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How do you perceive the overall work of the Gardai

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    #182
    Eru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,357 ✭✭✭Eru


    tallaght01 wrote: »
    The_nog is right. Discourtesy is people's biggets problem with gardai. If people liked them, you wouldn't be here explaining about how you have to spend5 hours int he courts, rather than the cop shop.

    People like nurses and junior doctors, for example. That's because they have a rep of being friendly to people when they're at their most vulnerable, as oposed to the gardai who have a tendency towards rudeness.

    People accept mistakes from junior docs/nurses. They get annoyed at the conditions they work under.

    If the gardai were nicer to people, the public would be more tolerant, and owuld be more sympathetic regarding issues of poor management.

    That's my take on it anyway.


    Were explaining the situation to you because your showing less understanding to us than we do to health service workers despite the fact that a doctor or nurse should realise the reality of working in the public sector and not having adequate funding or equipment. And according to the official survey and Nogs, people DO have faith and trust in us.

    Its also folly to believe a smiling Garda asking Mr Scumbag to "move along now please sir" is going to have any effect other than make him laugh. Compare a Garda dealing with a criminal to a doctor dealiing with a patient, thats hardly equal now is it? You offer treatment and if they refuse then they leave and if they complain you call us to arrest them. Which guaranteed, they will hold the grudge against us.

    Terra is demanding zero tolerance but then claiming we should only be chasing 'serious' criminals but thats not in sync with zero tolerance. He holds his opinion because he is ignoring whats been pointed out to him and ignoring the facts that dont agree with him. All cases in the circuit court are serious crime but he glosses over that with an excuse then simple ignores it.

    As for less serious crime, Terra wants zero tolerance which means arresting these people but then goes onto say we should ignore that and look around for a murder to investigate. Well then in effect your moving the line again and letting even more offences slip away such as begging. Im extremely confident that if urinating in public became legal people would not be happy and would then be complaining when we walk past it.

    Now while were on the subject, is Terra confident in the health service and their treatment of people? Im curious if its just Gardai or all ES.


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    #183
    tallaght01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    Karlitosway1978 wrote: »
    Were explaining the situation to you because your showing less understanding to us than we do to health service workers despite the fact that a doctor or nurse should realise the reality of working in the public sector and not having adequate funding or equipment.

    Its also folly to believe a smiling Garda asking Mr Scumbag to "move along now please sir" is going to have any effect other than make him laugh. Compare a Garda dealing with a criminal to a doctor dealiing with a patient, thats hardly equal now is it? You offer treatment and if they refuse then they leave and if they complain you call us to arrest them. Which guaranteed, they will hold the grudge against us.

    Terra is demanding zero tolerance but then claiming we should only be chasing 'serious' criminals but thats not in sync with zero tolerance. He holds his opinion because he is ignoring whats been pointed out to him and ignoring the facts that dont agree with him. All cases in the circuit court are serious crime but he glosses over that with an excuse then simple ignores it.

    As for less serious crime, Terra wants zero tolerance which means arresting these people but then goes onto say we should ignore that and look around for a murder to investigate. Well then in effect your moving the line again and letting even more offences slip away such as begging. Im extremely confident that if urinating in public became legal people would not be happy and would then be complaining when we walk past it.

    Now while were on the subject, is Terra confident in the health service and their treatment of people? Im curious if its just Gardai or all ES.

    I thought he was saying that he would like a zero tolerance system, but that in the absence of that, he would at least like the gardai to tackle high level crime.

    You argued that the logic of his argument was flawed, as oposed to the content of his argument.

    You can compare the health service situation if you like. But doctors and nurses constantly get rated as the most trusted professions. I think they have a good rep as they TEND to be courteous, even under horrific conditions.

    junior docs and nurses take a lot of grief in work, due to the high stress. But, when everyone is calm and reasoned, you don't get many people giving out about those professionals in the way you do about gardai.

    People do simply find gardai to be discourteous.


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    #184
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Karlitosway1978 wrote:
    Now while were on the subject, is Terra confident in the health service and their treatment of people? Im curious if its just Gardai or all ES.
    I've never heard of anyone being threatened with "being put in hospital" by an ambulance driver or "having their house set alight" by a fireman for complaining face-to-face but I have heard of people being threatened by Gardaí with "being taken down to the station" for being cheeky.


