Feedback requested "...bitch..."

Karoma

There's a thread title in After Hours: "Swallow bitch, its for your health!"
We have received one or two reported posts (literally) complaining about the "misogynistic" thread title.

I can understand that some will take offense at the title (and maybe the content) of the thread; that does not necessarily mean it's offensive.
To those of you offended, I ask: why didn't you report the thread?

Where do we draw the line re: language used?








No action has been taken up to this point as I don't see any malice in the OP's intentions, there has been a disproportionate number of reports to the number of views of the thread, and because I don't want a Politically Correct AH or to be accused of it, etc.
The thread has been moved to Feedback where the moderation is out of AH moderators hands.
There is an anonymous poll added - if you're going to post, please back your post/vote up with something worthwhile.

brianthebard

Not offended and think it was quite obvious that the title was ironic.

GhostInTheRuins

If people are offended by stuff like that then AH is not the place for them quite frankly

Karoma

GhostInTheRuins wrote: »

If people are offended by stuff like that then AH is not the place for them quite frankly

One of the arguments so far has been that the thread title appears on the front page, and is seen by those who would otherwise ignore the thread and AH.

Caoimhín

I suppose some older lady members may be a bit put out by it. Although i never like any lady being addressed as a bitch, in the context of the post i think it is reasonable if a little crude.

But i think Karoma wont pay any heed of my opinion in light of my comments regarding a certain train trip.

4zn76tysfajdxp

This really is a non-issue, it's After Hours ffs.

Nerin

I'm not offended by it,and see it as a joke. But if people are offended i can understand why. Its hard to decide whats allowed in AH i guess,i try to steer clear of it,because some of the responses there annoy me,and i wouldn't bother reporting them,due to the type of attitude displayed by ghost in the ruins. Screw that,telling people they should keep out of Ah discussions if they don't like those types of responses is silly.

Havermeyer

I didn't find it offensive. Title is a bit tongue in cheek IMO.

No offense intended.

lordgoat

I don't post in AH but i do browse when bored. The thread prob isn't offensive to regular posters but i think the OP went for a shock value title. That said the use of bitch in such fashion would probably result in a ban on any other fora.

mikedragon32

easily shocked pc crowd wrote:

The interwebs burnses meh eyes!

It's a harmless and humorous title in the context. Some folk are just looking to be offended, imho.

Nevyn

Wow and the this thread title is not skewing the debate or feed back ?
grow up.
and there you were laughing at me saying that people don't report posts in AH due to the attitude of the mods, thank you for such a prime example.

AlmightyCushion

If the thread title had bastard in it, I'd doubt anyone would have complained.

For example I don't remember anyone complaining about the use of the word bastard in these threads.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055386291&highlight=bastard
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055381921&highlight=bastard

Used in a similar way to the way bitch was used on that thread yet no-one deemed it offensive. Double standards.

tbh

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

If the thread title had bastard in it, I'd doubt anyone would have complained.

I think Kevin Myers might have a story to tell you about a similar situation

Nerin

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

If the thread title had bastard in it, I'd doubt anyone would have complained.

For example I don't remember anyone complaining about the use of the word bastard in these threads.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055386291&highlight=bastard
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055381921&highlight=bastard

Used in a similar way to the way bitch was used on that thread yet no-one deemed it offensive. Double standards.

again? If people don't report and complain, whats ve point bringing it up. Guys weren't offended,or didn't bring it up. But when someone is offended,how can you use 'well this didn't offend,double standards etc' as an excuse?

Nevyn

Diffference in thread title and thread content.

AlmightyCushion the context of those two threads are completely different to the one that this thread is about.

tony1kenobi

If the thread title was in the animals and pet issues forum it wouldn't raise a hair. It is the title, subject and content together that makes it offensive to those offended. This means that they read some portion of the thread before reporting it. It is one of those occasions when a book should have been judged by its cover. I don't watch medical programs on tv because I don't find someone having their bits torn open entertaining....I am also a pussy. So any shows that fall into that category stay off my telly.....and I don't feel the need to complain that that I puked in my dinner at the sight of someone having fat sucked out of their stomach. I also don't watch Americas Next Top Model....but that's because it's dung.

