M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

rustyfrog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119761037#Comment_119761037

There is already a West-East dual carriageway; the existing N6 and SQD, also linking to the WDR.

"Galway city is at the heart of the county and you CAN'T cross side to the other without going into the heart of the city or sitting on a bridge in traffic. It's a joke."

That's what you'll get with the proposed ring road, queueing to exist/enter to travel to/from your preferred part of the city (for 97% of morning traffic).

If promises hold true, you'll have lower priority on the roads in those parts of the city you're accessing.

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119760672#Comment_119760672

Thanks, but I wasn't asking about the Cross-City link - I was asking about the Bus Connects Galway Dublin Road project AKA BCGDublinRoad - i.e. the one that starts at Moneenageesha and ends at the Galway Clinic. As I said, the part that would seem to me to be a relatively easy win since there are already Bus Lanes in place on parts of it, and some of the land take required is unused and/or public.

All that I can see is a page from the City Council's website that says: "This non-statutory public consultation is now closed. Feedback and comments are now under review (January 2021)." And since then?

Also, that page tells people to visit the project website. And that website is a one-pager that says (and I'm not making this up): "Updated Website Pending".

It's a joke. An absolute feckin' joke.

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119760818#Comment_119760818

Thank you @[Deleted User] for your service to this thread in reading through all that and summarising. Your analysis seems spot-on, if sadly, unsurprising.

But even before we get to building P&Rs, a simple example of how absolutely glacial the whole approach is, is to ask about the Tuam Road Bus Lanes. Where are we with that? Or the Parkmore Road improvements?

TnxM17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119761055#Comment_119761055

I have to ask - what are you on about?

I haven't suggested that Galway should ban cars across any bridge. If that is your suggestion by all means, go ahead and make that argument. But it seems at odds with you also wanting the "bypass".

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119761366#Comment_119761366

There won't be anything on that until the CCL is approved as they join together at the Huntsman and there is no point submitting the plans for the next section if the first isn't approved as that would knacker the second if they had to pull it back and modify it.

Once the CCL is approved (due next Apr) you'll see movement on it. Likely go into planning mid to later next year with approval late 2023/early 2024. While the CCL will begin construction in 2024, the Dublin Rd would likely be starting in late 2025/early 2026.

The big thing with the CCL will be the route through the hospital grounds. If that isn't implemented with the CCL it'll all fall flat on its face as buses will be stuck on the current route until they navigate around Newcastle

Timelines are my own best-guesstimates btw

I think these 3 tweets from Ciaran cannon kinda sum up the issue for the GCRR in terms of getting past the CAP and any potential legal challenges on that basis

https://twitter.com/ciarancannon/status/1581648905418444800?s=20&t=o-jaXXmY_KS5YKRhkxvjZg

https://twitter.com/ciarancannon/status/1581662748370354176?s=20&t=o-jaXXmY_KS5YKRhkxvjZg

https://twitter.com/ciarancannon/status/1581665535971819521?s=20&t=o-jaXXmY_KS5YKRhkxvjZg

What I would love to see, is the map in the second tweet showing 1 day before opening, projection 1, 3, 5 & 10 years after opening. As with all roads of this type, the situation is likely to be worse than it was to begin with and likely to be that way within 5 years of opening

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119759978#Comment_119759978

What you have described are not the two factions here. There are other options and other options were available but the promoters of this project were determined to build a full bypass from Coolagh to Barna. They ignored the findings of the studies they had commissioned (particularly the nature of travel in and around the city) and necessitated ridiculously elaborate and expensive structures (viaduct and tunnel). This is one extreme of the spectrum here and those that subscribe to that look down on everybody with a different opinion with nonsense like "bikes and buses are everything".

The current plan was never going to happen, this was obvious for the beginning. It was always going to be too expensive and unnecessarily complex which brought in other issues (environmental, landowner resistance (eg. Galway Racecourse), etc.). And to make things worse, any other changes were predicated on this bypass meaning nothing else has happened in the intervening years. How many more years do we need to waste on this bypass?

My opinion is, and I have been saying in this thread for several years, is that a new bridge is needed but that does not mean a Coolagh to Barna bypass. On the eastern side, a new link from M6 to Parkmore Road (with bus priority) could take a lot of traffic away from Coolagh roundabout. On the western side, any new road should only connect to the N59. That frees up the QCB for hugely improved bus services, along with improvements either side.

There are other options which need to be considered, sticking belligerently to this bypass is only going to result in nothing happening for many more years.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119762341#Comment_119762341

Is this something like you propose? Marked in red

The only issue I see with the M6 proposal is it routes straight through where they are planning to build a few thousand homes (Ardaun)

The N59 option, you were fuzzy on the detail so I took a wild guess, no idea if its what you meant

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119762436#Comment_119762436

I was intentionally low on detail because the solution should be guided by assessments and feasibility. This does not seem to have happened with the current bypass proposal where the starting point seems to have been a motorway between Coolagh and Barna and flesh out the detail from there.

Getting more detailed for a minute, I thought Ardaun was south of the M6. In any case, something would need to be done to facilitate the new development so this could be part of that solution. On the western side, come off the N6 west of the N83, past Ballindoyle and use the current bridge proposal and N59 connection.

But my point really was that there were and are other options to consider. It seems supporters of the current bypass plan presented it as the only possible option to avoid any real assessment of it. We can see this throughout this thread, the "it's either this or you expect everyone to cycle to work" narrative. And of course "the bypass frees up space, so I get what I want now and you might get what you want at some undefined point in the future", so public/active transport is only a sweetener after all drivers have been accommodated.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119762436#Comment_119762436

OMG let's do this PLEASE.

