Irish Times reports that all pistols are to be banned

fat-tony

Ok - looked up the SI 390 and there was no mention of section 31, but then I realised that there was a negative clause and.... I'll get my coat

Sparks

It's the other-than clause f-t. Parts 1 though 8 are commenced except for the listed bits of part 5, which doesn't include section 31, so that part is commenced.
You have to wonder if the folks who write this stuff ever passed leaving cert english...

TargetWidow

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

who was on the grassy hill in Dallas that November day,or is Elvis really alive and sheep farming up on Carrontohill???:(

Well MEOW! If bitchiness ever becomes an Olympic sport I now know of a few lads that could certainly bring home gold for Ireland. Thanks. And watch those claws girls.:D

Bananaman

I used to work for a company called Glock'enspiel - now I own a Glock

Must be Karma

B'Man

rrpc

I think a Glockenspiel is a musical instrument.



Some would say it's more percussion

MikeEve

Trojan911 wrote: »

Hi MikeEve,

Do you know how much it cost the Government in total in compensation (& I'm including everything i.e. guns, speedloaders, spare mags, bullet loaders etc) when they revoked the Sec1's & how many handguns were surrendered?

I was in London at the time & also had to surrender my three.

Cheers.

I'll have to do some research - I had the figures in early 2000, but we've moved office since then, and changed computer system!

I'll have a dig, and come back when (if!) I've got anything positive to report.

Sparks

From the letters page in the Examiner:

Smoking guns
THE justice minister has promised a crackdown on legally-held handguns.

I wonder how that will affect the gangs as I didn’t know their guns were legal and licensed.

Is this just another Government smokescreen? I think so.

Why doesn’t it tackle the real root of the problem — the demand for illegal drugs which dictates the supply and is fuelling the murders and madness.

And also in the letters page:

Handguns ban is an attack on good citizens
WHO would have guessed that the Irish would follow British policy in anything at all, let alone the confiscation of legally-owned firearms.

Yet that is exactly what Justice Minister Dermot Ahern is proposing in the face of a “mushrooming” number of handgun licences.

The fact that handgun violence has trebled in Britain since their 1997 ban apparently matters little to politicians hoping to cover their utter incompetence in dealing with spiralling criminal activity.

Handguns here in Canada have been registered for 65 years but a relatively recent surge in gang violence in big cities like Toronto (committed predominantly by minorities) has public officials screaming for these handguns, despite the fact that more than 80% of crime guns are illegally smuggled into the country and the remainder are stolen and traded by these same people.

Politicians don’t want to address the ethnic aspects of this problem and go for the soft target — handguns owned predominantly by white, long-standing and law-abiding citizens.

It’s predictable, but why does Ireland, after enduring decades of home-grown terrorism and violence, suddenly feel now is the time to attack its good citizens?

Blazher

Any word from the FCP

G17

Blazher wrote: »

Any word from the FCP

+1

If there's anyone on boards.ie who was at the FCP meeting (last night?), we'd appreciate an update, if that is possible at this stage.

packas

G17 wrote: »

+1

If there's anyone on boards.ie who was at the FCP meeting (last night?), we'd appreciate an update, if that is possible at this stage.

Very quiet this morning!!!!! When will an update from the discussions that took place at the meeting be made available to the sport shooting community????

bunny shooter

G17 wrote: »

+1

If there's anyone on boards.ie who was at the FCP meeting (last night?), we'd appreciate an update, if that is possible at this stage.

+1

jwshooter

they will be all watch n the toy show , just in case there is a toy firearm on it , the little fucxxrs shooters of tomorrow

packas

jwshooter wrote: »

they will be all watch n the toy show , just in case there is a toy firearm on it , the little fucxxrs shooters of tomorrow

:D:D:D:D:D:D

cybershooters

chem wrote: »

If there are 105,000 licenced pistols in NI

There aren't, the high point was about 12,000, I think the PSNI stats say about 10,000 now, about 8,000 of which are for personal protection.

cybershooters

FWIW.

CJhaughey

Tom McGurk has put a nice factual piece in the SBP, well done Tom!


That a senior Fianna Fail minister should be suggesting that Newry is somehow not part of Ireland is quite extraordinary. Indeed, why is there - in Coughlan’s opinion - such a vast different between shopping in Newry in a British-owned supermarket and shopping in Dundalk in a British-owned supermarket? The sense of a government reacting to events instead of attempting to control them is also evident in justice minister Dermot Ahern’s plans to ban legally-held handguns.This response to the murder in Limerick of Garryowen rugby player Shane Geoghegan smacks of publicity seeking, while disguising that the crisis is caused by illegal, not legal, handguns.

