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M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

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  • Heres some more tripe curtosy of the Advertiser and their readership
    Dear Editor,

    When I read that the by-pass of Galway was a thing of the past I was happy! Somebody had the backbone to make an unpopular decision and hopefully will stick with it. It's not that I wouldn't like the cars to be off the road through the city. Just the opposite.

    I'm a cyclist and the way some people are driving here is downright dangerous for a cyclist. I've been cycling all my life in all parts of the world, but it's definitely the worst here as I've been hit twice this year alone! And that despite wearing a high visibility vest and all kinds of gimmicks. Cycle paths and a bit more concentration on the part of the car drivers in this city would be great, thank you. But that's a by line.

    About the by-pass. The rejection to build it is not a sign of being backwards but a sign of being sensible and smart. More roads attract more traffic as every study shows. To want to build more roads is actually very backward thinking, a kind of thinking that has dominated the 70s and 80s and I thought we got past that in the meantime. So whoever decided the end for the by-pass did his/her homework. Well done!

    That the by-pass is not coming is a real chance to do something different. That money can and should be used for the light rail or a light tram. Last January I was in Montpellier, France. It is another university city and they have two tram lines. One from north to south, the other from west to east.

    Why can't that be done here in Galway? It wouldn't cost that much more than building a road through areas where no roads should be built anyway because of the soft underground which leads to a bumpy road in no time and more money wasted for repairs.

    A light tram line from Oughterard to Oranmore and one from Spiddal or Barna to Briar Hill with a few stops in the centre of the city so people can change trams would take A LOT of traffic off the roads. The trams can run every 10 minutes during rush hour and everybody would be happy.

    It could be done and it does work if somebody has the guts to finally get on with it. It takes initiative and good will on the side of everybody but it's a chance to show the rest of the country that Galway can be different and progressive. Galway is a great place to live and work, now let it become a place to be proud of when it comes to public transportation.

    Yours,

    M Hablützel,

    Galway.

    http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/6362

    Thats just about the most ill informed pile of gunk I've ever seen.




  • I'm sorry, but I just had to laugh...
    It's not that I wouldn't like the cars to be off the road through the city. Just the opposite.

    Please explain what this means.
    I'm a cyclist

    Speaks volumes before we've even begun.
    About the by-pass. The rejection to build it is not a sign of being backwards but a sign of being sensible and smart. More roads attract more traffic as every study shows. To want to build more roads is actually very backward thinking, a kind of thinking that has dominated the 70s and 80s and I thought we got past that in the meantime. So whoever decided the end for the by-pass did his/her homework. Well done!

    I'm speechless honestly. More roads attract more traffic? What on Earth is this person talking about? Which studies are these? It isn't a case of building more roads, it's a case of replacing old roads which are virtually unusable for the amount of traffic they have.

    And by the way, as "every study shows", more roads do not cause traffic to magically appear out of thin-air. NEW ROADS DISPLACE TRAFFIC FROM ONE PLACE TO ANOTHER. There is generally no real net increase in traffic, and even if there is, the increase in traffic will be on the bypass so it won't affect the city streets.
    Why can't that be done here in Galway? It wouldn't cost that much more than building a road through areas where no roads should be built anyway because of the soft underground which leads to a bumpy road in no time and more money wasted for repairs.

    A light tram line from Oughterard to Oranmore and one from Spiddal or Barna to Briar Hill with a few stops in the centre of the city so people can change trams would take A LOT of traffic off the roads. The trams can run every 10 minutes during rush hour and everybody would be happy.

    Oh please, nothing but hopeless optimism and unsubstantiated claims (rather like the government's plan for a "Smart Economy"). This sounds like somebody who swallowed the 200 million crap that's been floating around.

    If the person stopped for one second to think about it logically then he/she wouldn't have been so quick to jump to a conclusion.

    NOW THEN... this great tram line, where is going to be? The city streets of course. The city streets which are clogged with traffic. The city streets which are clogged with traffic that is going to destinations not served by the tram. I.E A bunch of people who aren't going to be using the new tram system. I have no doubt that a significant chunk of Galway city traffic would be removed by the tram system. But the city will still be clogged up, a situation only made worse by the lack of available road space due to the tram lines.

