FF Voters - Please apologise here.....

marco murphy

What is democracy?

Agamemnon

earlyevening wrote: »

What do you want? Anarchy? Somalia has no government. Lets try that. They also have no electricity.
Its not just FF you hate, but democracy. Jeepers.

Eh? WTF are you babbling about? Was that supposed to be a reply to someone else's post? I want our politicians to serve our interests, not theirs. I want our public representatives to take their obligations to us (their financiers) seriously, and stop treating their jobs as a gravy train. That's the whole point of democracy.

earlyevening

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

but unless you like watching the rich get richer and poor suffer...

Society wouldn't work too well if the rich got poorer despite working while the poor prospered despite being idle.
Its about balance. Allow the rich to achieve most of their aims and give the poor a few quid to squander in the bookies and get locked down the local on the weekend.
FF look after the centre ground and are a populist party. They'll happily abandon principles and move as society moves - thus ensuring they'll stay in power as often as possible.
Really, they're not as bad as some of you make out. The venom is unreal. They're just a group of men and women doing their jobs and their views are centre ground and shouldn't really arouse so much anger. You gotta learn to love 'em. You might be happier. If you can't beat 'em...

Anyway, its been fun. Goodnight.

javaboy

Stekelly wrote: »

What are people appologising for now? the world economy going into the crapper?

No. For voting for a government who took no measures to protect the country against it.

I assume people think that an Enda Kenny led government would have been announcing mass tax cuts and free money for all on Tues?

I don't think people want mass tax cuts and free money. It's insulting to people who have genuine complaints about the FF government to make out that they just want free money.

Personally I think FG would have been far more fiscally responsible during the boom years had they been in power. No government could have completely shielded us from the effects of a global downturn but I think FG wouldn't have indulged in giveaway budgets the way FF have.

Wurly

Rebeller wrote: »

Attachment not found.

Oh jesus. What's that in his teeth??

/vomit.:(

Wurly

funk-you wrote: »

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/member.php?u=165435

Joan is a Boardsie!

-Funk

I really like her, I have to say.:)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

earlyevening wrote: »

Society wouldn't work too well if the rich got poorer despite working while the poor prospered despite being idle.
Its about balance. Allow the rich to achieve most of their aims and give the poor a few quid to squander in the bookies and get locked down the local on the weekend.
FF look after the centre ground and are a populist party. They'll happily abandon principles and move as society moves - thus ensuring they'll stay in power as often as possible.
Really, they're not as bad as some of you make out. The venom is unreal. They're just a group of men and women doing their jobs and their views are centre ground and shouldn't really arouse so much anger. You gotta learn to love 'em. You might be happier. If you can't beat 'em...

Anyway, its been fun. Goodnight.

"Balance"...?! Like the banks are "balancing" right now? Like the "balanced" Budget we just received?

They are every bit as bad as people make out, becauset they put money before people. They could have easily kept people happy during the boom while planning for the furture and taken the chance to improve on infrastructure.

It works in Scandanavia, because they put people first, not money.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

way to go - our proud irish government - bail out your banking buds , bail put yer builder buds , then screw the people , after crapping on them for the last god knows how many years.

picking on the OLD for fcuks sake , and taxing even the minimum wage.

enjoy the next three , cos its yer last ,

lots of people will sit there and take it like the dimwits they are - but this time - I reckon you've gone too far.


and you forget can about Lisbon an all :mad:

mickos

I have to say I can now apoligise whole heartedly for voting FF at the last election. I have been absoloutely sickened by what has gone on of late. If anybody could at least put up their hands and say we ****ed up but give us a chance and we'll make it right i'd give them some credit but thats not in their nature is it. Bertie couldn't do it, he sooner wasted tax payers money lying through his teeth in the tribunals and i'm damn sure none of the shower in now will do it either.
What sickened me most about the budget was offering mortgages to citzens who earn over 40 grand. Keep house prices inflated and the developers and banks happy.
I personnaly don't think we;ll have to wait the 4 years to get rid of them if some of the backbenchers can grow a backbone and revolt it could collapse long before then.
As for where to go next I have no idea I hate the thoughts of voting FG and I won't if Enda is still in charge. I possibly would if Richard Bruton took over he seems decent enough. but I think we need something completely new from what I can see the majority of TD's have no concept of reality.

junkyard

ninty9er wrote: »

We pay for Garrett and Albert's chariots, what's the problem.

