M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

westtip

I just wonder sometimes do An Taisce do themselves any favours - some of the stuff they come out with is admirable and then I read letters like this one

http://www.galwayindependent.com/letters/letters/can%27t-have-by%11pass-and-public-transport-system/

Can't have by-pass and public transport system
Wednesday, 14 October 2009
Dear Editor,
In the light of the financial crisis that faces this country, it is hard to see just how the High Court decision to throw out the environmental concerns many people have over the construction of a €340 million by-pass of Galway city will allay those genuine concerns and lead to its construction.

This proposed road simply will never be built. It makes no environmental sense to destroy our protected landscapes, neither does it make economic sense to put the construction of such an environmentally damaging road ahead of spending money on decent public transport alternatives, which are now being used as an alternative to building more roads in many other European cities.

The proposal for a by-pass of Galway first appeared over 20 years ago, as soon as it was realised that the current by-pass and bridge crossing at Terryland was going to be unable to deal with the unsustainable growth of car traffic. The current delay and costs of over €12 million due to planning, CPO processes and environmental concerns has become a cause celebre for the pro-development lobby led by Frank Fahey TD.

The use of the humble, but protected, bog cotton has replicated the outcry over the snail in the delays experienced in building the Kildare by-pass (N7) in 2004. FF Senator Martin Mansergh, in 2004, made the following statement to the Irish Times during the debate over that road, "There was the ridiculous delay to the N7 bypass at Kildare because of a supposedly threatened species of snail. I am deeply suspicious of an expertise that cannot be verified. Common sense and experience tells us that snails are virtually ineradicable and the miniscule risk of a marginal change in the biodiversity of this particular species is surely a tolerable one."

For Senator Mansergh then in Kildare, and Frank Fahey now in Galway, to suggest that a small snail, or in our case bog cotton, and it alone were the reason for environmentalists objections is an attempt to trivialise the issue and to ridicule the views of those opposed to the plans in an effort to gain public support for the road as originally designed.

As independent transport campaigner, Brian Guckian has said, "You simply cannot have both an outer by-pass and a fully functioning public transport system in Galway" since the money for both is simply not there. If you get the road, you will never see public transport improvements in Galway and we will be consigned to seeing traffic gridlock in Galway continue for decades to come.

Yours faithfully,
Derrick Hambleton,
Chairman,
An Taisce – Galway Association, Kingston, Galway

OK so build the Bypass, improve bus services more bus lanes into the city and around it introduce congestion charging - the bypass is needed to stop F'ing through traffic clogging the city up - it should be designed as such, and if it was planned to be a bypass then perhaps An Taisce could understand the need for it and actually support it.

?Cee?view

An Taisce loses any shred of credibility that it may retain by being associated with Mr. Hambleton.

He opposes pretty much everything on principle.

What he failed to mention was that the snails in Kildare were accomodated by building a culvert which allows them to pass under the road, a simple solution that was implemented in a very short time once the econuts were appeased.

He also fails to mention that Kildare town has been rejuvenated now that heavy traffic has been removed from its centre.

...but then again he wouldn't mention either of those facts as they don't suit his contrarian and negative agenda.

Amtmann

And who, again, is Brian Guckian? I wonder if he would have opposed the construction of Cork's South Ring Road or the Shannon Tunnel had he been active when these were first seriously considered.

?Cee?view

Brian Guckian is the "independent transport researcher" who drew up the proposal for GLUAS several year ago. A perfect person to use to provide a balanced opinion in a rail versus road argument :rolleyes:

Sponge Bob

churchview wrote: »

What he failed to mention was that the snails in Kildare were accomodated

On a technicality it was a giant plastic trough into which a motorway was put.

The plastic trough was built to hold water back in a bog where the snails lived . The usual suspects being Sweetmans lot the 'Friends' and An Taisce and the Peatlands lot and their buddies in the National Parks Service insisted .

