Leaving cert Engineering project 2009???

howtobeknown

Hey there anyone have ideas or websites that I could get of ye about this carousel thing ??? I havent a clue only took up engineering in 5th year and doing higher level. Good at it but dont no anything about carousels or the electonics like gears and pneumatic stuff. any information at all please..:D:D Cheers

Offy

What exactly are you trying to do, what is

this carousel thing

, more info needed.

Offy

Offy wrote: »

What exactly are you trying to do, what is , more info needed.

As far as I know it's one of those circus carousel things, you know with the horse's that rotate about the center, but as they rotate they move up and down.

Shedimus

Is this the official Leaving Cert project for this years higher level? COuld you post a copy of the brief??

howtobeknown

Design brief

Introduction

The fairground has a remarkable history dating back 1500 years.
The modern carousel is of critical importance to the provision of technology driven fairground entertainment. Central to this technology is the control of a system of interconnected moving parts resulting in striking animation effects.

Design a model of a fairground carousel to the general specifications outlined below.

The carousel should:
(A) Have circular motion controlled by an on/off switch.
(B) Incorporate mechanisms which will sequentially animate four figures.
(C) Include an electonic indication to signal the carousel is in operation.

SPECIAL NOTE: MODIFIED TOYS ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE

Presentation of the completed carousel should ensure that:
(A) All main operating features are clealry visible without dismantling.
(B) The longest dimension of the carousel does not exceed 350 mm.
(C) Electic power does not excedd 9 volts.




And the other stuff is just the portfoilo information.

Please help I know what a carousel is but its the mechanisms that get me.
Could a sprocket and chain work .

:pac:;)

willbee

There are a number of ways to do it.
1. Look at the turntable in a record player. works of an elastic band under the turn table and streched slightly around a pulley onto a motor.
2. Make up a gear box, these can be bought in and hook up to a turtable
3. Bevel gears box under the turn table
4. You can interpret the carousel to be a BIG WHEEL in a playground, so instead of the carousel rotating horizontally you could have it rotating vertically which really opens up the possibilities.

Shedimus

Well this looks fun/very very hard
Thinking about making a vertical one it sounds a lot easier? just need to figure out how to animate the figures!
Thinking about how the pin laying machines work at bowling alleys, they have a funny shaped gear that makes it move a special way:
Dammit I cant find a picture!

chosen1

The horses in a carousel move up and down by a crank system rotating if thats any good to you.

slickmcvic

...like this!!


...have a couple of solutions i'm workin on!!

howtobeknown

I actually have came up with a few ideas myself!! Rack and pinion and bevel gears or sprocket and chain wat ye think?? opinions wel
come.?
Was this a project a few years ago does anyone know??

Rattlehead18

yeh dude, its cams u need!

basically how to do it is:

1)u have a motor turning a bar in the centre of the carousel.

2)upon it u shud have a roof (stick a load of leds in it - for the need of something to show the carousel is in motion).

3)then out of the roof u shud have 4 (loose) bars coming downwards (& stick the four figures on each of them).

4)At the end of each bar shud be a wheel.

5)to create the up & down motion u need to place a rounded wavey track (objugated- i think thats the word for it) under the base (dont forget to hide yur mechanisms). this objugated shape is the cam!

6) dont forget to use transparent acrylic or whatever to show these mechanisms.

so how this all comes together is: the motor turns the bar in the centre,attached to the roof, which will turn the attached 4 bars with wheels at the ends to move along the track which will raise over the waves & down the waves.

Personally, i cant wait to try out this project. i never did metalwork up to 5th year but hopefully woodwork will help me out! my art shud help with the 4 figures to be modelled.

hope ive been help!

Shedimus

Yeh I was thinking along the same lines, having a bendy ring under the carousel and have the figures track around it!

howtobeknown

Shedimus wrote: »

having a bendy ring

Wat sort of bendy ring?? Any pics are welcome.