    So, which plan makes sense? This guy goes on as if the tram line can be an instant reality. Fallacy of course. It'll take at least another 3 years to carry out constraints studys, draw up the EIS, work out the exact costs, what land will have to be CPO'd, hold public consultations. The bypass however could've been a reality, maybe not next year, maybe not even 2010, but a hell of a lot sooner than a tramline option.
    When I read that the by-pass of Galway was a thing of the past I was happy! Somebody had the backbone to make an unpopular decision and hopefully will stick with it.

    Yes, it must feel fantastic knowing that a critical piece of infrastructure is now going to be thrown in the bin...




  • Bluntguy, your a blunt guy :D




  • dubhthach wrote: »
    I use to work up beside HP 2years ago and use to take me 40minutes to get from there to Salthill in the evening my auld lad who works in Lisbaun reckons it takes an hour these days to get home in the evening.

    I live in Westside and work in Ballybrit (usually start work at 6 in the evenings). I usually leave at 4:55pm and get to work at about 5:25pm (about 30 min journey). If I leave a 5:05pm it will easily take 45 mins and i'll be sitting in the car sweating on making it to work for 6 o clock (because of all the extra cars coming onto the roads when most people finish work at 5pm).

    ^ I don't even think it's a 5 mile journey so my average speed is less than 10mph. Crazy really on road with 2 lanes in each direction the whole way across - it's all the at-grade roundabouts that cause the problems.

    RE: The letter in the Advertiser
    I think BluntGuy covered everything really well. I just want to add that I often cycle for Galway and have never been hit by a car in all my years doing so. I don't know what that says about this letter writer when he/she has been hit twice in the past year alone. :rolleyes:




  • BluntGuy wrote: »
    I'm speechless honestly. More roads attract more traffic? What on Earth is this person talking about? Which studies are these? It isn't a case of building more roads, it's a case of replacing old roads which are virtually unusable for the amount of traffic they have.
    I have no bones over the Galway scheme, but new/improved roads DO create more traffic. Google "transport induced demand" for details of various studies. The M50 and Dublin's sprawling commuter belt are prime examples.
    The M50 and radial route improvements will only have short term benefits, though the economic downturn will also help :)


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  • steve-o wrote: »
    I have no bones over the Galway scheme, but new/improved roads DO create more traffic. Google "transport induced demand" for details of various studies. The M50 and Dublin's sprawling commuter belt are prime examples.
    The M50 and radial route improvements will only have short term benefits, though the economic downturn will also help :)

    Very true. The growth in population of places like Athlone/Mullingar has been largely due to the increased quality of life that their bypasses brings. This does add to traffic as the town stretches out towards Suburban areas. Urban sprawl is, i think the term for it

    Dublin is an in-demand sardines can. If you can squeeze more traffic into it, then more people will try to squash in. I never understand why big cities are so popular to live/work in when there are alternatives available.




  • Even if the bypass does increase traffic in the area it will still reduce congestion and overall emissions/pollution in the city and inprove the quality of life for people living here. Not to mention it will make Galway a more attractive city to invest in.

    ^I think all this greatly outweighs any potential increases in traffic numbers.




  • steve-o wrote: »
    I have no bones over the Galway scheme, but new/improved roads DO create more traffic. Google "transport induced demand" for details of various studies. The M50 and Dublin's sprawling commuter belt are prime examples.
    The M50 and radial route improvements will only have short term benefits, though the economic downturn will also help :)

    The real problem with Dublin is that the M50 was designed as a bypass however due to corruption in the planning process you got huge amount of urban sprawl built around. Ideally the whole area around it should have been green belt.

    As a result of course it's basically an "inner relief road" due to all the development that was allowed in last 15years outside it.




  • steve-o wrote: »
    I have no bones over the Galway scheme, but new/improved roads DO create more traffic. Google "transport induced demand" for details of various studies. The M50 and Dublin's sprawling commuter belt are prime examples.

