M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

Amtmann

Thanks indeed.

This is becoming very tiresome. I'm too busy to review the thread *at the moment* but I would remind everyone that the thread is not about whether the bypass should be built, or about developments other than the progress of the scheme towards completion.

I will not be reminding anyone of this again. Instead, I will simply restrict access to the forum to transgressors for a long, long time. Reported posts are a rarity in this forum, except, unfortunately, in this thread. That will soon stop, one way or another.

veryangryman

While things are moving slowly on this...

Any people care to give a good guesstimate of what the time savings will be going east-west in rush hour with this? I think the roundabouts on it will still be bottlenecks of sorts.

antoobrien

veryangryman wrote: »

While things are moving slowly on this...

Any people care to give a good guesstimate of what the time savings will be going east-west in rush hour with this? I think the roundabouts on it will still be bottlenecks of sorts.

The RABs have been replaced with GSJs on the instruction of ABP on the approved, so that won't be a big issue.

The last time I was in town on a Friday afternoon it took 40 minutes to come from Eyre Sq to Parkmore (on the bus, so we got some benefit from the outbound bus lane on the Dublin Rd).

The benefit will be removing cars, vans & lorrys from the Galway Triangle (I'm claiming copyright on this) of Moneenagesha to HRR (aka Bodkin RAB) to Ballinfoyle (Kirwin RAB) that don't need to be there. Edit - I've added this diagram to illustrate the point. 99% of the cross town traffic comes through one of the 4 junctions in this area (there are a couple of back roads that can be taken if you can find them)



There are approx 37,000 trips (18,000k two way trips) happening on QB daily in 2009 (see page 19 of this doc - health warning 18MB file). The other documents in there give about 60,000 trips coming from the Galway Metropolitan Smarter Travel Area (see page 5 of appendix 4-9)

In the 2006 census there were approx 9,500 two way journeys to work or school of 5-9km out of just over 50,000 recorded trips. I'd expect at least half these to use the Bypass. (meaning a reduction of up to 10k trips going through the Galway Triangle).

We need to also consider the effect of the current traffic layout. It comes to a standstill on entering Galway due to the crossing traffic streams. The effect of this will be reduced by traffic going to the Woodquay area using the Bypass to go to the Ballindooley junction etc.

I'd expect a minimum 15 minute improvement in journey times, as well as a narrowing of the difference between trip times (as has been seen on many routes where motorways/dc have replaced N Roads).

spacetweek

antoobrien wrote:

The RABs have been replaced with GSJs on the instruction of ABP on the approved, so that won't be a big issue.

Wasn't this always planned as a fully GS road?

antoobrien

spacetweek wrote: »

Wasn't this always planned as a fully GS road?

I don't think so - there's references in the ABP decisions to changing certain junctions to GSJs.

Taken from the report.

In deciding not to accept the Inspector’s recommendation to refuse approval for the entire road development, the Board did not agree that priority should be given to the main radial routes accessing the city and considered that the new outer by-pass road should have priority at all junctions with the exception of Junction M (Garraun) which should be redesigned to allow for free flow conditions. Furthermore, the Board considered that the grade separated junctions were necessary as proposed having regard to the strategic nature of the road and forecast future traffic growth. The Board agreed with the Inspector’s assessment of the environmental impacts of the proposed road development through both the Lough Corrib candidate SAC and the Moycullen Bogs NHA. However, the Board was not satisfied that an alternative route in the vicinity of Tonabrocky Bog was not available. In relation to concerns regarding the human environment and in particular at Ballindooly the Board noted the Inspector’s concerns but considered that no alternative route or configuration was available at this location and noted the detailed mitigation measures proposed and the additional proposals (as conditioned) to improve connectivity in the locality.

dubhthach

This is to do with Junction connecting Outerbypass to the M6, the roundabout was specific if you were driving from the Galway Clinic out on the stretch of the new N6, it wouldn't interconnect in grade seperated way. This has now been altered to be a junction like where M6 joins the M4 at Kinnegad.



Otherwise the Junctions on the N59 and N84 would be fully grade seperated. There are roundabouts on the western section which is designed to 2+2 standard. Motorway only runs as far as connection to Western Distributor Road which is a roundabout.

antoobrien

I got these from the EIS (2006)

The first shows the original proposed arrangements for the junctions on the approved portion of the road (N59 East)



The second is the routes that were considered on the western half (rejected, among other reason because of lack of alternatives considered for the route through Tonabrocky)

dubhthach

The last page of the report shows the size of the habitat areas as well as the area that contains the grass (I've put a black circle around it below)



The Red route completely avoids the bog, the light blue one skirts it and crosses it at a point but at a good distance from the section of the bog containing the "Slender cotton Grass"

antoobrien

dubhthach wrote: »

The last page of the report shows the size of the habitat areas as well as the area that contains the grass (I've put a black circle around it below)

The purple route (closest to the bog cotton) appears to be the selected route there correct?

munchkin_utd

antoobrien wrote: »

The first shows the original proposed arrangements for the junctions on the approved portion of the road (N59 East)

Is it still the case that on the east side theres only a junction planned on the Headford Road and then the merge to the M6 ?