Shedimus

Something like that but in a circular shape! Thats wht I'm incorparating into my design.Then have some form of runner that will be guided along it in a circular motion.
Just to make this clear, this is the official 2009Leaving Cert project yes? I havent recieved my brief yet so I'm trusting you!

howtobeknown

:cool::Dyea of course it is i wouldnt bother lying about it?? Thanks to me ul be ahead of everyone in ur class !! ul prob get it 2mor!! let me know wat yer teachers say and stuff. I really want an A1 in engineering,:eek: and that wavy thing could work but how would it work like??

In a worm gear and gear what moves up and down the gear or the worm gear if u understand me??????

Shedimus

howtobeknown wrote: »

:cool::Dyea of course it is i wouldnt bother lying about it?? Thanks to me ul be ahead of everyone in ur class !! ul prob get it 2mor!! let me know wat yer teachers say and stuff. I really want an A1 in engineering,:eek: and that wavy thing could work but how would it work like??

In a worm gear and gear what moves up and down the gear or the worm gear if u understand me??????

Sorry to doubt it's just last year our teacher gave us like 2002's design to do as a project with the brief and all! Yeh I've been emailing like mad to tell every1 praying that it was right thanks! It would work like a cam in an engine works lifting the figures as the roll along the shape. I'm ****e at Solidworks but I'll try and get a concept of it for you
Does your engineering teacher go to that thing in Athlone and gets a huge info cd on the project!


I'm thinking of vacuum forming the roof and the base of this thing out of Perspex, can any1 thing of a better idea?

howtobeknown

Shedimus wrote: »

Does your engineering teacher go to that thing in Athlone and gets a huge info cd on the project!

Not thet i know of he didnt last year anyways!! hes a class teacher but theres a heap in our class. does ur teacher get it??

Vaccum forming is a good idea but it would be hard enough to make it out of wood first.


Pneumatic rams and pumps??? for the figures any1

Shedimus

howtobeknown wrote: »

Not thet i know of he didnt last year anyways!! hes a class teacher but theres a heap in our class. does ur teacher get it??

Vaccum forming is a good idea but it would be hard enough to make it out of wood first.


Pneumatic rams and pumps??? for the figures any1

Yeh he will be on the 20th or something, I'll post it somewhere to download once i get it!?
Not a clue bout Pneumatics!

slickmcvic

Shedimus

Showed it the brief to my engineering teacher today who then proceded to not believe it! Oh well still gonna sketch it a bit! :rolleyes:

slickmcvic

the briefs were released on the 22nd of october...maybe the project is being put off to finish theory work...no harm in that either i suppose....the conference is the ETTA in mullingar and we'll see a presentation of possible solutions at it the disc wont come out till sprin...i'll be headin to it i'll post or pm any ideas

howtobeknown

ha wel he will be raging when he gets it.:D:P we started our analysis of brief today. cant wait to get started on it.

nice pics slickmcvic. like cams going up and down.:) have an idead like that meself.

howtobeknown

slickmcvic wrote: »

i'll be headin to it i'll post or pm any ideas

cheers mate that will be a great help. can any students go or what lik???

Shedimus

Surely there aint much to analise outta that brief! The options are pretty limited to what we can make!?

slickmcvic

eh, i don't know is the presentation open to the public or not...i know theres part of the meeting that you need to be a member for...
i told to them to analyse the brief by interperating it into their own words, highlighting the key points and and exploring possble solutions for each of the key points with words and sketches

Rattlehead18

slickmcvic wrote: »

thats exactly what I was saying!
good and all that it is, i found a much easier idea......

SWASH PLATE CAM!!!

Shedimus

Rattlehead18 wrote: »

thats exactly what I was saying!
good and all that it is, i found a much easier idea......

SWASH PLATE CAM!!!

And after a quick google I found the name for my idea
Means you can set up multiple animations with one simple mechanism!