    The M50 isn't really the best example because in the period it was built car-ownership rocketed which was the prime factor leading to an increase in traffic. The M50 was simply a dumping ground for all this traffic.

    New roads DO, I'll acknowledge, encourage people to drive more. But they also get people from A to B, quicker, thus causing a net reduction in traffic in the area (because traffic can get quicker to its destination, it spends less time on the road). Very simple logic.

    So while overall traffic may increase, traffic in individual bottlenecks such as this decreases because of the quicker mobility (i.e traffic is more evenly spread out because people spend less time in specific bottlenecks). Perhaps a better way to put this is to say that traffic-flows improve.
    Dublin is an in-demand sardines can. If you can squeeze more traffic into it, then more people will try to squash in. I never understand why big cities are so popular to live/work in when there are alternatives available.

    Dublin should therefore have the facilities to deal with its high density. High density is a great oppurtunity to justify new and innovative transport solutions...

    That does not include you: "Metro" West... ;)
    Bluntguy, your a blunt guy biggrin.gif

    Thanks. :D




  • Yeah originally it was supposed to be D2AP with roundabouts. Its gotten scaled back to S2 with Buslanes in a sense, with some of the roundabouts scrapped in favour of traffic lights.
    Translation: No realistic increase in capacity. Stunning lack of planning given how much of an arterial route that road is.
    What? Increasing from S2 to S2+Buslanes is a huge increase in capacity. You measure a road by how many people it carries, not vehicles. The possibility for a greatly expanded bus service along the route will increase its people carrying capacity hugely.
    BluntGuy wrote: »
    New roads DO, I'll acknowledge, encourage people to drive more. But they also get people from A to B, quicker, thus causing a net reduction in traffic in the area (because traffic can get quicker to its destination, it spends less time on the road). Very simple logic.
    Not as simple as this.

    Although the new road allows people to make their journey faster (removes bottlenecks), the problem is that people are more likely to make more trips than before - i.e. car use has gone up - so there is a net increase in total traffic. When the M50 upgrade is complete in Dublin, there will be a net increase in traffic there too due to the attractiveness of the expanded road (promise of reduced journey time - people who used not drive will now be encouraged to do so).


    As for the Galway bypass, in a way the scaling back can be seen as a good thing. Galway should not be expanding westwards. There's no infrastructure there and the bulk of the city's services are at the far end (motorways, airport, railway). Building the N59-Barna section would simply encourage more car-dependent development in that whole area.

    A clipped bypass running from the motorways in the east as far as the N59 will encourage all future development to be located to the east of Galway, in the vicinity of the airport and new Oranmore train station. More stations could be opened along the rail line here in the future.

    As for existing development in the west, that quite simply should never have been allowed.


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  • spacetweek wrote: »
    What? Increasing from S2 to S2+Buslanes is a huge increase in capacity. You measure a road by how many people it carries, not vehicles. The possibility for a greatly expanded bus service along the route will increase its people carrying capacity hugely.

    In other countries yes. But this is Ireland, where the Bus Eireann buses travel along this road, loop the roundabout at the end and come back again, completely ignoring the 1000s of new houses. You also get City Direct Buses in Galway who run an HOURLY service WITH A LUNCH BREAK on one of their routes. (And yes, they use the words LUNCH BREAK on their timetables).

    Yes, it will be MUCH better for buses etc and will do wonders for bus times. Unfortunately we will NOT, I guarantee, see any more services or any general improvement in services. I do worry that the bus stop poles on this road at the moment will be replaced by more bus stop poles. Lets not forget that one of the bus stops on this route has a timetable that is two years out of date.




  • Heres some more tripe curtosy of the Advertiser and their readership



    http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/6362

    Thats just about the most ill informed pile of gunk I've ever seen.

    The next person that says no roads, I'm not joking you... :mad:

    Out with the 1990's where road building was seen as mortal sin!

    Out with the 1970's where road building was the only way to do things!

