Send in the Clowns - BAC 10K Challenge

TRR

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Jesus... I'm so sorry.. I didn't know.. Is there anything we can do for you? Just bear-up man. Try and hold it together. You've got to think positive thoughts and just focus on the fact that someday, you'll be over all of this and you'll be healthy once again. Maybe. Be strong. You're in our prayers.

+1
Indeed I've just lit a candle for you digger.

Stay strong men, you can get through it. Obviously it's 100 times more painful than child labor but you will get through it with the grace of God. Recent medical advances in Lemsip and paracetamol now mean it is possible to live with this deadly male killer virus.

ecoli

@digger Fair play to you for managing to soldier to the computer but seriously you need to conserve you energy if you are to have any chance of making it through

Your in all our thoughts

Gringo78

Just as a matter of curiosity, did you get the Winter Flu vaccine? I got it this year for the first time and so far it seems to have worked as by now I'd usually have had a couple of bouts of flus/sore throats/colds etc but so far nothing (touch wood). Got a 24 hour vomiting bug just after christmas which was actually no bad thing post christmas in the twisted mind of a runner...bit like a crash diet.

pistol_75

digger2d2 wrote: »

Krusty, I'm glad to see there is escape from the man flu as I've been suffering with it for a couple of weeks. If women could actually understand the severity of this hideous dose they'd be amazed at how we managed not to lose limbs

Glad to see you were still able to swamp a few pints on Sat night :eek:

Seriously though I'm looking forward to your 90 mile comeback week ala Krusty

Krusty_Clown

Gringo78 wrote: »

Just as a matter of curiosity, did you get the Winter Flu vaccine? I got it this year for the first time and so far it seems to have worked as by now I'd usually have had a couple of bouts of flus/sore throats/colds etc but so far nothing (touch wood). Got a 24 hour vomiting bug just after christmas which was actually no bad thing post christmas in the twisted mind of a runner...bit like a crash diet.

Nope, I didn't this year. Usually my GP would suggest it for both my daughter and I (as we are both asthmatics), but I hadn't been to see the doc in a long time, until the point where I was actually suffering (which is probably too late). Will give it serious consideration next year, if only to avoid the situation that poor Digger is in at the moment, lying on the altar between life and death, with his foot on the first rung of Jacob's ladder.

claralara

Hi all, digdig asked me to pass on his thanks for all the good wishes as he is too sick to get to the laptop. The nurse is hooking him up to the IV at the moment and if the fluids revive him sufficiently he will thank you all personally. I for one would like to thank the virus for forcing me to learn my way around the kitchen and fend for myself.

digger2d2

Thanks all for your kind words and for having me in your thoughts. Things were looking pretty bad for me earlier this evening but the priest has left now so I'm taking that as a good sign. I'm not out of the woods yet but with time and your prayers I hope to make a recovery of some sort.

Krusty_Clown

I wanted to keep this training log as a shrine.... You know... Just in case the worst came to the worst. But, given that, against the odds, Digger seems to be making a full recovery, it's high time that we pulled ourselves together and started getting on with our lives. Things will never be the way they were, but for his sake and for the sake of all man-flu sufferers around the world, we have to show a brave face and put the right foot forward. We will triumph over this illness. We will survive.

Monday: 5.5 recovery + 5.5 easy
Freezing cold lunch-time miserable recovery run in the field across from work. I had a sore foot from the previous day's session (and previous week's mileage), but the soggy water from the pitch was like an ice bath, so it may have helped. Followed up with an easy run home.
Summary: 5.5 miles @7:53 and 5.5 miles @7:11

Tuesday: 5.5 recovery + 6 easy + 5.5 easy
Hadn't planned on doing a triple run (evinced by the fact that I had to wear the same soggy pair of socks three times, ugh), but given the icy conditions, taking the motorcycle to work wasn't a very sensible option. Running wasn't much better, but I had to get to work somehow. Also headed out with Keith123 at lunch-time for an easy 6 miles, to pick up some carbs, and finished up with an easy slippy icy run home.
Summary: 5.65 miles @7:50 + 6 miles @7:22 + 5.63 miles @7:20

Wednesday: 10 miles with 6 x 1 mile @Tempo/1 minute rest
I had planned to do this run at lunch-time, but work demands dictated otherwise. I didn't get out until 6:30pm, at which stage it was very dark and pretty damned cold. Not as bad as the last few days, but the temperature was dropping. An easy 2 mile warm-up and I was amazed by the number of runners I passed in both directions along Ballyogan Road. It has become a mecca for runners (or else there's a meet and train group that uses one of the loops in the area). I had several layers on to shield myself against the cold, but when I arrived at the entrance to the race-course, I stashed them, and stood around looking very foolish in a very light t-shirt and a skimpy pair of shorts. No hanging around, I did a quick stretch and got stuck into the tempo repeats.

