Irish Times reports that all pistols are to be banned

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

Besides which, it strikes me that it's far more likely to refer to the right to silence or some other right that suspects have in a Garda interview.

In fact that's exactly what it refers to.There was an article in one of the Sunday's about the Bebo page of one such thug and he had the same phrase on his Bebo in a little FAQ on what to do when arrested.

Seriously, someone is having a Walter Mitty moment...

Grizzly 45

TargetWidow wrote: »

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jpdublin/3039817705/

Know your rights. Get it?

Errr NO actualy.. I fail to see the point of a bunch of pics of a bunch of fat overweight jail birds who have gone off and copied a LA Mexican Gang tradition of getting themselves tatted up with pics of firearms and their kill lists has got to do with anything regarding legal firearms ownership??????
Can we keep it somwhat logical,without going too deep into conspircy theories,who was on the grassy hill in Dallas that November day,or is Elvis really alive and sheep farming up on Carrontohill???:(

My god, its all a giant plot between the media and tattoo artists!

How could I have been so blind???????

Kat1170

Me thinks some people would be better off here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1008

Sparks

Some interesting PQs yesterday and today:

From Tuesday:

27. To ask the Minister for Defence if any weapons handed in by members of the public under the Firearms (Dangerous Weapons) Order, 1972 are held in storage by the Defence Forces; if so when these were handed in; the number, nature and type of weapons and his plans for same; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Thomas Byrne. [42650/08]

*370. To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if the Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 made on 12 February 2008 and due to come into operation on 1 May 2008, is in operation; if not, the reason for same; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Pat Rabbitte. [42670/08]

*371. To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if Section 31 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006, which inserts a new section 3A into the Firearms Act 1925, conferring on the Garda Commissioner power to issue guidelines in relation to the practical application and operation of the Firearms Acts, is in operation; if not, the reason for same; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Pat Rabbitte. [42671/08]

And from Wednesday:

95. To ask the Minister for Defence if any weapons handed in by members of the public under the Firearms (Dangerous Weapons) Order, 1972 are held in storage by the Defence Forces; if so when these were handed in; the number, nature and type of weapons and his plans for same; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Thomas Byrne. [42650/08]

Manic Moran

Harvard Law Review's current issue is something of a Heller special. I've just come to a quote from a chap testifying in Congress, way back in 1975 which you may find interesting.

Harlon Carter wrote:

Law abiding people, and particularly gun owners, are tired of being blamed for crime. They are sick of being harassed with federal bureaucracy and having their freedom progressively and increasingly chipped away because of the inability or unwillingness of their government officials to deal with those responsible for crime, namely, criminals.
...
[P]eople in the media, in the Congress, in the courts seem to blame crime on everything in our society except the criminal and want to punish anyone and anything except the criminals.

Funny, that. The political landscape just turns around and around on top of itself, even over the ocean.

NTM

Sparks

From the Indo letters page:

WHEN is a sport not a sport?

When the Government is actively trying to get people to participate in any kind of sports activity, and you are involved in a sport that has in excess of 80,000 members worldwide, is recognised in 81 countries globally and is more popular than its equivalent Olympic event.

The only problem is that this sport is a shooting sport, soon to be banned in Ireland because, rather than deal with criminals and drug gangs, the Government would like to grab headlines by saying that it got rid of handguns from licensed, law abiding, security-cleared citizens.

I hope everyone feels safer now that Big Bully (sorry Brother) has looked after you.

rrpc

I'd take issue with this sentence:

is recognised in 81 countries globally and is more popular than its equivalent Olympic event.

Taken in context it appears to be saying globally more popular which is not true.

I assume this is IPSC and I agree with the sentiments in the letter, but just not that particular sentence.

The number of people shooting ISSF pistol events worldwide is enormous. In Germany alone, hell in Munich alone there are dozen of clubs shooting these events.

Bananaman

There is no point doing the ISSF/IPSC dance lads - it's all been done before.

If the proposed abolition was on ISSF shooting disciplines you can be sure that everyone would be as shocked as we are that the IPSC shooting disciplines seem to be under threat.