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    #185
    Traumadoc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭Traumadoc


    I was threatened with being arrested at Dublin Airport. I find the attitude of the police there to be very unprofessional.


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    #186
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,004 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    misnomer wrote: »
    In seconds the were surrounded by people shouting at them all with thier mobile phones taking photos and shouting at them telling them they had thier photos and were going to report them them for abuse.
    When they returned to store later I asked what happened, the man had been dealing heroin on the street.
    I wonder if these bystanders cared that heroin was been sold in the middle of the day in a busy retail area where school children frequent.
    The bystanders could have been thwarted customers, thus explaining their indignancy.
    Karlitosway1978 wrote: »
    And that management company is still there, theres a gate on the carpark and its UPPER Abbey Street not Middle. I would have thought you knew the address of your own company.
    A bit of the oul' foot in mouth syndrome there, Karl, imo. I could be wrong on this, and apologies if I am confusing you with another Garda poster, but did you not say (months ago) that you treat everyone you come into contact with (at a checkpoint) as a possible suspect? Is this how you are trained, and, if so, are you also given techniques to disguise this attitude so that the ordinary decent motorist does not go away from the encounter with a bad taste in his or her mouth?

    Not your ornery onager



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    #187
    eroo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭eroo


    Terrontress wrote: »
    And as I have stated previously, I don't have much experience on being on the wrong side of the law so my views are based on media reports, anecdotal evidence and supposition.

    Must..resist..urge..


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    #188
    FGR
    Registered Users Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭FGR


    Although I can see where this thread has gone I can't help but believe that TheNog had set it up for this very reason - good and healthy debate.

    There's always going to be a person who has had a bad dealing with the Gardai. I'm sure the same could be said about many other Police Forces in the world - the only difference in my opinion being that AGS is advertised as a service and has a history of close interaction with the community. This is unlike other forces which are branded as something completely different. In many cases the Police are branches of military forces and are not 'expected' to be approachable.

    Because of the above, imo; the Irish Public do not want to lose their close contact with the Gardai. Although the State and Garda Management claimsthat they value community involvement; they also demand that there be a police force that tackles all forms of crime and provides a return for same. There are many senior and retired Gardai who were never 'pulled' due to a low return in older times. These men and women made up for that with community interaction and exercise of discretion..however this is no longer the case in modern Ireland. So what happens..? Joe public ends up feeling hard done by when their tax is out by three weeks; yet gets no satisfaction when they're told the Gardai cannot track down someone who might have broken into their car.

    I don't blame the public for feeling disheartened..and don't get me wrong; many members do use their discretion but not as freely as they would like to or would have had in the past. Junior members have their own 'classification' on Garda records now. They're being watched for their returns and nothing more...no wonder there are so many people feeling this way.

    When it comes to general courtesy I try my best to be as polite as possible - however it's very easy to get the wrong impression from someone in this job and it is difficult to see what some people want. It is also very easy to become defensive when all you've been doing was putting up with constant agression during your five Public Order Arrests the night before.

    That's my 2 cents. Looking from both sides of the fence we as members are caught between a rock and a hard place; whilst the public are hard done by. It's not fair on anyone until the role of AGS receives the resources it requires to meet it's expectations from the public and the state.


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    #189
    brayblue24
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,700 ✭✭✭brayblue24


    ForegoneReality wrote: »
    Although I can see where this thread has gone I can't help but believe that TheNog had set it up for this very reason - good and healthy debate.

    There's always going to be a person who has had a bad dealing with the Gardai. I'm sure the same could be said about many other Police Forces in the world - the only difference in my opinion being that AGS is advertised as a service and has a history of close interaction with the community. This is unlike other forces which are branded as something completely different. In many cases the Police are branches of military forces and are not 'expected' to be approachable.

    Because of the above, imo; the Irish Public do not want to lose their close contact with the Gardai. Although the State and Garda Management claimsthat they value community involvement; they also demand that there be a police force that tackles all forms of crime and provides a return for same. There are many senior and retired Gardai who were never 'pulled' due to a low return in older times. These men and women made up for that with community interaction and exercise of discretion..however this is no longer the case in modern Ireland. So what happens..? Joe public ends up feeling hard done by when their tax is out by three weeks; yet gets no satisfaction when they're told the Gardai cannot track down someone who might have broken into their car.

