M7 - Nenagh to Limerick

Tech3

This scheme has been delayed from day 1 starting from the planning process.

I wouldn't be surprised if they set this back another few months just to keep them in a job.

Wake me up when this scheme is open to traffic

Amtmann

You could end up like Rip van Winkel, Techy!

Tech3

I wonder will the M20 be done when I call back?

black47

tech2 wrote: »

I wonder will the M20 be done when I call back?

There's more of a chance of the first steeplechase being re-run by the original personel from Buttevant to Doneraile than any M20 improvements starting in the short term

lukejr

Drove the N7 today for the first time in day light since early October. I was surprised at the slow pace of the Nenagh bypass section, I assumed this piece would be open by now. I noticed today that there is still over 100m or so that needs to be re-surfaced to connect with the Nenagh to Birdhill/Limerick section.

At the current pace of work I would be surprised if the Nenagh to Birdhill section is opened before Christmas. Although I hope I'm wrong on this.

blackwarrior

Looks certain now that the Nenagh-Limerick part of the motorway will open sometime in 2010 - six years since the last new stretch of road on the Dublin-Limerick route opened. What progress.

pinkfloyd34

what a mess, when they started building these motorways they were way over time and way over budget, then they got there act together well cos they were made to and alot of projects were completed on time and under budget but now they just dont give a crap, why cant dept of transport step in and do something, this is a joke

Rovi

We're told that in the case of most of these projects, the 'early completion' bonus parts of the contracts have been rescinded by the NRA/DoT/whoever, and the contractors are now looking to complete the projects at the least possible cost to themselves and just barely within the remaining terms of the contract.

brandon_flowers

Rovi wrote: »

We're told that in the case of most of these projects, the 'early completion' bonus parts of the contracts have been rescinded by the NRA/DoT/whoever, and the contractors are now looking to complete the projects at the least possible cost to themselves and just barely within the remaining terms of the contract.

Wouldn't fully agree there, the Consortium that are doing it are not up to scratch to be honest. They have no endeavour to see the job completed and have been seriously blatant in their non payment of sub-contractors. Mota Engil are Portugeuse and couldn't care less about the NRA or anyone else. Claims, variations, delays, extensions and any other source of income is all they are interested in. McNamara have no experience in road building of this magnitude and Coffey are experienced in the road building/civil engineering but can hardly be expected to carry the can for the other 2.
Compare this Consortium to Roadbridge-Sisk or CRG and they are polar opposites who to be fair plough on with the work and get almost all of their projects completed well ahead of schedule. Its not like the Section of M8 between Cashel and Cullahill was anything easier than M7 Limerick to Nenagh.

mysterious

So when is it going to be finished. This is a national embarrasment. I knew the contractor was dodgy, especially since Martin Cullen picked it as the cheapest option. I cannot stand that man.:mad: The N= L scheme was meant to begin in 2005, but got postponed because of the Cullahil Cashel and Waterford Kilkenny and bypass schemes. Not all to far from destination Cullens house to say the least.

The N-C will be finished at this rate before the L-N scheme. It's just ludricous at this stage.

fresca

ultimately, is it not the responsibility of the NRA?
surely they are charged with undertaking the construction of the mainlines?
isn't it up to the nra to exercise control over the contractor?

maybe limerick-nenagh is an accurate reflection of corporate governance in ireland...

i wonder will the entire limerick to portlaoise scheme open together in late 2010?
mind you that would mean that we couldn't have 3 road opening ceremonies - now wouldn't that be a real tragedy!!

Sponge Bob

Does anybody have any recent bog of doom photos ??

It would not suprise me if all the interurbans were finished by september bar the missing link at the bog of doom.

brandon_flowers

fresca wrote: »

ultimately, is it not the responsibility of the NRA?
surely they are charged with undertaking the construction of the mainlines?
isn't it up to the nra to exercise control over the contractor?

maybe limerick-nenagh is an accurate reflection of corporate governance in ireland...

i wonder will the entire limerick to portlaoise scheme open together in late 2010?
mind you that would mean that we couldn't have 3 road opening ceremonies - now wouldn't that be a real tragedy!!

It is without doubt the responsibility of the NRA/Dept of Transport/Environment (Government). I cant remember who was in charge of roads when the contract was awarded. Obviously the consultants RPS and the French crowd would recommend a contractor based on the tenders received and evaluated and then the "Government" can go back to the consultants saying "No we want the lowest bidder to do the job"

And in this case they have got it badly wrong. Thankfully the Pre-Qalification process and the new Conditions of Contract for Public Works should prevent this sort of ****e happening in the future. Unfortunately we have no more contracts to award.