None of us know the definitive statistics - we only know what we have taken part in or witnessed - IPSA will provide all the relevant information as necessary. I am sure that IPSA will make the case for these sports the same as ISSF would if they were in the same position.
Support for their position among the shooting bodies would be appreciated and should not need to be requested.

Suffice it to say that at the recent IPSC world shoot, in Bali, Indonesia - in which Ireland participated - there were over 1000 competitors from almost 100 countries. This is on a par with the World Championships or Olympics. The largest competition I have attended - The Lithuanian Open - there were almost 300 competitors from 13 countries. This was just a national Open and as such dwarves many major Golfing Tournaments of equal standing.

That is, by anyones definition, a major world sport with major world sporting events.

Ireland are as yet but a pup in comparison to other counties but in the short period this sport has been competed in here ~3 years - Ireland has achieved the status of "Most Improved Region" and won it's first President Medal in International competition. That shows commitment and dedication on the part of all those that compete in these sports.

It would be not only a shame but a waste to see this dedication and commitment thrown aside.

B'Man

Sparks

Okay, hold up *everyone* on the IPSC/ISSF line please, we've already banned several people to shut down that argument earlier, I'd rather not ban more if I can help it.

rrpc

Sorry B'Man, that's just me being picky.

It's like a pavlovian response with me, when I see something wrong I try to correct it.

I've done the same over the last few weeks with news reports, TD's statements and PAC submissions.

Just to prove I'm consistent

And yes we are shocked.

Grizzly 45

Cant include this in PMs ,so MODS,please move/delete where appropriate.

Anyways this is the only comment on this entire matter in the Limerick press that I can find sofar.It is more of same what has been said before.But maybe of intrest?

Trojan911

Grizzly,

I took the liberty of putting up the online version here (it's easier to read). Hope you don't mind.

newby.204

basically centrefire pistol shooting will die out in the next twenty years or so?? Can i ask why it seems like the ipsc just rolled over and died?And why after all the recommendations by the FCP for reform to the licencing system(e.g. 3 year licences), lawful firearms owners, and those who would have been future firearms owners, are losing the privieliege of taking up a sport?

Sparks

No, basicly that's what would happen if what the Minister said in his press release was to be implemented without change.
The FCP shooting bodies are meeting tomorrow night to discuss this; I'd suggest holding off on drinking the Kool-aid at least until we hear back from that meeting.

newby.204

im generally a cynic, ill throw my hands up and admit that outright, however it seems like a foregone conclusion to me that, no new centerfire licences will be issued and those who have the priviliege of keeping theirs will have to jump throught hoops, imo(even though they already do...)

just my 2c

Sparks

newby.204 wrote: »

Can i ask why it seems like the ipsc just rolled over and died?

Sure, but I don't think they'll answer if you ask here!

And why after all the recommendations by the FCP for reform to the licencing system(e.g. 3 year licences), lawful firearms owners, and those who would have been future firearms owners, are losing the privieliege of taking up a sport?

John Deasy, the Irish Times and RTE. So far as I can make out, anyway. I can't see any incident that could legitimately trigger a clampdown, I can't see any party calling for this (hell, they're saying it's a cop-out), and there's nothing else I can see that should bring this about.

newby.204

Sparks wrote: »

Sure, but I don't think they'll answer if you ask here!John Deasy, the Irish Times and RTE. So far as I can make out, anyway. I can't see any incident that could legitimately trigger a clampdown, I can't see any party calling for this (hell, they're saying it's a cop-out), and there's nothing else I can see that should bring this about.

im not refering to .22 pistol sports sparks im refering specifically to centerfire

Sparks

By 'this' I meant the ban newby.

newby.204

Sparks wrote: »

By 'this' I meant the ban newby.

oh sorry picked you up wrong:D:D:D

MikeEve

Sorry it's so long,


Dear Private Secretary,

Thank you for your prompt and most comprehensive reply.
There are many points I would take issue about, as they relate to a perception that guns - of themeselves - are a danger to the public safety, and that the lawful ownership of firearms, (not just handguns) also represents a danger to the public.