    I don't blame the public for feeling disheartened..and don't get me wrong; many members do use their discretion but not as freely as they would like to or would have had in the past. Junior members have their own 'classification' on Garda records now. They're being watched for their returns and nothing more...no wonder there are so many people feeling this way.

    When it comes to general courtesy I try my best to be as polite as possible - however it's very easy to get the wrong impression from someone in this job and it is difficult to see what some people want. It is also very easy to become defensive when all you've been doing was putting up with constant agression during your five Public Order Arrests the night before.

    That's my 2 cents. Looking from both sides of the fence we as members are caught between a rock and a hard place; whilst the public are hard done by. It's not fair on anyone until the role of AGS receives the resources it requires to meet it's expectations from the public and the state.


    +1

    Says it all really


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    #190
    daveharnett
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭daveharnett


    ForegoneReality wrote: »
    AGS is advertised as a service and has a history of close interaction with the community. This is unlike other forces which are branded as something completely different. In many cases the Police are branches of military forces and are not 'expected' to be approachable.

    Because of the above, imo; the Irish Public do not want to lose their close contact with the Gardai. Although the State and Garda Management claimsthat they value community involvement; they also demand that there be a police force that tackles all forms of crime and provides a return for same.

    There is another force at work here. Both citizens and Gardai are much more mobile, so it is far more difficult for Gardai and community members to establish a good relationship. It's easy for a Guard to make a decision on discretion when he has known the suspect for ten years, and is familiar with his history and character. It's always going to be more difficult when dealing with a random person on O' Connell St.

    This kind of policing does still exists in ireland, but only in small villages. Everyone knows our local guard (and vice versa). He not necessarily well liked, but is well respected. People have a clear idea of what will and won't be tolerated, and people will come to him with problems knowing that he will use common sense and sensitivity in handling them.

    As to the poll, I trust gardai individually. I have found that most will do their best to apply both common sense and professional standards to whatever situation they encounter. The big problem IMO is that neither they nor the public seem to have a great deal of faith in the system in which they operate.


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    #191
    daveharnett
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭daveharnett


    tallaght01 wrote: »
    The_nog is right. Discourtesy is people's biggets problem with gardai. If people liked them, you wouldn't be here explaining about how you have to spend5 hours int he courts, rather than the cop shop.

    People like nurses and junior doctors, for example. That's because they have a rep of being friendly to people when they're at their most vulnerable, as oposed to the gardai who have a tendency towards rudeness.

    Works both ways. When people are met with hostility, with the best will in the world, they will tend to respond in kind. I'm not suggesting for a moment that nurses or junior doctors have it easy, but they don't face the kind of prejudice that guards do.

    I have never found a guard to be rude or discourteous, once he/she realises that I regard them as a person rather than a uniform.


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    #192
    m4j
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭m4j


    TheNog wrote: »
    Topic of discussion - Do you trust the Gardai to do the job that is necessary to protect the public and investigate crime?


    Ok this is probably going to be a contentious thread so some rules first

    1. No full time or part time members are allowed to vote

    2. If you feel you have a grievance then post a clear picture of the event where you felt you were treated badly

    3. Ensure you are open to honest opinions 'cos that is what you will get

    4. Charter rules apply. Any breach of the Charter will get a warning first. Second breach will earn you a few days holidays from this forum. This applies to first time and regular posters alike.


    The Work of the AGS is unique both as a Police Sevice and as a profession, it involves times of extreme danger, emotional and physical challenge and long hours of frustration and paperwork. There are few professions when an individual can be writing reports one day to cutting down a hanging victim the next. It is only natural that some members might not be so pleasant when met with routine requests, it is only natural to be cautious when confronted by people outside. Reading the thread I think alot of people dont understand the job or appreciate the people who do it. There is frustration with the members, when the frustration should be with the laws and in some respects Garda Management.

