M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

antoobrien

Nok1a wrote: »

Why is this poster allowed to turn every single thread either in the galway forum or the infrastructure forum which mentions the word traffic off topic with his narrow minded ramblings about how people in cars should be lined up and shot. His off the walls theories simply do not work in this country due to years of poor planning(roads, housing) and poor public transport investment, and continuing to regurgitate the same crap that cycling everywhere is the solution is just p1ssing everyone off

Please use the little triangle icon on the post that's annoying you.

If there's more than one use it on all of them.

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

On a more serious note, I have tried to find newsworthy material on the GCOB

So it's not particularly surprising that you missed this little gem (talk about working around the process to beat the process).

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The Western End of the Bypass ( from the N59 at the Glenlo Abbey as far as the R336 in Barna and including the link to Knocknacarra) has now been downgraded to a Regional Road...albeit a 'strategic' one and is named the "Galway City Western Route"

Varadkar then threw €100k at the 'Route' designers this year as you can see in the 2012 Strategic Regional Routes Programme. Note it is a Route not a Road.

Of couse this seriously reduces the cost of the remaining National bit east of the N59 if it makes it out of Europe intact.

Nok1a

antoobrien wrote: »

Please use the little triangle icon on the post that's annoying you.

If there's more than one use it on all of them.

whats the point, he has been warned plenty of times and then goes away for a few days then reappears in a new/same thread and destroys it

antoobrien

Nok1a wrote: »

whats the point, he has been warned plenty of times and then goes away for a few days then reappears in a new/same thread and destroys it

Because posters aren't reporting the posts by the person in question. Take a look at how many times mods in this thread have responded to complaints about backseat modding and the like only for the mod to point out that there have been no posts reported.

Sponge Bob

A number of laudable proposals have been made over the years to modally change Galway from car to tram/bus/foot/rickshaw whatever.

Yet their proponents often fail to spot 3 key points.

1. They are predicated on cars being removed to create space...the rationale for the bypass.

2. There are modes that cannot be substituted....you cannot put people with heart attacks needing to get to UCGH onto a bicycle.

3. Many journeys into Galway are generated by its positioning as a Regional Capital with regional offices for banks semi states telcos etc. These are long haul not commuters.

In order to cater for all of these it is vital that unnecessary traffic be removed and the bypass is the start..not the full solution.

Irish and Proud

Iwannahurl wrote: »

The minister wasn't stuck on the M6. This was a case of being caught in traffic in a city centre area.

He used his brain, and his legs, got out of the car and walked a reasonable distance rather than sit inside it grumbling and moaning pointlessly about being stuck in traffic.

It's farcical, IMO, how often you hear and read complaints in Galway from motorists moaning about being stuck in acute traffic congestion for hours to travel a distance that could be walked in far less time. Then they go back and do the same thing the next day.

Hereabouts, of course, this perspective is interpreted as being anti-car and anti-road, whereas as I see it as a simple case of common sense.

When I walk I don't complain about traffic congestion, because there is no such thing for pedestrians. When I drive I don't moan about traffic congestion because I am contributing to it.

Fair enough point!

However, such will only work if adequate Park 'n' Ride facilities are provided for Buses etc, and Park 'n' Walk facilities are provided at reasonable cost to motorists within a 1/2 hr walk of the city centre (as opposed to the regular city car parks for shopping purposes). I don't know Galway very well, but I'm sure something could be worked out regarding P+R / P+W, even if the odd demolition was required to make way for such facilities.

Regards!

Victor

Apologies for digging in the past.

DanielI wrote: »

I'm afraid that N17 users are going to be even more annoyed if the proposed Special Speed Limit Bye-Laws pass. See attached or at http://www.galwaycity.ie/TopNews/MainBody,6191,en.html

There is no reason for the speed limit to be lowered from 100kph to 50kph for 1km. That road is wide and in good condition.

