M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

KevR

Joined it and invited others. I left a comment with a picture I took of traffic last summer (think it took me something like 45 mins to get from Oranmore to the Menlo Park roundabout the evening that photo was taken!). Will check later if I have any more photos to put up there.

Jayuu

antoobrien wrote: »

There has been a facebook page added to get people to show support of the bypass http://www.facebook.com/pages/Support-the-Galway-City-Outer-Bypass/112770645431558

If you're on facebook, register your support, if not tell your friends

I don't want this to sound snarky or to be thought of being against this project, but am I the only person who now despairs when I hear about a Facebook page being setup for this cause or that cause. Has anybody ever heard of a decision being made or reversed because of a Facebook page?

Maybe I should start a Facebook page about being tired of Facebook pages being setup.

Aidan1

Maybe I should start a Facebook page about being tired of Facebook pages being setup.

Why bother - you've already pointed out that it doesn't work!

Can't help but feeling that this project is one that is going to take a long time to deliver. Even if funds are available in the near future (a very big 'if'), the environmental and planning considerations are going to drag on and on. Probably for years. It's really going to impinge on Galways ability to keep growing, and the uncertainty is going to make proper spatial planning very difficult.

antoobrien

Jayuu wrote: »

Has anybody ever heard of a decision being made or reversed because of a Facebook page?

Aidan1 wrote: »

Can't help but feeling that this project is one that is going to take a long time to deliver. Even if funds are available in the near future (a very big 'if'), the environmental and planning considerations are going to drag on and on. Probably for years. It's really going to impinge on Galways ability to keep growing, and the uncertainty is going to make proper spatial planning very difficult.

Two very good points, however, if support for initiatives such as the bypass can be shown, maybe we can get the environmentalists to do what they should be doing: helping to ensure that the plans have as little environmental impact as possible (because there's currently untold environmental damage being done by people not being able to get into and out of Galway in a timely manner).

Besides, all we have heard to this point is opposition to the plans, mostly from people outside of Galway (almost totally invalid, they don't have to sit in traffic to get the shopping) or from people who stand to land (which I have some sympathy for, and landowners should be compensated appropriately, but not extortionately, which has happened on other schemes around Galway). So maybe its time for the supporters to register their support and we'll see if (as is my opinion) there many more supporters than objectors to the project.

Sponge Bob

antoobrien wrote: »

TSo maybe its time for the supporters to register their support and we'll see if (as is my opinion) there many more supporters than objectors to the project.

The obvious minimum target is to get more supporters than O Brolcháin did for HIS facebook page which is all green rentacrowd and light on the real Galwegians anyway. Then keep going

freighter

Supreme Court to hear challenges on Galway City Outer Bypass

Galway Advertiser, May 20, 2010.
By Kernan Andrews
Dates have now been confirmed for legal challenges against plans for the Galway City Outer Bypass. The legal challenges will be heard by the Supreme Court.
The two legal challenges against the plans will come up for mention before the Chief Justice today. The Sweetman versus An Bord Pleanála case will then be heard by the Supreme Court on June 2. The Hands Across the Corrib Ltd versus An Bord Pleanála will be heard on June 10.
Fianna Fáil Galway West TD Frank Fahey has welcomed the setting of dates for the hearings. He said: “I want to welcome the priority given by the Chief Justice to this case.”


http://www.fiannafail.ie/news/entry/4368/

antoobrien

http://www.galwaynews.ie/13221-supreme-court-refers-bypass-dispute-europe

The legal battle over the outer city bypass has been referred to Europe.

The Supreme Court has agreed with lawyers for the State and environmentalist Peter Sweetman that clarification should be sought from the European Court of Justice.

Meanwhile Galway drowns in car fumes and loses jobs

?Cee?view

Ah yes, but the bog cotton and the slate are safe for another while. Who gives a damn about Galway people.

Sweetman, O'Brolchain, Gormless, the Galway Labour Party Councillors, "Hands Across the Corrib" (henceforth, Hands Away from my Back Yard) and all their fellow travellers* must be delighted with themselves :mad:



*of course, if they're stuck in Galway traffic, they won't be travelling anywhere too soon!