Sure the by-pass wont do anything for anyone who wants to drive to the industrial areas on the Tuam road/ Mervue which you would presume is a lot of the traffic in the mornings and evening.

antoobrien

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Is it still the case that on the east side theres only a junction planned on the Headford Road and then the merge to the M6 ?

Yes that is the case.

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Sure the by-pass wont do anything for anyone who wants to drive to the industrial areas on the Tuam road/ Mervue which you would presume is a lot of the traffic in the mornings and evening.

I presume you're talking about cross town traffic to & from Knocknacara and environs. In fairness it will take this traffic away from the congested school & business areas. The HR traffic will still have access to BNT - which will then be able to act as the relief road that is was designed to be (though it was not envisaged that a bypass would be needed 30 years ago when they started planning it).

Ideally there would be a junction about half way between the Tuam Rd & planned Ballindooley exit with a link road to allow access to both roads. (they're too close to each other for proper exits), however the Roadstone quarry interferes with that idea (the proposed road swings around it).

I think the logic was that the Tuam road wouldn't be an N road for much longer and that a junction would keep traffic on the old road rather than the motorway.

Looking at the map a Tuam road / Parkmore junction would make sense

munchkin_utd

Deleted User wrote: »

I think the logic was that the Tuam road wouldn't be an N road for much longer and that a junction would keep traffic on the old road rather than the motorway.

Looking at the map a Tuam road / Parkmore junction would make sense

well, it depends on what the road is there for whether you need a Tuam road junction.

Is it to prove a mass transit route for peak morning and evening (car) commuters
OR is it to allow people of west galway city and Conemara reliable and speedy access to the rest of Ireland?

The way its designed its all the latter and not the former

Irish and Proud

dubhthach wrote: »

<snip>
The Red route completely avoids the bog, the light blue one skirts it and crosses it at a point but at a good distance from the section of the bog containing the "Slender cotton Grass"

I think the thick red line might be a representation of the city boundary. I think the purple route is the original while the blue route is an alternative alignment.

Regards!

antoobrien

Irish and Proud wrote: »

I think the thick red line might be a representation of the city boundary. I think the purple route is the original while the blue route is an alternative alignment.

Regards!

The first map I put up shows the city boundary in purple - this is to the south & east of the second map I've uploaded.

dubhthach

Irish and Proud wrote: »

I think the thick red line might be a representation of the city boundary. I think the purple route is the original while the blue route is an alternative alignment.

Regards!

Nope that's Route Option 3. Here's the "zoomed out" version of that map from the EIS report. As you can see redline clearly marked as a route option

Irish and Proud

The red route seems a no brainer to me - it's by far the shortest of the 3 options and it appears to avoid all eco-sensitive areas as well.

Sponge Bob

The red route would be a direct hit on a load of ranches in Bushypark where the purple route avoids them. Not a few ranches were built on the red route after the Purple Route was selected either.

It would wreck Bushypark with the junction just west of Keleghans and a dual carriageway section west of that past the Glenlo an the bad bends.

I reckon they will go through the purple junction with the N59 as planned and then send the road west of the purple alignment, across Oranswell, and then heading south just clipping the west of the Drum soccer complex. The Road to Knocknacarra will be inline straight ahead with that alignment and the R336 will then start on a roundabout above it where the Link Road to Knocknacarra was once supposed to start.

veryangryman

Borderline off topic but I could kill Leo varadakar. Don't care whether its his idea but he should have stopped the traffic light installation at doughiska. Complete madness replacing the roundabout until the bypass is ready. If so worried about pedestrians then build them a bridge for christs sake. We now have a mini newlands cross right by our beloved m6

dubhthach

veryangryman wrote: »

Borderline off topic but I could kill Leo varadakar. Don't care whether its his idea but he should have stopped the traffic light installation at doughiska. Complete madness replacing the roundabout until the bypass is ready. If so worried about pedestrians then build them a bridge for christs sake. We now have a mini newlands cross right by our beloved m6

Well wasn't there not a pedestrian underpass at this round a bout anyways? You can clearly see it on Bing maps
http://binged.it/rzA8TC

antoobrien

dubhthach wrote: »

Well wasn't there not a pedestrian underpass at this round a bout anyways? You can clearly see it on Bing maps
http://binged.it/rzA8TC

Yes the tunnel was put in when the RAB was originally built. The locals laughed and it's still rarely used (aside from race week when it's considered marginally safer than the rest of the year) - almost everybody I've seen over the Christmas prefer to use the traffic lights to cross on foot rather than use the tunnel to get across the DC.

I call the recent works at doughiska a complete success myself. the flow through that junction is more balanced at peak times now compared to before when the rab was there

anyway, back on topic *chants* "wheres our bypass leo, wheres our bypass leo!!"

