Send in the Clowns - BAC 10K Challenge

Krusty_Clown

Today: 1 hour easy run

Well, after an absence of three years, it's great to be back working on 'southie again. Celebrated with an easy loop, taking in Leopardstown, Lamb's Cross and Kilternan before heading back via Carrickmines. Hills! I had forgotten what they were like. Two years of Clondalkin's gentle drags and rises has made me soft. Look forward to running some decent hills once this marathon deed is done. Legs and body feeling good, but still the odd knee twinge and some bruising on my foot, suggesting that I did some damage on Sunday. An easy 60 miles this week and 40 or so next week should see all that repaired.

Summary: 8.59 miles in 60 mins, @7:00/mile

RacoonQueen

New job?

Krusty_Clown

RacoonQueen wrote: »

New job?

Nope, same job, same company, just less Clondalkin'ish and a runnable distance from home. Happy out.

Dory Dory

Krusty, you have got to see about getting your own hay bales to hurdle. Post marathon, come see me.

Krusty_Clown

I would do, but my garden isn't quite as big as yours. I could probably fit one in a pinch but the feral cats and latest addition to the pet farm (George) wouldn't be too happy about it.

average_runner

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I would do, but my garden isn't quite as big as yours. I could probably fit one in a pinch but the feral cats and latest addition to the pet farm (George) wouldn't be too happy about it.

At least i am not the only one that has one of them!! Also have 2 frogs in back garden but no pond anywhere!!!! Keep coming back every year!

Krusty_Clown

average_runner wrote: »

At least i am not the only one that has one of them!! Also have 2 frogs in back garden but no pond anywhere!!!! Keep coming back every year!

Have you considered feeding the frogs to your hedgehog? Survival of the prickliest.

Today: Lazy 8 mile recovery run
Doing a bit of exploring around the local area, finding new potential haunts for recovery runs, intervals, strides and identifying short-cuts from one neighbourhood to the next. Found some good tarmac for shorter intervals (400m) but need to find something a little longer (1-3 miles), though now that I've moved a little further south, I might finally be able to make some of the club's track sessions (doubt it though). Kept the pace very easy, to try get some of those niggles cleared up. Core and weights tonight, and tempo session tomorrow.

Summary: 8.26 miles in 1:05, @8:01/mile

Dory Dory

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I would do, but my garden isn't quite as big as yours. I could probably fit one in a pinch but the feral cats and latest addition to the pet farm (George) wouldn't be too happy about it.

That George is a real cutie pie!!!! (He's a little noisy when he eats, though...) So, you have hedgehogs just wandering about?? Folks here pay good money for them at pet stores.

Krusty_Clown

Dory Dory wrote: »

That George is a real cutie pie!!!! (He's a little noisy when he eats, though...) So, you have hedgehogs just wandering about?? Folks here pay good money for them at pet stores.

I'll start shipping them to you in boxes. Do you mind a few fleas?

They are everywhere, but it's quite rare that you would see them (unless you count hedgehogs squished on the road) as they're shy and nocturnal (but then you'd know that already!). Quite rare to have them visit your back-garden, hop onto the cat-food tray and start crunching away, while the cats look on in bewilderment. I understand that once they start to visit though, they are likely to come back. This is the second time we've seen George in a week, and I reckon I saw the same critter sitting on our front doorstep a year ago.

PaulieC

Where have you moved to ? I presume you mean work ?

Krusty_Clown

cambo_gueno wrote: »

Where have you moved to ? I presume you mean work ?

Yep, work has moved to Carrickmines. It's still all very fresh and new. The best running road is unfortunately directly outside my office. Sounds great, but the idea of doing repeats and intervals up and down outside my office like a lunatic, while everyone I work with looks on in bemusement, just isn't that appealing! Given the amount of material, eventually, there would be photographs and youtube videos.

BeepBeep67

Not sure the full distance - maybe 1.2k or more, but there's a nice stretch for intervals along the relief road into Westwood and you used to be able to run around parts of the Golf/Race course.

Marthastew

Dory Dory wrote: »

That George is a real cutie pie!!!! (He's a little noisy when he eats, though...) So, you have hedgehogs just wandering about?? Folks here pay good money for them at pet stores.

George is adorable:) I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that a hedgehog arriving in your garden is a sign that massive PBs are about to be set:D*

*ok, I made that up but I'm at that stage in my non-existent marathon training plan where everything can be interpreted as a good omen, I'd kill for a hedgehog... Send him over my direction please

PaulieC

You're also right beside the mile of pleasure that is the glenamuck road

Peckham

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

need to find something a little longer (1-3 miles),

Not sure if it's accessible without trespassing, but isn't there a road/track running around the circumference of Leopardstown racecourse that the ambulances etc. use on raceday? You could use this.

Looks like you're going great guns at the moment. Will be there on Monday week to roar you along Shelbourne Road.