KevR

antoobrien wrote: »

Meanwhile Galway drowns in car fumes

So true! If you walk up or down Bishop O'Donnell/Seamus Quirke Road you can feel the car fumes in your throat. Not surprising given that there are stationary/very slow moving queues of traffic (spewing out fumes) on this stretch for most of the day. It's apparently worse than secondary cigarette smoke...

Sponge Bob

The Galway Cycling campaign is not too happy about the very same SQR.

http://www.galwaycycling.org/city-council-to-spend-e6-million-to-slow-down-city-buses/

2 June 2010

The Galway Cycling Campaign has reacted with incredulity to Galway City Council’s latest redesign of the Seamus Quirke/Bishop O’Donnell Road, saying it will lead to increased danger for pedestrians and cyclists and serious inconvenience for public transport users.


As of 2007, the proposed design included an on-road solution for cyclists for the length of the corridor via a 4.5m-wide shared bus/cycle lane. The use of wide bus/cycle lanes is considered international best practice and is endorsed by the Government’s National Cycle Policy Framework. For instance, the Parisien “Mobilien” Bus Rapid Transit System has over 100km of shared bus/cycle lanes.


It has now been revealed that the Galway design has been dramatically changed without stakeholder consultation. The new design will incorporate a reduced bus lane of 3.125m width, and ramped cycle paths that will run alongside pedestrian walkways. Cyclists will be intermittently ramped up and down onto raised cycle paths (some as short as 60–70m) between junctions, and these cycle paths will swerve behind all bus stops along the route.



The ramped cycle paths will not provide cyclists with access to the road on the approach to the Deane (Fort Lorenzo) and Browne (Corrib Park) roundabouts; as a result, cyclists will be forced to become pedestrians at either end of the corridor.


According to the Galway Cycling Campaign, the majority of cyclists will refuse to use the planned cycle paths due to the danger and significant inconvenience they will cause. It is the view of the Campaign that cyclists will stick to the safest and most expedient option and continue to use the shared bus lanes.



With the formerly 4.5m-wide bus/cycle lanes being narrowed to 3.125m, public transport users will face significant inconvenience, as bus drivers will be unable to safely overtake cyclists (current city buses measures 3.1m in width). Through this dramatic redesign, the city council will impose an assumption that at times of traffic congestion, buses will have to travel at cycling speed. The Seamus Quirke/Bishop O Donnell corridor is a vital section of the City Council’s flagship Bus Rapid Transit scheme.


The Cycling Campaign believes that the use of €6 million by the City Council to effectively slow buses down to cycling speed, increase the risk of pedestrian/cyclist collision, and force cyclists to dismount at roundabouts, is a significant waste of limited funds.

KevR

Those cyclists who also have a car and pay motor tax can have a say on the SQR. Those who don't pay any motor tax don't really deserve a say because they're not paying for it in any shape or form

?Cee?view

KevR,

I dare you to go over to the Psycholing forum, and say that

Actually, the reduction of the size of the bus lane gives me some hope. Does this mean that there still be two traffic lanes in each direction, as one would expect on a dual carriageway?.....or, will it be standard Galway traffic "design" where we have to endure two years of excavation and traffic chaos to be left with the original situation i.e. one driving lane in each direction, but with the addition of a 24 hour bus lane (empty for most of the 24 hours).

Millions for something that's not much better than it was in the first place. Eyre Square anyone?

Could they not just build the bloody dual carriageway with two full traffic lanes in each direction? It's not rocket science.

veryangryman

KevR wrote: »

Those cyclists who also have a car and pay motor tax can have a say on the SQR. Those who don't pay any motor tax don't really deserve a say because they're not paying for it in any shape or form

Neither are the motorists. That money goes to pay every dole scrounger in the country (and the odd one who cant find a job in fairness also)

<Broken Record> If the money spent on motor tax was all spent on roads, we would all have Dual Carriageways up to our front door </Broken Record>

antoobrien

KevR wrote: »

Those cyclists who also have a car and pay motor tax can have a say on the SQR. Those who don't pay any motor tax don't really deserve a say because they're not paying for it in any shape or form

As a motorist, cyclist and taxpayer I agree with them. Raised cyclepaths should not be allowed for one simple reason, they're treated as extra wide footpaths by pedestrians (the cycle lanes between the quincentenial & ballybane is a very good example of this).

