I hoped someone had had second thoughts. Sadly not.

They're unnecessary, sometimes dangerous and, as far as I'm aware, neither required nor legislated for in Ireland. The excerpt posted by FatSh!te above is UK guidance, which seems to have gained a foothold here (climate of fear/insurance paranoia/lack of native guidance?).

But even allowing that they're required, it looks like the wrong type has been used here (and elsewhere). The corduroy paving that seems to be recommended for cycling is this stuff:



(See here: http://www.pavingexpert.com/tactile01.htm#cyc The site is a bit of a mid-'90s design timewarp, but the info seems reliable.)

It appears to have a much wider groove. Still not great, but not as bad as some bus stops around the city where hazard warning tactile paving has been used- I think that's the lethal stuff.

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

But look at the set on the left of this picture:

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/5842/164730.JPG

Cross there and you're going to trip over the kerb. It seems to be between two sections of dished kerb.

The dished kerb on the left edge of that picture seems to be for bikes to join/leave the track. The pedestrian crossing point is between two opposing dished kerbs- you can see some blister paving set into the verge on the right hand edge of the pic. I don't think it's the intention to have visually impaired people cross into a raised kerb. (But one can't be too sure... ) I suspect some line markings might be added at some point, when the bike logos will presumably also go down. (Pedestrians please note!)

Having grumbled a bit, it's probably worth ending on a positive note- the surface quality is great. (Probably not much better than your average regional road on de Continent, but leagues ahead of much of Dublin city centre. Although I do wish they'd moved the manhole covers... Oh wait, this was supposed to be a positive ending!)

monument

I keep telling myself I won't be surprised at how bad cycle lanes are, but I just keep finding dreadful examples. Found this while looking for something else...

On a 2.5km stretch along the Hunters Road and Oldcourt Road:

• Six bus stops where you have to go back onto the road and then back on to the off-road track at near right angles
  
• Including on a bend, on a hill, here on street view
  
• Five side roundabouts where you're brought off to the side and your priority is taken away
  
• Two other side roads where priority is taken away or at least muddled

SHOVELLER

Wilton Terrace was finally finished today. While the cycle lane has been open for a while now the footpath nearest to it has been completely relaid plus there is a small plaza at the end as you pass over the canal opposite the Mespil Hotel.

Now stupid pedestrians have no excuse!

BostonB

They seem to close the footpath there a lot forcing the pedestrians onto the road/cycle lane.

tomasrojo

Are the bicycle traffic lights operational now?

Darkglasses

On the Grand Canal cycle path? Last time I went out there one of them was, the rest are still covered up.

SHOVELLER

BostonB wrote: »

They seem to close the footpath there a lot forcing the pedestrians onto the road/cycle lane.

No as said that is all finished now.

Rock of Gibraltar

monument wrote: »

Just thinking out loud here, and feel free to rip this idea apart, but what if you were to split the street here with a segregated two way cycle path down the middle?

So from left to right here you'd have bus lane with stops, bus/car lane, kerb, wide two way cycle path, embankment, car lane, car lane.
Push the stopping point for cars back a few metres at the junction with the quays, when lights are red for northbound traffic give a green cycle light for going left when north facing and for north bound cyclists to move to the left of the street before a general green light is given.
Similar lights arrangement for southbound cyclist from the bridge and quay.

Mycroft H

I've never had a problem with O connell bridge. Be quick, decisive and hold your lane.

monument

Rock of Gibraltar wrote: »

Just thinking out loud here, and feel free to rip this idea apart, but what if you were to split the street here with a segregated two way cycle path down the middle?

So from left to right here you'd have bus lane with stops, bus/car lane, kerb, wide two way cycle path, embankment, car lane, car lane.
Push the stopping point for cars back a few metres at the junction with the quays, when lights are red for northbound traffic give a green cycle light for going left when north facing and for north bound cyclists to move to the left of the street before a general green light is given.
Similar lights arrangement for southbound cyclist from the bridge and quay.

They had the cycle lanes on O'Connell Street originally to the right running along the medium. It was footpath | bus lane | traffic lane | cycle lane | medium | cycle lane | traffic lane | bus lane | footpath. The problem was getting cyclists back to the left at the end and into the middle at the start.

It could of had a chance of working if it was feeding into two-way lanes on on Westmorland and D'Olier streets, but now that BXD is planned to go down they may even be taking the current cycle lanes out of O'Connell Street and there's no chance of having a one at the medium northbound.

tomasrojo

monument wrote: »

It could of had a chance of working if it was feeding into two-way lanes on on Westmorland and D'Olier streets, but now that BXD is planned to go down they may even be taking the current cycle lanes out of O'Connell Street

Because they'll be narrowing the road?

petethedrummer

BX 19 wrote: »

I've never had a problem with O connell bridge. Be quick, decisive and hold your lane.

+1

Sometimes no markings are better. I'd rather make my own mind up where I'm gonna position myself on Westmoreland Street and O'Connell bridge.

BostonB

The problem with redesigns like this, is they are done so randomly, and inconsistently it impossible to see it as a plan being implemented. So it appears as if its a cynical budget spending exercise.

tomasrojo

Dublin City FM talking about Grand Canal Route now. Opens on 22nd officially.

EDIT: Strong attempt by presenter to go Helmet-thread there too. Neatly deflected by Dublin City Council rep. Didn't catch who it is. Ciarán Fallon maybe?

dited

tomasrojo wrote: »

Dublin City FM talking about Grand Canal Route now. Opens on 22nd officially.

The new traffic lights at Charlemont St/Charlemont place were certainly operational (and being roundly ignored by cyclists and motorists alike) on my way home yesterday evening.