Feedback requested "...bitch..."

Fysh

Overheal wrote: »

Fair enough. But what I mean is like, say a poster I know well enough - lets say Nerin - made an offensive comment or title that irked me to the point of expanding the conversation in 3 other forums (2 public 1 restricted) I might consider it prudent to PM Nerin and say Hey: you don't think that comment was a little Over The Top? It didn't sit well with me... and knowing Nerin he'd probably grant it its due consideration. Sometimes its ok to Pull Favors, you dont always have to Pull Rank.

That sounds like expecting someone else to do your thinking for you so you don't have to, you know, stop for a second and consider whether what you're posting might be regarded as offensive, prejudiced (against whatever group or demographic), or just plain inane. Which isn't quite how it works...

Overheal wrote: »

True, as I've said, it would have been nice to know I was under investigation before it hit the mainstream media. As Dragan put it, some posters may now feel like I'm some sort of sexist wanker, which doesn't sit all too well with me. The damage is done, but hopefully not lasting.

You could always consider this incident an opportunity to learn about thinking a bit more before posting something old with a shock-value-for-the-sake-of-shock-value title. But hey, if you prefer to somehow make this entire situation someone else's fault, knock yourself out...

Macha

Overheal wrote: »

True, as I've said, it would have been nice to know I was under investigation before it hit the mainstream media. As Dragan put it, some posters may now feel like I'm some sort of sexist wanker, which doesn't sit all too well with me. The damage is done, but hopefully not lasting.

Overheal. I was one of the people a bit offended by the post but I certainly don't consider you a "sexist wanker" - not by a long shot. Electronic communication is fraught with difficulties because something like 90% of communication come from non-verbal cues. Plus most people on here are effectively strangers. So maybe I wouldn't have been offended if:
a) I knew you personally
b) The sentence had been communicated in person.

But I think someone would have to have a lot of spare time on their hands (and a tape-recoder :pac:) to bear a grudge for something like this. As is the policy of boards in general, attack the post, not the poster.

Kinetic^

metrovelvet wrote: »

However, saying this, I don't have a serious problem with "offensive" as long as there is a level playing field and as long as there is some kind of alert system or warning so that parents who have children or teens who look at these boards will be made aware and act accordingly to what they want their kids exposed to.

Hey CuLt, here's some more stuff you can implement...... so that lazy parents don't have to watch what their kids are doing! :rolleyes:

VH

OP should get a ban for posting that, since it's offensive and based on a spoof article from 2002 or 2003. What was he looking for when he found it I wonder...:rolleyes:

The whole thing is in bad bad taste.

javaboy

Overheal wrote: »

by the way, whoever tagged "smack my darling up" has won the internet for today.

Yay! I'm a winner :cool:

Kinetic^

VH wrote: »

The whole thing is in bad bad taste.

Yeah but it's good for your health!

Dudess

No Overheal hatin' from me either - you named a thread something which could be construed as offensive if offence was meant, but you were being ironic and humorous.
I'm kinda on the fence on this one - I don't like the phrase used but it was used in jest. Then again, why should it be used at all? Ah... I don't know. Goin' round in circles here...

I certainly don't think you're a misogynist or sexist though.

In the tags, I like "misgynostic ****" - sort of a cross between misogynistic and agnostic.
And "ingurgitate lewd woman" - awesome!

Steve

Nerin wrote: »

It may be teh drink talki but i like overheal

pffft... I liked Overheal well before I (hic) bechame an alcomahol=ic.

but srsly,
What's going this thread has run it's course, some might say it has burst its banks and flooded a few small towns - others might say they deserved to be flooded and so we'll argue in ever decreasing circles..

This must be a record in the history of the internet for the most discussion about a single word in a thread.:rolleyes:

Faith

Overheal wrote: »

by the way, whoever tagged "smack my darling up" has won the internet for today.

Haha, was just about to post that.

I made my point in the mod forum that I found it a bit offensive because of the context. I asked my female flatmates what they thought of it as a sentence and they were shocked. Everything I could say about it has already been said far more eloquently than I could put it though (context, degradation, misogynistic undertones etc etc etc). However, that being said, I have nothing against Overheal and sincerely doubt he meant any harm by it.