I work in Dublin and advise anyone that is thinking about cycling around Galway to have their heads examined. I was knocked off my bike 3 times in 6 months in Galway, when following the ruls of the road (which unfortunately many cyclists do not do). I've been cycling in Dublin for over 3 years with not even a near miss. And the vast majority of the cycle lanes are on road, either cyclist only or as part of the (originally proposed) wide buslanes that they have in Dublin.

galwayrush

Many of the serial objectors who are against the by-pass citing the importance of the (extremely common) bog cotton in the area are also against people cutting turf on the extremely plentiful bogs in Galway.
Now the strange fact is, bog cotton only thrives on bogs that are being harvested.:rolleyes:

The Word Is Bor

I see Peter Sweetman is going on a little jolly to Europe about the GOB according to today's Irish Times.

galwayrush

The Word Is Bor wrote: »

I see Peter Sweetman is going on a little jolly to Europe about the GOB according to today's Irish Times.

Amazing how much one determined person can **** things up for the vast majority.:mad:

antoobrien

Frank Fahy has organised a trip along the oroposed route of the bypass for this Saturday. There will be an environmental consultant along to answer question and explain what they plan to do to mitigate the environmental concerns that have been raised. Interestingly he also mentioned the possibility of this reducing carbon emmisions. Anyone interested in joining the trip should fill out the form at this link: http://www.fiannafail.ie/page/m/1363c5c/3375b71c/24454463/585bcdc9/1015963750/VEsF/

Full mail

Thank you to everyone who came out with me recently to knock on doors and spread the word to get the Galway Outer Bypass moving.

Do you want to learn more about the bypass and the special nature of the land on which it must be built?

Although this project has been in development for a decade now, many people are still unaware of its proposed route.

In response to requests I received at the doors, I'm organising a short field trip along part of the bypass route this Saturday, 26 June. Will you join me?

The reason there have been so many delays on this project is concern over the environmental impact the bypass will have on the area.

That's why an environmental consultant will be present to show the design and graphics of the new Corrib Bridge crossing and the extent of the limestone paving being traversed. He'll explain the stringent efforts that the authorities have made to mitigate the effects of the bypass and the bridge across the Corrib on the surrounding ecosystem.

You can learn more about the lengths that are being taken to preserve the areas of limestone pavement in Menlo. This is, along with the slender bog cotton in Tonabrocky, the subject of the legal challenges against the bypass.

None of us want to see areas of special environmental significance affected by infrastructure projects, but the route the authorities have selected will have the least possible impact on the environment. It will also lower carbon emissions by decreasing the time we spend with our cars' engines running while sitting in traffic.

It's a win-win situation. That's why I'd like you to join me this Saturday and see for yourself:

http://fiannafail.ie/fieldtrip

Thank you,

Frank Fahey, T.D.

antoobrien

antoobrien wrote: »

Frank Fahy has organised a trip along the oroposed route of the bypass for this Saturday. There will be an environmental consultant along to answer question and explain what they plan to do to mitigate the environmental concerns that have been raised. Interestingly he also mentioned the possibility of this reducing carbon emmisions. Anyone interested in joining the trip should fill out the form at this link: http://www.fiannafail.ie/page/m/1363c5c/3375b71c/24454463/585bcdc9/1015963750/VEsF/

Full mail

This has been moved to Friday at 3.30, I presume he want to go to the hurling on Saturday.

Chris_5339762

Wonder if Frank realises that as well as the bypass being in the European courts now its officially been suspended according to the 2010 project tracker??

Might want to stop grabbing for votes Frank and tell the truth. That your government doesnt care about your constituency and never really did. If they did, they'd have made the bypass part of the M6 interurban.

antoobrien

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Might want to stop grabbing for votes Frank

Might want to email frank and tell him not to bother continuing his campaign to see this through then, if thats what you believe.

As long as someone is actively promoting for this project, i'll repost any information I have no matter what the personal slander - I'm not trying to grab votes for fahy, and I resent being accused of it, even though I understand (did so before I posted the information) that people would take it as such, so give it a rest.

The Galway independent has an article on the trip, same info as in the FF mail.