Irish and Proud

pinkfloyd34 wrote: »

what a mess, when they started building these motorways they were way over time and way over budget, then they got there act together well cos they were made to and alot of projects were completed on time and under budget but now they just dont give a crap, why cant dept of transport step in and do something, this is a joke

...well, we don't have Seamus Brennan now - apart from his recent passing, remember the way in which he was mysteriously removed from his position as Minister for Transport! :rolleyes: ...like it wasn't exactly as if he was performing poorly in relation to delivery and value, in terms of infrastructure! ...me thinks too many cronies involved with infrastructure were upset! :mad:

Regards!

Irish and Proud

mysterious wrote: »

So when is it going to be finished. This is a national embarrasment. I knew the contractor was dodgy, especially since Martin Cullen picked it as the cheapest option. I cannot stand that man.:mad: The N= L scheme was meant to begin in 2005, but got postponed because of the Cullahil Cashel and Waterford Kilkenny and bypass schemes. Not all to far from destination Cullens house to say the least.

The N-C will be finished at this rate before the L-N scheme. It's just ludricous at this stage.

...heads have got to roll! :mad:

mysterious

Maybe they found something rather interesting at the bog of doom.


I think it's a conspiracy. The section of bog is how big where the motorway runs. If all the M7 was completed how long would the uncomplete section be.


Where is the government and NRA on this. The NRA and government are totally responsible for this. Our money goes to those ****ers. It's no excuse. If they are supposed to manage and run the country, then they are oughtta do it. If they can't do it, they should be sacked one by one in a public humilation display.

The end. This is going on for years and it seems the government are not making any publication or responsibility for this dire situation.

fresca

Irish and Proud wrote: »

...heads have got to roll! :mad:

can we get our road first?
then by all means, get your guillotine out...

can contractors be blacklisted? so that the current consortium - Bothar Hibernian - are never allowed undertake a roads project again? is this feasible?

lukejr

According to the Nenagh Guardian in their Nov 28, issue the Nenagh to Limerick M7 section will not open until Spring 2010 (available to read on their website www.nenaghguardian.ie). Almost a full year behind schedule.

The most insightful piece of the article is that the Nenagh bypass section is ready to open but is being held up by a dispute between Limerick and North Tipp County Councils. So if you want this section opened quickly, please email or call the councillors involved, all are named in the Nenagh Guardian article. With the dark evenings in now and icy nights to start soon, having an extra 10km of motorway on the long Limerick to Dublin road would making driving a little easier.

It does look like the M7 has been left behind and it'll be at least six months before a new section is opened. The M8 is almost finished, the M4/M6 opens this month, and the M9 is way ahead of schedule, with the Kilcullen to Carlow section due open this week.

BluntGuy

I think the M7 will lapse into 2011, which means the government will have failed even on its promise to deliver all the MIUs "by 2010" (which as Zoney regularly points out is actually in itself four years later than the original promised date of 2006).

JupiterKid

The situation with the Nenagh-Limerick section of the M7 is a complete disgrace. The contractor should never be allowed to work on another road scheme in the country again.:mad:

The M9 from Waterford to Knocktopher is also running behind schedule. Is it the same contractor building this section of motorway too?

pinkfloyd34

mysterious wrote: »

Maybe they found something rather interesting at the bog of doom.


I think it's a conspiracy. The section of bog is how big where the motorway runs. If all the M7 was completed how long would the uncomplete section be.


Where is the government and NRA on this. The NRA and government are totally responsible for this. Our money goes to those ****ers. It's no excuse. If they are supposed to manage and run the country, then they are oughtta do it. If they can't do it, they should be sacked one by one in a public humilation display.

The end. This is going on for years and it seems the government are not making any publication or responsibility for this dire situation.

id say the comptroller and auditor generals office will do a report into this and find out exactly what happened, then this will be before the public accounts committee probably in a few years time

Wild Bill

Really folks!

I told ye all last July that this wouldn't be finished in 2009, me being good at the bleedin' obvious.

While it is very irritating that the NRA won't come clean about anything that isn't "ahead of schedule and within budget" this ain't exactly the end of the world"!

