M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625076#Comment_119625076

Through traffic accounts for 3% according to the application documents.

Also, in the history of the world, there has never been a road added that didn't lead to greater congestion. You build roads, you get more traffic, simple as.

If this road gets built it will improve things for 3-4 years and then steadily get worse until it results in a worse result than what it aimed to fix.

cgcsb

The entire population of Conemarra is about 30,000, it would take all of them (including infants) crossing the corrib in their own car every day to justify the standard of road proposed.

I mean through traffic which includes people getting from one side of town to the other, traffic that is probably excluded from the "through traffic" figures quoted.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119626069#Comment_119626069

so a commuter road stretching a short distance between 2 parts of the same urban area, not a bypass.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119626069#Comment_119626069

If you live in Galway City and your destination is in Galway City, you're an idiot for driving and deserve the traffic caused by that stupidity.

Walking, bus and cycling are all more efficient as the internal roads and streets are maxed out for capacity with private cars. So if you want to shift more people, faster, then the only option is to avoid the car option.

Congestion charges would be a good idea as well as tripling the cost of parking in the council car parks as well as eliminating all on street parking spaces.

If I was shown a plan tomorrow morning that said here's the ring road and a full (FULL!!!!) network of protected bike lanes and bus lanes all over the city, with no through route through the city centre for cars (QCB & GCRR only), a congestion charge, no on street parking, mass pedestrianisation and a plethora of traffic calming and pedestrian prioritisation options...... I would support that.

What's being offered is a 1 billion euro ring road and a few half measures..... and that's being generous

Fortunately, I don't either live or work in Galway, It's just an observation that the bypass if ever built will be finished years after many of the posters here have retired.

The Ideal solution for Galway would be bus or light rail network with routes to P+R terminals at the ends of the main roads leading to the city and routeed via the centre to the industrial and main housing areas with interchanges near the railway station.

DCC illustrating the point on efficient use of limited space and how the mode chosen will affect the capacity of that space

https://twitter.com/DubCityCouncil/status/1570714433554624512?s=20&t=3K3tlosfiE7NpD1kKXFb-w

what_traffic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119626021#Comment_119626021

That 3% is pretty old data now - but I would say it is roughly around the same figure today.

Galway City is the destination.

We have roughly same amount of City Work Commuters commuting within the City (modes have a good enough mix here by Irish standards) as we have County Commuters coming into the City. 90%+ are car Commuters. This for whom the City Ring Road is been built. The rurban County Commuters.

At this point I laugh anytime I hear somebody say, "but all the housing is in Knocknacarra and all the workplaces are in Mervue/Parkmore." The numbers don't stack up for this argument anymore. The sheer volume of cars coming into the City from the rurban County Commuters is overwhelming the existing City Network.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119626958#Comment_119626958

Given the projected growth of the city, the only solution I see for that is a series of P&R's around the outskirts of the city. A ring road won't do anything except move the traffic jam from A to B i.e. there'll still be too many cars for the capacity of the roads

Regarding the costs estimate, looks like the 1 billion figure might be on the low side

https://twitter.com/ccferrie/status/1570692172059676673?s=20&t=iB6wJj9x7SKoiVR03Vo4zQ

https://twitter.com/ccferrie/status/1570692173812871170?s=20&t=iB6wJj9x7SKoiVR03Vo4zQ

Gadgetman496

Planning permission for the Galway City Ring Road is to be quashed by An Bord Pleanala. It’s because the board has conceded it failed to take into account the Government’s new Climate Action Plan, adopted late last year.

An Bord Pleanala says it was not aware that the plan had been adopted when it granted permission for the €600m project in November.

It’s after a High Court challenge was taken against the decision by The Friends of the Irish Environment group.

It’s expected the planning application will be re-examined, taking the Climate Action Plan into account before any new decision is reached.

Pete_Cavan

So that's two Galway bypasses which have now been thrown out. A new approach is needed.

CatInABox

Lol. As predicted by myself and many others, although I thought that ABP & Co would put up more of a fight.

Even by ABP standards, that's an exceptionally stupid thing to do. No project of this size is going to get through planning without having every i dotted and every t crossed. I wonder if it's possible to FOI any emails that mention the climate plan, be interesting to see if they were actually clueless about it.

Gadgetman496

14th October 2022.

Joint Statement in relation to this morning’s communication from An Bord Pleanála.

Galway County Council, Galway City Council and Transport Infrastructure Ireland are disappointed to learn from An Bord Pleanála that they will not be opposing, on a very limited ground, the judicial review proceedings taken by the Friends of the Irish Environment challenging the Board’s decision to approve the N6 GCRR.

We understand that the matter will be mentioned before the Courts in a few weeks’ time.

Notwithstanding this setback Galway County Council and Galway City Council are confident that the issues arising can be resolved and as a result intend to continue to progress the delivery of the N6 GCRR Project.

The N6 GCRR is a key component of the Galway Transport Strategy and as the city and its environs continue to grow, it is crucial to safeguarding the future development of Galway City as the principal economic centre in the west of Ireland and to ensure that its development is sustainable.

The N6 GCRR sits within the overall transport system. It addresses the transport problem in Galway City by adding trip capacity to the existing transport network thereby reducing trips through the city centre and the new links incorporated as part of the N6 GCRR provide for the strategic need of the national road network and for the connectivity of Galway City and the West Region to the national road and Ten – T network.

The N6 GCRR will also facilitate the population growth and compact and sustainable development of Galway City envisaged in the NPF by providing the space on the transport network for allocation of space to public transport and active modes. And furthermore, once the GTS is fully implemented, which includes interventions to re-allocate the freed road space in the city centre to public transport, there will be an even greater significant shift to public transport and sustainable transport modes.