Chris_5339762

Its good that someone is campaigning for it, but Frank is doing this just for votes. Under Irish law and the planning process, they could start building the Eastern section. Its been approved. Build the western section once it gets through the courts.

But there is NO REASON why the eastern section cant be built now, except for the lack of money. There is no way the Tralee bypass for instance, should be considered before this.

Either Frank is really stupid and he doesnt know this, or more likely he knows it damn well and is just pandering for votes.

Sponge Bob

Fred Barry outs Frankeen Faheys lies.

Fred confirms what Fahey already knows. No work has been done on the 'bog cotton' section which was to be redesigned around the bog cotton.

A short recap.

1. Bypass 10 miles long or so, half of it east of the N59 and half west
2. Section west of N59 has a bit of bog cotton, is refused planning by An Bord P , section east could have proceeded.
3. Section east of N59 then ends in up Irish Courts then European court over some rocks and a rather large SAC that it clips on the fringe.

What Fred has said is that nothing is or has been done about the WESTERN section, pending the European Court decision which is probably due in 2011 or maybe 2012.

Therefore in 2011 or maybe 2012 the Western Section goes back to Route Selection and then EIS and then CPO, from scratch.

The Eastern section ( irrespective of the court findings) will be on hold while this is going on and even if the EU Court finds that the Eastern section may be built as planned it shall not be built while the NRA meanders through statutory procedures for a year or three...followed by Isaac roaring at a hearing and the EU Court again no doubt.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/14651-legal-delay-threatens-entire-outer-bypass-project

The Chief Executive of the National Roads Authority has made a staggering admission that it will be “at least several years” before the €320 million Galway City Outer Bypass even reaches the design stages, let alone construction phase.

And there are now fears that the project – which includes a fifth bridge over the Corrib – may never go ahead.


The comments by the roads chief are being seen as an admission by the NRA that the project – which is currently before the European Court of Justice – could now be ‘dead in the water’.


NRA Chief Fred Barry made the remarks in a letter to Deputy Noel Grealish earlier this month, saying: “Given the involvement of the European Court, it will at least be several years before detailed design can commence,” said Mr Barry.

ohnoigotsick

i had friends up for gael force last weekend and they could not belive the traffic in galway. this by pass needs to be built

KevR

Left Athenry at 6pm, got to Westside at 7pm. It only took 12 mins or so to get from Athenry Town Centre to Doughiska (approx 17km); it then took me 48 mins to travel 8km across Galway. No accidents, no traffic lights out of order, no roadworks....just the usual bad traffic. I'm glad I didn't leave Athenry at 5pm because it probably would have taken me an hour and a half!

For those of you who aren't familiar with Galway, 'Westside' is an inner suburb a few km West of the City Centre. Thank god I don't live in one of the outer western suburbs like Barna!

dubhthach

KevR wrote: »

Left Athenry at 6pm, got to Westside at 7pm. It only took 12 mins or so to get from Athenry Town Centre to Doughiska (approx 17km); it then took me 48 mins to travel 8km across Galway. No accidents, no traffic lights out of order, no roadworks....just the usual bad traffic. I'm glad I didn't leave Athenry at 5pm because it probably would have taken me an hour and a half!

For those of you who aren't familiar with Galway, 'Westside' is an inner suburb a few km West of the City Centre. Thank god I don't live in one of the outer western suburbs like Barna!

It use to take me regulary 30-45minutes to get from Ballybrit to Salthill and that's 4years ago! awh well these days I have a 10minute commute in Dublin using the East-link bridge.

?Cee?view

dubhthach wrote: »

It use to take me regulary 30-45minutes to get from Ballybrit to Salthill and that's 4years ago! awh well these days I have a 10minute commute in Dublin using the East-link bridge.

I divide my time between Dublin and Galway.

I remember when Galway people used to be in awe of how awful the traffic was in Dublin. Now Dublin is so much easier to get around than Galway. It's night and day really.

?Cee?view

KevR wrote: »

Left Athenry at 6pm, got to Westside at 7pm. It only took 12 mins or so to get from Athenry Town Centre to Doughiska (approx 17km); it then took me 48 mins to travel 8km across Galway. No accidents, no traffic lights out of order, no roadworks....just the usual bad traffic. I'm glad I didn't leave Athenry at 5pm because it probably would have taken me an hour and a half!