A potted history of their campaign may be found here for your amusements ( for now anyway )

Anyway , as you all know the past few summers have been very wet.

The poor little c***s have allegedly drowned and are now extinct because the FIE and an Taisce and the NPWS have no engineers and no engineering capability and they insisted on overengineering the plastic trough which caused the water to back up !

That cost IR£25m to do .

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/pound25m-bill-for-snails-pace-on-bypass-343590.html

None of FIE or An Taisce or the NPWS are prepared to admit it was their fault the snail is extincted for making so much silly noise back in the day because they never EVER admit they are wrong

KevR

Furet wrote: »

And who, again, is Brian Guckian? I wonder if he would have opposed the construction of Cork's South Ring Road or the Shannon Tunnel had he been active when these were first seriously considered.

Or perhaps the M50, what with him living in Dublin and all. He never seems to mention that the M50 was built before the Luas or that fact that Dublin got both a ring road and public transport (I don't begrudge Dublin in the slightest, just pointing out that they got both a ring road and trams, not one or the other).

I genuinely wonder if it would have been possible to build the Luas if the M50 had not been built. Surely there would be a lot more traffic using the city streets that the tram lines were put on so it would have been a lot harder to justify shutting streets off permanently for a tram line and the disruption during construction would have crippled the city.

Sponge Bob

Furet wrote: »

And who, again, is Brian Guckian?

Good question, many answers in his very own 'Watch' thread

?Cee?view

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Good question, many answers in his very own 'Watch' thread

Jesus, that stuff is unreal :eek: The guy is absolutely nuts!!! I'd love to meet him and see if he's actually the professor from Back to the Future. Will his railways be powered by flux capacitors??!!

Thanks so much SpogeBob. People could be taken in by freaks such as this guy so it's great that you've got him tagged.

Sponge Bob

churchview wrote: »

Jesus, that stuff is unreal :eek: The guy is absolutely nuts!!!

Brian Guckian is the main person behind this Gluas idiocy but not the only one mind!!!

Mind you look at who he has conned :eek:

Amtmann

Well, I'd just like to know how someone becomes an "independent transport researcher" and gets quoted in local papers all the time.

westtip

Ok folks this geyser is writing in this insignificant journal but still getting media attention - so everyone should simply type out their own letter and post it on the Galway independent website - or perhaps a general letter which many of us can sign and submit - these w****kers have such a superiority complex about their own intelect - the only way to challenge them is to go into print and say no sonny you are f****king wrong, and we are fed up listening to your pontificating bullsh1t. At least go on the Galway independent website and under his letter give him the comments he deserves.

Chris_533976

Most of this forum are better qualified to be 'independant transport researchers' than Guckian.

westtip

There are a couple of good responses on the Galway indpendent websit to this tosser. Needs more though. Current replies to thsi twat are here http://www.galwayindependent.com/letters/letters/can%27t-have-by%11pass-and-public-transport-system/

This person does not represent me .
written by Cathal O Meara, October 14, 2009

This is the sort of Luddite twaddle that angers me .

You cannot have a Tram System without first having a Bypass , there is no ROOM.

There is no need for a Tram Network that can take 70 persons per carriage , run in train units of 3 carriages = 210 persons per train and at 4 minute intervals = 210x15 per hour OR 3050 persons per direction per hour save for a 20 min morning peak and a 20 min evening peak .

Having brought these drivers in in the morning for the 20 minute peak you then need to move at most 1050 persons per hour per direction for the rest of the day. That means you need to send two out of 3 drivers home after 20 minutes work or 30 minutes work in teh morning .

This tram network is complete overkill for Galway.

Trams are typically deployed nowadays in cities with 150000 persons and undergrounds in cities of 500000 persons .

Anyway , where are we supposed to get the space to build this without a Bypass to take the bloody cars out of the way first ???? if you build it on Galway streets, as is, you will completely gridlock the city and you will completely bankrupts the entore central business district whose rates will in part pay for this thing.