    Let's have rational and balanced transport policies maybe like Germany etc where extensive road and rapid transit systems are provided, and where the environment is top of the agenda. Yes, it can be done, but we have to make stark choices like ending priority for property in planning circles. If houses (many of which are unsustainable anyway) have to be knocked to make way to road (like infill widening schemes) or rapid transit projects (like the LUAS Green Line), then so be it. Maybe we shouldn't be building metros, but rather high quality LUAS lines that work, like the Green Line - anytime I'm on same, it seems to be well used all day - now that's sustainability! - well work sacrificing houses etc for! The advantage of LUAS over Metro is it's immediate accesibility and user friendliness!

    Regards!




  • The next person that says no roads, I'm not joking you... :mad:

    Out with the 1990's where road building was seen as mortal sin!

    Out with the 1970's where road building was the only way to do things!

    Let's have rational and balanced transport policies maybe like Germany etc where extensive road and rapid transit systems are provided, and where the environment is top of the agenda. Yes, it can be done, but we have to make stark choices like ending priority for property in planning circles. If houses (many of which are unsustainable anyway) have to be knocked to make way to road (like infill widening schemes) or rapid transit projects (like the LUAS Green Line), then so be it. Maybe we shouldn't be building metros, but rather high quality LUAS lines that work, like the Green Line - anytime I'm on same, it seems to be well used all day - now that's sustainability! - well work sacrificing houses etc for! The advantage of LUAS over Metro is it's immediate accesibility and user friendliness!

    Regards!

    I get what you're saying and I agree with your point about the Luas, sort of...

    The problem with Luas, is even though it's accessible and user-friendly, it's only really suited to relatively short-distances and medium-density areas of the city. It would take too long to go from one side of Dublin to the other on a Luas (much quicker than car, mind you, but not quick enough for a rapid transit system). That is why projects like Metro North and Interconnector are needed. High capacity, high-speed transit links that get you from one major area to the next, with a network of buses and Luas lines to take you to your specific destination.

    THAT is the way it should be done.

    What do we have instead? A bus service where timetables may as well be used as toilet paper for the next dog who fouls the street, two Luas lines that don't connect together (they are not within walking distance for everyone) and quite a poor DART service.

    Even if just one of MN or Interconnector went ahead (I'd recommend Interconnector), it would make a huge difference. Both are needed, yes. But at least one should be constructed within the planned timeframe.

    I'd also recommend electrifying all commuter railines in the medium-term. This will expand our options for more carbon-friendly rail solutions in the future. Electric trains also have numerous other advantages I'm sure you're all aware of, that would enable a better service (and hence entice people to use services) in Cork, Galway and Limerick.

    As for GLuas. Not happening before 2020, people shouldn't have unrealistic hopes. The bypass, in this particular case, is the much more practical solution at this point in time.




  • BluntGuy wrote: »
    I get what you're saying and I agree with your point about the Luas, sort of...

    The problem with Luas, is even though it's accessible and user-friendly, it's only really suited to relatively short-distances and medium-density areas of the city. It would take too long to go from one side of Dublin to the other on a Luas (much quicker than car, mind you, but not quick enough for a rapid transit system). That is why projects like Metro North and Interconnector are needed. High capacity, high-speed transit links that get you from one major area to the next, with a network of buses and Luas lines to take you to your specific destination.

    THAT is the way it should be done.

    What do we have instead? A bus service where timetables may as well be used as toilet paper for the next dog who fouls the street, two Luas lines that don't connect together (they are not within walking distance for everyone) and quite a poor DART service.

    Even if just one of MN or Interconnector went ahead (I'd recommend Interconnector), it would make a huge difference. Both are needed, yes. But at least one should be constructed within the planned timeframe.

    I'd also recommend electrifying all commuter railines in the medium-term. This will expand our options for more carbon-friendly rail solutions in the future. Electric trains also have numerous other advantages I'm sure you're all aware of, that would enable a better service (and hence entice people to use services) in Cork, Galway and Limerick.

    As for GLuas. Not happening before 2020, people shouldn't have unrealistic hopes. The bypass, in this particular case, is the much more practical solution at this point in time.

    ...yeah, I see your point, but wouldn't the DART suffice for long distance commuting, especially if the inter-connector is built and the Dart extended to Balbriggan, Maynooth and Celbridge. Feeder bus and LRT/BRT links would greatly expand the catchment area. Mind you, the metro shouldn't be ruled out, but in the interim...