Krusty_Clown

Peckham wrote: »

Not sure if it's accessible without trespassing, but isn't there a road/track running around the circumference of Leopardstown racecourse that the ambulances etc. use on raceday? You could use this.

Looks like you're going great guns at the moment. Will be there on Monday week to roar you along Shelbourne Road.

Cool. Will keep an eye out for a way in (ninja style). Need something flatter than the current short-list of roads I have for intervals!

Krusty_Clown

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Not sure the full distance - maybe 1.2k or more, but there's a nice stretch for intervals along the relief road into Westwood and you used to be able to run around parts of the Golf/Race course.

I know this road well, as it's a part of my regular long run route, so I have already built up a certain amount of animosity towards it, as it has a nice drag, which is typically coupled with a juicy head-wind and half way into a marathon pace run, it's a bit of a b1tch. Didn't stop me doing today's session on it though (and now I hate it even more).

Pronator

Track close to Cabinteely or there it a 1.2k loop close to this that I have used and its pretty flat. Come January ill be on track on Tuesday's at lunchtime if I don't have company for the club session in Greystones that evening.

Thursday will be something similar.

Krusty_Clown

Today: Jack Daniels 3 x 2 Miles @Tempo

Looking at today's planned session in the Jack Daniels A Plan, I can't help but think it's a copy and paste error. It's a repeat of a session two weeks earlier, which has two 15-20 minute tempo sections and two long easy runs, bringing it up to 19+ miles (which would be 1/3rd of my weekly mileage). So I dipped into the Elite plan, where the associated session is less demanding in terms of overall mileage, but has a little more intensity. The plan calls for 3 x 2 miles @Tempo, with 2 mins easy running. Give that I haven't been doing the other Elite plan sessions, I decided to rest for the 2 mins between intervals instead of running easy.

I considered doing the session on Ballyogan Road (just outside my office) so I headed off and did my two mile warm-up, but soon realized that the hill (more of a rise really) just wouldn't make for a good tempo session as the distribution of effort would just be too great on the uphill part and too easy on the downhill. So instead I headed down to the slip-road to the back of the race-course. It's a private road, but it's relatively quiet, with just a few mummies in their 4x4's honking in frustration if you choose to run in the gutter instead of the concrete path. I know I shouldn't be on the road, but in my defense, I hug the kerb and it's an empty road with three lanes (an empty lane in the middle that cars on either side of the road can move into) and I don't present any different of an obstacle to a cyclist, but still the mummies in their 4x4s feel the need to tell you that you're occupying their space and should be on the concrete footpath. /rant over.

This road isn't great for tempo-paced miles either, as it too has a rise up to the race-course, but thankfully on this particular day the wind was behind me for the first uphill mile and head-on for the second half of the downhill tempo section so the effort was pretty even. That's not to say that it was easy. It was only during the warm-down that I realized that this is like a very challenging version of the penultimate MacMillan best 10k workouts, with only two minutes rest instead of MacMillan's prescribed 5 minutes, and my pace was only a couple of beats off of 10k pace. So some positive things to be inferred from that. I still need to find some good flat road, but with only one short session remaining until the marathon, the hurry isn't as great.

2.47 Mile warm-up: in 17:47, @7:12/mile
Tempo 1: 2 miles in 11:30 @5:45/mile
Tempo 2: 2 miles in 11:20 @5:40/mile
Tempo 3: 2 miles in 11:18 @5:40/mile
2 Mile Warm-down: in 15:06, @7:33/mile.

Summary: 10.70 miles fast.

BeepBeep67

How long was the slip road - looks longer than my guesstimate?

Krusty_Clown

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

How long was the slip road - looks longer than my guesstimate?

Yeah, it was about right. You could stretch it to a mile, but you'd need to start closer to the roundabout on one end, and run into the racecourse HQ on the other end and run the risk of earning the wrath of the security folks.

Krusty_Clown

Friday: 7 miles easy
First run-mute home from the new office. Strapped on a small-backpack full of my work clothes and hit the road taking a detour via Kilbogget to bring the run up to 7 miles. The trip home isn't too bad with a nice downhill to start with, but could feel the additional weight of the bag (5 lbs) on the legs. Will have to work on the logistics so I don't have to carry as many clothes on my run.
Summary: 7 miles in 51:38, @7:21/mile

This morning: 8.6 miles easy
I don't do taper very well. I'm like a reformed smoker, trying to figure out what to do with their hands. My legs were a little stiff this morning (either from Thursday's session or the 7 mile run carrying an extra few kilos; not sure which) so I planned an easy 6 mile recovery run. Screwed up that plan and ended up running 8.6 miles with a tasty climb over Killiney Hill. Must stick to plan next week. Followed up with core and weights.
Summary: 8.6 miles in 65 mins, @7:36/mile

Dory Dory

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

The trip home isn't too bad with a nice downhill to start with, but could feel the additional weight of the bag (5 lbs) on the legs. Will have to work on the logistics so I don't have to carry as many clothes on my run.

