Send in the Clowns - BAC 10K Challenge

Sosa

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I would've though that peaking at 63 miles per week is relatively low for a sub 2:50 marathon. For my next marathon I would hope to max at about 70mpw, and see how far that gets me. I don't think there's any substitute for doing long runs at marathon pace, or shorter runs at faster pace, and the more of them, the better prepared we'll be!

I reckon you could go lower on the same mileage KC,just alter the pace of the runs and bobs your uncle.
I went with 55-60 a week for the entire plan...no lead up to 60 just straight into it ( i had a good 3/4 months previous of at least 50 a week though ),the only diffference was the intensity picked up,not the mileage,even the taper was all about maintaining intensity while dropping the miles.

For my next one i will be doing the same plan,just pacing differently.

Out of curiosity,will you count up how many pmp miles you did throughout the program....i did 136 and i feel they were the best miles i did...will be bringing that up in the next one.

Krusty_Clown

Sosa wrote: »

Out of curiosity,will you count up how many pmp miles you did throughout the program....i did 136 and i feel they were the best miles i did...will be bringing that up in the next one.

You mean PMP and faster? Should I include long runs where I did some of the miles at PMP (like a progressive run)?
*Edit* I did 32 PMP miles, that's miles done in PMP sessions. I did do other faster miles, like tempo sessions, 5k intervals, and long runs where I picked up the pace to close to PMP.

Sosa

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

You mean PMP and faster? Should I include long runs where I did some of the miles at PMP (like a progressive run)?

Not faster,and yes on the second

Your mp was 6:20ish,so anything from 6:10....any lower and we are near tempo territory.

My 136 were miles from 6:35-6:45...i did others that were lower for intervals / tempos and the few races i had along the way.

Sosa

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

You mean PMP and faster? Should I include long runs where I did some of the miles at PMP (like a progressive run)?
*Edit* I did 32 PMP miles, that's miles done in PMP sessions. I did do other faster miles, like tempo sessions, 5k intervals, and long runs where I picked up the pace to close to PMP.

32...jesus i think i overdid it on the pmp miles,now i know why it all went so well,i ws full sure yowould have ben up around the same as me,i am surprised.

Krusty_Clown

Sosa wrote: »

32...jesus i think i overdid it on the pmp miles,now i know why it all went so well,i ws full sure yowould have ben up around the same as me,i am surprised.

Sorry, that count didn't include the miles from progression runs in the 6:05-6:30 pace area. That would bring it up to: 44 Miles. The rest of the mileage is either faster (tempo or intervals) or slower (aerobic / long run / recovery). Remember, the program I follow is a 12 week program, which only includes 4 pmp sessions:
15 Miles w/8@PMP
18 Miles w/10@PMP
18 Miles w/12@PMP
7 Miles w/2@PMP
Total = 32. The rest I added in myself into the long runs.

Sosa

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Sorry, that count didn't include the miles from progression runs in the 6:05-6:30 pace area. That would bring it up to: 44 Miles. The rest of the mileage is either faster (tempo or intervals) or slower (aerobic / long run / recovery). Remember, the program I follow is a 12 week program, which only includes 4 pmp sessions:
15 Miles w/8@PMP
18 Miles w/10@PMP
18 Miles w/12@PMP
7 Miles w/2@PMP
Total = 32. The rest I added in myself into the long runs.

I suppose its a bit easier to do pmp miles at 6:35-6:45 than 6:15ish,makes more sense now,and me saying that i would increase from 136 on my next marathon is probably speaking to soon as the pace would be much faster and probably not a good idea.
-Thanks

Krusty_Clown

Hi Sosa, I don't think the 6:15 to 6:30 were any harder than the 6:30-6:45, in the same way that 7:50 to 8:00 felt tough but manageable when I started out two years ago.

When I did the 12 mile PMP, it felt tough, but come race day, it just feels natural.

Macanri

Wow! Congratulations on a fantastic time. Great stuff altogether.