Nerin

SteveC wrote: »

pffft... I liked Overheal well before I (hic) bechame an alcomahol=ic.

but srsly,
What's going this thread has run it's course, some might say it has burst its banks and flooded a few small towns - others might say they deserved to be flooded and so we'll argue in ever decreasing circles..

This must be a record in the history of the internet for the most discussion about a single word in a thread.:rolleyes:

you take that back! I likede him first!

Overheal

Fysh wrote: »

That sounds like expecting someone else to do your thinking for you so you don't have to, you know, stop for a second and consider whether what you're posting might be regarded as offensive, prejudiced (against whatever group or demographic), or just plain inane. Which isn't quite how it works...

You could always consider this incident an opportunity to learn about thinking a bit more before posting something old with a shock-value-for-the-sake-of-shock-value title. But hey, if you prefer to somehow make this entire situation someone else's fault, knock yourself out...

I'm not blaming anyone if my post gets removed, locked, or I'm banned in any way shape or forum. Those things are my fault. But its out of my hands when an entire response thread, or three, is made in my honor, so that Registered Users, Moderators and Administrators alike can take jabs at me (and they have). Its not unreasonable to ask for a PM to let me know that The Spanish Inquisition is coming to town. As many have commented, this should have ended with a lock and/or edit.

As for needing Thought Police, and thinking this situation somehow will make me feel like I am walking a Tight-Rope with anyone here, is just silly. It was a title, followed by what I thought later to be a poorly constructed joke - but I dont think Anyone anticipated the breach of the Political Correctness Levees.



This is an isolated incident for a very specific issue that I don't think any poster should ever have thrown upon their post. If every poster really had to worry that every post they made could have them sent to the Boards-Gallows, then this site would cease to function in a healthy manner.

DeVore

Overheal wrote: »

This is an isolated incident for a very specific issue that I don't think any poster should ever have thrown upon their post. If every poster really had to worry that every post they made could have them sent to the Boards-Gallows, then this site would cease to function in a healthy manner.

Yeah, why you should be held accountable for what you write? Thats just crazy talk...

DeV.

Overheal

DeVore wrote: »

Yeah, why you should be held accountable for what you write? Thats just crazy talk...

DeV.

Sir, you seem to have missed the point about the difference between moderator action and public tarring and feathering. Then again if you want to be able to tar and feather me for any and all of my offensive posts, I open the floor to anyone who wants to read through all 8,707 of my previous posts to find anything condemning.

In fact, as it stands, the only think that still irks me about this entire Three-Ring Circus is Beruthiel's comment.

Jack B. Badd

Overheal wrote: »

Sir, you seem to have missed the point about the difference between moderator action and public tarring and feathering.

You appear to be blowing your "public tarring and feathering" out of all proportion.

Steve

Overheal wrote: »

I'm not blaming anyone if my post gets removed, locked, or I'm banned in any way shape or forum. Those things are my fault.

Dude, this is so much bigger than any one post now - the whole integrity of boards is at stake.

Don't forget what spock said.....

Dudess

Jack B. Badd wrote: »

You appear to be blowing your "public tarring and feathering" out of all proportion.

I disagree. Some terrible things were said or implied about Overheal who made an understandable mistake - on After Hours, vulgar, misogynistic language is becoming something you'd barely blink at (including me of all people) and he was just going with the flow.

I know what it's like to be the target of a lynching for an error in judgement - it's sh1t. I know it's only the internet but it's still sh1t.

Go easy on the guy...

Nerin

Overheal wrote: »

Sir, you seem to have missed the point about the difference between moderator action and public tarring and feathering. Then again if you want to be able to tar and feather me for any and all of my offensive posts, I open the floor to anyone who wants to read through all 8,707 of my previous posts to find anything condemning.

In fact, as it stands, the only think that still irks me about this entire Three-Ring Circus is Beruthiel's comment.

wait,what?since when are we tappin and featherin you? *feels left out*

Nevyn

Dudess wrote: »

And "ingurgitate lewd woman" - awesome!