Havermeyer

Karoma wrote: »

One of the arguments so far has been that the thread title appears on the front page, and is seen by those who would otherwise ignore the thread and AH.

There was a thread in AH recently entitled "Would you travel to peru to eat pussy". This was on the front page also.

A title like this could also offend someone not familiar with AH.

Any complaints about this? Or are people picking and choosing what they complain about?

RobertFoster

So "bitch" is a bad word again? Good to be back in primary school.

The title on its own could be seen as offensive. However, given the context of the thread and the forum itself, you can see the OP was going for humour, albeit a little crude.

"YORE MA" could be seen as offensive too, but are there many reported posts about that?

AlmightyCushion

Nerin wrote: »

again? If people don't report and complain, whats ve point bringing it up. Guys weren't offended,or didn't bring it up. But when someone is offended,how can you use 'well this didn't offend,double standards etc' as an excuse?

Karoma isn't asking about offensiveness. He's asking about where we should draw the line with regards to language used. Bastard is pretty similar a word to bitch, yet the same people who don't like the use of the word bitch don't protest the use of the word bastard.

Dudess

Wow! 19 posts and no "political correctness gone mad" comments!

Nevyn

nummnutts wrote: »

There was a thread in AH recently entitled "Would you travel to peru to eat pussy". This was on the front page also.

A title like this could also offend someone not familiar with AH.

Wow AH poster who can't tell the difference between bawdy humour with a double entendre and offensive and degoratory statement.

chalad07

Sorry i'm new to all this, but i was under the impression that After Hours was supposed to be tongue in cheek and not really meant for serious discussions.

As far as i can see if it's not taken seriously then it shouldnt be construed as offensive. It's not as if the guy who started this was being misogynistic, or trying to offend the fairer sex,

Storm in a teacup,

Nevyn

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Karoma isn't asking about offensiveness. He's asking about where we should draw the line with regards to language used. Bastard is pretty similar a word to bitch, yet the same people who don't like the use of the word bitch don't protest the use of the word bastard.

You are stripping the context and connotation of the phrase by trying to make it a simple matter of bitch vs bastard.

It is the use of the term bitch in the context of the thread title which is derogatory.

Havermeyer

Wow AH poster who can't tell the difference between bawdy humour with a double entendre and offensive and degoratory statement.

Before you go jumping to conclusions there, if you understood my post correctly, you'd see that yes I am an Ah poster. I get the joke. But regarding the argument about this thread title appearing on the front page, people who don't read AH might not get your little double entendre.

Karl Hungus

GhostInTheRuins wrote: »

If people are offended by stuff like that then THE INTERNET is not the place for them quite frankly

Fixed your post.

GhostInTheRuins

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Fixed your post.

Dead on

Bob the Builder

Don't you just love the Politically-Correct Patrol...
You're dammed if you do, and if you don't, then your not informing people of important sexual health issues.

RobertFoster

Dudess wrote: »

Wow! 19 posts and no "political correctness gone mad" comments!

OMG! You're so disable-ist!

Nehaxak

Stop linking threads and titles from threads from AH on the main page then ?
You have to protect your business (boards.ie) and understand that there may well be some people who use the boards that would take offense at the thread title, without even reading the content.

I don't find the words nor the content offensive but I would understand how some others might, especially those that never ventured into AH before or those that might have a reserved or conservative view on this type of thing.

Thread could equally have been about female dogs though I know it wasn't but still. Seen plenty of other comments (mostly from trolls) in threads within AH that I have taken offense at. The word "bitch" is extremely mild when compared.

AlmightyCushion

Thaedydal wrote: »

You are stripping the context and connotation of the phrase by trying to make it a simple matter of bitch vs bastard.

It is the use of the term bitch in the context of the thread title which is derogatory.

Well as I have said numerous times before when things like this arise, if someone was to refer to men as bastards/cúnts/whatever I wouldn't remove it either.

Nehaxak

Could also change the word "bitch" to "fag" and the contents of the story within to refer to gays instead of women - bet you wouldn't get as many complaints then.

Or maybe you would...

I dunno

4zn76tysfajdxp

Thaedydal wrote: »

Wow and the this thread title is not skewing the debate or feed back ?
grow up.
and there you were laughing at me saying that people don't report posts in AH due to the attitude of the mods, thank you for such a prime example.