Quick question to slick-
Do you think you'd need more than one mechanism to animate figures? Like the swash cam for say horses and then another one for people? Just asking as still havent recieved our brief and my teacher doesnt think the brief is real! (Silly Silly man)

slickmcvic

I like to keep things as simple as possible...
the main problems i can see with this project is generating enough power to keep the thing rotating at a steady constant speed...


the swashplate cams a great idea but i wouldnt have it rotating as well as the models.
you could have the plate in a fixed postion and have the models trail around it in order to geneate the individual animation ....you could mount the plate on the top or bottom of the carousel and have a spring on the opposite side of the shaft to keep applyin pressure to it...i'll try and draw up a sketch to explain what i mean!


i dont think you'd gain too much from using a variety of mechanisms to animate each set of models...once each model has a seperate motion to the circular motion i'd say that part of the brief is fulllfilled...a collegue of mind coreeects the projects and i'll put it to him tomorrow!be sure put all your ideas in your portfolio and sketch em out while there fresh in your head....you'll find it hard to remember what you were thinkin come May

Rattlehead18

slickmcvic wrote: »

I like to keep things as simple as possible...
the main problems i can see with this project is generating enough power to keep the thing rotating at a steady constant speed...


the swashplate cams a great idea but i wouldnt have it rotating as well as the models.
you could have the plate in a fixed postion and have the models trail around it in order to geneate the individual animation ....you could mount the plate on the top or bottom of the carousel and have a spring on the opposite side of the shaft to keep applyin pressure to it...i'll try and draw up a sketch to explain what i mean!


i dont think you'd gain too much from using a variety of mechanisms to animate each set of models...once each model has a seperate motion to the circular motion i'd say that part of the brief is fulllfilled...a collegue of mind coreeects the projects and i'll put it to him tomorrow!be sure put all your ideas in your portfolio and sketch em out while there fresh in your head....you'll find it hard to remember what you were thinkin come May

I know, you wud have to fix the swash plate into place. It wud be impossible really to fit in a way of turning the swash plate & rotating the carousel! i had come across that problem & i was like ah ****, but it just came to me to fix the swash plate down!

Rattlehead18

Shedimus wrote: »

And after a quick google I found the name for my idea
Means you can set up multiple animations with one simple mechanism!

Quick question to slick-
Do you think you'd need more than one mechanism to animate figures? Like the swash cam for say horses and then another one for people? Just asking as still havent recieved our brief and my teacher doesnt think the brief is real! (Silly Silly man)

Im sorry but yur teacher is a dumbass! Ive already started cutting out materials!

Shedimus

Rattlehead18 wrote: »

Im sorry but yur teacher is a dumbass! Ive already started cutting out materials!

Yeh just got our brief today! Still havent sorted out an analysis yet! I've been sketching plans for a week now anyways! I'm years ahead of everybody, our class isnt too bright either!

howtobeknown

having cams and followers is the best idea i think. its simply and you only need one motor to turn the carousel. The wavy track could be made from vaccum forming could it slick??


And i told you shedimus. Id say ur teacher was raging.:P

Shedimus

Havent seen him mate I've been off sick with an eye infection last 2 days but I'd say he gonna be raging hah :cool:

I was looking at getting the wavy track CNC milled but we dont have a cnc miling machine and its too expspensive to pay somebody! Plus dont really want someone else to make my project :P
My main mechanism is defo goiong to be a stationary Swash cam plate

slickmcvic

howtobeknown wrote: »

having cams and followers is the best idea i think. its simply and you only need one motor to turn the carousel. The wavy track could be made from vaccum forming could it slick??P

yeah I'd say it could but you'll still probably end up making its former from wood yourself.....i was looking in to the idea of using a nice sheet metal like brass to form the "wavey track!...i think that would look class

Shedimus

Yeh I'm hoping to use brass and clear perspex for most of my project with a little aluminium. Do you think it'd look any good?

slickmcvic

Shedimus wrote: »

Yeh I'm hoping to use brass and clear perspex for most of my project with a little aluminium. Do you think it'd look any good?

yeah that'd be good...know whats available and ask your teacher for anything special you might need in advance,it'll help if you have a cutin list made up..i bought in some tinted perspex and it'll be used....
most schools order from miko metals and central technology so check out their brochoures they should be online

howtobeknown

slickmcvic wrote: »

i was looking in to the idea of using a nice sheet metal like brass to form the "wavey track!...i think that would look class