For those of you who aren't familiar with Galway, 'Westside' is an inner suburb a few km West of the City Centre. Thank god I don't live in one of the outer western suburbs like Barna!

Last Wednesday (middle of the day, not particularly a busy time) I drove from Knocknacarra to the start of the N6 via the Docks and Renmore in approx 55 minutes. That's at a guess, about 8 - 9 k.

I continued from there to the Four Courts on Dublin's Quays in 1 hour and 35 Minutes for about 200k

Many thanks to the Green Party (Unelected, Senator O'Brolchain particularly), Labour Party and the various other NIMBYs in Galway opposed to the bypass. I really enjoyed my snail's pace Galway tour.

Mucco

Does anyone have a link to the cost benefit analysis for this bypass?

Thanks,

M

?Cee?view

Mucco wrote: »

Does anyone have a link to the cost benefit analysis for this bypass?

Thanks,

M

Do you need one?

Just see the 4 or 5 posts above.

Sponge Bob

The FF bit of the cabinet (including Dempsey ) is trapped in the Ardilaun hotel because Galway is completely gridlocked after a pedestrian was knocked over at lunchtime, this is ****ing ridiculous ...

?Cee?view

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The FF bit of the cabinet (including Dempsey ) is trapped in the Ardilaun hotel because Galway is completely gridlocked after a pedestrian was knocked over at lunchtime, this is ****ing ridiculous ...

Maybe O'Brolcháin and the Greens will rescue Cowen and give him a crossbar to Oranmore on his shiny subsidised bicycle? After all, we apparently don't need a bypass as cycle paths are going to solve Galway's traffic chaos.

Sponge Bob

churchview wrote: »

Maybe O'Brolcháin and the Greens will rescue Cowen and give him a crossbar to Oranmore on his shiny subsidised bicycle?

Funny that, the last time I actually saw O Brolcháin was in that very same Ardilaun which was his sort of 'constituency office' when he was a councillor in Galway.

I'd say the FFers would wrap the bike around his neck and drag the bicycle and impaled senator around the Ardilaun carpark tied to a state merc ...more like ...while tweeting back at Dan Boyle of course

KevR

Today was the worst traffic I have ever seen anywhere in my entire life. It can only be described as an extraordinary event. And all because one very short stretch of road was closed because of an accident. It doesn't say much for the Galway road/transport network.

I'm glad all the Fianna Fáilers are here to witness it.

@churchview: the 'Smart Travel Plan' (i.e. - a few random cycle and bus lanes) that the Greens think will reduce cars use by 50%. Hilarious!


I ordered a pizza about an hour ago and it still ain't here. I'm starting to feel dizzy I'm so hungry.

dubhthach

KevR wrote: »

I ordered a pizza about an hour ago and it still ain't here. I'm starting to feel dizzy I'm so hungry.

Is the Pizza free if it takes over an hour to deliver?

It sounds like a "perfect storm" hit the traffic in Galway today.

antoobrien

dubhthach wrote: »

Is the Pizza free if it takes over an hour to deliver?

It sounds like a "perfect storm" hit the traffic in Galway today.

A few extra mercs about brings the city to gridlock:rolleyes:

apoeiguq3094y

KevR wrote: »

I'm glad all the Fianna Fáilers are here to witness it.

Its not Fianna Fail that you ahve to blame for the lack of a bypass. FF are big supproters of it, its the successive Labour party controlled councils that you can thanks for one of the worst road networks known to man.

antoobrien

KevR wrote: »

Today was the worst traffic I have ever seen anywhere in my entire life. It can only be described as an extraordinary event. And all because one very short stretch of road was closed because of an accident. It doesn't say much for the Galway road/transport network.

I'm glad all the Fianna Fáilers are here to witness it.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/15011-galway-gridlock-rounds-cowens-bad-trip

Poor Brian, it only took him 45 minutes to get from the Ardilaun to the motorway leaving at 5pm.

KevR

I emailed the Galway City Council roads department to ask if the results of last year's huge traffic counting exercise are publicly available.

This is the reply I got:

Galway City Council wrote:

11th October 2010,

Good Evening Kevin,

Further to your email this morning, Mr. *******, Senior Executive Enginner has advised on the matter.