Yeah. Jesus Karoma, why don't you give threads about blowjobs the respect they deserve?

Gordon

I think the problem with the thread was the fact that the user created the thread title hence showing him up as having possible misogynistic tendencies, or extremely youthful inexperience concerning wordplay towards women (and men). If anyone should be lambasted it should be him for choosing the thread title, it is a rather poor choice of word mixture. And the thread was the perfect place for such distaste to be lambasted upon, because it's Afterhours, the MacDonalds of boards digestable content, practically anything goes there.

What exactly is the problem, the fact that someone posted the title, the fact that it was not edited by a moderator, the fact that the thread was allowed to be discussed? Would it be ok if the title was changed to "Swallow, you, it's for your health"? Or if it was "Swallow, babe, it's for your health" would it be ok?

Don't get me wrong, AH should have boundaries, and it does, the mods are great on AH and they have a really f*cking tough job, but where exactly is that boundary in this case? And how can we have boundaries enough to not detract from the very thing that makes Afterhours special - The Cheeseburger.

Nerin

Nehaxak wrote: »

Could also change the word "bitch" to "fag" and the contents of the story within to refer to gays instead of women - bet you wouldn't get as many complaints then.

Or maybe you would...

I dunno

if i knew whether fag was allowed or not,i'd report it. But i don't really know.

Karoma

Thaedydal wrote: »

Wow and the this thread title is not skewing the debate or feed back ?
grow up.
and there you were laughing at me saying that people don't report posts in AH due to the attitude of the mods, thank you for such a prime example.

Aimed at me? It's the word that's offensive... it's...what?! *boggles* Double quotes added. I somehow doubt it'll be enough.

There was a thread in AH recently entitled "Would you travel to peru to eat pussy". This was on the front page also.
...
Any complaints about this? Or are people picking and choosing what they complain about?

Picking and choosing. In fairness, that's not a direct comparison. There's context to be considered, not just the double-entendre.

Galvasean

Can't really see why it poses such a big problem. It's AH. Everything is a bit mad/tongue-in-cheek there.
Okay granted the B word showing up on the title page might be a problem. Maybe the title should be censored as not to draw unnecessary attention from passers by who might not 'get' AH.

Karoma wrote: »

Picking and choosing. In fairness, that's not a direct comparison. There's context to be considered, not just the double-entendre.

Well 'eating pussy' would show up on the homepage too so IMO it's on the same level as the 'Bitches' title.

dr.bollocko

Swallow bitch, it's good for your health.
If that sentence, in its context, was ever used in a real life situation it would be construed as offensive.
Unless being a sub is your kink.
To say something like "I had a bitch of a day" or "Ain't life a bitch" is quite different to the literal meaning of this thread and to its placement on AH. The glorious altar of boards. The glowing beacon of this forum. The finger on the pulse of the nation.
I love AH. I hate censorship, but when I saw that, I was fairly shocked it wasnt locked away all nicely or editted all ninja like cos it just comes across as juvenile.
But of course I am what your granny may refer to as a gentleman.

St Bill

Is it usually the case that if a thread/post is reported, the moderator can drag the whole topic through After Hours to make fun of the fact that it was reported? If so, there doesn't seem to be any function for the report post/thread button other than to make a show of anybody who uses it.

Regarding the original thread in After Hours, I found it offensive. And as some other people have said, it's almost as if After Hours is over-run with people of a frat boy mind set. Usually with threads in After Hours, I think 'they're not getting any in real life' and move on. But I was surprised to see that the 'swallow' thread was allowed. The over-riding impression I get from the 'swallow' thread is that it's harmless to talk about women in a derogatory way. And on top of that, if anybody dares to say they're offended and report the thread, they'll be made fun of in After Hours. I suppose that's another way of telling people what they should and shouldn't be saying....make fun of them in public.

Nevyn

If the word pussy is an issue for the front page then request that it be put on the same word filter as anal. The word anal can from time to time appear in the title of PI threads and a request was made to have it starred out when such thread show up on the front page and it was done.

Gordon wrote: »

I think the problem with the thread was the fact that the user created the thread title hence showing him up as having possible misogynistic tendencies, or extremely youthful inexperience concerning wordplay towards women (and men). If anyone should be lambasted it should be him for choosing the thread title, it is a rather poor choice of word mixture. And the thread was the perfect place for such distaste to be lambasted upon, because it's Afterhours, the MacDonalds of boards digestable content, practically anything goes there.