Planned pace: 5:40 - 5:50/mile
Actual pace: 5:39 / 5:41 / 5:41 / 5:38 / 5:41 / 5:40

Even with just a rest period of a minute, it was freezing cold. I could have worn two t-shirts as I did for Sunday's session, but it had been like scraping cheese-graters up and down my nips and I didn't feel like going through that experience again. There were small streams running across the path I was using that were literally turning to ice as I ran up and down. I tried to run on the road, but I had to hop onto the path every time a car came (if there's ever a race with 8 inch hurdles, I'll be sorted). Anyway, they started tough; the one minute recoveries disappeared instantaneously and they got tougher as time went on. No change there then. I remember these being easier.
Summary: 10.15 miles @6:37/mile

ASIMON0V

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Planned pace: 5:40 - 5:50/mile
Actual pace: 5:39 / 5:41 / 5:41 / 5:38 / 5:41 / 5:40

nice work off 1' min recovery - your christmas hiatus will soon be forgotten.

Krusty_Clown

ASIMON0V wrote: »

nice work off 1' min recovery - your christmas hiatus will soon be forgotten.

Ah yeah cheers. I have Dungarvan 10 mile on Sunday, and was hoping to do it at around 5:45/mile for a 57:30~ish time, but at the moment, that seems like a long way off! Don't suppose you're headed down that direction?

Rolex_

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Ah yeah cheers. I have Dungarvan 10 mile on Sunday, and was hoping to do it at around 5:45/mile for a 57:30~ish time, but at the moment, that seems like a long way off! Don't suppose you're headed down that direction?

What's your race number? I'll watch out for you and try say hello. I'm hamstrung so not racing but will go down to support the missus who is

ASIMON0V

stick a race number on you and those 5:45 miles will be grand. no i'm not heading down - i'm cramming mileage for donadea so have a lovely hard tempo saturday / long run sunday planned - and then ikea wardrobe assembly for the afternoon.

Abhainn

Yes great 6 x 1. Good on you. You should feel confident of achieving your Dungarvan target.
Enjoy and is there any chance of you attaching my race no. to your back or something?

Krusty_Clown

Rolex_ wrote: »

What's your race number? I'll watch out for you and try say hello. I'm hamstrung so not racing but will go down to support the missus who is

Can't remember. Something like 1223. I'll be in a Sli Cualann singlet (of which you can see many examples here, with vertical orange stripes). Pop by and say hello!

Asimonov wrote:

no i'm not heading down - i'm cramming mileage for donadea so have a lovely hard tempo saturday / long run sunday planned - and then ikea wardrobe assembly for the afternoon.

Sure I'll see you there so! I'll be sticking pretty rigidly to 6:50-7:00/mile, so I doubt I'll see you for very long.

Abhainn wrote:

Yes great 6 x 1. Good on you. You should feel confident of achieving your Dungarvan target. Enjoy and is there any chance of you attaching my race no. to your back or something?

Cheers, but does that mean that you're not going to make it? That injury still plaguing you?

Rolex_

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Can't remember. Something like 1223. I'll be in a Sli Cualann singlet (of which you can see many examples here, with vertical orange stripes). Pop by and say hello!


Sure I'll see you there so! I'll be sticking pretty rigidly to 6:50-7:00/mile,

Cheers will do, I presume you meant 5:50-6:00 per mile?

Abhainn

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Cheers, but does that mean that you're not going to make it? That injury still plaguing you?

No won't be there. First DNS
If I can run 10k on Sunday at any pace without any pain / discomfort I'll be very happy

Krusty_Clown

Rolex_ wrote: »

Cheers will do, I presume you meant 5:50-6:00 per mile?

I was actually referring to Donadea 50k, so certainly not 5:50-6:00 per mile!

Abhainn wrote:

No won't be there. First DNS

Sorry to hear that Joe. Sounds like we're taking turns. Hopefully your ills clear up as quickly as mine did.

ASIMON0V

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Sure I'll see you there so! I'll be sticking pretty rigidly to 6:50-7:00/mile, so I doubt I'll see you for very long.

i'm in no state to race a 50k, am only starting to get back into some kind of decent shape now ...so 7 minute-ish miles sound like a grand day out. See you up there.

@joe - hope you get back right soon.

Oregano_State

Bit off-topic, but out of interest, what's the difference between a 'recovery' run and and an 'easy' run?

I assumed up to now that a recovery run was just an easy run that was done the day after a hard tempo/interval session, or a race?

I await enlightenment...:)

Krusty_Clown

Oregano_State wrote: »

Bit off-topic, but out of interest, what's the difference between a 'recovery' run and and an 'easy' run?

