M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

xckjoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119755789#Comment_119755789

Yup. That's what a lot of us are complaining about. The plan seems to be one major new road+bridge and a token bus route and then somehow traffic will just magically disappear. Even their own plan shows that it'll cause an increase in car dependency.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119755821#Comment_119755821

Okay so is it this simple??....

.... permission should be given to the road with the absolute legal requirement that cars are removed from the 3 inner city bridges upon completion?

In the meantime, Bus Connects can (and is) being planned using one of those bridges.

xckjoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119755887#Comment_119755887

Personally I still wouldn't be in favor of it because it'll still induce demand and encourage housing sprawl. I think we can achieve the results without needing the new bridge. It would be a vastly better proposal than what they're currently offering though and I would probably be fairly neutral about it if that was on the cards.

rustyfrog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119755887#Comment_119755887

Bus Connects is pushing ahead with 50kph design speed and without segregated cycle lanes in obvious places like University Road and College Road. They're using active travel funding to work on it. I wouldn't send my daughter off to school on her bike on bus lanes with double deckers doing 50kph.

Larbre34

Nobody obeys 30 km/h limits anyway, so you can either send her with buses doing 50 in a 50 zone, or send her with buses doing 50 in a 30 zone.

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119755747#Comment_119755747

Coming by car from East to West O'Brien's Bridge is inaccessible. The Salmon Weir bridge will be inaccessible. Wolfe Tone Bridge is already choked up around the Docks and will come under further pressure with the removal of the Salmon Weir bridge, rendering it effectively inaccessible.

Leaving only one bridge for car traffic. Fun and games ahead.

xckjoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756309#Comment_119756309

Not to be pedantic here but that doesn't change what I said. O'Briens is already inaccessible in that direction and Wolfe Tone is choked up with car traffic so by definition it's in use by cars. The only change is to the Salmon Weir.

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756397#Comment_119756397

Indeed. I'm not disagreeing that there are no plans for the other bridges, rather pointing out the effects of the Bus Gate.

I'm curious how O'Brien's Bridge is accessed coming from East to West?

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756309#Comment_119756309

I'm not sure I follow the logic here. Wolf Tone Bridge will at the same time be effectively inaccessible and also transporting so many cars that it will cause the approach to be choked up?😉

Maybe I'm fortunate that I travel east to west each morning, instead of west to east. Mostly by bike but occasionally by car. The other two bridges would be handier for me, and by bike I'll generally go over the Quincentenary Bridge, but Wolfe Tone is my preferred bridge when driving as it's always the quickest.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756262#Comment_119756262

I have zero problem with speed cameras taking care of that

Or speed bumps

or chicanes

Or road narrowing

Many ways to skin a cat

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756445#Comment_119756445

The logic is simple enough - it only requires a small number of cars to choke up both Wolfe Tone Bridge itself and the approaches. The amount of pedestrains both using and not using the pedestrian lights at Spanish Arch also slows traffic. Therefore the vast majority of East-West traffic will end up taking the QCB instead.

I take your point that the route may be quieter in the morning, but then Ballybrit/Parkmore/Mervue aren't on the West side of the river, and I doubt you'd have too many people going to NUIG/UCHG using the Wolfe Tone Bridge either.

xckjoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756437#Comment_119756437

Where there's a will there's a way! 😁

Ah no. Typo in original post. Fixed now

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756453#Comment_119756453

You might have no problem with it, but various recent failed experiments show that the lowest acceptable limit to the vast majority of people, on roads that aren't residential estates or cul-de-sacs, is 50.

You can erect all the speed cameras you like, but 30 will never be accepted. The proof of that is Dublin City Council completely dropping their proposals for a wide scale roll out of 30 on main urban routes, because the feedback and advice they received was that it would be a farce.

The limit of curtailment that motorists will accept has been reached. Maybe you'd tell Eamon Ryan next time he wakes up.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757252#Comment_119757252

I was recently over in the UK and boy have them embraced the "20 is plenty" campaign. 20mph being the equiv to our 30k limit here.

Everywhere has seen it being rolled out on a massive scale. And I'm not just talking about the cities, where I saw it in operation in London, Manchester and Edinburgh, but tiny villages and regular sized towns all over the country have it. I drove over 2,000 km there over a few weeks and it was more unusual to find a place that DIDN'T have it

And its being adhered to.

Its literally only a matter of time before it gets implemented on a wide scale here. Its already been gathering momentum for years here as parents are sick of their kids being endangered by dangerous drivers and dangerous limits

rustyfrog

"The limit of curtailment that motorists will accept has been reached."

Well, there goes plans to handover the city streets to pedestrians and active or public transport after the new road is built...

I expect that type of attitude would persist and reallocation of road space would not be acceptable by many motorists?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757252#Comment_119757252

More of your nonsense! 🙄

https://twitter.com/modacitylife/status/1581190625017614337?t=svFBrFLY8F5A4xMIFZpBqw&s=19

what_traffic

More reading

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/galway-ring-road-5895409-Oct2022/

serfboard

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/ceo-of-galway-chamber-says-mountains-must-be-moved-to-get-ring-road-back-on-track/

For those opposed to this Ring Road, I see no evidence that it is going away.

