M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

Tech3

churchview wrote: »

Am i right in thinking that if the bypass isn't completed, then all the Limerick/Cork/Shannon etc. traffic will very efficiently be funnelled into the Doughiska roundabout as well rather than seperately coming in via Oranmore?

Yeah I doubt many will get back onto the current N18 at the Kiltiernan interchange and having to get through Clarinbridge and the Oranmore bypass to get into Galway. Going via the M18 and M6 would be an easier journey. Trafiic may be busy from the M17 also but we will have to see how many commuters will use the route.

Therefore the AADT reaching Doughiska will be quite high. That junction should really be a free-flow one instead of a roundabout with two slips.

?Cee?view

tech2 wrote: »

Yeah I doubt many will get back onto the current N18 at the Kiltiernan interchange and having to get through Clarinbridge and the Oranmore bypass to get into Galway. Going via the M18 and M6 would be an easier journey. Trafiic may be busy from the M17 also but we will have to see how many commuters will use the route.

Therefore the AADT reaching Doughiska will be quite high. That junction should really be a free-flow one instead of a roundabout with two slips.

When (or is it if!), the bypass is built, will it still connect to the N/M6 via the roundabout or is it intended to build a free-flow junction? Sorry if this has been answered before.

Only in Galway could you get a roundabout cunningly located at the end of a dual carriageway and motorway!

KevR

churchview, this was posted in the M18 thread. It's the NRA's prediction for traffic using the Rathmorrissey junction and the motorways leading to/from it (M6, M17, M18).

They predict 26,000 in each direction (52,000 total) per day between Rathmorrissey and Galway. I think it's a pretty good estimate. Junction 19 lies between Rathmorrissey and the Doughiska roundabout, some people will exit at J19 and some will enter at it. It's very hard to say if J19 will add to traffic arriving at Doughiska, reduce it or if it will more or less even out.

Bosco boy

Thanks again to Niall O Brolochan, I'm sure hes using the new motorway to dublin to get to his new job as senator and he can see the benefit of decent infracture. If he had spared a thought for the lives of families on the west of the city and the west of Galway and what they have to endure sitting in gridlock then he might stand a chance of getting elected. if snails and bog cotton had votes then the green party wouldnt have to beg the government to give him a job. He certainly won't get one of the people of galway in the future.

antoobrien

churchview wrote: »

When (or is it if!), the bypass is built, will it still connect to the N/M6 via the roundabout or is it intended to build a free-flow junction? Sorry if this has been answered before.

Only in Galway could you get a roundabout cunningly located at the end of a dual carriageway and motorway!

The plans for the bypass indicate that it will be a freeflow interchange (prob something similar to kinnegad).

It also seems to indicate that a roundabout @ doughiska was always the plan.

Tech3

I think the doughiska roundabout will be part of a GSJ when the GCOB will be complete. Well that was the original plan anyway.

?Cee?view

Bosco boy wrote: »

Thanks again to Niall O Brolochan, I'm sure hes using the new motorway to dublin to get to his new job as senator and he can see the benefit of decent infracture. If he had spared a thought for the lives of families on the west of the city and the west of Galway and what they have to endure sitting in gridlock then he might stand a chance of getting elected. if snails and bog cotton had votes then the green party wouldnt have to beg the government to give him a job. He certainly won't get one of the people of galway in the future.

Bosco boy, I've been deservedly chastised for losing the run of myself on this thread, and since yesterday, I've behaved myself! But mentioning that "Senators" name is like red rag to a bull. He epitomises arrogance and the selfishness of a zealot who doesn't care about those who don't share his opinion. What galls me is that he and his disciples have blamed his demise in Galway on the Green connection with Fianna Fail. They refuse to countenance that it has anything to do with his not just ignoring, but campaigning against, the concerns of his former constituents in Galway West who are cut off from the rest of the country due to traffic gridlock.

Rant over...and I haven't insulted any posters, unless O'Brolchain is lurking here

KevR

Sorry for this rambling/rushed post but I'm in a bit of a rush..

tech2 wrote: »

Yeah I doubt many will get back onto the current N18 at the Kiltiernan interchange and having to get through Clarinbridge and the Oranmore bypass to get into Galway. Going via the M18 and M6 would be an easier journey. Trafiic may be busy from the M17 also but we will have to see how many commuters will use the route.

