Feedback requested "...bitch..."

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

since when do you have the right to not be offended? I always understood it to be the right to not to be insulted.. which is why people are banned for insults as opposed to opinions. If you find a post offensive, be sure to skip over it the next time you happen to be reading that thread. If you find a post containing abuse directed at a poster, or a group then report that and the mods will decide. The problem here was that the mods did decide and instead of accepting that, you just tried to kick up more of a fuss.
You might have been offended, but you weren't insulted. It's not in the charter that I or any mod have to protect your feelings.

Kold

CuLT wrote: »

Everyone's a little bit sexist
Sometimes.
Doesn't mean we go
Around committing sex crimes.
Look around and you will find
No one's really gender blind.
Maybe it's a fact
We all should face
Everyone makes judgments
Based on sex
If we all could just admit
That we are sexist a little bit,
And everyone stopped being
So PC
Maybe we could live in -
Harmony!~

Shamelessly adapted from Avenue Q

Saw that in London, good fun.

Dinter

seamus wrote: »

Misogyny is an overall hatred or mistrust of women. Hating one woman or even one hundred women doesn't make one a misogynist. The word "bitch" is generally directed at an individual, therefore isn't misogynistic.

Actually to clarify, in the thread title the word bitch is being used about women in general so therefore, whether or not the poster is a mysogynist the statement is. Unless the bitches were quantified in which case it wouldn't be.

Dragan wrote: »

Or is it different when a dude says it?

Because, frankly, that would be sexist.

As I said already it didn't offend me but I could see why it would offend some.

star-pants

Just had a quick read over this whole thread. I recall the thread in AH, I don't remember noticing anything offending about the title, maybe I didn't even notice the word B***h?

However, I can see how some people might get offended by it, but I do not see how changing it to 'babe' or 'darling' would make it acceptable. If b***h is unacceptable because it's creating the image of a female being told what to do, sure babe and other such words do the same thing? 'Take this, b***h' or 'Take this, babe' ... really the context that it would be in results in the same thing. Woman being told to do something. Adding terms of affection hardly make it more acceptable. That's where I fail to concur with those who think that b***h is wrong but babe (etc) is ok.

As others have pointed out, it doesn't necessarily mean just women, heck I call male friends b***h jokingly. Not saying that some shouldn't be offended, if they're offended that's fine - report posts and perhaps changes should be made. I just mean that if the title had babe in it instead (to me) it still draws up a picture of someone (a woman probably) being told what to do. Assumidly that's the issue - so where do you draw the line as they say. I know women who hate being called babe, they find it derogatory. So it's just somewhat amusing to me to have people say b***h isn't allowed but babe is quite acceptable.

Either way, doesn't really bother me, I read the opening post and that was that. Didn't give it a second.

castie

CuLT wrote: »

Everyone's a little bit sexist
Sometimes.
Doesn't mean we go
Around committing sex crimes.
Look around and you will find
No one's really gender blind.
Maybe it's a fact
We all should face
Everyone makes judgments
Based on sex
If we all could just admit
That we are sexist a little bit,
And everyone stopped being
So PC
Maybe we could live in -
Harmony!~

Shamelessly adapted from Avenue Q

avenuuuueeee Q i got a tshirt too

Tigger

Pighead wrote: »

Pighead didn't have a single post in that thread.;)

what he said

seamus

Dinter wrote: »

Actually to clarify, in the thread title the word bitch is being used about women in general so therefore, whether or not the poster is a mysogynist the statement is.

I disagree. The word "bitch" doesn't necessarily have a hatred connotation. Just like when a guy calls his mate "Prickface", doesn't mean that he hates him.

At best it implies a belief of dominance of man/subservience of women. Which isn't the same as misogyny.

Tigger

the thread name got changed

why

(not that i disagree but i'm wondering why it was changed)

KnifeWRENCH

If people were offended by it, fair enough. They're entitled their opinion. But it was fairly obvious to me that the title was tongue-in-cheek and I do not find it offensive/sexist/misogynist, and I know that wasn't Overheal's intention - come on, he's hardly John McCrirrick now is he?