We are carrying out Traffic Counts on an annual basis throughout the City. The current data has not been made
available on our website. The large volume of data is presented in such a way that it would not be readable for general use.
Primarily it is used for updating our Traffic Model of the City Networks only.

The data is obtained by carrying out 15mins traffic counts for different vehicle types, per lane, travelling in each direction
over a period of 7 days at various locations.

However, our website - www.galwaycity.ie contains daily flows at key locations (calculations were amended to make them
readable for the general public) under our Smarter Travel Bid by the Galway Transportation Unit Section. This information
may be of interest to you.

I hope the above information is of assistance to you.

Regards,

****** *******,
Staff Officer,
Transportation, Infrastructure, Recreation & Amenity Section.

I can't for the life of me find what the staff officer is talking about.


All I could find was this:
Average Annual Daily Traffic (AADT) Counts of 139,122 for the main approach roads to Galway City have been recorded with vehicular levels in excess of 8,347 at peak hours. While these counts do not depict the purpose of travel i.e. for work/education/leisure etc, the figures at peak hours suggest a car dominated work/school related trips. Notably, the greatest traffic volumes are recorded from the east, and south eastern area with an AADT count of 95,222 for N17, R339, N6 and R338 and N18.
[Source: Page 5 of this document]

Better than nothing but I'd really like to see traffic counts for individual roads and not just approach roads, but other roads including all of the 4 bridges.

antoobrien

KevR wrote: »

Notably, the greatest traffic volumes are recorded from the east, and south eastern area with an AADT count of 95,222 for N17, R339, N6 and R338 and N18.
[Source: Page 5 of this document]

Better than nothing but I'd really like to see traffic counts for individual roads and not just approach roads, but other roads including all of the 4 bridges.

Not exactly a shock that the majority of the traffic comes in the Tuam Moniivea and (from Oranmore, where the Gort road joins) Dublin Rds as the majority of people in the county live east of the corrib.

I'd love to see what the counts are in the Terryland/Woodquay area as this is where all the traffic is essentially funneled by the current roads

Aidan1

There's some really good data here;

http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/CommunityCulture/ProjectsandSchemes/GalwayCityAtlas20082009/FileEnglish,5903,en.pdf

It basically shows what has already been explained, most of the recent population growth in Galway has been on one side of the river, while the jobs are elsewhere. Even in a country where poor urban planning is a given, this deserves a particular award for short sightedness.

serfboard

Aidan1 wrote: »

There's some really good data here;

http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/CommunityCulture/ProjectsandSchemes/GalwayCityAtlas20082009/FileEnglish,5903,en.pdf

It basically shows what has already been explained, most of the recent population growth in Galway has been on one side of the river, while the jobs are elsewhere. Even in a country where poor urban planning is a given, this deserves a particular award for short sightedness.

Agree with your comment and thank you very much for sharing this information. Very interesting report. I like this:

This reflects the need for a bus service that links to the East Side Industrial Corridor.

Which I have been banging on about for years. Frequent, reliable public transport (i.e. bus service) linking Knocknacarra (which is called Barna in the report - because most of urban Knocknacara is in the Barna electoral area) to Ballybrit particularly at peak times is so obviously called for it's maddeningly frustrating that it hasn't been delivered. Hopefully, the Bus lanes on Seamus Quirke road will facilitate that happening.

antoobrien

serfboard wrote: »

Agree with your comment and thank you very much for sharing this information. Very interesting report. I like this:



Which I have been banging on about for years. Frequent, reliable public transport (i.e. bus service) linking Knocknacarra (which is called Barna in the report - because most of urban Knocknacara is in the Barna electoral area) to Ballybrit particularly at peak times is so obviously called for it's maddeningly frustrating that it hasn't been delivered. Hopefully, the Bus lanes on Seamus Quirke road will facilitate that happening.

That's ok, but it will only attenuate part of the problem. What about the 20,000 plus cars that pass through Claregalway every day? They're not all heading into CG village or Oranmore, where'll we put those vehicles? All of these eventually run into the same chokepoints at Moneenagehsa, Cemetry Cross & Headford Rd RAB.