Iwannahurl

I had a brief look at the new signalised junction at Briarhill, and it seemed to be working fine for motorists. That was mid-afternoon, though, so peak times may be different. Seemed OK for pedestrians too. Cycling through the junction may be a different kettle of fish though -- I'm reserving judgment on that.

As for chanting about a Bypass, I hope your lungs are good for a few years' non-stop use in that mode.

Not much point in chanting at Leo either, for a while anyway. These are the people you should be serenading first.

We heard today on the news that ESRI economist Richard Tol and his family are getting the hell out of Dodge. Tol believes the country is in for ten to fifteen years of austerity. The GCOB is priority infrastructure for this government, but how soon will they be able to afford it after the ECJ issues its ruling?

L1011

The ECJ is a non-issue despite what Shoutman screamed on this thread. Now that the Greens are gone I'm amazed the state hasn't withdrawn the case.

I'll take a look at the junction on Wednesday, I'm not expecting much improvement. Like Moneenageisha it may have a slight improvement after calibration. Traffic today, or any day since the 20th of December or so, is not a reliable indication of what it'll be like with normal work flows and schools back in.

Iwannahurl

MYOB wrote: »

The ECJ is a non-issue

TWO YEARS BEFORE DECISION ON CITY BY-PASS

"A decision on the Galway city bypass is at least two years away.

That's according to MEP Jim Higgins who recently received notification from the European court of Justice about the case.

The Supreme court has referred the matter to the European courts but there is still no date fixed yet for an oral hearing."

2 years

:eek:

antoobrien

Deleted User wrote: »

2 years

:eek:

Here's a full article from the sentinel (no link available), with a lot more detail. The two years estimate is based on a general backlog of 18 months for an oral haring, with a 6-8 week deliberation time frame before an announcement.

EUROPE is at least two years away from making a decision on whether or not the Galway City Outer Bypass can proceed, a Member of the
European Parliament has said.

MEP Jim Higgins said he has received an indication from the European Court of
Justice (ECJ) that a decision on plans to build the outer bypass in Galway will not be known for about two years.

An email received by Mr Higgins from Lynn Hewett, Principal Administrator at the ECJ Registry said: “There is as yet no date fixed for an oral hearing. After the oral hearing the report for the hearing will be available as from the day of the hearing and will normally be followed by an advocate general’s opinion (usually 6-8 weeks after the hearing) and will then go into deliberation prior to judgment being delivered.”

But Mr Higgins, who is a member of the European Parliament’s Transport Committee, said: “Because of the backlog generally, I understand the
deliberation will be subject to a time delay of 18 months.

“It all depends on when the oral hearing will happen. I will do anything I can to try to progress the case, but politicians of course cannot interfere with the legal process.

"Better bus services with bus lanes and a bike share scheme might be more realistic options for the city in the medium term," he added.

The Fine Gael MEP said there was a year long delay between the Supreme Court deciding that the European Courts had to be consulted.

“There was a delay on the Irish side of this, too. The problem was that in 2010, the Supreme Court felt the ECJ needed to be asked their opinion relating to the bypass. However it took them almost a year to decide on what question exactly needed to be asked. Therefore the case has actually only been with the ECJ since July of this year.”

Meanwhile, City Councillor Frank Fahy, who lobbied to find out the decision date from Mr Higgins, expressed his disappointment at the news.

“Galway is choked with traffic, and Galwegians are frequently spending up to an hour trying to get across the city. Today’s update is a serious setback to plans to alleviate the traffic problems. We badly need to speed up the outer bypass,” he said.

It is entirely possible that it will be even longer, however there is precedent on the side of the bypass and that case took about 18 months to get a ruling.

L1011

Iwannahurl wrote: »

TWO YEARS BEFORE DECISION ON CITY BY-PASS

"A decision on the Galway city bypass is at least two years away.

That's according to MEP Jim Higgins who recently received notification from the European court of Justice about the case.

The Supreme court has referred the matter to the European courts but there is still no date fixed yet for an oral hearing."

Non issue in terms of it getting passed. Suspect you knew that was what I meant also.

Iwannahurl

MYOB wrote: »

Non issue in terms of it getting passed. Suspect you knew that was what I meant also.

I didn't.

A projected two-year wait for an ECJ ruling is an issue, inasmuch as it's a significant delay even before work begins on the GCOB proper (assuming that it will, after an ECJ ruling clears the way for a decision on the matter by the Irish courts).

Secondly, I don't see how the ECJ ruling can be taken for granted. The AG and the State would hardly be parties to such a referral to the ECJ, and the ECJ would hardly accept such an application, if it was a foregone conclusion.

The AG and the State are following a well-established EU legal procedure, and I can't imagine that they are doing so because they already know the outcome.

That is not to say that I have any evidence or belief that the ECJ won't issue a decision that ultimately clears the way for the GCOB as planned.

L1011

The State is only involved due to the meddling of a single interest party no longer in government. Without them the SC action would never have had state involvement on Shoutyman's side.