Documenting Ireland's cycle lanes

monument · 28-11-2008 4:50am #1

Documenting Dublin's cycle lanes is something I've been thinking about his for a while*...

It may be prompted now by my interaction with motorists and multi-lane roads on my new commute to DCU sky-rocketing compared to my last year commute to Ballyfermot, but it has been in my mind since the DTO published their maps of apparent cycle lanes in Dublin. Getting a new bike this week helps too

There's a public flickr group if anybody is interisted in contributing photographs...

Documenting Dublin's cycle lanes

But, if you want, you can also contribute info, such as the location of...

dangerous,useless, poorly designed,and cycle lanes
poorly maintained cycle lanes
lanes where cars are always parked (by design or not).

The main point of this is highlighting the bad and the ugly.
[* for readers of the My Little Piebald email, yes they mentioned it yesterday, but I have been thinking about it recently]

monument · 28-11-2008 4:51am

Off the top of my head, I already know about...

Docklands, north and south quays – very long list of problems
Docklands – newly planned area, but bar the much flawed ones on the quays where are the cycle lanes?
Phoenix Park – cyclists complain about peds on cycle lanes, park rangers told to ask ped not to do such, peds complain about rangers, rangers told to stop
Phoenix Park – legally questionable?
O’Connell St – with buses stop lining both sides, cycle lanes should have been on right side of north and southbound corridors
Upper Ormond Quay - curve puts buses at close reach
North Curcle Road - is this a cycle lane or not?
Royal Canal bridge on Prospect Rd - limited space
St Mobhi Rd -- cyclists going both ways expected to use one average sized cycle lane on one footpath and lamp polls, bins etc in same cycle lane
St Mobhi Rd, start of southbound – on-road section of bike lane marked as northbound (painted bicycle wrong way around)
[bus lane] Conyngham Rd, eastbound – poor surface with large pot holes
Conyngham Rd, westbound – cars parking spaces with meter marked out
Chapelizod Rd, westbound – lanes go up an down along drive ways where there is enough space on the road for cyclists
Chapelizod Rd, westbound – lane ends dangerously
Ballyfermot Rd, eastbound – cars on school run often parked on half on the lane and half on the footpath
Ballyfermot Rd, westbound – residents cars parked on lane
Ballyfermot Rd at Garyowen Rd – cyclists asked to mount path, but not well designed or maintained, and legal standing questionable
National War Memorial Park – cycle / walking path feeds into it at west end, but dismount is required and sign at east end says no cycling even where cars are allowed?
Inchicore Rd eastbound, at Memorial Rd – no cycle light with ped lights or other clear way to gain access to two-way cycle lane on one-way street
Inchicore Rd westbound, at Memorial Rd – problem crossing with crossing from two-way cycle lane to continue to Inchicore village
Inchicore Rd / South Circular Rd / Kilmainham Lane junction – cycle and ped but no clear marking on both sides of the road
Inchicore Rd / South Circular Rd / Kilmainham Lane junction – problem with parking or set downs outside Hilton Dublin Kilmainham hotel???
Sarsfield Rd eastbound – cyclists direct on to legally questionable on footpath lane for just a mere few meters
Sarsfield Rd westbound – poor cleaning maintenance where lane goes inside traffic calming
Kylemore Rd to Jamestown Rd -- no linkage between cycle lanes in industrial estate and Jamestown Rd
Arran Quay – buses pulling in a danger to cyclists going straight on
Church Street – Garda cars often parked on lane – I’ve seen this happen a good few times recently
St Andrews St – Are An Post vans often parked on contraflow lane? I’ve seen it a few times and a use of this board has a now infamous pic of it, but does it happen a lot?
Millennium (Ped) Bridge – much wider than most dual cycle / footpaths, so why are cyclists not allowed on it?
Sean O'Casey Bridge – again, much wider than most dual cycle / footpaths, so why are cyclists not allowed on it?
R105 bridge (name?) east of Custom House – legally question over southbound on footpaths lane?
East Wall Road eastbound – poor surface on footpaths lane (has this been fixed?)
St Johns Road West, eastbound – cycle lane leading up to road, but bus lane switches to bus only lane and cycles expected to use lane on footpath with no ramp on to path and road not suited to unnecessary dismount
St Johns Road West, eastbound – on footpath cycle lane poorly designed and maintained, lacks space and not cleaned regularly (notable good ending)

And outside direct government remit...