Whilst I accept that the terrible murders committed by Michael Ryan and Thomas Hamilton had a great impact on the legislation in the UK, it has become very clear that the lawful ownership of firearms had NO impact on the criminal use, and I'd refer you to the Home Office figures which demonstrate that very clearly.

Surely it is insulting to the law abiding target shooters of Ireland to call them and their sport a danger to the public? It will certainly alienate those lawful certificate holders if this ban goes ahead, yet it will not save any lives, nor will it reduce the armed crime rate.

Once again, I would sincerely ask you to consider very carefully the experience in the UK - it has been a salutory lesson to us, and it would be a shame if our bitter experience was wasted, but then repeated in Ireland.
Once again, I'd like to thank you for thaing the time to read this,
Yours Sincerely,
Mike


Dear Mr (MikeEve)

I have your representations expressing your concern about the recent announcement by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform concerning handguns.

It is important to say, first of all, that the Minister's proposals in relation to handguns will not impinge directly on the activities of the vast majority of licensed firearms holders. The Minister recognises that those firearms holders pursue their legitimate interests in a law abiding way and he is anxious to have a well regulated sector in which those interests can be successfully pursued, in cooperation with the relevant authorities.
As you may be aware, for over 30 years prior to 2004, all handguns were banned in this jurisdiction. Following a series of judicial decisions that is no longer the case and about 1,800 handguns have been licensed since then. This was not the result of a considered or deliberate public policy decision. While, thankfully, violence related to the troubles in the North has largely been brought to an end we are now faced with a gun culture operating in criminal gangs. It is a matter of great regret that the activities of criminal gangs should impinge on the interests of law abiding licensed firearms owners but the Minister cannot overlook the fact that the overall level and kind of licensed firearms prevalent in the community is relevant to the prevention of crime, in the same way the prohibition on handguns was considered appropriate from the early seventies on.

The Minister has been conscious too of the remarks of Mr. Justice Charleton in a recent judgement that a reasonable person is entitled to feel alarmed at the proliferation of handguns. He is aware too of calls made by members of the Oireachtas from a number of parties to address this situation.

The Minister is aware that some people have a strongly held view that once they are of good character and make the necessary secure arrangements for the storage of their firearms they should be free to have firearms of any kind licensed to them. The Minister feels that that would represent an unacceptable situation where our gun laws could mirror those of countries such as the United States and that, if the present situation continued unchecked, this would happen.

It was against this background that the Minister directed his Department and An Garda Síochána to carry out an urgent and intensive review of the firearms law. Proposals arising from that review will be reflected in a Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous) Provisions Bill which will be published shortly.

The Minister's proposals for reform in this area include a ban on issuing new licenses for handguns, although there will be limited exceptions in relation to Olympic sports. Those who have licenses already can, when they are due for renewal, apply to have them renewed under a new licensing procedure where the safety of the community will be paramount. The Minister and Garda Commissioner will keep under annual review the outcome of the licensing procedure and, if the outcome leaves a situation which still poses an unacceptable risk to the community, will use new powers to ban particular types of firearm.
It is important to stress that these proposals will not impinge on the vast majority of licensed firearms holders. While any inconvenience caused to those who will be affected by the proposals is, of course, regretted the Minister is satisfied that his proposals are essential in the public interest.
Yours sincerely,

xxxx

G17

Sparks wrote: »

The FCP shooting bodies are meeting tomorrow night to discuss this;

Can I get a 24 hour drum roll please. :D

Sparks

Interesting response to yesterday's PQs:

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Deputy Dermot Ahern): The Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order – S.I. 21 of 2008 - came into effect on 1st May 2008. Since that date, any firearms dealer wishing to deal in restricted firearms has had to apply for and be granted an authorisation under section 39 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006. That Order will also be relevant in the context of changes which I have announced in the firearms licensing regime which I will be bringing forward in the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill due to be published in the coming weeks.