    Regards, and Happy Christmas!!!




  • Another letter in the Advertiser ->

    http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/6737
    Dear Editor,

    In response to several recent letters in these columns.The Galway City Outer Bypass has been a hot topic around the city for several years now but when I heard that the road had been rejected by An Bord Pleanala my heart sank. This critical piece of infrastructure that would finally relieve Galway of a good chunk of its traffic issues has been scaled back to a useless 'half bypass' that will drop all its traffic onto one of the city's worst black spots.

    No-one will argue that Galway has a traffic problem, but everyone has different opinions about what to do about it. It is clear that Galway, as a city, cannot prosper without solving, or at least alleviating, its congestion issues. People need to work together and a plethora of short sighted bad decisions need to be investigated. A sensible transport plan must be instigated.

    Case in Point: The N6/M6 from Dublin will terminate at a roundabout near the Galway Clinic. If the M18 (to Limerick) and M17 (to Tuam) ever get built, you will get traffic from all three destinations crashing to a halt at this roundabout. Traffic madness will result. Lets also not mention the insane routing of the M18 and especially the M17 - it WILL NOT solve the Claregalway issue. However, even Claregalway will pale in comparison to the chaos at the UCHG roundabout and Bishop O' Donnell Road if the 'half-bypass' gets built. Bishop O'Donnell road is massively over capacity. The root cause of this is twofold - lack of decent public transport and the fact that up to 35,000 cars a day travel down a road that effectively serves almost every housing estate west of the Corrib. This was caused by bad city planning, not magic, and the idle exhaust spewed out by waiting cars is more environmentally damaging than the Outer Bypass would be. Cars are at their most polluting when idle, not when travelling freely.

    What people need to realise is that roads need to be part of an overall transport strategy, not the easy target to be axed in place of ill conceived public transport plans. People like their cars and will continue to drive them, but do you think everyone actually wants to be stuck at the Terryland roundabout in the evenings? No. I'm sure a lot of those motorists would take public transport if it was a reasonable option. The reasons the buses are underutilised in this city are numerous but can be easily solved. Case in point: Poles in the ground are not good enough in the Galway rain. Bus stops with two-year-out-of-date, incorrect timetables are not even remotely acceptable (Dunaras stop on the 5W service). Waiting 30 minutes for a bus with no idea if/when it will arrive is shameful.

    In any case, GLUAS isn't the so-called magic solution that many respectable people think it is. It is a gigantic white elephant that must be stopped before a lot of money is wasted. Knocknacarra in particular is extremely low density due to atrocious free-for-all sprawl planning during the Boom, hence the reason that City Direct buses zigzag through all the estates in a long, painful, drawn out route-march.

    It just isn’t suitable for a tram line, as the line is too far from sprawled houses. So let's protect the alignment but consign the GLUAS to the shelves for the foreseeable future. The biggest problem with GLUAS is that it's being pedalled as a cure-all solution when there hasn't been the slightest whisper of a joined up, forward thinking integrated transport plan for the whole of Galway. Everyone is ploughing ahead with their own agendas doing their own thing (or lack thereof) and no one is considering how anything might fit together to make it easy for the commuter. Case in point: GLUAS is proposed to be on the other side of Eyre Square to the bus station, resulting in an unnecessary walk in the rain. It should go right outside the bus station, not 300m away. There is also no tourist-friendly proposal for a line in Salthill or to the airport. Let’s also not mention that Bus Eireann has no routes to serve a large chunk of Knocknacarra and that there are only TWO buses per day to Galway Airport.

    Here's what should happen in Galway. Firstly, the FULL Outer Bypass should be built and Bishop O' Donnell Road upgraded to dual carriageway. Bus Eireann should not be in control of city services, that should be given to Galway Bus, in the same vein as Dublin Bus. Massive increases in bus frequencies around the city should be next, with installation of more bus lanes where appropriate and the building of bus shelters at every bus-stop city wide with constantly updated, GPS backed, mapping of bus locations and 'NEXT BUS DUE IN xxxx MINUTES' monitors.