Therefore the AADT reaching Doughiska will be quite high. That junction should really be a free-flow one instead of a roundabout with two slips.

A trumpet junction would have been so ideal.

It's a really botched junction. The lanes on the rounabout are too narrow - I actually think they have removed the broken line which made the RAB two lanes, it's possibly only single lane now. Can anyone confirm?

The left turning slips are a bit too tight, you can't really take them at anymore than 60kmh which means unnecessary deceleration and re-acceleration. The slip lanes start too close to the roundabout: if there is any sort of a queue for the roundabout then people who want to use the "free-flow" slip lane will have to queue with all the people trying to get onto the roundabout until they get to the start of the slip lane.

I think the reason it's so botched is because it was never supposed to be part of the Galway-Ballinasloe PPP. The PPP ends where the Galway Bypass is supposed to start, the Galway Bypass was supposed to have been built at the same time, or before, the M6 G-B. There would have been no Doughiska RAB if the Galway Bypass was done. Doughiska only came about when they realised the Bypass wouldn't be ready for a long time and J19 would have been an unsuitable location to terminate the M6.

churchview wrote: »

When (or is it if!), the bypass is built, will it still connect to the N/M6 via the roundabout or is it intended to build a free-flow junction? Sorry if this has been answered before.

Only in Galway could you get a roundabout cunningly located at the end of a dual carriageway and motorway!

I think the M6/Bypass junction will be free-flow like the M4/M6 interchange at Kinnegead, although I am open to correction. There are good diagrams of it floating around somewhere...

BluntGuy

I really want to know how they came to the conclusion that a horrible 3-level roundabout stack with a proven record of failure would be better than the free-flow options? Especially when they have plenty of space to develop a proper junction. Like the WRC switch-over at Athenry, the junction is needlessly messy, convoluted and presents no long-term benefits.

KevR

I honestly think that they sometimes just don't want to use their imagination when it comes to junction design/planning. Stick a roundabout in and hope for the best. There's no desire to be innovative it seems.

Cool Mo D

BluntGuy wrote: »

I really want to know how they came to the conclusion that a horrible 3-level roundabout stack with a proven record of failure would be better than the free-flow options? Especially when they have plenty of space to develop a proper junction. Like the WRC switch-over at Athenry, the junction is needlessly messy, convoluted and presents no long-term benefits.

Isn't this going to be Ireland's first stacked roundabout?

BluntGuy

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Isn't this going to be Ireland's first stacked roundabout?

It is, but our British cousins have been experiencing those diabolical creations for years and they almost never work even close to efficiently. And contrary to what the NRA might believe, they are a MESS to try and upgrade.

They say that traffic signals can be added to the junction in the future. What does that give you? A three-level Dunkettle. FUN thought I'm sure you'll all agree.

KevR

KevR wrote: »

The nearest permanent traffic counter to Galway City is on the M6 at Junction 19, on the mainline between the off-ramp and on-ramp. Therefore, no traffic leaving or entering at J19 is counted; unless there are counters on the slips which I have missed (doubtful!).

Embarassing but I did in fact miss the traffic counters on the ramps. Went over one on the Westbound on-ramp at J19 earlier today. I assume there are counters on all-ramps at all junctions in addition to the counters on the mainline between the off and on-ramps at each junction.

Will be interesting to see figures for traffic going to/from J19 and Doughiska.

Chris_5339762

KevR wrote: »

I think the M6/Bypass junction will be free-flow like the M4/M6 interchange at Kinnegead, although I am open to correction. There are good diagrams of it floating around somewhere...

Yup, this is whats planned -

Sponge Bob

I know that was what was planned Chris but now they gotta dig up a mile of it because THIS is what was built

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Yup, this is whats planned -

Chris_5339762

Yup. But around that area there is a LOT of extra land taken so it shouldnt be too disruptive (if it ever happens )

At least the M6 Ballinasloe - Galway scheme has been properly futureproofed - wide median, extra land take for the bypass and crazy wide hard shoulders for the slip roads for the M17/18/6 junction.