The Chamber of Commerce look like complete prats in giving this scheme their backing.


Are An Taisce now on drugs?
written by Brendan Quinn, October 15, 2009

If you google this Brian Guckian guy and do some research about him in various internet forums - for example Boards.ie you will soon see the kind of transport planning expert he purports to be - Find any scheme with a sniff of so called environmental opposition and his name is likely to crop up. Galway needs a by pass built so it is a by pass and not a hop in and out the city road - it is desperately needed to get the city moving again - Now you can have a bypass and still have good public transport - by simply doing stuff like - good bus lanes in and out of the city, possibly a congestion charge with some exemptions for those permanently resident in the city (not students though to discourage students using cars in the city) good safe segregated cycle lanes, first class and over serviced park and ride schemes on the edge of the city in terms of numbers of buses available 247 in and out of the city, take these steps and you will get the city moving again - Mr Guckian goes around the country pickng up pet projects and then declaring some kind of credibility as an independent transport planning consultant - most of his ideas are completely pie in the sky fantasy land stuff, people like this should not be allowed to take some kind of highground and label themselves self appointed experts and spokespeople. Check Mr. Guckians various pet projects out and see for yourself. The Gluas is a joke idea for Galway, Get real not only does this idea have to be thrown into the Corrib, the people who espouse it need to be silenced by the majority of us who do want the bypass because we know without it Galway will strangle itself.

Get up there and post your views on the Galway independent site!

?Cee?view

Is this for real?

Not one of these measures will work without traffic that doesn't need to be in the City, being taken out of the City on a bypass.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/9183-city-bids-%E2%82%AC20m-ease-traffic-problems

The Galway Transportation Unit will next week finalise its bid for up to €20million from a ‘pot’ of €50 million central funding available under the Smarter Travel initiative that could transform Galway with a new sustainable transport system.
Galway had positioned itself earlier this year as a front-runner to beat Limerick, Cork, and Waterford to win the competitive process and secure millions of euro for public transport initiatives but the funding all hinges on a successful submission, which has to be submitted by October 30.
It is understood the Transportation Unit is applying to the Department of Transport for around €20 million of the €50 million Smarter Travel Project Fund – the money would be used to implement policies to increase the use of walking, cycling and use of rail and buses for commuting to and travelling around the city.
The Transportation Unit’s wide-ranging submission, which is a joint bid from Galway City and County Councils, will reflect the views of the public as well as transport ‘stakeholders’ in the city.
Park and Ride facilities, increased bus frequencies and varied routes, and more pedestrian and cyclist friendly measures are just some of the elements that will be submitted as part of the bid.
The Transportation Unit had two strands of consultation with the public in order to have a wide a range of views as possible as they prepared the bid. The first strand was a public consultation process, which received a total of 38 submissions fromthe public as well as from groups such as the Galway City Community Forum, Galway Cycling Campaign, and transport consultants.
Some of the suggestions included: All roundabouts in the city should have raised pedestrian crossings; Park and Ride sites were identified; Lower speed limits should be implemented in the city; introduce a rent-a-bike scheme like the new initiative recently rolled-out in Dublin; more buses at peak times; more varied bus routes;more bike parking facilities and more measures to protect cyclists.

Sponge Bob

It is all green sounding BS for a green minister who allegdly has a €50m kitty . They basically want to get the money to do the Séamus Quirke Road bus lanes .

KevR

wrote:

Some of the suggestions included: All roundabouts in the city should have raised pedestrian crossings; Lower speed limits should be implemented in the city;

I hope they mean pedestrian bridge crossings at roundabouts and not speed bump style zebra crossings at the entrances/exits to roundabout.

Our speed limits are fine. We practically have a city wide 50kmh limit as it is. We even have 50kmh on the ring road where it's not DC.