    Dual track the railway to Athenry, with a new station at Oranmore and a commuter service to the former with P&R facilities at each. Build fully segregated bus P&Rs at strategic locations around the periphery of the city (and bypass) with 10 minute frequency travelling down dedicated, monitored bus lanes to a variety of city stops. Make Eyre Square, Eglinton Street and St Francis Street bus and taxi only zones to stop the current bus vs car-parking battles and properly redevelop the bus and railway stations.

    Have peak time suburban shuttle bus services to satellite towns like Moycullen, Tuam and Spiddal. And either integrate the Coach Station and Bus Eireann stations or build a guided, covered walkway, between them. Why do we need the two anyway, it wouldn't happen elsewhere in Europe. In any case, the key is making buses ATTRACTIVE to commuters, not the half baked services that we currently have.

    Most of this could be done for a fraction of the cost of the GLUAS, and will be massively more beneficial. What is needed more than anything though, is joined up thinking and integration of services, not the random, unplanned, nonsense that pervades transport and construction policy in this city (and indeed the whole of Ireland) at the moment.

    However, NONE OF THIS should be done without adequate roads infrastructure and the Outer Bypass should be the first step in this. Roads aren't the overall solution, but are a key part of the overall picture. Ireland is still playing catch-up in the roads department and let's not mention that the Government originally told us the interurban motorways to Dublin would be finished in 2006. At this stage, the blackspots of Galway, Claregalway, New Ross, Adare, Abbeyleix, Limerick, Gort, Dunkettle and the Cork SRR SHOULD BE SOLVED. We've had an unprecedented economic boom and still no two major cities in Ireland are connected by a motorway. We still have at least a year to wait and now the boom is over.

    Galway city should be a tourist mecca and the gateway to thewWest of Ireland. It's an embarrassment at the moment because it's so difficult to get through. By the looks of it, a trip to Cork on a future M18, Limerick Tunnel and M20 will take just over two hours. A trip from Dublin will take two hours. The last five miles to get across Galway will take a further hour.

    Galway is at a crossroads. Do we languish in traffic chaos or do we actually do something about it.? Building the FULL bypass should be the first step in kick-starting Galway's development again. But let's not forget the depressing fact that if a developer were to propose a large housing estate in the Thonabrucky Bog, the main site of N6 environmental objections by An Bord Pleanala, I bet that local councillors and An Taisce would make a lot less noise than they did about the bypass.

    Yours,

    Wall of text but worth reading.




  • A very good letter, shows a clear understanding of what's going on, addressing all the issues, referring to roads as M showing that they know what's happening with regard to motorway redesignations, offers some practical solutions and finally tells people what a silly idea GLUAS is, at least in the short to medium term.

    There's no point building a bypass that doesn't bypass anything...




  • Wall of text but worth reading.

    Read that the other day in the paper.

    A very good read!




  • But let's not forget the depressing fact that if a developer were to propose a large housing estate in the Thonabrucky Bog, the main site of N6 environmental objections by An Bord Pleanala, I bet that local councillors and An Taisce would make a lot less noise than they did about the bypass.

    Ah but sure, we all love idenkit cardboard houses without a single shop for miles...

    Much more useful to people than a good quality road... :mad:




  • Heres an article in the Galway Independent. Some of it is completely true, but other parts are silly. There is no way the tenders for a Gort to Tuam PPP are going to be issued within a couple of weeks. Thats bull of the highest order.
    The construction of first phase of the long-awaited Galway City Outer Bypass will cause traffic mayhem in the city unless significant measures are introduced. That's according to Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs Eamon O Cuiv, who told the Galway Independent this week that areas such as Barna and Moycullen would be used as rat-runs and "clogged up with traffic" when the motorway opens in a few years time.

    Construction on the multi-million euro development is set to begin in 2010 but only a segment will go-ahead as the stretch between Gortacleva and An Baile Nua was refused planning on ecological grounds by An Bord Pleanala last December.