How few clothes do you think you could get away with wearing at work?

Krusty_Clown

Dory Dory wrote: »

How few clothes do you think you could get away with wearing at work?

Anything less than this, and they tend to protest a little.

Dory Dory

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Anything less than this, and they tend to protest a little.

Well, at least you know your upper and lower parameters.

Krusty_Clown

Today: 90 minute easy run
No real running goal today other than spend 90 minute on my feet, so it was a perfect opportunity to join the Sli Cualann club-mates for an easy run, which was in Djouce Woods this weekend; just a 15 minute drive away. Arrived there in plenty time, and met up with Pre and Timmaay and a number of other clubbies all heading out at different paces. Nice undulating route with some very mucky stretches and spectacular views of Crone Wood and Powerscourt Waterfall. My white mizuno precisions will never look the same again. After two laps of the Earl's Drive route, most runners had had enough, so I headed out onto the road on my own to finish off the remaining 20 minutes. The pace was easy, but the hills, twists and turns made for a good physical workout. Once home, I finished up with a 5 minute plank, to tick off my three core workouts for the week. Going for a swim shortly, but it'll be more of a splash about and a stretch than a proper swim (if I'm allowed!).

Summary: 11.49 miles in 1:33, @8:03/mile

myflipflops

I'm sure you have mentioned it plenty of times but what is the goal pace for Dublin?

average_runner

Hi Krusty;

Just reading the Daniels book again. Looking at the vdot table, did the times for marathon compare to your vdot for 10k look quiet tough and out of reach.

Was looking at mine which is a vdot of 46 for my 10k time but it has a 3.24 for a marathon. Cant ever see me doing that


Also was thinking of trying the 5-15k plan but its 25 weeks long, the base i can cut out as have that from dublin, but is this plan a bit long for a 10K or is just something i should follow for the 20-25 weeks? Also planning on doing new york next year so worried about the 5-15k plan for the first half of the year.

Thanks a mill for any input you have.

Krusty_Clown

myflipflops wrote: »

I'm sure you have mentioned it plenty of times but what is the goal pace for Dublin?

The goal pace is 6:09/mile (3:49/km) for a target of 2:41:08. The number is actually my current vdot equivalent of my 10k/half marathon etc. It's an arbitrary number, as good as any other number, it's just faster than my goal pace from my previous two marathon outings, so the real goal is just to crack 2:42 and take whatever else I can get (if it's on offer!). I'm not too concerned about pace on the day either. I tend to run faster or slower depending on how things are going at that particular time, so I'll check my splits every few miles to see how I'm tracking.

Krusty_Clown

average_runner wrote: »

Hi Krusty;

Just reading the Daniels book again. Looking at the vdot table, did the times for marathon compare to your vdot for 10k look quiet tough and out of reach.

Ask me again in seven days time! Runners have very different perceptions when it comes to the vdot (or Macmillan) tables, depending on where their strengths lie. Some people will plug-in their 10k time and see a marathon time that they just don't believe they can achieve. Others will enter their marathon time and wonder how they could possibly achieve such an aggressive 10k time. But the answer is that the vdot tables don't give you anything other than suggested training paces. They don't guarantee finishing times. Rather, they are a starting point. You plug in your 10k time, and it gives you appropriate training paces for following one of the plans. As you progress through that training plan, you run tune-up races and based on the results of these races you update your vdot and get new training paces. At the end of the day, it's not a finish time predictor; just a training aid.

To illustrate this point:
If I had finished my Lakes 10k in a time of: 34:53, I would have a vdot of 60 and a predicted marathon finish time of 2:43:25 (PMP = 6:14/mile)
But I actually finished in 34:51, which is a vdot of 61 and a predicted marathon finish time of 2:41:08 (PMP = 6:09/mile)

What could that two second difference in finishing times represent? A small hill. An open shoe-lace. A bad racing line on a corner. A congested start. A brief head-wind. An inaccurate chip-timing system. You just can't read these things as gospel and instead need to apply some common sense. In my case, I ran a 16 mile race at marathon pace 4/5 weeks ago (on the back of a 90 mile week) and the pace was comfortable enough, so that was the tip of the hat I needed to say that the pace is appropriate for my current level of fitness. Will I go faster than that? Slower than that? Again, ask me next week!

average_runner wrote: »

Also was thinking of trying the 5-15k plan but its 25 weeks long, the base i can cut out as have that from dublin, but is this plan a bit long for a 10K or is just something i should follow for the 20-25 weeks? Also planning on doing new york next year so worried about the 5-15k plan for the first half of the year.

I'm far from an expert, and have only been dabbling on the light side of Jack Daniels for the last three months. Tunguska seems to know a lot more about JD plans, so it would be worth dropping him a PM. On the other hand, spending the first half of next year on a 5-15k plan, sounds like perfect setup for New York in October! Hammer out some good times in everything from 5k to 10 miles and then kick-off your marathon plan. Perfect planning!