DCU, Ballymun Road entrance -- speed rams hinder bikes more than cars
DCU, many ped are -- more than enough room but (largely unenforced) cycle ban, while security and constructions vans etc regularly drive about

Other things of note, but not cycle lanes…

Naas Rd / Kylemore Rd junction – barriers installed to protect peds are a danger to cyclists, also block peds where cars keep (illegally) stopping at gap in barriers

EDIT: With the help of Google and Microsoft maps reminding me aloing the way, that was a good deal longer than off the top of my head!

cyclopath2001 · 28-11-2008 8:44am

I think you'd also need to factor in the many cycle tracks that are placed next to lines of parked cars without the safety gap recommended by the DTO design guide. Fairview outbound is a prime example & it seems to me that recently, they've actually narrowed the parking bays, resulting in many cars being parked partially in the cycle track.

The inbound cycle track through the park has about 100m of unsurfaced dirt track as a feature.

Caroline_ie · 28-11-2008 9:57am

Not to undermind your work, but knowing where cycle lanes are and looks like will not make me take one route rather than another. I will cycle regardless of the state of the cyclepath, since, I probably won't use it ... this initiatve would be a good idea for kids and some commuters, I guess though.

What I'd to see would be a ring-cyclepath though, following the M50 ... we could call it the B50

Morgan · 28-11-2008 10:49am

Cyclopath2001 above has a site documenting some problematic bikes lanes.

http://www.geocities.com/cyclopath2001/Page1.htm

It's an interesting project - if only to show how wretched bike lanes are in general. This site has dozens of classics:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/wcc/facility-of-the-month/index.htm

Flickr has a mapping facility so you can show exactly where each photo was taken.

Turbulent Bill · 28-11-2008 11:26am

I think someone from DCC had a site with photos of dodgy cycle lanes (i.e., most of them), maybe contact them about it.

Harpz · 28-11-2008 12:47pm

A map with clickable icons to see the individual photos would work much better IMO.
I think the emphasis should be on showing how these lanes could be improved rather than just complaining.
Anyone want to volunteer to set up such a map?? We could have a thread...or a link on the wiki where people can upload their pics and link the coordinates to the map. I can't do it though as I have no mad technology skillz.

monument · 28-11-2008 3:36pm

Morgan wrote: »

Flickr has a mapping facility so you can show exactly where each photo was taken.

Harpz wrote: »

A map with clickable icons to see the individual photos would work much better IMO.

I've now geo taged my photos, so thanks to flickr, a group map has been generated...

Documenting Dublin's cycle lanes group map

For those who don't know about flickr, you can get a free account, upload images, place them on a map, and then add them to the group.

But free accounts have limits -- there a upload limit of 100MB each calendar month and you can only store 200 photos (if you upload more the old ones are hidden until you upgrade)... but that's not too bad for free.

Morgan wrote: »

Cyclopath2001 above has a site documenting some problematic bikes lanes.

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

I think someone from DCC had a site with photos of dodgy cycle lanes (i.e., most of them), maybe contact them about it.

I know of the work by others, and I'd just like to say I don't mean to undermine it. What I'm trying to do is make this into a group project and have it as open as possible.

And Flickr has limitations, but it means less work than starting the tech side off from scratch.

Harpz wrote: »

I think the emphasis should be on showing how these lanes could be improved rather than just complaining.

Once I get the pics up I will try do so.

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

I think you'd also need to factor in the many cycle tracks that are placed next to lines of parked cars without the safety gap recommended by the DTO design guide.

Will do, I thought one was mentioned in the list, but I can't see it now.

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

...Fairview outbound is a prime example & it seems to me that recently, they've actually narrowed the parking bays, resulting in many cars being parked partially in the cycle track.

The inbound cycle track through the park has about 100m of unsurfaced dirt track as a feature.

The park in Fairview is it?

Caroline_ie wrote: »

Not to undermind your work, but knowing where cycle lanes are and looks like will not make me take one route rather than another. I will cycle regardless of the state of the cyclepath, since, I probably won't use it ... this initiatve would be a good idea for kids and some commuters, I guess though.

I won't use a lot of them too. And the main point of this is to highlight the bad and ugly we're expected to use and which is provided for our use, but in a large amount of cases unsafe or otherwise useless.

"will not make me take one route rather than another"... I would have agreed, but try going from the Botanic Road to DCU first using the St Mobhi Rd (R108) and then try via Glasnevin Hill. As I found, the latter, with less traffic on more open roads, one less traffic light, few buses compared to the former, and no real difference in distance is a lot more relaxing in the morning. And likely safer too.