Wait till 2011 when the only project ongoing is filling in potholes on a Regional Road near you - ye'll look back on this as the time of milk and honey! :cool:

mysterious

Wild Bill wrote: »

Really folks!

I told ye all last July that this wouldn't be finished in 2009, me being good at the bleedin' obvious.

While it is very irritating that the NRA won't come clean about anything that isn't "ahead of schedule and within budget" this ain't exactly the end of the world"!

Wait till 2011 when the only project ongoing is filling in potholes on a Regional Road near you - ye'll look back on this as the time of milk and honey! :cool:

`
Wild bill its not the point that your right,

They keep pushing the date further and further. It's an absaloute joke. The government, NRA should be making statements over the problem, rather than just doing nothing.

Where is leadership responsibility here.

Spring 08 Summer 08, dec 08? Jan 09 May? October? Novermber? December 08?

Now Spring 2010, and no responsiblity coming forward to this issue.


It's outragous.

fresca

mysterious wrote: »

`
It's outragous.

Buck stops with NRA on project governence side.
That and a lack of transparency (regular project updates).
They are after all spending our money...

Amtmann

Wild Bill wrote: »

this ain't exactly the end of the world"!

The thing is, it might well be the end of somebody's world if they get killed on the old road in the next few months while the contractors are staring ineptly at each other and this ridiculous bog.

lukejr

I got an update from the NRA today, the Nenagh bypass will now not open until the end of January, but should open along with the Nenagh to Birdhill section at the same time.

If we get the Nenagh to Birdhill section opened in the New Year it'll be great, I just hope that the bog section is done right, so I'm willing to wait until March/April if it's done right.

There would be nothing worse than having the road open and then it starts to sink and needs to be closed. Although there needs to be serious questions asked about the delay.

Wild Bill

All civil engineering projects are at risk of serious unforeseen obstacles. Let's not get too outraged.

What really annoys me is the attitude of the NRA to setbacks.

When things are going well on a project we get regular updates, progress is explained and a general (deserved) tone of self-congratulations prevails.

When s**t happens the communications, explanations and general information just ceases.

And you start to read things in the newspapers long before it reaches the NRA websites, where updating simply stops. Thus we still read that Project X should be ready for signing/opening in Q2 of 2008.

Even though it is now Q4 2009.

This is not an organisation that does it's communication professionally, despite spending considerable sums of money on it's website.

The minute information becomes misleading or wrong it should be either amended or removed. Immediately; not several years later as per the norms of NRA website "quality control".

fresca

Wild Bill wrote: »

When s**t happens the communications, explanations and general information just ceases.
The minute information becomes misleading or wrong it should be either amended or removed. Immediately; not several years later as per the norms of NRA website "quality control".

A lot of organisations are run like this.
It is a clear reflection of their ability to manage situations.
This is why I have no faith in the project governence of the NRA...

Sponge Bob

Bernard McNAMAra has far more important things to do than keep an eye on some piddling road in Tipp somewhere that he contractually agreed to finish over 6 months ago. Such as yet another visit to the commercial court.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/1210/1224260422595.html

BluntGuy

Wild Bill wrote: »

All civil engineering projects are at risk of serious unforeseen obstacles. Let's not get too outraged.

What really annoys me is the attitude of the NRA to setbacks.

When things are going well on a project we get regular updates, progress is explained and a general (deserved) tone of self-congratulations prevails.

When s**t happens the communications, explanations and general information just ceases.

And you start to read things in the newspapers long before it reaches the NRA websites, where updating simply stops. Thus we still read that Project X should be ready for signing/opening in Q2 of 2008.

Even though it is now Q4 2009.

This is not an organisation that does it's communication professionally, despite spending considerable sums of money on it's website.

The minute information becomes misleading or wrong it should be either amended or removed. Immediately; not several years later as per the norms of NRA website "quality control".

+1

Well said Will Bill.

Except for this sentence:

When things are going well on a project we get regular updates, progress is explained and a general (deserved) tone of self-congratulations prevails.

There's certainly a tone of self-congratulations, but none of the other things are ever given. The only "updates" you get are when the construction begins and construction ends.

Contractor website updates are variable at best.

The NRA's website needs a good kick up the ass - much like the organisation itself. Not only is the scheme locator clunky and outdated (it has the M20 PPP on it... somewhere, but that doesn't appear on the list, yet the now outdated N20 schemes still remain), but the information you often get is limited and outdated.