The time for people to submit their objections expires on 13th of November (www.galwaycity.ie)

This page is no longer available. Does anyone have the documents that went with the consultation, especially any maps?

dubhthach

Victor wrote: »

Apologies for digging in the past.
This page is no longer available. Does anyone have the documents that went with the consultation, especially any maps?

I had a look at the "Way back machine" and found the page here (from 2009) the links to the documents didn't work.

http://web.archive.org/web/20091014100533/http://www.galwaycity.ie/TopNews/MainBody,6191,en.html

However I was able to extract the file names, which I then found using google:

UploadFile,6191,en.pdf
http://www.galwaycity.ie/GeneralNews/UploadFile,6191,en.pdf

UploadAdditionalFile,6191,en.pdf
http://www.galwaycity.ie/GeneralNews/UploadAdditionalFile,6191,en.pdf

antoobrien

Victor wrote: »

Apologies for digging in the past.
This page is no longer available. Does anyone have the documents that went with the consultation, especially any maps?

The original doc (sans maps) is still linked on the original post

It appears that they brought all the 50 km/h as far as the city boundaries on the heaviest used roads (with the main exception of the DC - 100 km/h) - hence the limits stopping in strange looking places on bothríns.

Here's an indicative map of what was done. I've colour coded the roads by limit new limit:
Red 50 km/h
Blue 60 km/h
Brown 80 km/h
Green 100 km/h

antoobrien

I don't know what sources this is based on but it appears that there is some movement on the case with the ECJ.

It appears that a report on the case is being compiled and they're hoping for an Oral hearing in July before their summer break. If that happens they expect a decision in 6-8 weeks.

I believe that this is good news no matter what comes from the case as it means that we will get clear guidance on what can and (perhaps more importantly, especially in Galway it seems) can't be done.

Fate of city bypass could be known by September

The fate of the long-awaited Galway City Outer Bypass could be known as early as September following a request for an oral hearing by parties involved in the case currently before the European Court of Justice (ECJ).

It is likely that a date will be set for the oral hearing before the ECJ adjourns for the summer in mid-July, providing the reporting judge has finalised their preliminary report as expected.

Submissions from parties to the case will be heard by an Advocate-General of the ECJ in Luxembourg, who will issue a legal opinion on the matter within six to eight weeks.

While the opinions of Advocates-General are not binding on the court, they are hugely influential and are followed by judges of the ECJ in the vast majority of cases.

It is therefore likely that the future of the Galway City Outer Bypass project will effectively be decided in the final quarter of this year, according to Fine Gael TD Brian Walsh following consultation with the Secretariat of the ECJ.

The Galway West Deputy said that a judge would then produce a draft judgment based on the opinion of the Advocate-General, which would be considered by a chamber of judges prior to the publication of a final ruling.

“If everything goes according to plan, an oral hearing will take place before the ECJ breaks for the summer and we will have a very firm indication of whether the project can proceed as planned within six to eight weeks from that point,” said Deputy Walsh.

“Obviously, further challenges exist but a positive outcome in the case later this year would be a major step in advancing the project, and we could turn our attention towards paving the way for further progress.”

Sponge Bob

The Bypass cannot come soon enough for the banksters.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/24983-glenlo-worth-%E2%82%AC4m-%E2%80%93-though-land-valued-%E2%82%AC60m-during-boom

The landmark five-star Glenlo Abbey Hotel in Galway – where its sprawling lands were once valued at up to €60 million at the height of the property boom – is now worth just €4m.

Property sources in the city have said the hotel – which was placed in receivership a fortnight ago on foot of bank debts – would only be likely to achieve in the region of €4m.

The hotel is set on around 140 acres of land – some of which the former owners, the Bourke family – hoped would be purchased for the Galway City Outer Bypass and pay off their €8m in debts.

“It’s only a few years ago that the lands alone were valued at up to €60m. The hotel now would go for around €4m, maybe just over that,” one local property expert told the Sentinel.