As Iozard said: When are you doing your first Sprint Tri? The cycling is good for recovery, but there's nothing like an easy swim for recovery:).

Well done again. Enjoy the lull between the next phase of training.

Krusty_Clown

Thanks Macanri. I'm actually on the lookout for an Ironman distance triathlon that doesn't have any swim or bike sections.

I went for an easy swim yesterday, and now have water painfully lodged in my ear canal. Any suggestions? That doesn't happen when I run!

tunguska

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Thanks Macanri. I'm actually on the lookout for an Ironman distance triathlon that doesn't have any swim or bike sections.

I went for an easy swim yesterday, and now have water painfully lodged in my ear canal. Any suggestions? That doesn't happen when I run!

Just lean over to one side and head bang till you feel the water dislodge. You'll have to do it while nobody else is around though, you'll look like space cadet otherwise. They sell ear plugs in boots that are specifically made for swimmers to prevent such things as blocked ear canals, be worth trying out.
I see talk of the next marathon has already begun. Im glad to hear it. Would you consider giving JDs Marathon program(program A) a shot? What about joining a club?

Macanri

tunguska wrote: »

Just lean over to one side and head bang till you feel the water dislodge. You'll have to do it while nobody else is around though, you'll look like space cadet otherwise.

+1 good advice.
This happens to me a bit but I usually get the water out shortly after getting out of the pool.
What I also do is, I lean my head over and pull the top part of my ear up with my hand (which seems to straighten out the ear canal) and then hop up and down slowly which kind of shunts the water out. As tunguska says - its not advisable to do this in public.

PS you never mentioned anything in your race report about your magic sunglasses!

Krusty_Clown

Macanri wrote: »

you never mentioned anything in your race report about your magic sunglasses!

Lol. I always run with sunglasses! They're actually to keep wind/rain/flies out of my eyes. I wouldn't feel whole without them at this stage!
Magic sun-glasses keeping me hovering above the ground after passing the Brandenburg gate (nearly home).

Krusty_Clown

tunguska wrote: »

Just lean over to one side and head bang till you feel the water dislodge. You'll have to do it while nobody else is around though, you'll look like space cadet otherwise. They sell ear plugs in boots that are specifically made for swimmers to prevent such things as blocked ear canals, be worth trying out.
I see talk of the next marathon has already begun. Im glad to hear it. Would you consider giving JDs Marathon program(program A) a shot? What about joining a club?

It seems to be further down the canal, as my jaw is sore now. Possible ear infection. Will definitely look out for the ear-plugs. Thanks.

I haven't seen JDs program but will buy the book now and check it out if you think it's worth it. Are they high mileage programs?

I am a member of a club! You mean jump ship and join another club? The only clubs in my area are Bray Runners and DSD. I'm not sure if the former would have marathoning as a goal (maybe beepbeep would know) and I'm not sure if the latter would have me. I'm also starting a new job next week that will have a lot of travel so I'm not sure how often I'd get to train with a club. Looking forward to going for a run in Yosemite National Park though!

seanynova

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I haven't seen JDs program but will buy the book now and check it out if you think it's worth it. Are they high mileage programs?

there are 2 marathon plans, one is for elites though, anyone could follow it at the correct pace and duration of intervals(not distanced based), but it would be very demanding!!!! plan A is probably the better option....

in plan A, you set the peak mileage yourself, and weekly mileage is a percentage of that week....typically 80% or 90%....
its a good programme, ive been following it and have seen vast improvements, its mainly all about tempo runs midweek and BIG weekend runs....there are 4 phases, phase 1 is base building, but you wouldnt need to do that id say....maybe 4weeks of 10k plan?

its a good read if not anything else....

yosimite NP would be a nice run!!

tunguska

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I haven't seen JDs program but will buy the book now and check it out if you think it's worth it. Are they high mileage programs?

