Traffic-free city centres for Ireland?

Raam

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/traffic-free-city-centres-for-ireland-19005

The Irish Government wants 150,000 commuters to abandon their cars and get on their bicycles by 2020 to ease the county’s congestion woes and help alleviate global warming.

Department of Transport officials are finalising a scheme that could see motorists banned from entering several major city centers, including Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Galway. The plan puts forward several cyclist-friendly measures to encourage low carbon commuting. The aim is to ensure that 10% of all trips are made on a bicycle.

The Sustainable Travel and Transport Action Plan (STTAP) proposes the exclusion of cars and trucks from parts of the city centers in daylight hours and the conversion of many central thoroughfares into cycle and pedestrian zones. It will need cabinet approval, but a government source said: “Over the next few years, key streets in Dublin city centre will be severely disrupted by [the] construction of major public transport works. When that disruption is over, the streets are unlikely to be handed back to cars in the same way.”

David Maher of the Dublin Cycling Campaign (DCC) extended the plan a guarded welcome: “I would say 10% is completely achievable, but we’ve found in the past that there is no follow-through from policy to reality on the ground. You can make all the cycle tracks you want, but if the gardai [police] are going to allow people to park all over them, they’re more of a hazard than a help.”

Chips Lovell

They probably got that from Stephen O'Brien's story in the Sunday Times today.

Chips Lovell

Can't see them taking buses and taxis out of the city centre though.

xz

Great idea, but will it come to fruition???

The follow on logistics behind such a scheme would be immense too.
Companies having to provide changing/showering facilities for those who cycled.
The provision of secure "parking" of bikes etc etc...............

But it would be nice:)

estebancambias

eh parts of dublin city are basically car free for christ sake.....cycling in the city is grand as it is. the way people were talking on here i thought i would be out of my depth but cycled in on friday and it was grand.

Hagar

Great idea! 150,000 commuters off the road. Wow!

Let's see, 150,000 people not buying €50 of fuel per week is a loss of €390,000,000 in sales per annum. At a wild guess I'd say the duty, tax and VAT loss on that is about 66.66% or €260,000,000. I hope the cycling keeps everyone healthy because all the hospitals will be closed due to lack of funding. I'd factor in the contributions from the cyclists that will offset this but they don't pay any. Yet.

De Deraco

why would every work place need showers if your reasonably fit and cycle at a leisurely pace 15-25 kpm yu shouldnt be sweating any more than you would waking to work

Húrin

So the Metro will be the most expensive pro-cycling scheme in world history then. Great.

De Deraco

we wouldnt need as much money as with the air quality improvments ashtma would sufferers would be lowered and there would be less road damag caused by cars not to mention th fewer serious car accidents.

Hagar wrote: »

Great idea! 150,000 commuters off the road. Wow!

Let's see, 150,000 people not buying €50 of fuel per week is a loss of €390,000,000 in sales per annum. At a wild guess I'd say the duty, tax and VAT loss on that is about 66.66% or €260,000,000. I hope the cycling keeps everyone healthy because all the hospitals will be closed due to lack of funding. I'd factor in the contributions from the cyclists that will offset this but they don't pay any. Yet.

Raam

It would certainly make the city center a much more pleasurable place than it is now.

xz

De Deraco wrote: »

why would every work place need showers if your reasonably fit and cycle at a leisurely pace 15-25 kpm yu shouldnt be sweating any more than you would waking to work

Don't know about you, but I normally SHOWER shortly after I awake to go to work:D

It would be for the NEW cyclists that the scheme would produce, you are assuming that every one who cycles is already fit, and if you are not fit 25kmh is NOT a leisurely pace, whereas, yes 15kmh, is:)

estebancambias

no it wouldn't.

DirkVoodoo

Cycling does promote better health. There are plenty of stories on boards to back this up. How much money is lost from sick days? I'd wager its quite a bit.

From the VHI:

Furthermore, international studies say that the cost of occupational stress in Ireland could be as higfh as 10 percent of the Gross National Product (GNP).

72hundred

I think this is overkill.

A better cycling infrastructure in city centres with a reduction in cars (not banning), would be ideal. That way everyone is accommodated. The cyclist is better off and the motorist can use the city centre although he/she knows it won't be that convenient.

estebancambias

De Deraco wrote: »

why would every work place need showers if your reasonably fit and cycle at a leisurely pace 15-25 kpm yu shouldnt be sweating any more than you would waking to work

LOL. Sweat has nothing to do with being fit. I am pretty damn fit and would probably sweat if I was cycling uphill at any time.

Raam

estebancambias wrote: »

no it wouldn't.

Sure it would. Think about it: less noise pollution, less air pollution.

72hundred

De Deraco wrote: »

why would every work place need showers if your reasonably fit and cycle at a leisurely pace 15-25 kpm yu shouldnt be sweating any more than you would waking to work

Everyone sweats to varying degrees. Showers are always needed. I doubt the majority of commuting cyclists could remain completely sweat free and change into formal work attire comfortably (not to mention any odour) after a 10km cycle, which would be pretty average.