    I have gained experience with members at many levels, at times I have seen what I understood at the time to be rudness and just ignorance, later I learned that this opinion was wrong and based on my own ignorance. I have seen members spit at, attacked and abused and still able to be professional and proactive. I have seen members in distress and in need of alot more support than is offered by the service but yet show a level of committment to continuing to do the job that would not be found in other professions. I have wittnessed community Policing at its best were security and peace of mind has been maintained and assured.

    I believe we have an extremely professional service that is under resourced, not appreciated and misunderstood by some. This is a police force for the people of Ireland and so we have a role in ensuring it is supported and understood, most only have an opinion when seeing the negative. I know when I sleep at night if in need I can call a number and trained officers will arrive, in some countries they do not have this luxury at all. We also have a role in modelling respect of the force to the youth in our society, whatever way some might feel it is vital that we pass on such human qualities to the young generation such as Respect, Pride and the importance of feeling safe to be ones self, the role the AGS plays in our society is alot wider than the job they do and if we dont focus on the positives and work on the negatives we will have more trouble to come.

    Sorry thats the end of my rant:D


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    #193
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    tallaght01 wrote: »
    I thought he was saying that he would like a zero tolerance system, but that in the absence of that, he would at least like the gardai to tackle high level crime.

    These are links to yesterdays news all of which involve current or concluding investigations in court. Although I have never seen this amount of Garda related news in one day it does show that high level crime is being tackled.

    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojkfmhau/
    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojkfkfid/
    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojkfkfoj/
    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojkfauql/
    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojausnid/
    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojauqlsn/
    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojauqlid/
    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojauojcw/
    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojaueyid/
    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojaueyey/
    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojaumhey/
    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojauaumh/
    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojauauau/


    tallaght01 wrote: »
    You can compare the health service situation if you like. But doctors and nurses constantly get rated as the most trusted professions. I think they have a good rep as they TEND to be courteous, even under horrific conditions.

    junior docs and nurses take a lot of grief in work, due to the high stress. But, when everyone is calm and reasoned, you don't get many people giving out about those professionals in the way you do about gardai.

    Not a good comparision between Gardai and Doctors/Nurses simply because while it is very apparent Doctors/Nurses save lives and treat ill patients, we also save lives through some of the work we do but it is mostly done in a preventative way that is not so obvious as the medical profession.

    Also most people who see us tend to think trouble is not far from them which is an incorrect perception. A good bit of my normal day is spent helping people whether it be giving directions or giving advice to signing forms for them.
    tallaght01 wrote: »
    People do simply find gardai to be discourteous.

    I am a man who hates any type of generalisations so I would say that some Gardai are discourteous.


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    #194
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Hagar wrote: »
    I've never heard of anyone being threatened with "being put in hospital" by an ambulance driver or "having their house set alight" by a fireman for complaining face-to-face but I have heard of people being threatened by Gardaí with "being taken down to the station" for being cheeky.

    It really depends how cheeky the people were. I have come across people who have been cheeky to me usually when drunk. Some incidents would be minor enough and not warrant any further action to the more serious ones where people curse at you or like the fella I had a while ago who refused to get off the middle of the street when I asked him to. He told me to "**** off. This is my town and no one is going to tell me what to do".

    Needless to say he was swiftly lifted.
    esel wrote: »
    A bit of the oul' foot in mouth syndrome there, Karl, imo. I could be wrong on this, and apologies if I am confusing you with another Garda poster, but did you not say (months ago) that you treat everyone you come into contact with (at a checkpoint) as a possible suspect? Is this how you are trained, and, if so, are you also given techniques to disguise this attitude so that the ordinary decent motorist does not go away from the encounter with a bad taste in his or her mouth?

    I highlighted possible suspect because that is what everyone we meet them (who we don't know) but they can be possible suspects ,not suspects. It is only when our suspicions are aroused to an extent will they be actual suspects.

    If we didn't do this the chances of us seeking out and detecting criminals would be severely diminished. You have to remember the criminals are clever enough to blend into the crowd so some can be dressed as well as a banker and as friendly as a priest. Granted sometimes we do get it wrong.

    There are various methods a guard can use to establish if a person is not who they claim do be which would not be appropriate to post. Some methods people will know and others they will not but the trick is to have the innocent party non the wiser to what was going on in a guards head.