Public transport is not a valid option because it is unreliable and expensive. It's unreliable as it has to use the same roads as other vehicles and we don't have the space to make the kind of QBCs that make Dublin Bus bearible (not good, mind you) an they eventually get caught somewhere.

As for the expense, look at the prices, 1.60 flat rate for all buesses in Galway. So going from Ballybrit to Salthill is charged twice as much as going from Mervie to Salthill using solely public transport (becuase you have to change bus).

The only real way of making PT in galway an option is by removing unncessesary cars from the main arteries out of town i.e. the Tuam, Headford, Dublin, Bearna & Moycullen Rds.
outrageous when you consider Mervue to Salthill is the same price)

serfboard

antoobrien wrote: »

That's ok, but it will only attenuate part of the problem. What about the 20,000 plus cars that pass through Claregalway every day? They're not all heading into CG village or Oranmore, where'll we put those vehicles?

Indeed. The solution I was proposing would only solve one part of the problem. The M17 will take most of the traffic out of Claregalway. As to those who believe it won't, I would suggest that M17+M6 will be quicker than N17. However, you'll then have a massive problem at Doughiska.

antoobrien wrote: »

They're not all heading into CG village or Oranmore, where'll we put those vehicles?

Yes, but they're not all heading into the city centre either.

antoobrien wrote: »

All of these eventually run into the same chokepoints at Moneenagehsa, Cemetry Cross & Headford Rd RAB.

Not correct. The biggest destinations for commuters into Galway are Ballybrit/Parkmore/Mervue/GMIT, NUIG/UHG, and then the centre. Moneenagehsa and Cemetry Cross don't feature for what the report calls the "East side industrial corridor".

As for Claregalway, ask yourself this question - there are bus lanes there now - why don't more people get the bus? Some possible reasons:

A. People are unaware that a service exists. However, Burkes bus serve Tuam, Dunmore, Milltown and Headford, Loughrea and Craughwell are served by Citylink, Athenry has the train and that doesn't include Bus Eireann services.
B. Public Transport is insufficient in terms of times and destinations.
C. People have drop-offs to do along the way
D. They just don't like using public transport (or buses specifically).

antoobrien wrote: »

Public transport is not a valid option because it is unreliable and expensive. It's unreliable as it has to use the same roads as other vehicles and we don't have the space to make the kind of QBCs that make Dublin Bus bearible (not good, mind you) an they eventually get caught somewhere.

There are bus lanes in Claregalway and along the Dublin Road in Galway. There will soon be bus lanes on Seamus Quirke Road too. We're slowly getting the message in Galway.

As for your other point, I agree that there is too much congestion in the city centre. There is also too much car parking in the city centre, which encourages congestion. And that's why after the outer bypass is built, we will have to get much tougher in Galway. We will have to introduce congestion charges or hike up car parking charges. That's the stick. The carrot will be, as I've said already, Bus Park & Ride coupled with QBCs, with buses going to where people work i.e. Ballybrit/Parkmore/Mervue, NUIG/UHG, GMIT and the City Centre in that order.

Put them in Barna, Dangan, Ballindooley, Loughgeorge, Doughiska/Oranmore and eventually Rathmorrissey when the M17/M18 gets built, and have low-cost services every 15 minutes at peak times.

antoobrien wrote: »

As for the expense, look at the prices, 1.60 flat rate for all buesses in Galway. So going from Ballybrit to Salthill is charged twice as much as going from Mervie to Salthill using solely public transport (becuase you have to change bus).

Agree. Look how successful Park & Ride is at Christmas. It's cheap and it's frequent.

antoobrien wrote: »

The only real way of making PT in galway an option is by removing unncessesary cars from the main arteries out of town i.e. the Tuam, Headford, Dublin, Bearna & Moycullen Rds.

Agree. Bus P&R and car parking/congestion charging will solve this though. As for QBCs, well we are getting bus lanes, but we will also have to think about making certain roads bus-only, possibly just at peak times. They do this in other countries already. Roads like Lough Atalia, College Road, Prospect Hill.

We will also need Real Time Passenger Information like they are rolling out in Dublin and like Bus Eireann have for expressway services for Galway City services too. I don't think that we will need the fancy bus stops as you can check by text and most people will have smart phones eventually.