Chris_533976

All roundabouts in the city should have raised pedestrian crossings; Park and Ride sites were identified; Lower speed limits should be implemented in the city; introduce a rent-a-bike scheme like the new initiative recently rolled-out in Dublin; more buses at peak times; more varied bus routes;more bike parking facilities and more measures to protect cyclists.

Would this work in Galway? If they put some rental things in the suburbs and made it practical to commute on them then this would be more successful than any bus expansion.

Although the Seamus Quirke road bus lanes will be the single most important public transport development in Galway ever. It'll hugely increase the reliability and attractiveness of the Red Buses and the 4 and 5 BE buses.

serfboard

Galway Transportation Unit wrote:

Park and Ride facilities, increased bus frequencies and varied routes ... more buses at peak times; more varied bus routes

Glad to see that finally, someone is thinking along these lines.

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Although the Seamus Quirke road bus lanes will be the single most important public transport development in Galway ever. It'll hugely increase the reliability and attractiveness of the Red Buses and the 4 and 5 BE buses.

Agree. It should extend all the way back to the Western Distributor Road, which should have had Bus Lanes put in while it was being built. I hope it extends as far as the Seamus Quirke Road Roundabout.

Then let the city get on with providing cross-town routes - specifically Knocknacarra->Ballybrit using the bus lanes and quincentennial bridge.

It's all very well having Bus Lanes - you must provide the service if you want to encourage people to switch from using their cars. What we definitely do not need are Bus Lanes with the West of Ireland equivalent of tumbleweed blowing along them.

antoobrien

serfboard wrote: »

It's all very well having Bus Lanes - you must provide the service if you want to encourage people to switch from using their cars. What we definitely do not need are Bus Lanes with the West of Ireland equivalent of tumbleweed blowing along them.

Don't think that anyone will disagree that public transport needs to be improved (1st bus is too late etc), but with the quantity of cars coming in from outside of town and the history of poor provision of these services (the Christmas service only serving Eyre square, despite the multitude of factories etc between there and the racecourse) makes me wonder if anyone would use them.

Chris_533976

Franks bypass signs are back up.

KevR

Galway News wrote:

Funding for bypass is 'rock solid' says minister

Fri 23rd October 2009
Governement is 100% committed


THE Government’s funding guarantee for the city’s outer by pass – estimated to cost more than €320m – remains “absolutely rock solid”, Minister Éamon Ó Cuív, has told the Galway City Tribune.
The Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs Minister, told this newspaper yesterday that there was no deviation at Cabinet level as to the top priority status which the outer bypass enjoyed, despite the current financial climate.
“While the issue may currently be bogged down on legal and planning issues, the Government is committed 100% to the construction of the city’s outer bypass.
“The case for it is irrefutable. How can businesses from Knocknacarra and Barna, back to Clifden, continue to survive when they have to, on a daily basis, survive an hour long journey through the city?
“Someone leaving the eastern fringe of the city would be more than half way to Dublin by the time another commuter would have made it from Knocknacarra to Oranmore.
“This has to change – Galway has to move on. We cannot be left behind. Just look this week at the difference that the new bypass has made to the South-East. The city is being clogged up with traffic, much of which doesn’t need to be going through the urban centre,” said Minister Ó Cuív.
He also told the Galway City Tribune that the Government was working very diligently behind the scenes to ensure that the National Parks and Wildlife Service (NPWS) would be involved at a very early planning stage in new road development.
“We just cannot have the NPWS coming in at a very late stage and saying ‘this’ is what they don’t want. I, and the Government, want the NPWS to be involved from the start and say what they do want.
“They must engage far earlier in the process in a positive fashion and bring their views forwards through a negotiation process rather than a confrontational one. This system needs to be put in place,” said Minister Ó Cuív.
He also said that he wanted to make it clear that the function of the Attorney General in any current cases before the High Court was purely on the basis of providing the best legal advice for the Government.
But Minister Ó Cuív indicated that his “gut feeling” on the overall legal wrangles surrounding the project was that it might take a ruling at European level to lay down a “once-and- for-all precedent”.
What had to be resolved, he added, was whether the process could be taken directly at this stage to the European Justice or Commission level, or whether it would have go through the Irish Supreme
Court first.
“While I welcome the latest High Court decision clearing the way for the eastern section of the bypass to go ahead, this looks as if it will go further,” said Minister Ó Cuív.
The €600m Waterford bypass was opened last week by Minister Martin Cullen, while the €800m Limerick Tunnel project is due for completion early next year – backers of the Galway bypass are adamant that this project could also have been happening at the same time, only for the objections and legal wrangles.
The 22km bypass is proposed to run from the M6 between Doughiska and Briar Hill to the Spiddal Road between Barna and Furbo, with a new fifth bridge over the Corrib.