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    #195
    Eru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,357 ✭✭✭Eru


    Hagar wrote: »
    I've never heard of anyone being threatened with "being put in hospital" by an ambulance driver or "having their house set alight" by a fireman for complaining face-to-face but I have heard of people being threatened by Gardaí with "being taken down to the station" for being cheeky.

    I wasnt going to post again as I feel I have said my piece and didnt want to take up the thread but this is a silly post Hagar.

    First off. ambulance drivers put people in hospital all the time, its their jobs. :p

    Seriously though, Firemen put out fires so to commit arson is both a crime and the direct opposite of their function. Ambulance / medical workers heal wounds so again, commiting assault would be a crime and the direct opposite of their function.

    How can you compare this to a Garda arresting someone? Seriously, how is this accurate? Should we be releasing people from custody? A Garda arresting someone is their function and not a crime.

    Oh, and if you get into the face of an ambulance driver, a nurse or doctor you will most certainly see yourself very calmly refused treatment and then arrested. Likewise, get in the way of a fireman and you will see them pull back and again, you will be arrested.

    If your going to compare the two then you have to ask, why arent firemen out patroling to prevent fires? If Gardai are at fault for crime being commited then are firemen to blame for fires?


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    #196
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Karlitosway1978 wrote: »
    I wasnt going to post again as I feel I have said my piece and didnt want to take up the thread but this is a silly post Hagar.

    First off. ambulance drivers put people in hospital all the time, its their jobs. :p

    Seriously though, Firemen put out fires so to commit arson is both a crime and the direct opposite of their function. Ambulance / medical workers heal wounds so again, commiting assault would be a crime and the direct opposite of their function.

    How can you compare this to a Garda arresting someone? Seriously, how is this accurate? Should we be releasing people from custody? A Garda arresting someone is their function and not a crime.

    Oh, and if you get into the face of an ambulance driver, a nurse or doctor you will most certainly see yourself very calmly refused treatment and then arrested. Likewise, get in the way of a fireman and you will see them pull back and again, you will be arrested.
    I'm not talking about scum getting lippy with Gardai, TBH do what you like with them, I have a shovel, I'll help with the bodies. ;) I'm talking about some Gardai who, when faced with a member of the public who knows his rights in a certain situation, resort to the bullying "don't get cheeky with me. I'm the law". Gardaí are not the Law, they are not Judge Dredd, they are the guardians of the law which is a whole different ball game. Some of them can't see the difference. Thankfully they are in a minority, unfortunately they are what sticks out in the mind when people think of the Gardaí. When you expect courtesy and receive it you don't make note of it, when you expect courtesy and don't get it it sticks in you mind.

    Recently I have had an experience with the Gardaí, I can't go into details publicly, but I have to say I was astounded and humbled by the humanity and decency of the Garda involved. I suppose that's why I made some of my posts. I am annoyed that there are so many gobshytes in the force undermining the total respect that people like her deserve.

    Karen ******* you are a legend.


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    #197
    CLADA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 651 ✭✭✭CLADA


    Hagar wrote: »
    Recently I have had an experience with the Gardaí, I can't go into details publicly, but I have to say I was astounded and humbled by the humanity and decency of the Garda involved. I suppose that's why I made some of my posts. I am annoyed that there are so many gobshytes in the force undermining the total respect that people like her deserve.

    Karen ******* you are a legend.

    There have been many posts complaining about gardai since this forum was set up but none have stooped as low as this.

    Hagar, I am disgusted that you would accuse any Garda of displaying humanity and decency and I demand you retract those comments.

    If you would like to PM me with her name and station I will ensure she is disciplined immediately.

    On a serious note. Fair play Karen:cool:


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    #198
    Paulzx
    Registered Users Posts: 1,967 ✭✭✭Paulzx


    Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

    If your going to compare the two then you have to ask, why arent firemen out patroling to prevent fires?