EDIT: Also if its raining heavily a shower is welcome at work!

DirkVoodoo

I don't think to many companies would be too put out. They can convert some of the car parking space, use money saved from company car/ fuel purchase. Reduced sick days (barring the "Alpine Flu").

I'm sure some dragon's den person would come up with some great idea to provide bike-parking/changing facilities in the city if employers are not willing to.

Húrin

estebancambias wrote: »

eh parts of dublin city are basically car free for christ sake.....cycling in the city is grand as it is. the way people were talking on here i thought i would be out of my depth but cycled in on friday and it was grand.

Cycling in Dublin centre is not dangerous or disastrous but nobody can claim that Dublin is yet the great cycling city it deserves to be. The sheer number of cars and the roads designed to cater to their needs only make cycling harder than it should be.

Dublin is small enough and flat enough to be another Copenhagen or Amsterdam (in terms of cycling, that is), so why not?

petethedrummer

Húrin wrote: »

Dublin is small enough and flat enough to be another Copenhagen or Amsterdam (in terms of cycling, that is), so why not?

I'll tell you why not, cos it's in Ireland and will suffer from the usual irish fudged solutions, short-term thinking, poor planning, lobby groups etc...

Kinetic^

Hopefully they bring in a similar system like they have in London for charging cars that enter the centre.

Lumen

Hagar wrote: »

Great idea! 150,000 commuters off the road. Wow!

Let's see, 150,000 people not buying €50 of fuel per week is a loss of €390,000,000 in sales per annum. At a wild guess I'd say the duty, tax and VAT loss on that is about 66.66% or €260,000,000. I hope the cycling keeps everyone healthy because all the hospitals will be closed due to lack of funding. I'd factor in the contributions from the cyclists that will offset this but they don't pay any. Yet.

A normal (diesel) will do at least 12km/litre urban. €50 at €1.25 a litre would indicate that those 150,000 people have an average daily round-trip of 100km.

If that's true, I can't see them cycling to work every day.

When a Government introduces an incentive for something designed to destroy tax revenues, it's because they don't expect many people to take it up.

DirkVoodoo

Even 12L/100km is extremely pessimistic for a diesel engine. An X5 3.0 Diesel (big engine, heavy car) will consume around 10.5L/100km. On the other side of the scale a Fiat Panda 1.3 Multijet Diesel will consume 5.4L/100km in all urban driving.

I guess they might lose that much money from people not commuting into the city centre if we all drove Aston DB9s.

Lumen

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Even 12L/100km is extremely pessimistic for a diesel engine.

Indeed. That's why I suggested 12km/litre, not 12L/100km.

DirkVoodoo

D'oh! Apologies sir.

faceman

these initiatives are great for people who have the luxury of being in a position to cycle to work. But what about people living in Clonee who commute to Ballsbridge? Or people who live in Rathfarnham who commute to Santry? Or people who live in Newbridge and commute to Fairview? Or people who live in Balbriggan who commute to Sandyford?

Taking cars off the road isn't the answer when the majority of employers are based in town centres.

DirkVoodoo

According to google maps, Rathfarnham to Santry is 13km, Clonee to Ballsbridge is 22km, Balbriggan to Sandyford is 45km and Newbridge to Fairview is a whopping 64km.

2 of the 4 you listed are quite doable by bike and sub-hour commutes (admittedly I don't know the routes or the roads that well). That would be half as many commuters ditching cars.

I'm sure these measures would have been proposed as a park and ride scheme similar to what people currently do with luas/bus.

cyclopath2001

faceman wrote: »

Taking cars off the road isn't the answer when the majority of employers are based in town centres.

Santry, Ballsbridge, Fairview and Sandyford are not in in central Dublin. All are near very substantial residential areas and are very convenient work locations for people who live near them or along the many public transport routes serving them.

tunney

estebancambias wrote: »

LOL. Sweat has nothing to do with being fit. I am pretty damn fit and would probably sweat if I was cycling uphill at any time.

Fitness does affect sweating. The fitter you are the faster you go before you start working and sweating.

tunney

faceman wrote: »

these initiatives are great for people who have the luxury of being in a position to cycle to work. But what about people living in Clonee who commute to Ballsbridge? Or people who live in Rathfarnham who commute to Santry? Or people who live in Newbridge and commute to Fairview? Or people who live in Balbriggan who commute to Sandyford?

Taking cars off the road isn't the answer when the majority of employers are based in town centres.

Emmm I used to do Terenure to Santry, if I drove it took 1:20 or more. If I bused it took longer still. Cycling was 40 minutes.

Lumen

tunney wrote: »

Fitness does affect sweating. The fitter you are the faster you go before you start working and sweating.

Are you sure?

I thought sweating was a response to metabolic heat generated in muscle, which is related to power output not perceived effort.

I presume that fitter people shunt heat to the skin more effectively, and can therefore maintain lower core temperature for a given power output, but I don't know that this necessarily results in significantly less sweat. In very cold conditions, exercise still generates sweat.

Fat people probably look sweatier because it takes more muscle power to move their larger mass.