I am a member of a club! You mean jump ship and join another club? The only clubs in my area are Bray Runners and DSD. I'm not sure if the former would have marathoning as a goal (maybe beepbeep would know) and I'm not sure if the latter would have me. I'm also starting a new job next week that will have a lot of travel so I'm not sure how often I'd get to train with a club. Looking forward to going for a run in Yosemite National Park though!

As seany said there are two programs: Program A and the elite program. The elite program is high mileage as theres a long run(20miles+)and two other big sessions of 22 miles each, per week. All other days are easy runs of about 10-12miles. So youre talking over 100miles/week.

Program A is a little less demanding and you could do it on 70miles/week, but not any less Id say. I mean youre at the 2:48 stage so to go better you'd be going 70miles+/week anyway. Its a great plan, broken down into 4 phases, each phase built upon the previous one, so its a well constructed schedule.
In regards to the club, you're more than welcome to join us. Brand spankin' new track and everything.

Krusty_Clown

Yesterday: Visit to the physio. Just a general sports massage to get me back in action as soon as possible, During the recent marathon I kicked my left shin with my right foot around 50 times during the raise, which left a big bruise/swelling, which is apparently a sign of tightness in the glutes and hip abductors, so as well as giving them a good stretch he also gave me some exercises that I must try and do. Felt a lot better after this, particularly as my ham-string pain was just a minor knot.

Krusty_Clown

Today: 9 Mile hilly sunny fun' runny.
Ear was still clogged up from Friday's swim, so the mp3 player was of no use, so headed off without tunes or HRM (which is about as naked as I get) with the plan to do 8 miles and enjoy them. At first the body felt stiff, but soon loosened up. Climbing up the second stretch of uphill towards Carrigologan the sun broke free of the clouds and it was just such a pleasure to be out running again, without a plan. I stopped at the top of the hill to enjoy the views over Dublin Bay before heading into Carrickgollogan (yes, I'm really digging Street view!) and doing a loop on the trails, before heading back down the hills to reality. The quads were quite stiff and sore on the downhills, but that is to be expected.

A lovely run on a lovely day, with no strides, no intervals, no purpose. Pfitzinger and Douglas, you can have all of my other runs; this one was for me.

Summary: 9 hilly miles in 1:09, @7:38/mile

aero2k

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Looking forward to going for a run in Yosemite National Park though!

I envy you that more than the 2:48!

I did get to spend some time there, driving, walking and even cycling (on the highest paved road in California, almost 10,000ft) but no running:( as it was before my born again runner days.

Think Phoenix park and Wicklow mountains all rolled into one and given a huge dose of steroids and you'll get some idea of it. Magnificent.

On JD, I'm also giving his programs serious consideration. I'm actually leaning towards the elite one, but substituting 6 mins running for every mile.

seanynova

aero2k wrote: »

On JD, I'm also giving his programs serious consideration. I'm actually leaning towards the elite one, but substituting 6 mins running for every mile.

there is a paragraph in that section regarding following his plans, a tempo mile is regarded as 4.5-5mins tempo running, MAR is 5min PMP.....the elite programme looks demanding but if you could do a mix of tempo/PMP for over 20miles they you would be away for slates in a marathon!!

aero2k

seanynova wrote: »

there is a paragraph in that section regarding following his plans, a tempo mile is regarded as 4.5-5mins tempo running, MAR is 5min PMP.....the elite programme looks demanding but if you could do a mix of tempo/PMP for over 20miles they you would be away for slates in a marathon!!

Yeah,

6 min is the equivalent of an "easy" mile!

I want to translate the program into minutes and type it out alongside the "A" program to compare. I can't give any scientific reason, but I think I might prefer the sessions as described. I think I'd also put a few recovery weeks in there.

Krusty_Clown

Today: 4 Mile recovery run
This one was more for the mind than the body. A wet cold dark night, that really signaled the start of winter training. Still, no complaints. It's good to be running.