You do know that ingurgitate means gluttonous or fat, right ?

Dudess

The adjective. However the verb "to ingurgitate" means to swallow.

Overheal

Nerin wrote: »

wait,what?since when are we tappin and featherin you? *feels left out*

Its Ok, I'll be over in the Noc-Attic shortly and we can have a big Lets Tar Overheal Session for ****s and giggles.

see, you can use the word shit without being derogatory. Why censor it?

Dudess

Overheal wrote: »

the only think that still irks me about this entire Three-Ring Circus is Beruthiel's comment.

I thanked Beruthiel's comment because I saw it as a good summing-up of a particular attitude in After Hours rather than a personal attack on you. I know your style at this stage well enough to realise you were being ironic and posting a typical AH comment with that title, however certain other After Hours regulars say sh1t like that sans irony...

Fysh

Overheal wrote: »

I'm not blaming anyone if my post gets removed, locked, or I'm banned in any way shape or forum. Those things are my fault. But its out of my hands when an entire response thread, or three, is made in my honor, so that Registered Users, Moderators and Administrators alike can take jabs at me (and they have). Its not unreasonable to ask for a PM to let me know that The Spanish Inquisition is coming to town. As many have commented, this should have ended with a lock and/or edit.

The correct way to avoid repetition of this situation is for you to realise what part of your original post was a stupid choice of words and avoid doing so again, not for people to warn you that you may have stepped the line every time you post something stupid and offensive. Your words, your problem. Let's not forget that if you had chosen a less dumb-assed title for the post, none of this would have happened.

You can whinge all you like about being *gasp* judged for what you post, but this isn't really about you so much as about where the line of acceptability is drawn. Of course, it appears that you'd prefer to flail around complaining and drawing attention to yourself instead of quietly letting the issue die, so perhaps you really do want people to have this whole issue as their main mental image of you.

In which case, you are Howard Stern and I claim my £5.

Dudess wrote:

Some terrible things were said or implied about Overheal who made an understandable mistake - on After Hours, vulgar, misogynistic language is becoming something you'd barely blink at (including me of all people) and he was just going with the flow.

Other people doing it as well isn't really an excuse now, is it? I can see where it gets confusing if it appears to set a precedent, but still, nobody forced him to use that phrase so he can't complain that some people have reacted negatively to it.

Nerin

Overheal wrote: »

Its Ok, I'll be over in the Noc-Attic shortly and we can have a big Lets Tar Overheal Session for ****s and giggles.

see, you can use the word shit without being derogatory. Why censor it?

because i'm drunk and starving and poo makes me feel sick? Boards,makin nerin not vomit? >_> the nocturnals are to busy being infected by my weirdness to tar and feather you. Spankin,maybe...

Peared

You play with fire...

Dudess

Fysh wrote: »

Other people doing it as well isn't really an excuse now, is it? I can see where it gets confusing if it appears to set a precedent, but still, nobody forced him to use that phrase so he can't complain that some people have reacted negatively to it.

What I was saying was, his mistake was that bit more understandable considering it's After Hours. I don't think he's complaining about people reacting negatively to it, rather that they're calling him - or at least comparing him to - a misogynistic pig... as well as lynching him. He has admitted to his mistake, and on a post I just looked at, he holds himself completely accountable. Now you may say he's keeping the thread open by responding to the constant jibes, but I see that as defending himself. Granted, he could just ignore them but would you blame him for defending himself?

javaboy

Dudess wrote: »

And "ingurgitate lewd woman" - awesome!

Yeah I bet whoever wrote that is awesome. Possibly with great hair.

Thaedydal wrote: »

You do know that ingurgitate means gluttonous or fat, right ?

As Dudess said to ingurgitate means to swallow. I checked my dictionary of funny words just to be sure.

DeVore

I did not comment on this until the assertion was made that you should not be held accountable for what you write. You simply cant say "hey, its not fair to pick me up on something I wrote... i mean, you know what I'm like!".