Caroline_ie wrote: »

What I'd to see would be a ring-cyclepath though, following the M50 ... we could call it the B50

Victor here on boards has mentioned this a number of times -- it might not be the most direct but that would be made up by no stopping etc, ie a cycling (moter)way.

monument · 28-11-2008 4:05pm

Also, here's a more rememberable URL...

http://www.flickr.com/groups/dublincyclelanes/

And the map is here...

http://www.flickr.com/groups/dublincyclelanes/map/

Harpz · 28-11-2008 4:45pm

good work, the map looks great. Any chance a link to it from the wiki?
also let blorg know. He's a good man for taking pictures....and sometimes cycling.

cyclopath2001 · 28-11-2008 7:30pm

Documenting the cycletracks will certainly help demonstrate to others that the alleged facilities are farcical.

But, the real biggie for campaigners is to get the laws reformed at least so that:

Cycle tracks operate 24x7
No parking or driving on them at any time.
Councils required to obey relevant regulations.

Bunnyhopper · 29-11-2008 2:34pm

This looks useful, Monument. I had a stab at getting it onto a google map, using the feed from the flickr pool.

I've made some progress, but I wonder is there anyone who knows about google map coding? As it is, the map loads thumbnails of the images from flickr and overlays them on the map, but I'd like to make the image appear in the info window along with a link to the flickr page.

Any ideas...?

http://skangerland.atspace.com/cyclemap.html

Freewheeling Ed · 30-11-2008 8:27pm

IMG_2464.JPG

This is the cycle track at Kilmainham.
Its seems they got a normal car lane and added a cycle lane, reducing the car lane to a really narrow lane, and so most cars just ignore the cycle track.

monument · 09-12-2008 7:28pm

I've been sick and busy so haven't got time to capture many on my list yet. But the group has grown slowly and I did change the groups icon...

Harpz wrote: »

also let blorg know.

Done. Thanks.

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

Any ideas...?

Don't know. But, while I prefer Google Maps myself, the flickr / Yahoo map works well for photos.

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Documenting the cycletracks will certainly help demonstrate to others that the alleged facilities are farcical.

But, the real biggie for campaigners is to get the laws reformed at least so that:

Cycle tracks operate 24x7
No parking or driving on them at any time.
Councils required to obey relevant regulations.

Hopefully documenting the lanes will be an aid to those campaigners.

Freewheeling Ed wrote: »

IMG_2464.JPG

This is the cycle track at Kilmainham.
Its seems they got a normal car lane and added a cycle lane, reducing the car lane to a really narrow lane, and so most cars just ignore the cycle track.

Did you take that picture? Do you mind if I upload it to my flickr account and add it to the group, I can give credit to your boards user name if you want?

Freewheeling Ed · 09-12-2008 8:02pm

monument wrote: »

Did you take that picture? Do you mind if I upload it to my flickr account and add it to the group, I can give credit to your boards user name if you want?

I did take it..
do what you like with it, thats why I posted it , not worried about a credit.

If I see more , and have the camera will keep posting them.

monument · 09-12-2008 8:05pm

Freewheeling Ed wrote: »

I did take it..
do what you like with it, thats why I posted it , not worried about a credit.

If I see more , and have the camera will keep posting them.

Thanks.

cyclopath2001 · 09-12-2008 8:21pm

Freewheeling Ed wrote: »

IMG_2464.JPGThis is the cycle track at Kilmainham. ...Its seems they got a normal car lane and added a cycle lane, reducing the car lane to a really narrow lane, and so most cars just ignore the cycle track.

The car lane seems plenty wide. What's happened is that the drivers are using the cycle track to squeeze past the right-hand turning car at the head of the queue.

Not especially illegal as it's a dual-use car and cycle track, although it could be deemed to be obstructive driving.

The practice of drivers making two lanes out of one is questionable though.

Freewheeling Ed · 09-12-2008 8:49pm

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

The car lane seems plenty wide. What's happened is that the drivers are using the cycle track to squeeze past the right-hand turning car at the head of the queue.

Not especially illegal as it's a dual-use car and cycle track, although it could be deemed to be obstructive driving.

The practice of drivers making two lanes out of one is questionable though.

The picture does not really show it, but it is an abnormally narrow car lane.
It is just (and I mean "just" ) wide enough for a car.

The cars they are passing at the jucntion, have their own seperate lane.

The cars in the cycle lane, could do better, but the lane they are in is very narrow, so most of them just ignore the cycle lane. Bad planning is the real problem, I suppose.

It needs another picture really.

cyclopath2001 · 09-12-2008 8:57pm

Freewheeling Ed wrote: »

Bad planning is the real problem,

If you make a complaint to the City Council, they'll solve the problem.........by removing the cycle track.

blorg · 09-12-2008 9:18pm

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

If you make a complaint to the City Council, they'll solve the problem.........by removing the cycle track.

To be honest I wouldn't mind if they did this on a blanket basis and got rid of the lot, I am not a great cycle track fan.

I stuck 4 up. One of them is in Abbeyleix but it is quite a classic, let me know if you want it OUT of the pool.