Just to shut up anyone who wants a full bypass / ring road / distributor road (for right or wrong).

This new bridge would placate the people who are skeptical of relying solely on PT & AT.

The HUGE cost saving can be pumped into 15 minute bus service to Bearna, Claregalway etc. and 10minute bus service in city centre.

Geuze

I am not a massive supporter or opposer of the GCRR.

But I do like the idea of another bridge.

So I am drawn to Pete_Cavan suggestion, and had been thinking the same myself.

However, I realise people are going to say, that just sends the traffic into the Menlo Park junction.............

brianc89

I'm about to submit this detailed drawing to ABP. If anyone has feedback please speak now or forever hold your peace. No JR please. 😅

• Bypass in Red - connecting to a new Corrib bridge as per @[Deleted User] image above.

• Remove direct access to bypass from Briarhill and Boston junctions.

• Distributor roads in blue.

• Only one lane of car traffic on ALL roads plus one lane of PT & AT.

• Ban cars from the 3x inner city bridges 24/7

brianc89

From the N59 you can only access the bypass Eastbound by using a "split junction" closer to the river, while Westbound only by using the other side of the "split junction" further west at Barnacranny.

The bypass including a new bridge over the river would continue (one lane only) all the way past Bearna.

Pete_Cavan

I think something like this would work at Coolagh. Mid blue is M6 westbound to Parkmore which shares a bridge with N6 eastbound to N67. The bridge and its associated links could be built with minimal distruption. N67 to M6 eastbound requires an underpass under the existing roundabout which would be completely removed and would obviously be very disruptive. Dedicated bus lanes would have to be provided between M6 and Parkmore.

Then I would make Briarhill junction left turn movements only, but a flyover from Parkmore would be needed to facilitate the right turn of traffic going west.

rustyfrog

Great to see alternative approaches to solving the problem. Doesn't help those that have pinned their pension investment on future development land out by Barna and Furbo though. ;-)

Seth Brundle

Irish Doctors for the Environment respond to the recent ABP decision...

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119764557#Comment_119764557

If the Irish Doctors are so concerned about the environment, they might have a word with their colleagues who park their pollution-spewing Range Rover tanks outside Barna school ...

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119764893#Comment_119764893

Feel free to let them know 🙄

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119764903#Comment_119764903

Typical Doctors - great at prescribing what everyone else should be doing - not so good at doing it themselves ...

xckjoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119764922#Comment_119764922

Maybe they aren't the same doctors....

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119764922#Comment_119764922

So you think because one or two doctors wrongly leave their RRs idling, all doctors are hypocrites?

Don't be so daft!

Just on the whole "but everywhere has a bypass".

Conjuring up my best Peregrin Took impression, "we've had one bypass, yes, but what about the second byass"

https://twitter.com/javsantoyo/status/1582764896307253248?s=20&t=XBqBe6APMi3LPBW4xq2NMQ

https://twitter.com/javsantoyo/status/1582765446880632832?s=20&t=XBqBe6APMi3LPBW4xq2NMQ

https://twitter.com/javsantoyo/status/1582766027208654851?s=20&t=XBqBe6APMi3LPBW4xq2NMQ

brianc89

Eugh I'm giving up on this entire project guys.

Good luck making Galway a shining beacon of hope for the whole planet. I live in Dublin so it doesn't actually impact me. I'll check back in in 3 decades and see how you're getting on 👍🤞

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119761055#Comment_119761055

Which would make a huge bit of the inner city unliveable for lots of people. A totally dumb thing to do, because those people would end up travelling more to access services.

In Galway, the city centre isn't where the traffic problems begin or end. Most don't go through it, either.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119766601#Comment_119766601

Where is Galways' first bypass?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119767552#Comment_119767552

In the bin

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119767672#Comment_119767672

Just bin the whole city and start again. Or maybe by the time anything is built or not built for the 131st time, they'll have invented teleportation. So then Galway will only need to wait another 48years before planning is approved to consider consultations on installing teleportation.

Everyone loses but we're all equally unhappy about it, so we're all happy with that actually. Good job Galway 👍🤞

CruelSummer

It’s interesting that some on this thread don’t want to just promote greener forms of transport which of course is welcome. They’ve become radicalised to the extent they’re opposed to new roads being constructed in any form, limiting freedom of movement for people taking a car and driving and forcing their own agenda down peoples neck. Banning cars from Galway with no alternative routes for car and goods traffic is insanity and also blocks off Connemara. Do these posters oppose tourists going to visit Connemara too? Are they opposed to businesses trying to function and get deliveries in Galway city centre? Many of the posters against the bypass also don’t seem to be based in Galway. Neighbouring county Mayo had a dual carriageway constructed and ready to open next year and a fly over at Claremorris in the blink of an eye. In the meantime, the contrarians stop all development of Galway city.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769128#Comment_119769128

Who said anything about banning cars?

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769128#Comment_119769128

Isn't spending over a billion on a ring road, a ring road which, by the figures in the report, will increase traffic on many roads in Galway city, "forcing their own agenda down peoples neck"?

I don't think that anyone is talking about banning cars? The aim is to reduce the amount of unnecessary car journeys, not to "ban" all cars, which should allow smoother journeys for those who do have necessary car journeys. At the end of the day, traffic is solved by moving people more efficiently, which is very, very different to moving vehicles more efficiently.