In short, we will need carrot and stick. Bus lanes suggest to me that we are getting there, albeit slowly. We next need more (yes, and cheaper) city bus services and P&R for the out-of-towners. The stick of parking/congestion charging and bus-only streets will also have to be adopted.

Public Transport will solve Galway's problems eventually, because it will have to. The centre is too small for the volume of traffic. But we also need the bypass.

antoobrien

Just listening to GBFM (hope that the tribune etc have an article on this) - according one of the sat nav providers (not sure which one, missed the start) based on their figures: Galway is the most congested town/city in Ireland

I'd love to get hold of their figures to see where they see the problems.

Sponge Bob

antoobrien wrote: »

I'd love to get hold of their figures to see where they see the problems.

Everywhere from Salthill to the Blackrock Clinic every working day from 4-7 PM ...and at weekends too when it rains.

KevR

I can just about resist the temptation to post this in the M1 widening thread. People getting seriously offended in there when I tried to make the point that delays experienced on a short section of the M1 (a fully grade seperated motorway) are nowhere near as bad as delays experienced throughout the whole of Galway City (where vast volumes of traffic gets funnelled into a small number of at-grade roundabouts and signalised junctions).


On another note, Galway City Council are again carrying out a huge traffic counting excercise. I really wish they would make their findings publically available like the NRA do with their traffic counts.

Fozzie Bear

antoobrien wrote: »

Just listening to GBFM (hope that the tribune etc have an article on this) - according one of the sat nav providers (not sure which one, missed the start) based on their figures: Galway is the most congested town/city in Ireland

I'd love to get hold of their figures to see where they see the problems.

Heard this too on Newstalk I think. They mentioned "TomTom" as having carried out the survey so I presume it was them.

Galway is the most congested city in Ireland followed by Limerick and Dublin according to their research. No real surprise to any of us that have driven across town during peak times or indeed off peak too. Its just crazy that we are still one of the few remaining major urban areas without a bypass in Ireland. The chances of us getting one are decreasing by the week with the way things are going now.

Bloody bog cotton and tree hugging do gooders. Jesus wept!

KevR

The Irish Examiner has the story:

Gridlocked Galway heads list of congested cities

By Evelyn Ring
Friday, November 12, 2010
GALWAY is the most congested city in Ireland with almost 40% of roads gridlocked, a study has found.


Dublin and Limerick come a close second and third, with both cities having close to 30% of roads clogged with traffic.

And it is bad news for Cork and Waterford who took fourth and fifth place in the top traffic hotspots.

The study was published yesterday by TomTom, a leading satellite navigator provider, with rankings based on how fast cars can travel on a city or town’s road network.

The percentage measurements were made by the anonymous speed data that TomTom collects every day from drivers who use its devices. Wherever drivers were travelling at only 70% or less than the posted speed limit, traffic was defined as congested. And the congestion meant that an hour-long commute would include 20 minutes or more of significant delays.

The percentages refer to main roads that experienced congestion during a day.

"Navigation isn’t just about getting from A to B anymore. It’s about finding the quickest and easiest route to your destination," said TomTom’s Ireland country manager David Crotty.

TomTom also plans to publish a list of Ireland’s most congested roads next month, but two such roads in Munster have been revealed already — the M8 going towards the N8 and the Commons Road, Cork.

TomTom’s chief technology manager, Mark Gretton, said the information was extremely reliable because it was based on the actual measured flow rate of every single road. He pointed out that the congestion rate for Galway was high because it had fewer roads in the city. "Dublin may have more kilometres of roadways but, as a percentage, Galway was higher," he explained. "Because we got this database showing how fast everyone is actually travelling at any given time on a road, we can work out the most congested street and most congested time and build better ‘sat navs’. Instead of basing a route on road categories, which is how most systems work, we use it on the measured average speed and that means a driver is given a different route for a different time of the day."

Mr Gretton said a division of TomTom specialised in extracting statistics and making it available to local authorities to help planners. "Government have been trying to collect this kind of data for years using students and strips in the road, which is very expensive. We have 45m motorists driving around Europe and feeding the information back all the time."

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfmhgbcwojkf/rss2/

antoobrien

KevR wrote: »

The Irish Examiner has the story:

Cheers, I missed most of the story on GBFM and was altered to it by someone listening in at home