I generally carry a camera everywhere so I'll try to get shots of some good ones.

monument · 10-12-2008 12:05am

blorg wrote: »

I stuck 4 up. One of them is in Abbeyleix but it is quite a classic, let me know if you want it OUT of the pool. I generally carry a camera everywhere so I'll try to get shots of some good ones.

No... leave it in it. It is quite classic.

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

If you make a complaint to the City Council, they'll solve the problem.........by removing the cycle track.

Lots of lanes need to be removed or fixed. Being removed is better than the dangerous or otherwise unusable state hey are currently in. You'll have some cyclists put in danger using them, others won't use them and get abuse from some drives for such.

But I don't think the council will remove lanes on any large scale as to do so would harm the myth of investing in cycling lanes. With so many poorly designed lanes, money has been misused.

blorg · 10-12-2008 10:38am

I put up a few more there from my commute this morning. To be honest my commute is probably along some of the best cycle lanes in Dublin (Ranelagh-Sandyford) so I don't have a lot of griping, if all of Dublin had cycle lanes of this quality I think we would be doing OK

I included an example of what I would consider to be good merging of an off-road track at a junction, as well as bad merging further on.

Good Junction - merge well in advance of the junction

3096900627_e1ebd308ca.jpg?v=0

Bad Junction - merge at the exact point of the filter lane

3096900621_2fb535708e.jpg?v=0

Gavin · 10-12-2008 1:19pm

Sorry, just thought it was funny

mmclo · 10-12-2008 1:23pm

DCC have appointed an engineer to look after cycling, he's a former Green Party Cllr in Dun Laoghaire

http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2008/nov/30/greens-hit-as-third-councillor-resigns-in-a-year/

Maybe the images should be pitched to a journalist or photo editor over the Chrismas when things are quite

Any chance of extending the photos to canal towpaths? I use Royal Canal as far as Ashtown then it becomes impassable, there are some bizzare barriers and ramps on it presumably aimed at scrambler bikes!

blorg · 10-12-2008 1:23pm

Is that...

A PEDESTRIAN in the cycle lane!?! :mad:

cyclopath2001 · 10-12-2008 11:47pm

mmclo wrote: »

DCC have appointed an engineer to look after cycling!

The biggest problem is not the engineering or design....it's those laws passed by the PDs back in 1998.

monument · 12-12-2008 6:07pm

Some new pics:

Cycle tracks are not for Christmas...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cianginty/3097410525/in/pool-dublincyclelanes/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cianginty/3097408423/in/pool-dublincyclelanes/

A bin and a poll fit nicely in the middle of a lane...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cianginty/3098227754/in/pool-dublincyclelanes/

cyclopath2001 · 12-12-2008 6:52pm

monument wrote: »

A bin and a poll fit nicely in the middle of a lane...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cianginty/3098227754/in/pool-dublincyclelanes/

And the bike symbol is upside down,unless it's a contra-flow, in which case, where's the opposing direction lane for cyclists?

Gavin · 12-12-2008 6:55pm

Looks like Mobhi Hill. It's a contraflow and there isn't one going the other way.

markpb · 12-12-2008 6:58pm

blorg wrote: »

I put up a few more there from my commute this morning. To be honest my commute is probably along some of the best cycle lanes in Dublin (Ranelagh-Sandyford) so I don't have a lot of griping, if all of Dublin had cycle lanes of this quality I think we would be doing OK I included an example of what I would consider to be good merging of an off-road track at a junction, as well as bad merging further on.

I recently started extending my commute from Sandyford to the city centre. The stretch you showed in your first photo is a great example. That road is possibly the best cycle lane in the entire country. Whoever the LA are, they're to be commended for doing it properly.

monument · 12-12-2008 7:20pm

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

And the bike symbol is upside down,unless it's a contra-flow, in which case, where's the opposing direction lane for cyclists?

Apparently, it's meant to be used by cyclists going both directions. As can be seen in this picture, the southbound bus lane is a bus-only lane.

For the most part road has one normal traffic lane north bound, and southbound it has a bus lane and a normal traffic lane.

Going northbound, the road starts with a small section of cycle track on the left side, cyclists are then directed vie crossing lights to the cycle track on the right side (the one with a bin and a poll, which is badly maintained).

Going southbound it starts with the cycle track marked by the upside-down markings, which flows into a normal bus lane, which flows into the bus-only lane (ie the one in the 'this picture' link).

It's a mess of a road.

For those cycling northbound above the road (ie to Ballymun, DCU etc), this sign gives good advice on a detour which is far better. Southbound, I'll use the bus lane.

Documenting Ireland's cycle lanes

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