I didn't see the point of attacking him as it is not the thunderdome,
I followed what is boards policy and reported the post.

Gordon wrote: »

What exactly is the problem, the fact that someone posted the title, the fact that it was not edited by a moderator, the fact that the thread was allowed to be discussed?

Title is the issue.

Gordon wrote: »

Would it be ok if the title was changed to "Swallow, you, it's for your health"? Or if it was "Swallow, babe, it's for your health" would it be ok?

Either of those imho would be acceptable.

Gordon wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, AH should have boundaries, and it does, the mods are great on AH and they have a really f*cking tough job, but where exactly is that boundary in this case? And how can we have boundaries enough to not detract from the very thing that makes Afterhours special - The Cheeseburger.

Funny there are boundaries when it comes to racism but not sexism.

Macha

Ok, it says in AH forum that racism isn't allowed. And accordingly, a guy who made racist comments about Americans in a "Most controversial opinion" thread was banned.

So why is it not allowed to say derogatory/discriminatory/offensive things about people of another race, but it's OK to use a derogatory term for women? I suppose it's all about consistency, that way people know where they stand.

dang - you got in there before me Thaedydal

Edit: I was a bit offended but that offense was tempered by the fact that it's AH..

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

this is some seriously ridiculous **** right here.

Nerin

this thread isn't helping my confusion on whats ok,what isn't on after hours. The *******s don't understand why the term 'swallow and bitch' are annoying the ******s. People are accusing people of being anal,or should i say ****(?). And i'm just more and more confused by what other boards***s think is ok. I'm one confused boards***.

AlmightyCushion

Nerin wrote: »

this thread isn't helping my confusion on whats ok,what isn't on after hours. The *******s don't understand why the term 'swallow and bitch' are annoying the ******s. People are accusing people of being anal,or should i say ****(?). And i'm just more and more confused by what other boards***s think is ok. I'm one confused boards***.

It's really quite simple. ***** and **** are not acceptable under any circumstances but *****, **** and ***** are acceptable and will result in all users showering your post with thanks.

dr.bollocko

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

It's really quite simple. ***** and **** are not acceptable under any circumstances but *****, **** and ***** are acceptable and will result in all users showering your post with thanks.

*****!

Nerin

*faints*

Gordon

I find it a bit strange that by changing the negatively connotated word "bitch" to a more positive connotation of "babe" can delete the sexism aspect of the sentence. The sentence still has connotations of an instruction to a woman to swallow a mans bodily fluids, if you ask me. So in essence the problem is not the dominative demanding aspect of the title but the connotation that 'woman' is seen in a negative light as opposed to positive? But the dominative, demanding aspect is still ok?

If that's the case then a simple thread title edit shouldn't be a problem. I'm still a bit confused about the sexism aspect though.

dr.bollocko

Gordon wrote: »

I find it a bit strange that by changing the negatively connotated word "bitch" to a more positive connotation of "babe" can delete the sexism aspect of the sentence.

#1
hey buddy. I don't see what the problem is.
#2
Hey bastard, I don't see what your problem is.

Not an insult at all BTW. Just trying to show you the that it is the context in which we use these words which controls why they are offensive.

Nevyn

The use of the term babe softens it to a request rather then a macho porn like demand or command. The orginal reported post for the title was not for sexism but for being

disrespectful and frankly misogynistic

Steve

Not particularly offended but my 2c on the first post -

It the title was meant to be funny then some humorous or witty banter in the post (which the OP is more than capable of) would have justified it - as it stands, it's just an article quote with a not so funny comment added.

Had I been a mod there, I would probably have moved it to S&S where outside of the title, the article would have some actual relevance (and maybe convince the OP to part with some loot to follow it ).

Which leads me to

Thaedydal wrote: »

Title is the issue.

Would you have allowed it there (by changing the title)?

Nevyn

If it had of been moved to S&S then yes I would have edit the title but let the thread remain.

Dyr

And how would do you like your tea?

Stormy please, with two lumps of righteous indignation and a slice of high horse as well please




lordy, what a palaver