Also, given the context of the thread, would "babe" or "darling" really have been less offensive? if I saw the title "Swallow Babe, it's for your own good" first thing I'd think of was someone violating a cute, innocent little piglet! And that would have been much more offensive.

stovelid

Dragan wrote: »

Okay Thae, please don't take this personally as it is simply a point i am making, but you did, in a way, NOT follow boards policy.

You saw a thread title that offended you and yes, you reported it. Then you took the subject that you felt had offended you and started a thread about it in another forum, with a relatively targetted audience and appeal about the dialogue in porn and how it affects us.

Then you mentioned within that thread the AH thread that started off the thoughts. In a way, you drummed up a small campaign about this, rather than reporting it and seeing it fly off into the ether to be acted upon or not as other users do.

I'm very sorry, but i am just seeing a double standard here. You were offended, you reported. If other people are offended, you say they should report it.

Should they then start discussion about it in a Forum where it doesn't belong, selling the idea to a limited portion of boards that may be considered to be a bit biased in its view?

+1.

So I take it the normal report and wait procedure can now be disregarded by all boardsies, regardless of post count or whether they are a mod or not?

If I, say, see a thread title in AH that I consider to be homophobic, I can start a thread about it in the LGB forum, see it brought to Feedback, see (at time of posting) my gripe voted down by other users in Feedback, but still get the title changed, despite the thread in question being originally reported by two users?

Tigger

square_igloo wrote: »

he's hardly John McCrirrick now is he?

no but thats not really a defence for things

Tigger

stovelid wrote: »

+1.

So I take it the normal report and wait procedure can now be disregarded by all boardsies, regardless of post count or whether they are a mod or not?

If I, say, see a thread title in AH that I consider to be homophobic, I can start a thread about it in the LGB forum, see it brought to Feedback, see (at time of posting) my gripe voted down by other users in Feedback, but still get the title changed, despite the thread in question being originally reported by two users?

yes
also if you are looking for homophobia may i suggest the god bothers forum

very homophobia in there

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

^ post reported for anti religious bigotry

Dinter

seamus wrote: »

I disagree. The word "bitch" doesn't necessarily have a hatred connotation. Just like when a guy calls his mate "Prickface", doesn't mean that he hates him.

At best it implies a belief of dominance of man/subservience of women. Which isn't the same as misogyny.

I'd completely agree that the meaning of any insult can change depending on the context it's used in. Let's cut to the chase though, "bitch" like "prickface" is an insult and it is you and your relationship with the person you're speaking to that allows them to infer that you mean it as a joke.

However in this example, there is no context, no limitations and no delineation. The phrase "Swallow bitch", because it applies to all women equally, can't be anything but a mysogynistic statement.

I don't see how Bitch implys a belief in dominence/subserviance etc though. It seems to me that it's just an insult. Babe etc on the other hand would strike me as patronising but that wasn't the title.

Mr. Presentable

seamus wrote: »

I disagree. The word "bitch" doesn't necessarily have a hatred connotation. Just like when a guy calls his mate "Prickface", doesn't mean that he hates him.

At best it implies a belief of dominance of man/subservience of women. Which isn't the same as misogyny.

Correct. In some sub cultures it's actually used as a term of endearment (albeit shrouded in machismo).

WindSock

stovelid wrote: »

If I, say, see a thread title in AH that I consider to be homophobic, I can start a thread about it in the LGB forum, see it brought to Feedback, see (at time of posting) my gripe voted down by other users in Feedback, but still get the title changed, despite the thread in question being originally reported by two users?

If the thread title said ''Swallow it you little ******'' I doubt you would be the only person reporting it.

WindSock

Eh?, I didn't even realise Faggot was blocked out. huh.

Kold

Fagg0t is a blanket burn for all gay men. Bitch isn't. Then again I don't either should be off limits to anyone. Like the N word. Words are just words, something is wrong when you can't use one out of fear of consequence, even if you have no use for it.

WindSock

Bitch may be a burn for some gay men but like I said before, it's not the word, it's how the word is used.