    The new road will now stop in the Bushy Park area and will pose huge problems as motorists use villages such as Barna and Moycullen to avoid traffic blackspots, according to Mr O Cuiv.

    "This part of the bypass will change the traffic configuration patterns in the city dramatically and will cause huge issues unless action is taken now."

    "We need to upgrade these roads and proposed relief roads in the Barna and Moycullen areas will have to go ahead. It will be 2012-2014 before this route is completed so time is on our side, but we have to sit down and look at the consequences of this planning decision," he said.

    There was widespread shock and outrage when planning for the second section of the bypass was turned down on the grounds that it would have a "significantly adverse effect" on Thonabrucky Bog, which is listed as a priority habitat under the EU Habitats Directive.

    However, Minister O Cuiv believes the motorway can still go ahead in its entirety and said that putting forward a new proposal combining the rejected stretch of road with a proposed highway between Barna and Rossaveal would be the most "sensible option".

    "When An Bord Pleanala refused the second half of the bypass, they clearly indicated that it could go ahead if we looked at alternatives. There would be similar ecological issues with the Barna to Rossaveal road so I think the best option would be to combine the two in a new proposal."

    "There has been a lot of talk about funding not being available for these roads but in the current downturn, you can get very good value for money."

    "There have been estimates coming in for a number of projects and they are very competitive. You can get more for less and this is the upside of the downside."

    "I would expect tenders for the Gort to Tuam road to be sought in the next couple of weeks and that will go ahead under Public Private Partnership. There will be a lot of capital investment in infrastructure over the next number of years."

    Minister O Cuiv said he and several other local TDs would be meeting with both the city and county councils this week to discuss the impact of the GCOB planning decision.

    http://www.galwayindependent.com/local-news/local-news/bypass-construction-could-cause-mayhem-%11-o-cuiv/




  • I thought I'd just isolate this bit of text from the rest for all to see:
    "I would expect tenders for the Gort to Tuam road to be sought in the next couple of weeks and that will go ahead under Public Private Partnership. There will be a lot of capital investment in infrastructure over the next number of years."

    I really don't know what to say. Is this a blatant lie or just somebody not having a clue what they're talking about?


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  • Heres an article in the Galway Independent. Some of it is completely true, but other parts are silly. There is no way the tenders for a Gort to Tuam PPP are going to be issued within a couple of weeks. Thats bull of the highest order.

    I read that. Cloud-cuckoo-land in extremis. The only thing that could tag it back to reality is that, according to his reliable (;)) colleague Frank Fahy, the process starting the tender process should begin shortly and take 2 years to complete. I think that's what he's talking about. Of course, the fact that what he said obfuscates the facts (if they are facts), and makes it appear that it's going to happen sooner, is not surprising.




  • Another letter in the Advertiser ->
    http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/6737

    Wall of text but worth reading.

    Any coincidence that the writer of this letter signs himself Chris, as do you? ;)

    Anyway, all very good points.




  • emot-ssh.gif

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  • Niall O'Brolchain in the Advertiser again saying the bypass isn't really necessary. He proposes that we instead implement less costly solutions such as an Urban Traffic Control (UTC) System, improve cycle facilities and improve junctions (he specifically mentions the Headford Rd roundabout).

    For a start, bypass or no bypass, the Headford Rd RAB junction is being upgraded. It's not even a new suggestion or an idea from him.

    Also, as far as I know (but correct me if I'm wrong), the Urban Traffic Control System has been planned/around for a while. It will more than likely happen even if the bypass is built so why is he suggesting it as an alternative.

    It's all well and good improving cycle facilities but can he also improve the weather?? This is Galway and it rains 300 odd days in the year.

    Junction improvements and a UTC system on their own won't do much to solve Galway's traffic problems. They are needed in conjunction with an outer bypass.