The bit in bold is very true unfortunately.

Sponge Bob

KevR wrote: »

The bit in bold is very true unfortunately.

The bit in bold is true every evening and more so since they made a complete balls of Moneen .

It will be true for 6 hours a day , morning and evening , if they dig up the Séamus Quirke road to put buslanes on it as they are threatening to do next year and will continue to be true for 3 hours a day thereafter , 1 hour in the mornings and 2 in the evenings

Galway is basically a giant Lucan pre widening , only worse

?Cee?view

Well said Dev Og!!!

I've ancestors spinning in their graves for saying such a thing, but it's great to see such sentiments being expressed in relation to the bypass. Hopefully, a bit of momentum on the positive side, in support of the bypass, will develop.

O Cuiv even has a smidgen more credibility than Frankeen and certainly more than O'Broccoli (the deposed councillor), Hambleton (the blow-in guardian of Irish heritage), and their ilk.

This has really cheered me up on a Friday.....:D

Chris_533976

Good that its being pushed and apparently being kept an eye on.

But it wont cost the Government €300mil, because this is one of the four PPPs and as such the government will only have to pay the land CPOs, the PPP consortium will pay the rest.

The best news in that article is that this is absolute top priority and may still be pushed even with the finances down the toilet.

Private Joker

churchview wrote: »

What he failed to mention was that the snails in Kildare were accomodated by building a culvert which allows them to pass under the road, a simple solution that was implemented in a very short time once the econuts were appeased.

There was actually a lot more done than that. The area affected was pollardstown fen about 5 km from the bypass.

the objection was that the bypass would drain the aquafir of pollardstown fen.
The snails were only an indicator species of the unique habitat.

The solution was to install a geotextile membrane, basically sealing the part of the bypass that was in cut.

It is a ridiculous situation that no agreement could be made between the parties. I think from recollection that there were a number of fatalities during the delay in the construction. But i'm open to correction on that.

L1011

Private Joker wrote: »

I think from recollection that there were a number of fatalities during the delay in the construction. But i'm open to correction on that.

Seeing as it took TWENTY SIX YEARS from design to opening on the Kildare BP, I believe it was more than a few fatalities.

KevR

churchview wrote: »

This has really cheered me up on a Friday.....:D

It's great to hear some support from a public figure (other than Frank Fahey). Makes a nice change from the small handful of people who are constantly in the media giving reasons why it shouldn't go ahead.

L1011

Chris_533976 wrote: »

But it wont cost the Government €300mil, because this is one of the four PPPs and as such the government will only have to pay the land CPOs, the PPP consortium will pay the rest.

Unless its hard tolled, it'll cost the government a lot more than €300m over time!

schween

KevR wrote: »

The bit in bold is very true unfortunately.

I used to believe that people were being a bit dramatic about this. I thought maybe an hour but there's no way you could spend that long in traffic in Galway.

Then I got a job in Knocknacarra, I live the far side of Oranmore. I finished work between 5 and 5.30. Just horrendous it was.

Chris_533976

MYOB wrote: »

Unless its hard tolled, it'll cost the government a lot more than €300m over time!

True, but they wont have to pay right now. And as we've seen with this government, they dont give a **** about future payments of anything