Edit: and thats actually the revised plan, the original called for a dumbell junction of sorts, which was daft.

Sponge Bob

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Yup. But around that area there is a LOT of extra land taken so it shouldnt be too disruptive (if it ever happens )

So why did they not run the eastbound lane of the current N/M6 along its proposed alignment after the GCOB is built and why is there no merge from GCOB east toward Doughiska either

They will have to dig the entire eastbound lane from Doughiska up for around half a mile ( at a location sw and s of the airport) and much of it for another half a mile at the merges.

Planks

dubhthach

Sponge Bob wrote: »

So why did they not run the eastbound lane of the current N/M6 along its proposed alignment after the GCOB is built and why is there no merge from GCOB east toward Doughiska either

Same reason they ended the road in a round-about at Doughiska or have designed the junction of the M6/M17/M18 as they have because it involves them having to do the least amount of thinking when it came to designing the road. It's fairly endemic in this country after all they removed the grade separated junctions from the M50 original design because it would save £25million. Sure why design/build a road thinking in the long term when you can appear to save money in the short term.

Sponge Bob

Shame their website is so inconsistent. That junction is a GSJ but you could go around the city from Doughiska without having to do a U turn at J19

http://www.galway.ie/en/Services/RoadsTransportation/RoadProjects/n6_outer/intermap.htm

Chris_5339762

Yeah whats on their website is definately the old version (stupid roundabout pile). Latest pcitures (taken from an M17/18 tender document that lumped in some ground investigations along the bypass route) is what will be built.

And you can still go around the city from the Doughiska end in the new design, the movement that is missing is Knocknacarra - Doughiska. But in any case, Glennascaul J19 is perfectly good for that. The new plan is much better.

Sponge Bob

The lack of a Bypass Eastbound towards Doughiska facility is rather stupid to my mind

Furthermore the EIS was carried out on the GSJ variant , the klutzes are leaving themselves open to a Sweetman challenge by removing that movement.

Chris_5339762

Looks to me like landtake is the same though, but I'm sure Sweetman will find a way to whinge and complain about it.

I reckon we should start up a group for Galway People Who Want The Bypass, then meet on a Saturday with shovels and start building it.

BluntGuy

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The lack of a Bypass Eastbound towards Doughiska facility is rather stupid to my mind

I think we must have some kind of psychological fear of building proper trumpet interchanges between motorways/DCs because we just can't do it. This is CLOSEST I've seen to one, and that's only because it lazily includes the N6 outbound to bypass westbound movement.

antoobrien

BluntGuy wrote: »

I think we must have some kind of psychological fear of building proper trumpet interchanges between motorways/DCs because we just can't do it.

Might have something to do with the designer having read this page. In summary:

• Disorienting to navigate for those driving in the direction that uses the loop.
  
• Expensive to build in places with high land values, and leaves a redundant patch of land within the loop.
  
• Scaling down the interchange often results in a more dangerous interchange - the M6 at Stoke frequently suffers congestion from articulated lorries that have tipped over.

Lorries tipping over is a pretty good reason not to build this type of interchange, especially given the driving habits in this country (no that is not a comment on the driving skills of lorry/truck drivers, but all road users)

spacetweek

Sorry guys, you lost me there.

Have they revised the design from dumbells to freeflower, or vice versa?

Sponge Bob

maps/schematics back a page.

Chris_5339762

The current is the freeflower, old version is the roundabout pile.

Carawaystick

BluntGuy wrote: »

I think we must have some kind of psychological fear of building proper trumpet interchanges between motorways/DCs because we just can't do it. This is CLOSEST I've seen to one, and that's only because it lazily includes the N6 outbound to bypass westbound movement.

The N25/N28 is a DC-DC freeflowing interchange
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=51.880001,-8.420012&spn=0.003682,0.008819&t=h&z=17

Chris_5339762

Funny isnt it, especially when that descends into S2 about a mile down the road along the N28 I was always amazed that got a trumpet.

M2 has one http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=53.488467,-6.383593&spn=0.008975,0.027874&z=16

Sponge Bob

No excuse not to have one in Galway, this is the main exit for the City whether eastbound off the bypass or westbound from Athenry or Dublin.