The owners had pinned their hopes on their land being bought under Compulsory Purchase Order for the Outer Bypass, which has been shelved until a decision is sent down from the European Court of Justice.

antoobrien

That article brings up an interesting question, is the value of the land included in the CPO?

If so will we still be paying 2007/8 land prices or current prices?

mydiscworld

antoobrien wrote: »

That article brings up an interesting question, is the value of the land included in the CPO?

If so will we still be paying 2007/8 land prices or current prices?

Current market value, of course

antoobrien

mydiscworld wrote: »

Current market value, of course

You hope or you know?


Source please.

mydiscworld

antoobrien wrote: »

You hope or you know?


Source please.

Well if no CPO has been issued to date, current market value will be used once the ECJ rules on the matter at hand.

A simple google of it threw up this

http://www.jordan-auctioneers.ie/articles-compulsory-purchase.aspx

"The basis of compensation for property acquired is market value... the affected party is left in the same financial position after the CPO as they were prior to the process. The compensation should reflect both the actual land acquired and the diminution in value (if any) of the retained area as a result of the CPO."

antoobrien

mydiscworld wrote: »

Well if no CPO has been issued to date, current market value will be used once the ECJ rules on the matter at hand.

It's unclear as to whether the CPOs have been issued or if it's just the list of lands that will be subject to CPO.

mydiscworld wrote: »

"The basis of compensation for property acquired is market value... the affected party is left in the same financial position after the CPO as they were prior to the process. The compensation should reflect both the actual land acquired and the diminution in value (if any) of the retained area as a result of the CPO."

Now I see where you're coming from, cheers.

Iwannahurl

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The Bypass cannot come soon enough for the banksters.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/24983-glenlo-worth-%E2%82%AC4m-%E2%80%93-though-land-valued-%E2%82%AC60m-during-boom

The banksters haven't gone away, you know.

They're just biding their time until the NAMA bailout of FF's (& FG's) developer friends eventually works itself out.

Then it'll be back to business as usual, I imagine.

http://www.kmsgalway.com/menu.asp?menu=122&parent=0&item=0003

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

The banksters haven't gone away, you know.

They're just biding their time until the NAMA bailout of FF's (& FG's) developer friends eventually works itself out.

Then it'll be back to business as usual, I imagine.

http://www.kmsgalway.com/menu.asp?menu=122&parent=0&item=0003

A lot of that is in the county development plan 2003-2009. In it you'll find references to Arduan and Briarhill

Go read them and give us a break from your conspiracy theories.

galwayrush

Iwannahurl wrote: »

http://www.kmsgalway.com/menu.asp?menu=122&parent=0&item=0003

A lot of great ideas in that link, if all that happens, we'll have a very progressive city, lots of jobs created.:cool:The outer by pass is really the vital first step to get the traffic moving and most of it away from the city centre.

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

A lot of that is in the county development plan 2003-2009. In it you'll find references to Arduan and Briarhill

Go read them and give us a break from your conspiracy theories.

No need for any conspiracy theories. The realities behind the "Celtic Tiger" charade, and the unsustainable abuse of public expenditure involved, are more than enough to be dealing with. Those follies and abuses will take many years to unravel, and it remains to be seen whether permanent lessons have been learned. County development plans didn't do much to prevent such follies and abuses -- if they had done so, NAMA wouldn't exist now.

http://www.nama.ie/

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/1005/1224305257468.html




.

Sponge Bob

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Then it'll be back to business as usual, I imagine.

http://www.kmsgalway.com/menu.asp?menu=122&parent=0&item=0003

That was written around 2007. Different planet then. One quote.

The former Crown site is to be developed into a €300 million retail park

Lets get back to reality instead of the fantastical ravings of a Galway auctioneer shall we.

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

No need for any conspiracy theories.

Right so instead of reading the areas plans, the city and county development plans you jump on the populist conspiracy theory bandwagon (supported by the two papers that did the most to drive the popular perception of the property boom) and go NAMA basing while ignoring that the city & county councils are planning for Galway's future.