Summary: 4 miles in 34 mins, @8:39/mile

BeepBeep67

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I am a member of a club! You mean jump ship and join another club? The only clubs in my area are Bray Runners and DSD. I'm not sure if the former would have marathoning as a goal (maybe beepbeep would know) and I'm not sure if the latter would have me.

There's probably more focussed on the marathon which can be frustrating this time of year when trying to assemble XC squads - most will have Dublin in their agenda.
Main benefit would be one to one sessions with a sub 2:15, level 3 coach, who could personalize some of your training and share experience.

Krusty_Clown

Thanks Beepbeep, Knew you'd come through for me. Do you know if there are runners targetting the 2:3x/low 2:40s? I see from the results page that Martin Francis is a regular sub-3 guy. Just wondering if there might be a few other like-minded runners aiming for a similar target early next year. Must join you guys for a run some time regardless.

aero2k

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

targetting the 2:3x/low 2:40s?

Jaysus Krusty,

Would you not wait for me to catch up before you go tearing off into the sunset?:D

Krusty_Clown

aero2k wrote: »

Jaysus Krusty,

Would you not wait for me to catch up before you go tearing off into the sunset?:D

I'm talking the long game. Building for a better future.

Tonight: 10 Mile hilly cycle, in 40 minutes, @23.8 km/hour

Oisin11178

Savage running man. Congrats on the pb in berlin. Just one question for you, what pace would you be doing tempo runs for a sub 3 attempt at the start of a long program of ~20 weeks?

Krusty_Clown

Oisin11178 wrote: »

Savage running man. Congrats on the pb in berlin. Just one question for you, what pace would you be doing tempo runs for a sub 3 attempt at the start of a long program of ~20 weeks?

Hi Oisin1178, running according to P&D, I'd be running them at approximately 15k - half marathon pace, so around 6:20 - 6:29/mile for a 2:59 marathon. Sessions would typically be 8 miles w/4@tempo, 9 miles w/5@tempo, 10w/6@tempo. That'd be typical of the 12 week program. For a longer program, you could probably stick with the same tempo sessions for a couple of weeks and increase the spread (i.e. 3 miles - 8 miles @tempo pace).

Oisin11178

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Hi Oisin1178, running according to P&D, I'd be running them at approximately 15k - half marathon pace, so around 6:20 - 6:29/mile for a 2:59 marathon. Sessions would typically be 8 miles w/4@tempo, 9 miles w/5@tempo, 10w/6@tempo. That'd be typical of the 12 week program. For a longer program, you could probably stick with the same tempo sessions for a couple of weeks and increase the spread (i.e. 3 miles - 8 miles @tempo pace).

Excellent thanks bud.

Krusty_Clown

Today: 9 Mile trail run along the new Dublin Mountain Way
I have a couple of days off as I finished up one job yesterday and am starting the next job on Monday, so took the opportunity to run the new Way-marked Dublin Mountain Way. Ok, so I've run nearly every single stretch on this route many times before, but this time it was different. It had sign-posts (though I still managed to miss the correct route several times). I packed my trail shoes and a second GPS into a backpack (GPS was to map the route for OpenStreetMaps) and hit the trail, which starts with a sub-urban stroll around the village of Shankill. Up the riverbed (which used to be a mud-bath, but has been wonderfully managed by the Mountain Meitheal guys), and into Rathmichael Wood, Carrigologan and finally the Scalp. Missed a few signposts and ended up wandering up and down goat trails, before finding the right path to my destination. A quick breather and I ran the correct route backwards, in a bit of a rush as I had to pick up my little 'un from school. A lovely run, and a lovely trail. Didn't need the trail shoes in the end, as it's all training shoe'able. Looking forward to running the entire Dublin Mountain Way one of these days. Good ultra training me thinks.

Summary: 9.7 traily miles in 1:21 @9:06/mile.

aero2k

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I'm talking the long game. Building for a better future.

You left out "going forward".:D