It is acknowledged that there is a request from all the parties involved that the legal proceedings be adjourned on Monday 17th October 2022 for mention in three weeks to enable the parties to liaise in relation to the form of Orders. In that context, it would not be appropriate to comment further at this time.

End.

CruelSummer

Incompetence breeding incompetence. The original ring road road should have been built years ago. Cannot understand why more isn’t being done re bus routes, local trains etc. There’s good uptake on services currently available. A new road is needed particularly from Tuam road across the Corrib and West Side, Time for a new plan.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119744086#Comment_119744086

Nothing is being done because the councils have decided that nothing can be done until this ring road is completed. A total farce.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119744111#Comment_119744111

...and once built, they'll wonder why traffic has gotten heavier and will look into building some relief roads while they plan a new ring road.

brianc89

Now is their chance to change this "distributor road" to an actual bypass by removing one or two of the junctions.

Building a distributor road, which is literally designed to distribute cars from residential areas to employment centres, will only encourage more people to drive.

This road is needed, but not as currently designed. It's 2022, the world has moved on. Let's build this road, but build it right.

Aontachtoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119744251#Comment_119744251

They’ll probably find the answer to that in the same place as “why are all the houses which were empty when we built them now full, and why are these schools and hospitals overflowing now when they were under capacity when they were opened?” The solutions are the same for all of them too.

Chris_5339762

Nearly fourteen years since I posted this thread. What a farce. Regardless of whether you agree with the bypass or not, you've got to admit that the level of competence that got it quashed in the way it did, leaves a LOT to be desired.

KrisW1001

A bypass to where, though? There’s no need for the western half of this scheme if you just want to link the long-distance routes that converge on Galway.

Roads are needed, but nothing on this scale. Two or three roads similar to the Limerick Northern Distributor (i.e., one traffic lane, one bus lane and one cycleway in each direction) properly sited would do more to enable alternatives private car commuting, and do more to fix Galway’s traffic problems. The problem isn’t a lack of road space; it’s a lack of alternatives to getting in your car and battling with twenty thousand other car commuters every morning and evening.

Fantastic, now Galway City just needs to forget about this road and get serious about alternatives

• P&R's on all approach roads
• Full network of Protected bike lanes
• Full network of bus lanes
• Bus priority measures on all junctions used by buses
• All bus routes running on less than 10 minutes frequency from 6am to midnight
• Dutch junction design for cyclists and pedestrians
• Commuter rail every 20 mins

That's just for a start

Larbre34

As soon as the Greens are out of Government, the Climate Action Plan must be amended to reflect the economic need for this bypass and have it built.

Its absolutely necessary for the future efficient movement of people and goods that do not need to be in Galway City and it is what the majority of people of Galway City also strongly want.

It will be built, 100%, all that setbacks like today do is increase the ultimate cost and that's in nobody's interest.

I would also expect an early move from the Galway representatives of serious political parties to make this project fit the existing Climate Plan as soon as possible.

This project is every bit as important as the M/N20.

Imeacht gan teacht ort

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119744691#Comment_119744691

Exactly.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119744691#Comment_119744691

lol, nope

Imeacht gan teacht ort

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119744702#Comment_119744702

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119744691#Comment_119744691

Why not? I think he makes some very valid points.

I'd be interested to know why you think otherwise.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119744702#Comment_119744702

Lol, yep.

Dry your eyes mate. You'll get your sustainable modes AND the GCRR.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119744734#Comment_119744734

Fair enough, I'll break it down

As soon as the Greens are out of Government, the Climate Action Plan must be amended to reflect the economic need for this bypass and have it built.

It won't be. All political parties signed off and voted to approve the plan in its current form, literally all of them. None are going to rewrite it for a moronic road that won't fix anything.

Its absolutely necessary for the future efficient movement of people and goods that do not need to be in Galway City

Nope, just need to free up capacity by removing the cars that don't need to be there by providing viable alternatives as listed in an earlier post. We see this daily from Athenry and Oranmore where hundreds park up and catch the train into Galway rather than drive. Same with the hugely successful 409 route which has set the template for how bus routes should be done in the city.

and it is what the majority of people of Galway City also strongly want.

No evidence exists to back that statement up

It will be built, 100%, all that setbacks like today do is increase the ultimate cost and that's in nobody's interest.

It's failed twice now and has been in the works for several decades. It's early days but I wouldn't be surprised if central govt just stopped funding it as its flogging a dead horse at this stage. In its current form this road can't pass the climate action plan

I would also expect an early move from the Galway representatives of serious political parties to make this project fit the existing Climate Plan as soon as possible.

Square peg, round hole

This project is every bit as important as the M/N20.

The M20 connects the 2nd and 3rd cities,there is no comparison as this is just 1960's era planning for a city i.e. Shown the world over to fail every.single.time

Aontachtoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119744691#Comment_119744691

Hear, hear. The only benefit to this shambles is that it adds even more evidence of how planning must be streamlined and environmentalism defanged when it comes to major infrastructure projects.

We still live in the real world, and those who pin their hopes on fantastic proposals (like ending private car access to Galway or turning over the city to bike and bus lanes - even after the revolt over a single cycle lane at Salthill) are simply not dealing with reality.

If we’re seriously going for a Dutch model, we need a high quality ring road before we get anywhere. Otherwise we’re not just putting the cart before the horse, we’re putting the cart in a field by itself and getting angry when it doesn’t move.

Larbre34

Careful now fellas, you'll only get another DaCor breakdown telling you why you're wrong!

Bless him, he doesn't comprehend that the real World is where the money and the decision makers reside.