Kold

WindSock wrote: »

Bitch may be a burn for some gay men but like I said before, it's not the word, it's how the word is used.

You mean like a lyrical spear that stabs your offensive receptors?

Earthhorse

That's some good tagging whoever tagged this thread.

Edit: Just for clarity I'm talking about the

99 problems

tag.

kaimera

Dinter wrote: »

Well tbh "swallow darling, it's for your own good" sounds like someone trying to get someone they love to, I dunno, take distasteful medicine or something. Or a person in an equal couple making playful use of an article they'd read in the paper about swallowing semen for your health.

However "swallow bitch" conjures an image of a woman huddled, crying on the ground with a man stood over her with his hand raised after driving a meaty kick into her side as punishment for her temerity in refusing.

Not quite the same image at all really.

You don't think they can be interchanged and used in the same context?

I know a few women who don't like the use of 'darling'...pretty condescending etc.

javaboy

Kold wrote: »

Fagg0t is a blanket burn for all gay men. Bitch isn't. Then again I don't either should be off limits to anyone. Like the N word. Words are just words, something is wrong when you can't use one out of fear of consequence, even if you have no use for it.

A ****** is also a ball of liver (I think) with herbs you eat. I know someone who worked in a butchers who ate a big plate of them for a bet just like Cool Hand Luke but with ******s instead of eggs.

It can also mean a bundle of sticks.

I'm fed up of having my posts on obscure English delicacies and eh.. bundles of sticks censored just because some people have abused the word. Fight da powah! etc.

Dinter

kaimera wrote: »

You don't think they can be interchanged and used in the same context?

I know a few women who don't like the use of 'darling'...pretty condescending etc.

I understand that. I'm not arguing that one's somehow better than the other.

However could you really shout "swallow, darling" as you tried to stomp a womans head into the ground? Does "swallow, bitch" not sound more edgy and dangerous?

How then are they interchangeable?? Sorry but bitch, because of its violent connotations, is not interchangeable with patronising platitudes.

Frisbee

Wasnt offended and I think its kinda obvious that the OP didnt mean it in a malicious way in order to offend/insult anyone

Jack B. Badd

My 2c: It's an issue of context imo. In the same way that adding Bitch to teh line "make me dinner" turns it from an inoffensive (if impolite) request to perform a non-degrading act into a derogatory command in certain contexts, adding Bitch to the request "swallow" does the same thing. I don't think the OP meant it in an insulting/offensive manner and was probably just going for shock value with the title. That said, what is shocking is often controversial and given the usual sexist/misogynistic/misandrist comments bandied around he probably should have realised that this was going to create some hassle...

Tigger

Mordeth wrote: »

^ post reported for anti religious bigotry

bitch

Kinetic^

After hours, serious bitchiness.

Overheal

Miss Thaed if I have my story straight (and I like to think that I do) you reported the Original Post within a few hours, correct?

So, you reported the post, and I must assume like all of us have at some stage or another you became impatient waiting for modly intervention.

So now, indirectly (though I won't say unintentionally), you have dragged my name through the mud both here, and in The Ladies Lounge.

I would have hoped that knowing me, you might have thought to PM me about your concerns so that I might be able to go ahead and make the change myself. I wasn't out to offend anyone, and on mention of any offense would have gladly fixed it myself.

Now however, I've been called everything from mysogynistic to socially and sexually inept in this thread, and I have yet to read over the Ladies Lounge, so I don't even know what kind of malevolence awaits for me there.

You raised no objection within the thread, having posted in there several times - so it certainly wasn't a topic that was beneath you personally. That fact, coupled with this thread, your reports, other reports (may I assume they were directed there via TLL?) and the Ladies Lounge Thread all stink of childishness - in the future, feel welcome to address your concerns to me directly at some point before I log in one day to learn I am the subject of sitewide scrutiny.

You will receive no apology and I will expect none. Good Day.

metrovelvet

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055399764&page=3

See post 42. Sexism and racism all rolled into one. You're going to have some words edited maybe?

Do you know how crazy boards is with its PC hypersentivity?