Larbre34

There was never any doubt that it would not.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757642#Comment_119757642

Galway CC can keep coming up with new road plans but now they have to be evaluated under CAP so it’ll be a tougher act to sell. It will keep TII staff and the engineers in Arup in a job so I guess that’s always positive. The endless loop of Dart plans on the opposite coast have had the same effect.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757516#Comment_119757516

When Galway, or even Dublin for that matter, has a public transport network to rival Brussels, then we'll talk about the relevance of this. Until then, it has none.

It's quite fun to see the attitude to Eamon Ryan's so-called Pathfinder projects today. I think they can be summed up in one comment I read, "this man must be stopped".

Incidentally, this is a Pathfinder...

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756397#Comment_119756397

All 3 inner city bridges need to be fully removed of cars and replaced with bus / tram gates and cycle lanes. None of that will EVER happen without an additional river crossing such as the GCRR.

In a county and city already plagued by sprawl and rainfall 230days per year (130days in Dublin), it is absolute fantasy to expect people to abandon the car.

The GCRR plan needs to remove one or 2 junctions on the east side and include an express requirement to ban cars from inner city bridges upon completion. That's it. Build it.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757753#Comment_119757753

Do people seriously believe Galway will become some shining beacon for the rest of the world? Don't build roads, they're not needed ......

Just imagine for a second that Galway embraces high rise concentrated developed near the city with Luas, Metro GALORE. The whole works - WHERE and HOW do all the heavy machinery, vans and tools, materials etc get into and around the city?

I mean seriously - do people think they'll be flown into the city on solar powered aircraft? OMG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757753#Comment_119757753

The Salmon Weir will be closed to private cars within 1-2 years as part of bus connects

O'Briens bridge is, for all intents and purposes, closed to through traffic. Its open, and you can cross the city using it, but feck all do because its a balls trying to get through the tiny streets that you can actually use

So yeah, within 2 years there's only going to be 2 bridges, for the most part

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757865#Comment_119757865

I'm not clear what you're even on about to be honest. Why would we need to build new roads to get machinery, vans and tools into and around the city? Adapting road networks so that vehicles can get access to whatever destination they need to, but where through traffic is discouraged on narrower and/or residential streets, is a well established practice. It's standard in the Netherlands and we even have a recent small example in Galway with the change of direction in Middle Street and Augustine Street, and closing access through Cross Street. You used to get cars doing multiple clockwise loops around Middle Street and Augustine Street, hoping a parking space would free up. Now Middle Street is only accessed by vehicles that need get to a destination actually on Middle Street or Cross Street Lower. So those streets are much more liveable outside of the morning delivery hours but no vehicle is prevented from getting in their if needed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757865#Comment_119757865

Its really very simple and has been done and is being done in cities all across the world.

You do a carrot and stick approach and offer viable, safe alternatives

Carrot

• Full network of bus lanes and bus priority measures on all junctions used
• All bus services run at <10 min frequency
• All bus stops have shelters
• All routes run from 5am to 1am, 24hr on Thu, Fri & Sat
• No taxis allowed in bus lanes -Park & Ride on all arterial routes with free parking, bike storage and pedestrian access
• Full network of protected bike lanes
• Dutch junctions
• Massive increase in the provision of bike parking
• Add footpaths where missing (there's a load)
• At crossings add speed bumps and button presses trigger the crossing immediately
• Massive increase in permeability to shorten walks
• Dual line from Athenry to Galway with 20 min commuter train frequency

Stick

• Remove all on-street parking
• Workplace parking levies for any employer with more than a dozen spaces
• No through route through the city centre, only by the QCB
• All parking lots have a 5 euro levy for the first hour of parking
• All council parking lots charge by the hour. No day rates
• Automatic fines for blocking buses in junctions or lanes
• Illegal parking, fines start at 500 eur, car gets towed
• Congestion charges
• Low emission zone
• No HGV access to the city center proper, depot on the outskirts for goods transfer by smaller vehicles, wouldn't apply to pallet deliveries.

Once you do all that, hell even half of those, any lad in a white van will fly into and out of the city in no time as there'll be loads of capacity on the remaining road network.

maninasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119754810#Comment_119754810

I'm not a planner but this seems so obvious you wonder wtf the people in charge are thinking.

You take the cars outside the city, you get more space for PT and bikes . It's not that bloody complicated.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757725#Comment_119757725

All it takes then is a Government who’ll come along and dismantle the climate legislation and likely pick up large support in the process. A policy of handicapping this country in the futile crusade to stick to “national emissions targets” will eventually be torn apart in a democracy like this one.

“Galway needs to make large sacrifices for the world” is not going to be a major vote winner as people turn on their TV and watch a gas pipeline spew out the equivalent of 7.5 million tonnes of CO2 and be expected to welcome being told that they’re the problem

(I am not advocating this position btw)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119758426#Comment_119758426

There is no plan anywhere that says once this road opens x, y & z will happen immediately after to improve all other modes.

If there were you'd likely see near zero opposition.

What you are likely to see happening now is the GTS being reviewed and updated to pull the GCRR out of it. That will mean the GTS will need to be a lot more robust with a lot more AT & PT measures with further deprioritisation of cars with workplace parking levies, increased parking costs in the city, removal of on-street parking etc etc

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757731#Comment_119757731

So let's keep the status quo until we have a world class public transport system in place? What an incredibly stupid view!