I assumed up to now that a recovery run was just an easy run that was done the day after a hard tempo/interval session, or a race?

I await enlightenment...:)

Well, at the moment I'm running off Jack Daniels definitions, where an easy run is based on one's VDOT. For me (VDOT between 60 and 61), an easy run is: 7:16 - 7:22/mile. The Jack Daniels marathon plans are typically made up of 2-3 'sessions' per week, and the rest of the mileage is easy. So for me, an easy run is typically anything between 7:00/mile and 7:20/mile. Jack Daniels plans of course don't really use or define recovery runs, but I do 'em anyway.

For me a recovery run is any run where you are basically trotting (preferably on a yielding surface) at an extremely comfortable pace and is purely for the purpose of recovering from a session. I find 'em particularly handy when doing higher mileage (70+ miles per week) the day after a session, and on a double day, where the other run will be easy. I tend not to worry about pace any more (other than for the key sessions), but my runs will naturally gravitate to either 'easy' or 'recovery' based on what my legs actually need.

Pfitizinger and Douglas (P&D) use somewhat different definitions (often determined by heart rate). For example recovery would be 76% of your maximal HR, or 70% of your HR reserve, while general aerobic runs (slightly different to JD's easy runs), would be 15%-25% slower than marathon pace (so 7:06-7:43/mile in my case). Like I said, I don't focus too much on the numbers. Easy feels very easy, recovery is so slow that it feels like you are gaining energy rather than losing it and hard is damn hard!

Krusty_Clown

Today (afternoon): 4 mile recovery
As if to prove the point, went for an easy 4 mile recovery run in the nearby field, with a brief stop in the shops to grab some lunch.
Summary: 4 miles in 31 mins, @7:53/mile

Today (evening): Fit4Life 2 mile race
I kind of knew I wouldn't be at my best, the day after a session and a few afternoon miles, but the goal was just to have a bit of a blow-out, a bit of fun, and get a bit of race practice. Just before the start, I bumped into a clubbie (Neal) who is a solid runner (2:39 in Dublin) so figured he'd be at the point end of the race. As we lined-up, I spotted Timmay, who'd definitely figure on the podium, but didn't know too many other runners on the pointy end. I figured if I could keep Neal and Timmay in sight, I'd be doing well. The race is 1 mile slightly down-hill, followed by a second mile uphill and into the wind.

As the race kicked off, Neal moved to the front, and Timmay chased him down. I was in 3rd place, with a couple of runners tucking in behind me. As we neared the turnabout point, a runner behind me pushed on a little and I gave chase. I was comfortable enough on the downhill mile, so perhaps I should have pushed on a bit, but with Neal and Timmay just 20 feet ahead, there didn't seem to be anything to be gained. A runner in high-viz up ahead turned out to be the turnabout point, so we slammed on the breaks and started back the way we came, staying clear of the runners still progressing towards the mid-point.

I was doing ok in the early parts of the second mile, and managed to close the distance between me and Timmay, and even managed to pass him briefly as we hit the 1.5 mile mark, temporarily moving into second place. The other two runners had dropped into my shadow to take advantage of the wind-break. Timmay started to pull away again, and it was just me and my chaser (the other runner having fallen away). I'd been told that we didn't run all the way back to the start line, so when I saw two women in High-viz vests up ahead, I figured that it must be the finish line. I picked up the pace to shake off my pursuer to prevent a last sprint-off, only to realize too late that the two ladies up ahead were walking towards us, with dogs in tow. I was immediately beaten, both mentally and physically, and fourth place passed me and became third place. As we neared the real finish line, we all picked up the pace, with Timmay making a strong (but late) challenge, but the finishing places remained unchanged.

I finished in a slightly disappointing 4th place (ever the bridesmaid, never the bride), in around 10:54, with around 10 seconds splitting the top 4. Prior to the race, I'd have been happy enough with 10:50, so not too far out, but it was the mental quitting that bothered me. I'm missing a bit of sharpness (ability to suffer) that will hopefully come with a few more sessions and build-up races. Finished up with an easy 2.5 miles with Neal afterwards, to make around 9.7 miles for the day.
Summary: 2 miles in ~10:54, @~5.27/mile and lots of other miles

Dory Dory

4th place? Missing sharpness?? Bridesmaid? (there's that women's clothing theme again) The scars of the wretched man-flu no doubt.

(congrats - you still rock! )

drquirky

Once again a fantastic race report. Good running but tbh I was saying to Ecoli on the track yesterday, I'd read your log even if your running sucked- your writing is always exceptional. I mean this with total sincerity- you should write a book.