Mods can we just move the thread here please?:rolleyes:

IWH, as pointed out, please take that stuff to the relevent forum instead of trying to derail yet another thread. Personally I'm over listening to you in anything to do with roads/ infrastructure when all you seem to do is imitate an Occupy protestor by jumping from objection to objection with little coherant logic linking your comments to the actual topic of concern.

AAAaaaaanyway, getting back on topic. Isn't the EU decision due soon?

antoobrien

Deleted User wrote: »

AAAaaaaanyway, getting back on topic. Isn't the EU decision due soon?

Potentially September

antoobrien

It looks like the next hearing for the case has been scheduled for the first week of July, with an expected result in October/November.

July hearing in Euro Court of Justice for Galway City Bypass

Barristers for Galway County Council are to begin presentations to the ECJ on July 5 and sources suggest that the European Commission is anxious that proceedings on the long-running saga would soon come to an end.

“The issue of the bypass was referred by the Supreme Court in Ireland, to the ECJ. All noticed parties have made submissions to the ECJ which will be heard by the Advocate General in Luxembourg. A final verdict is expected some time in October/November,” said Frank Gilmore, Department of Roads, Transportation, Marine & General Services at Galway County Council.

GalwayMagpie

Thanks for that, is this decision the end of the process.

If approved is there any other form of recourse for the opposers.

Robbo

GalwayMagpie wrote: »

Thanks for that, is this decision the end of the process.

If approved is there any other form of recourse for the opposers.

An Bord Pleannala approved it and thanks to low locus standi requirements, this was appealed to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court referred it to the ECJ to determine on matters of Community Law, so this really is the end of the line, one way or another.

After the July 5th hearing, the Advocate General of the ECJ will give an opinion. This opinion is usually followed by the Court but there have been a couple of notable exceptions.

antoobrien

Must be a slow news week in Galway.

Kenny pledges bypass funding if go-ahead given

The Taoiseach has given a firm commitment to provide funding for the long-awaited €300 million Galway City Outer Bypass, if the project is given the go-ahead by the European Court of Justice. The case will be heard on July 5, and a decision from the ECJ is expected by November.

The bypass is being treated as a ‘top priority’ by the Government in its new capital investment programme.

Already, the Government has a €17 billion investment programme – Minister for Public Expenditure Brendan Howlin has said it will be seeking to add “significant amounts in terms of billions” to the fund.

Galway West TD Brian Walsh told the Galway City Tribune that the bypass remained an infrastructural priority of the Government, and would be top of the list for consideration under any new investment programme.

“I spoke to the Taoiseach in relation to this matter during his visit to Galway last week, and he reiterated his commitment to the project and spoke very positively about the prospect of advancement in the event of a favourable decision from the ECJ.

“He advised me that he felt the bypass would be an ideal candidate for progression under any new capital investment plan that may emerge.

“The outer bypass has been assessed by the Department of Transport as the top-ranking roads project in the State in terms of a cost-benefit ratio, and it remains an absolute priority.

“I know that Ministers Noonan and Howlin are in the process of talks with the EU-IMF-ECB troika regarding a new stimulus plan, under which a number of capital infrastructure projects can be expected to advance.

“This represents a great opportunity for the progression of the Galway bypass and could result in the road being built sooner rather than later, provided the project receives the approval of the courts,” said Deputy Walsh.

serfboard

antoobrien wrote: »

Kenny pledges bypass funding if go-ahead given

Must be a slow news week in Galway.

Agreed. A complete nothing article. Like, what kind of crap is this:

"This ... could result in the road being built sooner rather than later"

Really. That's very insightful. :rolleyes:

There's billions coming if ye vote yes to the treaty. BILLIONS, I TELL YA!!!

Albert Reynolds mark II.

yer man!

What are the chances of this getting approval from the courts?