    Shhhhhh!!!!. Christ Karlitos the walls have ears around here. Don't say stuff like that out loud. Some idiot of a pen pusher might start thinking that's a great idea. I can just picture the bureacrats setting up a " working group" to investigate the "viability" of constant patrolling by the fire service in order to increase advertising of the "corporate brand".Oh god i think i need to lie down:eek:


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    #199
    Eru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,357 ✭✭✭Eru


    As long as I get a bonus for this great idea Paul :p

    Hagar,
    Too be honest, most people that 'know the law' dont know **** and watch too much US cop shows. Thats just the reality, Saturday nights I hear that a lot. How I cant arrest him or her because....blah blah blah. How somethings not a crime even though I just told them the exact law. How often do Gardai threaten to arrest someone for a non-crime? Very rarely I would say. Jesus, even the Maydayers have 'legal advisers' that get more people in trouble than out of it because of their 'advice'.


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    #200
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Even the ones battered to shit by Robocop, with his numbers off?

    He is atypical but he's still a cop today.


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    #201
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Hagar wrote: »
    Even the ones battered to shit by Robocop, with his numbers off?

    He is atypical but he's still a cop today.

    We have covered this already in another thread. The reason his numbers were off was cos he had finished duty when he got a call on his mobile about what was thought to be a riot.

    Also if you closely at the vids on youtube you will see that nearly all his actions that were filmed were justifiable as far as I could see. That's why is was found innocent before a jury.


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    #202
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    TheNog wrote: »
    We have covered this already in another thread. The reason his numbers were off was cos he had finished duty when he got a call on his mobile about what was thought to be a riot.
    Sorry I don't buy it, "I'll leave on my uniform shirt and pants on but I'm exhausted after a hard day's work so I'll just take off my ID numbers. I call shenaniagans on that. A lifelong friend of mine is a prison warden and he has told me that when they have disturbances in the prison they call in the Gardaí who take off their numbers and wade in without fear of being indentified. Now go ahead and dismiss that as "a friend told me". I know this guy 40 years and we have stood shoulder to shoulder in uniform on riot duty with him in the Curragh in the 70's.


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    #203
    metman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    Hagar wrote: »
    Sorry I don't buy it, "I'll leave on my uniform shirt and pants on but I'm exhausted after a hard day's work so I'll just take off my ID numbers. I call shenaniagans on that.

    Ultimately no one's asking you to. He was found not guilty in a court of law and is still in the police as his actions were deemed justified.

    Funnily enough, the last thing I did tonight before leaving work was take off my epaulettes. Do you buy that?

    Or maybe it's all a conspiracy.


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    #204
    djtechnics1210
    Closed Accounts Posts: 923 ✭✭✭djtechnics1210


    Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

    Too be honest, most people that 'know the law' dont know **** and watch too much US cop shows. Thats just the reality, Saturday nights I hear that a lot. How I cant arrest him or her because....blah blah blah. .

    You cant arrest me gaaauurd because you havent got your hat on. blah blah blah, or my favourite.... you cant arrest me gaaauurd because your are dressed in your normal clothes :rolleyes: ya its called plain cltohes and i just showed you my badge... ya i always have this much c**p on the belt of my jeans. when im not working :rolleyes:


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    #205
    djtechnics1210
    Closed Accounts Posts: 923 ✭✭✭djtechnics1210


    Hagar wrote: »
    Sorry I don't buy it, "I'll leave on my uniform shirt and pants on but I'm exhausted after a hard day's work so I'll just take off my ID numbers. I call shenaniagans on that. A lifelong friend of mine is a prison warden and he has told me that when they have disturbances in the prison they call in the Gardaí who take off their numbers and wade in without fear of being indentified. Now go ahead and dismiss that as "a friend told me". I know this guy 40 years and we have stood shoulder to shoulder in uniform on riot duty with him in the Curragh in the 70's. Don't dare call him a liar.

    Prison Service have c&r teams so they actually rarely call out Gardai anymore, they didn't call in Garda public order unit for last riot and that was a bad one, and they never all in uniform Garda for trouble anymore... this used to happen before but has stopped altogether a number of years ago


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    #206
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Hagar wrote: »
    Sorry I don't buy it, "I'll leave on my uniform shirt and pants on but I'm exhausted after a hard day's work so I'll just take off my ID numbers. I call shenaniagans on that.

    I take off my shoulder numbers after work and so do many others. We are not required to have them on when off duty. And I go to work in my trousers and shirt cos there is no proper changing facilities in my station.