TRR

The truth is out there what we all knew to be true has been confirmed.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health-fitness/scientists-confirm-man-flu-exists/story-fneuzlbd-1226561786289

Rolex_

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Well, at the moment I'm running off Jack Daniels definitions, where an easy run is based on one's VDOT. For me (VDOT between 60 and 61), an easy run is: 7:16 - 7:22/mile. The Jack Daniels marathon plans are typically made up of 2-3 'sessions' per week, and the rest of the mileage is easy. So for me, an easy run is typically anything between 7:00/mile and 7:20/mile. Jack Daniels plans of course don't really use or define recovery runs, but I do 'em anyway.

Thanks for the link. If I'm reading that right Daniels recommends 90 mins or 16 miles @ PMP every week, with PMP based on a recent completed race at a shorter distance.

Sounds very tough - effectively a half marathon at marathon race pace every week? Or am I reading it wrong?

Krusty_Clown

Rolex_ wrote: »

Thanks for the link. If I'm reading that right Daniels recommends 90 mins or 16 miles @ PMP every week, with PMP based on a recent completed race at a shorter distance.

Sounds very tough - effectively a half marathon at marathon race pace every week? Or am I reading it wrong?

I think you may be interpreting what is on the web-page as a training plan (which it isn't). I linked to it, as it is a handy mechanism to calculate your VDOT and associated training paces. If you want to see his training plans, best thing is to check out the book, or search for the plans online (I scanned them in from the book for personal use, as I don't carry the book around with me all of the time!).

I don't think there is mention of running 90 minutes at PMP every week (unless I've missed it). I think what you are looking at is a maximum. So what it is actually saying is:
If you are doing a marathon pace session (as dictated in one of the Jack Daniels plans) then the maximum length marathon pace session (at the prescribed pace) is 90 minutes or 16 miles (whichever is the lesser amount). It must be said though that there are some sessions in the Elite plan that would make a 16 mile PMP run feel like a jog in the park. For example:
8 miles easy +
8 miles marathon pace +
1 mile tempo pace +
4 miles marathon pace +
1 mile tempo pace +
1 mile marathon pace

I'm kind of glad I stuck to the Plan A this time around.

RunningKing

Just started a new book today "Send in the clowns - BAC 10k Challenge" by K.Clown

I'm on Page 18 (of 376) - 'the formative years' as I like to refer to them as.

A good read so far - I'll let you know how he gets on.

Krusty_Clown

RunningKing wrote: »

A good read so far - I'll let you know how he gets on.

Jaysus, you should probably just skip to the end. In fact, skip past the end and find something with a happy ending.
I don't have a good feeling about this particular journey.

Rolex_

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I think you may be interpreting what is on the web-page as a training plan (which it isn't). I linked to it, as it is a handy mechanism to calculate your VDOT and associated training paces. If you want to see his training plans, best thing is to check out the book, or search for the plans online (I scanned them in from the book for personal use, as I don't carry the book around with me all of the time!).

I don't think there is mention of running 90 minutes at PMP every week (unless I've missed it). I think what you are looking at is a maximum. So what it is actually saying is:
If you are doing a marathon pace session (as dictated in one of the Jack Daniels plans) then the maximum length marathon pace session (at the prescribed pace) is 90 minutes or 16 miles (whichever is the lesser amount). It must be said though that there are some sessions in the Elite plan that would make a 16 mile PMP run feel like a jog in the park. For example:
8 miles easy +
8 miles marathon pace +
1 mile tempo pace +
4 miles marathon pace +
1 mile tempo pace +
1 mile marathon pace

I'm kind of glad I stuck to the Plan A this time around.

Thanks for that. Daniels = clearly not for the faint-hearted!

Krusty_Clown

Rolex_ wrote: »

Thanks for that. Daniels = clearly not for the faint-hearted!

The Elite plan is definitely not for the faint-hearted, and the minimum mileage heading into the elite plan is recommended at about 90 miles per week, so you'd likely be doing the above session in the midst of a 100+ mile week. The 'Plan A', which I am currently following, is a lot more approachable. The sessions are still very tough, with a lot of focus on Threshold pace and marathon pace, but still not a patch on the Elite plan.

Comparing it to P&D yields some interesting results. The last time I followed a P&D plan, I was doing a lot of the sessions at around 5:20/mile or faster (Vo2max sessions), whereas the JD Plan A has very few sessions that involve doing any mileage faster than 5:40 - 5:50/mile. The focus of Plan A seems to be a lot of long runs including sections at marathon and tempo pace, while P&D rarely combines different types of running in the same session (one session for Vo2max, one for LT, one for long runs, etc.). I'm thinking that switching from one type of plan to the other for subsequent marathon regimes might provide the broadest level of improvement. Thumbing through the Elite plan, I reckon it's the kind of plan I would only ever get one shot at and would require total commitment.