    Also, how come he doesn't mention anything or even go so far as make suggestions about the proposed roundabout to terminate the M6 at Doughiska? This RAB is only supposed to be a temporary termination point until the bypass is built. Surely if he's campaigning against the bypass then top of his agenda should be a much improved junction for where the M6 will meet the existing N6 at Doughiska.
    Another politician, Noel Grealish, was quoted in the same issue of the Galway Advertiser as saying 65,000 cars every day use the N6 from Oranmore, the Coast Road from Oranmore and the R339 from Carnmore. The bulk of this traffic will switch to the the M6 with some still using the old N6 - all using 1 RAB at Doughiska. A small amount of traffic will still use the R339 and avoid the Doughiska RAB but will still end up in the very near vicinity of it. It's going to be chaos around this area and no amount of cycle lanes will fix it because this will all be long distance (commute wise) traffic.

    O'Brolchain is against the bypass but I don't hear him coming up with any good ideas for the Doughiska problem that will have to be solved if there is no bypass.




  • Heres an article in the Galway Independent. Some of it is completely true, but other parts are silly. There is no way the tenders for a Gort to Tuam PPP are going to be issued within a couple of weeks. Thats bull of the highest order.



    http://www.galwayindependent.com/local-news/local-news/bypass-construction-could-cause-mayhem-%11-o-cuiv/

    Maybe we jumped the gun on this a little?? Weeks is crap, but they are thinking Galway to Tuam ppp.

    Post from Sabre -
    Kieran4003 wrote:
    Sent an email to the Nra about a couple things.

    Fistly I asked about PPP Schemes. What I find interesting the way one is refered to N17/18. I wonder are they going to toll the Gort - Oranmore road now as well. Just a thought...
    "While the final Second Roads PPP Programme is not yet fully finalised, it is likely to comprise four PPP schemes, 2 on the N20, one on the N17/N18 and one on the N11/N25. The exact details will be finalised in 2009"

    Also I asked about what they will do from 2010 onwards and intrestingly they say a prioritisation study will be undertaken this year. I wonder what would they consider the main priority...
    You also seek information in regards to other road schemes to be constructed during the period 2010 to 2015. As you will be aware the primary focus up to 2010 is on the completion of the motorway network linking Dublin to Galway, Limerick, Cork, Waterford and Northern Ireland. The schemes to be progressed in the subsequent period will be determined through a prioritisation focus which will be substantially undertaken in 2009.

    Finally no news about the N25 Midleton - Youghal scheme for those of you thats interested...
    In respect to the N25 Middleton to Youghal scheme, this project is at the early stages of developments, effectively what is described as the "Constraints Study" stage. I do not anticipate the Route Selection being finalised for some time.

    Edit:
    N17/N18 = Gort - Athenry of M18 and Athenry to Tuam of M17
    M20 schemes = Cork - Limerick
    N25/N11 = I'm guessing New Ross bypass and Enniscorthy bypass lumped into one scheme? I've heard this mentioned on here.




  • N17/N18 = Gort - Athenry of M18 and Athenry to Tuam of M17
    M20 schemes = Cork - Limerick
    N25/N11 = I'm guessing New Ross bypass and Enniscorthy bypass lumped into one scheme? I've heard this mentioned on here.
    Yea, noticed that about N25/N11 being lumped together. But New Ross and Enniscorthy are some distance apart; are they talking about one long route starting west of New Ross and running all the way to Enniscorthy or is it just the two disconnected bypasses, but built by the same contractor?




  • Dunno. I think the plan is to link them.

    Also a pile of idiots in Galway are already taking legal action against the thought of any of the Galway bypass being revisited.




  • Also a pile of idiots in Galway are already taking legal action against the thought of any of the Galway bypass being revisited.

    I hope the judge throws the case straight out. It's a joke that the vast majority of people in Galway are in favour of the bypass but a small handfull of people who are against it are allowed to hold the whole thing up.

    If these people are so against the idea then why don't they leave Galway in protest?!





  • Also a pile of idiots in Galway are already taking legal action against the thought of any of the Galway bypass being revisited.

    I wonder will we be getting more of this anti-road activism in the years ahead. The M3 drew them all up to Meath like flies to shight. But now that they've lost that campaign they might set their sights on any number of other planned schemes.


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  • Thats what worries me. At least all the anti roads group have been fighting the M3 lately. What will they turn to next, the resurrection of the Outer Bypass, or will they go tooth and nail against the M20 as its the largest planned new route?


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