    And again he was cleared off any wrongdoing by a court. If you don;t want to believe the truth then that's your problem I'm afraid.

    Hagar wrote: »
    A lifelong friend of mine is a prison warden and he has told me that when they have disturbances in the prison they call in the Gardaí who take off their numbers and wade in without fear of being indentified. Now go ahead and dismiss that as "a friend told me". I know this guy 40 years and we have stood shoulder to shoulder in uniform on riot duty with him in the Curragh in the 70's.

    Ok so let me get this straight. Scumbags in a prison riot for whatever crappy reason and you are more concerned with Gardai taking off their shoulder numbers!!!

    Why?? So scrotes can cause a riot and then complain about getting hit a few times?


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    #207
    Faheywitane
    Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭Faheywitane


    Firetrap wrote: »
    My relative didn't know whose cattle they were. How on earth were they supposed to know? That's why they'd rung the guards in the first place. The cattle have tags on their ears =>Guards could find out from there who owned them.

    Yes, I know guards are not farmers and shouldn't be out in their wellies rounding up stray cattle but the fact that they couldn't be bothered to do anything about it is serious in my book. The owner should have been told that their cattle were on the road and could have caused a serious accident. Like i said, it's a busy road these animals were on, not a winding country lane.

    I spend a lot of time rounding up cattle. So maybe its just your relative's district??


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    #208
    tallaght01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    TheNog wrote: »
    These are links to yesterdays news all of which involve current or concluding investigations in court. Although I have never seen this amount of Garda related news in one day it does show that high level crime is being tackled.

    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojkfmhau/
    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojkfkfid/
    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojkfkfoj/
    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojkfauql/
    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojausnid/
    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojauqlsn/
    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojauqlid/
    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojauojcw/
    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojaueyid/
    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojaueyey/
    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojaumhey/
    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojauaumh/
    http://breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/1106/ireland/mhidojauauau/





    Not a good comparision between Gardai and Doctors/Nurses simply because while it is very apparent Doctors/Nurses save lives and treat ill patients, we also save lives through some of the work we do but it is mostly done in a preventative way that is not so obvious as the medical profession.

    Also most people who see us tend to think trouble is not far from them which is an incorrect perception. A good bit of my normal day is spent helping people whether it be giving directions or giving advice to signing forms for them.



    I am a man who hates any type of generalisations so I would say that some Gardai are discourteous.


    You're the second member who's managed to miss the point regarding the "tackling high level crime" issue. I was defending a poster who said that he would rather see a zero tolerance approach by the gardai....but in the absence of this, he would like high level crime targetted. Karlitosway felt that the logic of his argument, as opposed to the substance was inherently flawed. I disagreed. I thought the logic was sound. i made no comment about the substance. You're refuting bya rguing about the substance. Though I have no idea how you can thinka few newspapers stories can give us proportion of high level crime being tackled, or it's context.

    With regard to the comparison between docs/nurses and gardia being not valid.....well that's just not true, especially with your reasoning. We're not talking about scumbags finding gardai to be discourteous (and yes it's "the gardai" that people often find discourteous). We're talking about law abiding people. So, we shouldn't have negative experiences of the gardai. But sadly we do.


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    #209
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    tallaght01 wrote: »
    You're the second member who's managed to miss the point regarding the "tackling high level crime" issue. I was defending a poster who said that he would rather see a zero tolerance approach by the gardai....but in the absence of this, he would like high level crime targetted. Karlitosway felt that the logic of his argument, as opposed to the substance was inherently flawed. I disagreed. I thought the logic was sound. i made no comment about the substance. You're refuting bya rguing about the substance. Though I have no idea how you can thinka few newspapers stories can give us proportion of high level crime being tackled, or it's context.

    Maybe its just me but this is about as clear as mud to me.

    I have taken high level crime as to be murder, drugs smuggling etc. or are talking about crime that occurs everyday such as theft, criminal damage etc? :confused:

    As for a zero tolerance approach, we do operate that sort of approach with people who continuously break the law such as shoplifters, unauthorised taking, to murder etc. We do not have zero tolerance across the board, and this is where discretion is used, simply because honest decent people would be prosecuted for a minor indiscretion whether it was meant or not. I don't see how that can help society tbh.
    tallaght01 wrote: »
    With regard to the comparison between docs/nurses and gardia being not valid.....well that's just not true, especially with your reasoning.