Ahern said in a statement: ‘‘Were stolen legal handguns used to kill innocent civilians, the present situation, which has not arisen as the result of any policy decision, would be impossible to justify.” The fact, Ahern seeks to disguise, is that, not only do we have no record of any legally-held handgun being used in a murder in the state to date, but because the authorities here failed, when licensing these weapons, to take a ballistic fingerprint from each one in the first place - as is mandatory across the rest of Europe - it would be impossible to even establish that fact.

Even now, the new regulations will still not seek ballistic fingerprinting when current licences are renewed. Meanwhile, a blameless Irish sporting gun community will have to suffer for the gangsters and their illegal weapons. Almost certainly – as was evident in Britain after the Dunblane slaughter led to a handgun ban - the use of firearms by criminals will not decrease.

Just in case your local drug-gang feels bereft at the clampdown on legally-held weapons (which they don’t use anyway), there are, according to the latest figures from the Department of Justice, 53,000 rifles and 77,000 shotguns in private ownership - a ratio of one gun to every 17 people in the country. So, I ask you, how meaningless is Dermot Ahern’s ban on pistol licences as an antidote to gun crime?

CJhaughey

CJhaughey wrote: »

Tom McGurk has put a nice factual piece in the SBP, well done Tom!


That a senior Fianna Fail minister should be suggesting that Newry is somehow not part of Ireland is quite extraordinary. Indeed, why is there - in Coughlan’s opinion - such a vast different between shopping in Newry in a British-owned supermarket and shopping in Dundalk in a British-owned supermarket? The sense of a government reacting to events instead of attempting to control them is also evident in justice minister Dermot Ahern’s plans to ban legally-held handguns.This response to the murder in Limerick of Garryowen rugby player Shane Geoghegan smacks of publicity seeking, while disguising that the crisis is caused by illegal, not legal, handguns.

Ahern said in a statement: ‘‘Were stolen legal handguns used to kill innocent civilians, the present situation, which has not arisen as the result of any policy decision, would be impossible to justify.” The fact, Ahern seeks to disguise, is that, not only do we have no record of any legally-held handgun being used in a murder in the state to date, but because the authorities here failed, when licensing these weapons, to take a ballistic fingerprint from each one in the first place - as is mandatory across the rest of Europe - it would be impossible to even establish that fact.

Even now, the new regulations will still not seek ballistic fingerprinting when current licences are renewed. Meanwhile, a blameless Irish sporting gun community will have to suffer for the gangsters and their illegal weapons. Almost certainly – as was evident in Britain after the Dunblane slaughter led to a handgun ban - the use of firearms by criminals will not decrease.

Just in case your local drug-gang feels bereft at the clampdown on legally-held weapons (which they don’t use anyway), there are, according to the latest figures from the Department of Justice, 53,000 rifles and 77,000 shotguns in private ownership - a ratio of one gun to every 17 people in the country. So, I ask you, how meaningless is Dermot Ahern’s ban on pistol licences as an antidote to gun crime?

What a great piece! Fair play to Tom McGurk, it's nice to see somebody in RTE that can be objective.

My younger sister was interviewed by him a year or two ago, and was quite impressed by him. Now I can see her opinion was justified (for once! )

Grizzly 45

Well written,bar the suggestion/assertion of the ballistic fingerprint.
It DOES NOT work,nor is anyone in Europe doing it anymore.
It took up too much space in saving spent shells,was a paperwork nightmare for both sides.[Say,you had to replace the barrel,ejector,extractor,firning pin,breech face,or in some cases even the magazine.The gun has to be re balisticly tested.:eek:]all in all it was a clumsy and inefficent and expensive method.
So that proably makes it ideal for Ireland.:rolleyes:

copperdaz

To ban legally held hand guns is like banning all vehicles on the roads to get rid of joyridders. sorry but its using a cannon to kill a fly( pun intended)

personally i think that if you are a responsible adult with the proper training and safety knowlage you can posess your firearm without danger to the population.

I think though people looking out there windows at young adults with airsoft guns( i know different topic) thinking there real is driving concern and its these people who are ringing there local rep. in the dail.

I would think that if Ireland can be mature enough to have a responsible attitude towards guns and there storage why not have a licenceing system that works rather then an all out ban.