Yea it soul but it would be hard to make a circular wavy track out of sheet brass would it not???

slickmcvic

howtobeknown wrote: »

Yea it soul but it would be hard to make a circular wavy track out of sheet brass would it not???

what you could do is put the brass flat through a scroll forming jig to get it circulard and bend the profile after...you could also place the sheetmetal on its side to form the profile...i seen it done on a toy (with plastic) today and it worked a treat.

blahblah123

slickmcvic wrote: »

Any ideas on how to get the figures running along the track without having the roof/base moving in a circle too?

I was looking at a toy carousel the other day and it had a smaller base circular piece connected by a center bar to an identical circular piece that slotted in under the roof/top of the carousel. The motor and gears were connected to the center bar which rotated and pulled the figures along the track.

Now this is a great idea, but, I have run into a problem in respect to my own carousel, I don't know how to keep the circular pieces secure without attaching them to either the roof or base of my piece, and as you well know if I do that it won't turn. Any suggestions to this problem?

slickmcvic

you'll have to have some platform rotating to keep everything rotating at the same speed...it would be very hard to have each runner running independentaly

tweety4life

hey im new on this but i mite be able to help ye with yer projects a fair bit.
my family owns a funfair so i have a fair knowledge on how carousels work.
if ye wanted to go for a traditional carousel look ye should use a crank shaft suspended in the top of the carousel. also tha cam and follower idea is a great idea. simple and easy enough to do. to hold th bar thats holding the figure on top you can use a simple bracket with a piece of the centre cut out from top to bootom with a pin goin through it.
if ye av any questions ill be more than happy to help and to hear some other ideas.

slickmcvic

jeez good man!!....you wouldn't upload a few photos of a carousel and its mechanisms...sounds class

howtobeknown

:Dstarting cutting out materials monday!!! thank god! im the only one in our class that is starting all thanks to this forum!!! for the folder slick can i have as many ideas as i want?? and what sort of research on carousels should i include?? i know ya have to have 3 ideas and pick one but could ya have like 5 and say why i couldnt use them??

Love the idea of the sheet/ brass idea for the track if you have any more info on this it would be a great help bud!! cheers...

slickmcvic

howtobeknown wrote: »

for the folder slick can i have as many ideas as i want?? and what sort of research on carousels should i include?? i know ya have to have 3 ideas and pick one but could ya have like 5 and say why i couldnt use them??...

....yeah having 5 ideas would be fine...i tell the lads to break the project into its key features and suggest various ideas for each feature ( for example,method of driving models in circular motion methods for animating models , shape of model etc)....then combine a couple of these elements and form a finished solution...

howtobeknown wrote: »

Love the idea of the sheet/ brass idea for the track if you have any more info on this it would be a great help bud!! cheers...

i'lll try and draw up the sheet metal solution over the weekend...i had a video of it on the toy but the cameras at work so i'll upload it on monday

howtobeknown

slickmcvic wrote: »

....
i'lll try and draw up the sheet metal solution over the weekend...i had a video of it on the toy but the cameras at work so i'll upload it on monday

Cheers mate fierce sound of ya!!

slickmcvic

howtobeknown

wats that?? any one any instructions on how to use solid works i havent a clue?

slickmcvic

ah its just showing the idea of havin the sheet metal on its side can be used to make the models move independantly......its the way the toy worked..
on solidworks opening taskbar go to
help
online tutorials
lesson1

Shedimus

slickmcvic wrote: »

ah its just showing the idea of havin the sheet metal on its side can be used to make the models move independantly......its the way the toy worked..
on solidworks opening taskbar go to
help
online tutorials
lesson1

And then spend the next year learning how to do things
Ask your engineering teacher or just draw it out on paper to save time :P

howtobeknown

right cheers think i have the basics now any way. and say for construction studies how wud one make truss rafters and ****e like that.

TheCardHolder

Whatmaterials would you suggest using?Also what is the last diagram about?