    There is a huge difference between these professions but we do share some comparisions such as high stress levels when attempting to save lives and long working hours at times (sometimes for us).

    However doctors/nurse although are faced with violent people do not have to tackle violent people, nor do doctors/nurses come after you when you don't pay a bill nor do they take away a persons freedom nor do they investigate people or prosecute.

    So again do doctors and nurses perform well while under pressure and still remain polite? Yes they do. Do Gardai operate the same way? Yes most do but we operate in situations where we have violent people, if first to a RTC we have no support until EMT or FB arrive etc
    tallaght01 wrote: »
    We're not talking about scumbags finding gardai to be discourteous (and yes it's "the gardai" that people often find discourteous). We're talking about law abiding people. So, we shouldn't have negative experiences of the gardai. But sadly we do.

    I wasn't talking about scrotes at all. I was talking about people who never or rarely have any contact with us.

    I brought up the discourteous bit being one of our biggest problem. It is and I don't think anyone will argue with that but on occasion even I have had difficulty remaining courteous to someone on occasion when you see a person risk their own and others lives for a stupid reason.

    A case in point would be traffic related such as one fella I stopped when he overtook 7 cars all at once (the last two cars on a bend). It is very hard to remain polite when you see that when you have seen bad RTCs.


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    #210
    metman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    tallaght01 wrote: »
    But doctors and nurses constantly get rated as the most trusted professions. I think they have a good rep as they TEND to be courteous, even under horrific conditions.

    Hmmm. Isn't it equally true general dissatisfaction levels with the medical profession have increased, as has work for medical negligence practitioners? Its a growth industry now, isn't it?
    junior docs and nurses take a lot of grief in work, due to the high stress. But, when everyone is calm and reasoned, you don't get many people giving out about those professionals in the way you do about gardai.

    I'd disagree with you there. Having had personal experience of how family members have been misdiagnosed, and mistreated whilst under the care of medical 'professionals', I can attest to the existence of poor care levels, poor service, rude and patronising doctors and ignorant uncaring nurses within the health service. But that won't come as a shock to many, will it?

    Personally I wouldn't put medics on a pedestal as regards courtesy or service, not by a long shot, but at the same time I don't believe, nor suggest, that all medical professionals are 'the same', and afford the public a crap service. Unlike what often happens with the Police on account of individuals with agendas and axes to grind.


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    #211
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    I cant see much prospect of the opposing sides in this thread agreeing to disagree or anything else.

    The entire RoboCop episode was in reality far more due to a total failure of high level Garda Command and Control than any actions of an individual Garda.

    I`m sure the members posting here might be able to confirm it,but my understanding of that days events point to the virtual absence of high level command decisions or even intelligence on what was occurring "In Town"

    In essence individual Gardai from a wide range of locations/stations were being given a rapidly changing picture of the situation with little or no central command decisions being fed through......."Yer on yer own lads,get stuck in" followed at a leisurely distance by....."Ah here now....who told yiz to do that...not me!".

    What particularly incenced me was the manner in which rank and file Gardai were the ONLY ones called to account for the forces shortcomings that day.
    AFAIK No senior Officer or for that matter Department of Justice official was ever asked publicly to account for the shortcomings which finally surfaced that day.

    The only official response which remains with me was some comments by Michael McDowell in which the fellow mused about what type of Policing the "People of Ireland" wanted.
    He felt quite queasy at the possibility of us having a paramilitary CRS style force,
    He was more content that we remain with the "Civic Guard" ethic in which close local relations and a mutual regard would mean nobody would dare say Boo to a nice Policeman....

    At the end of the day,the essential reason for ANY Police force is to ensure we ALL attend to our civic duty to obey the law.
    They are not there to be nice cuddly figures incapable of rough stuff.
    Like it or not,without a viable effective Police force we would have to resort to self-policing just as the Banking system did with self-regulation...and how many people now believe that THAT principle was successful :D


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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