I think that the storage issue could be the problem. in other words a legaly held gun being stolen from your house and now is in the hands of someone it should not be in. maybe the storage of weapons is what should be looked at rather than the gun themselves.

chem

Has anyone been granted a pistol licence since the ministers "master plan" was released? They will lose them next re-licence time is that right?

copperdaz

chem wrote: »

Has anyone been granted a pistol licence since the ministers "master plan" was released? They will lose them next re-licence time is that right?

my understanding is that the licence expires and your left with an unlicenced firearm in your possession. Dont know what you can do with them after that. Anyway i think people who have a licence will most probably be able to hold on to it if they can show they have a good reason to do so. Superintendents will only have a say in you being issued a licence but the decision remains with the dept of justice.

i may be wrong on this but i hear the info is in your local garda station...

bunny shooter

Excellent article Tom

Such straight talking is now what's needed in this country

lykoris

it's factually incorrect....where does he think people 'across Europe' have the ballistic fingerprint of their rifle taken before taking possession from their local gunsmith/armory.

France, Germany, Luxembourg, Holland, Austria, Belgium, Switzerland have no such system.... ???

I've never even heard of such a thing....not even in the UK which has extremely draconian firearms legislation.

This point, which in my opinion is completely untrue, substantially undermines the credibility of the article.

lykoris

CJhaughey wrote: »

the authorities here failed, when licensing these weapons, to take a ballistic fingerprint from each one in the first place - as is mandatory across the rest of Europe

I've never heard of such a thing as a mandatory ballistic fingerprint across Europe.

I think the reason the ban started is as a result of what happened in Finland first (it got them thinking) and then the unfortunate loss of life in Limerick of the rugby player (tragedy is an understatement) gave them the excuse to put the ball rolling.

they also no doubt have people advising them that an Irish Dunblane is an inevitability with licensed pistols.

lykoris

lykoris wrote: »

it's factually incorrect....where does he think people 'across Europe' have the ballistic fingerprint of their rifle taken before taking possession from their local gunsmith/armory.

It's the sentiment of the article / statement that I appreciate, which is clearly aimed to show that the proposed legislation is nothing more than a political smokescreen that only harms the people with legally held pistols.

Manic Moran

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Well written,bar the suggestion/assertion of the ballistic fingerprint.
It DOES NOT work,nor is anyone in Europe doing it anymore.

Not that it's had any great success in the US either.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-09-28-1602315911_x.htm

ALBANY, N.Y. — New York's 7-year-old database of handgun "fingerprints" has yet to lead to a criminal prosecution, and questions linger about its effectiveness. Still, state police remain committed to the database, saying more time and a long-awaited link to a federal ballistics database could bring success.
Since March 2001, identifying information about more than 200,000 new pistols and revolvers sold in New York have been entered into the Combined Ballistic Identification System database maintained by state police. New York and Maryland are the only two states that maintain statewide databases.

<snip>

Tom King, president of the New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, said the state would be better served by spending the money for the database -- which police say costs about $1 million a year -- on more police.

$1m a year on a database of 200,000 firearms. How many firearms are in Ireland again? Somewhere around 200,000? Where do you want that money to go again?

In 2001, California wisely rejected setting up its own ballistics imaging system because research, including by the California Department of Justice, proved that a database of lawfully purchased firearms (that are rarely ever used in crimes) would not be an effective law enforcement tool.

NTM

Sparks

I think Canada has had similar luck.
Thing is, even in the EU directives, there's nothing on mandatory ballistic fingerprinting.
Nonetheless, the general approach of the article is spot on.

Rovi

Manic Moran wrote: »

Not that it's had any great success in the US either.

But it works great on CSI!

Which, sadly, is where many of our politicians and journalists appear to get their firearms 'knowledge'


That said, the tone and sentiment of the piece is certainly favourable, and Tom McGurk is a high profile and well regarded commentator, so it's another welcome dose of sense to counter the hysterical fearmongering.

Bananaman

The most important aspect of any journalism related to this issue is that the uninformed public are informed that the legally licensed pistols of Ireland are of no threat to them. Again and again and again.

This group also includes the members of the Oireachtas as the vast majority of people in this country have no experience of firearms, especially handguns.
They will believe what they read and what they are told by the news so it is important they are told facts and not let hearsay define their beliefs.

If they understand that there is no threat then they will question the removal of said 'non-threat'.

In that light Tom McGurks point should be well received.

If the government introduce ballistic fingerprinting in order to ensure that our firearms are not used in crime - then I am all for it - the more proof the better.

B'Man

civdef

Have there really been no significant developments on this subject for nearly a week, i.e. consultations?