If you say it and its not offensive to many people, then you cant be hauled over the coals realistically. Plus you can simply say "meh, whatever, I stand by what I wrote" and not be concerned. Clearly thats not the case here.

The reality is that Overheal may be playing Garfield here going "me me me me!", this thread isnt really about him or his post. Unfortunately it was used as a topical example but this thread was a request from Karoma for more guidance on how all of us would like to approach an issue that has only arisen since the internet arrived and that is, how do we draw up rules or guidelines to govern our new found ability to converse with ALL of the rest of us.

Thats a much more interesting topic.

DeV.

Overheal

I think Dudess put my sentiments best in her last post.

On that note, back to what I said a while back, and back to the real topic.

I can appreciate that the title of the thread and especially in showing up on the front page might be seen to cast the website in a bad light. Should this aspect of posting being considered on the site as a whole? Yes. A poster shoul Playing to one of the more extreme demographcs I am thinking about Parents and Teachers, and the EDU section, where quite a few users come on to the site from an early age (anywhere above the age of 13) to use boards as a learning aide, usually referred by one of their friends or a teacher.

The fact is at that age (13-16) you might see a title like that, take it on as something that might be acceptable to say, and carry it on into reality. Obviously the wider demographic of boardsies knows the difference between what is said on the internet and what is said on the street but you can't make that generalisation for everyone.

Ultimately its your site DeV and this is a fundamental issue about what tone you want to place on the site. Kind of in the same flavor as not allowing political soap-boxing, racist undertones or limitations on asking for legal/personal/medical advice. As I understand it you want this to be an Irish site by Irish, for all Irish (and esteemed guests). Thats what separates it from say... PULSE. Lovely chaps, them.

randylonghorn

Jack B. Badd wrote: »

I doubt it was done to persecute you for your ill-advised thread title.

I agree, Jack, and indeed Thaed has made that quite clear ... but Boards being Boards a strong element of that has crept in, and from some quite unexpected quarters.

DeVore wrote: »

Yeah, why you should be held accountable for what you write? Thats just crazy talk...

DeV.

Unfair, DeV, and adequately answered in Overheal's response immediately after your post.

EDIT: And by the way, I still feel it was unfair after reading your response.

The line you picked out and quoted in isolation is part of a longer post, and reads quite differently in that context.

As so many people have pointed out on this thread ... it's the context!

Jack B. Badd wrote: »

You appear to be blowing your "public tarring and feathering" out of all proportion.

Perhaps a little, Jack, but not very much imho. At this stage, I have a great deal of sympathy for the position in which Overheal finds himself.

For the record, my original contribution to this thread. I have not changed my view.

randylonghorn wrote: »

Have to say I read the title more as a take-off / mockery of the type of language which would be used in gangsta rap, bad American films & tv, or indeed pornos than as in any way indicating the OP's actual attitude to women.

As such I didn't see it as either misogynistic or intended to be offensive.

I regularly see stuff in AH which worries me far more, especially in terms of the xenophobic attitudes of the posters, not because I think sexism is less abhorrent than xenophobia, but because the way such posters express themselves makes it very difficult to believe that they are anything but wholly serious.


(Just to be clear, my last comment is intended not as a criticism of the mods, but of the posters themselves.)

Tbh, I find it depressing that so many people are still ranting on about what I would see as at worst an error of judgement as to "the line" when it comes to humour, and one which has been retracted long ago, when rampant xenophobia is evident from a certain sector of the posters in AH every day, yet no-one seems to feel the need to discuss that for 260+ posts.

Is this a reflection of Irish society to-day?

I fear it may be ...

Dudess

randylonghorn wrote: »

Have to say I read the title more as a take-off / mockery of the type of language which would be used in gangsta rap, bad American films & tv, or indeed pornos than as in any way indicating the OP's actual attitude to women.

As such I didn't see it as either misogynistic or intended to be offensive.

Spot-on - I don't like the language and I'm not very comfortable with it being used as the thread title, but that's still how I viewed it. Overheal's no chauvinist. It was satirical.
And yes, there is unbelievably horrible sh1t hurled up on After Hours day in, day out, which is unfortunately... not satirical.