Section 31 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 (Issue of guidelines etc. by Commissioner) was commenced by S.I. No. 390 of 2006 (Criminal Justice Act 2006 (Commencement Order)) on 1st August 2006. It is intended that the Commissioner will issue guidelines in the context of the new licensing regime.

Grizzly 45

Ah Yes Christmas is coming and the Ministers want to fly to sunnier climes for the next 12 weeks.:rolleyes:.
Heads UP on this when it comes close to knocking off time for the Season!!All sorts of things are pushed thru as any other busisness that needs to be finished up before the Holidays.This and Summer recess is the WORST time of year for things to go pear shaped.:(

ronanpatrick

i ve read all the comments todate, as a matter of urgancy pls email your comments to darragh.obrien@oireachtas.ie he is the FF TD lead questionaire on the justice comm. which has to report back to Dermot Ahern minister@justice.ie and cc your locals too

pls note the only stolen hand guns legally held in the state were ones issued to memebers of an garda siochana for active duties
members of an garda siochana do not have to install safes and monitored alarms in their homes while off duty. No stolen privatly held hand gun has been used in the commission of a crime todate as none have been stolen..
pls see article in the irish indo i think last 11/ or 12/11/08 were the garda commis was interviewed and if it were not serious i would have said his arguement was a joke of some kind. also see of FF main web page Aherns comments on prop. also serious as it will spread to semi auto shot guns and full bore rifles before we know it. THIS must be acted on.
PLEASE NOTE TD Darragh OBRIEN holds a licence for what type iam not sure but he is one of us!!!!!

Manic Moran

Those who have licenses already can, when they are due for renewal, apply to have them renewed under a new licensing procedure where the safety of the community will be paramount.

And again.

It's a total ban. Don't let the dangly shiny bauble of "If you have a license now, you're fine" in any way distract you, because it will destroy the sport.

ETA: As I'm not resident in Dublin, I've not taken part in any elections in the last decade, but we still maintain a home there. Is there any site I can look up to find out which rep is in 'my' AO that I can email? (I still have an Irish email address)

NTM

BornToKill

ronanpatrick wrote: »

as it will spread to semi auto shot guns and full bore rifles before we know it.

This is just scaremongering. Why not everyone wait to see what comes out of the meetings scheduled over the coming week instead of making up and spreading rumours?

IRLConor

Manic Moran wrote: »

ETA: As I'm not resident in Dublin, I've not taken part in any elections in the last decade, but we still maintain a home there. Is there any site I can look up to find out which rep is in 'my' AO that I can email? (I still have an Irish email address)

List of constituencies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_constituencies_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland

Once you find which one you reckon is roughly right, have a look at the appropriate article and there'll be a description of what area it covers and the TDs who represent it. If you're not sure, PM me the location and I'll work it out.

cavan shooter

I said it before I dont shoot a pistol prefer shotgun and rifle but... I am getting fed up.... Where is the restricted firearms order...... to be honest was the purpose of the restricted firearms list not to tighten up significantly the issuing of firearms (pistols)(rifles), calibers, and the (dont like the look at that aspect) applying to a chief superintendent and instaed of good reason you now need a bloody good reason??? sure to god implementing the restricted list would sort all this out.....lets be honest it was accepted by shooters and associations

Has it gone away??

By the way and no offence to any of our American friends I hate it when they try and compare it with the US situation, why not compare to Canada or Australia or somewhere in Europe

I am also sick of what I refer now to "Glock n speel" every plucker has a comment and think they know something about pistols, Glock n Himmel its annoying. Bruce willis has a lot to answer for


Rant over....

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

Interesting response to yesterday's PQs:

Section 31 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 (Issue of guidelines etc. by Commissioner) was commenced by S.I. No. 390 of 2006 (Criminal Justice Act 2006 (Commencement Order)) on 1st August 2006. It is intended that the Commissioner will issue guidelines in the context of the new licensing regime.

I don't think people realise how interesting this is. I have to admit that I was of the opinion that section 31 had not been commenced.

Remember the Commissioner saying to the PAC that he could not issue guidelines?

???????