@OP: Why exactly do you expect people to apologise for voting FF?

edit: and wtf is with the fascination with negative equity....it means diddly squat to any homeowner.

This kind of attitude sums up the typical brassnecked FF supporter, I honestly think they really are a different breed.

javaboy

mickos wrote: »

As for where to go next I have no idea I hate the thoughts of voting FG and I won't if Enda is still in charge. I possibly would if Richard Bruton took over he seems decent enough. but I think we need something completely new from what I can see the majority of TD's have no concept of reality.

Richard Bruton will become Finance Minister if FG get in. That's the most important ministry and the one that needs the most attention at the moment. To a certain extent, he would be wasted as party leader because of all the crap that goes with it like opening pubs and presenting shamrock to the US president etc. As Minister for Finance he would be able to get on with his job.

mickos

javaboy wrote: »

Richard Bruton will become Finance Minister if FG get in. That's the most important ministry and the one that needs the most attention at the moment. To a certain extent, he would be wasted as party leader because of all the crap that goes with it like opening pubs and presenting shamrock to the US president etc. As Minister for Finance he would be able to get on with his job.

well they may get someone else in for party leader Kenny makes my skin crawl. Ivan yeats was a good man when he was in the party, any chance he'd ever go back to politics?

heyjude

mickdw wrote: »

It is a very underhand budget though. that 1% levy is really dirty.

What is the purpose of the minimum wage ? What is the purpose of having income tax exemptions for low paid workers ? Presumably to protect the lowest paid workers in the country, why then introduce a levy on all income, even that earned by those not in the tax net ? That is dirty, you're right, even if you were being flippant. That levy might be enough to make some low paid workers forget about work altogether, I mean social welfare payments aren't liable to this levy, but the wages of workers on the minimum wage are.

snyper wrote: »

More money pumped into the health service than any other government? Wheres it all gone? Ask the consultants ..oh no..wait dont do that.. because if Mary Harney tries to get answers.. they'l just picket.

Schools, again - millions pumped into education, and many new schools, the teacher pupil ratio is lower now that it was - we have one of the highest standards of education in europe.

And public transport infrastructure? Unless you dont get out very much, there has been massive investment and massive upgrading of our road netword. If you want to tell me a story about a pothole on your road in south Kerry good for you, but look at the motorways that have been rolled out over the last few years alone..

Any trained monkey could spend billions, the reason why we supposedly pay government ministers over 200k per year is to ensure that it is spent in a way that produces the desired result at the lowest cost. As Michael O'Leary said before, if he went to his shareholders looking for millions to buy new aircraft, the shareholders would want to know the cost, how he intended to use them and what the benefits(profits etc) would be and if they okayed the spending and the benefits weren't delivered he'd be in trouble. Yet when ministers ask for billions to do something, if its a success they claim the credit, if not they blame someone else. Nobody could claim with a straight face that we have got good value for money for all we have spent and as for the teacher pupil ratio being lower than it once was, its still one of the highest in Europe, which isn't acceptable given that not so long ago the government was claiming we were the third wealthiest country in the world !

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

FF, while nowhere near perfect, were (and still are) the best/most experienced option out of a bad lot.

How is anyone else to get experience if you never give them a chance ? How experienced were Brian Cowan, Brian Lenihan, etc before they went into government for the first time ? No matter how much experience someone has, everyone has a first day in the job. You could also say that FF are the most experienced at overseeing the end of the Celtic Tiger and leading the country into recession.

square_igloo wrote: »

I look at Fianna Fail and I see a group of imperfect, yet determined and dedicated, politicians who have done a good job overall of leading this country for the past 11 years.

FF are determined to do whatever it takes to stay in power and milk the system for every advantage they can get and they are dedicated to enriching not only themselves but the powerful lobby groups such as the builders and publicans. Remember when Alan Dukes tried to introduce VAT on childrens shoes the way Fianna Fail set on him and hounded him out and now they withdraw medical cards for the elderly, which is probably even worse as it could cost lives. Dedicated......:(

square_igloo wrote: »

I look at Fine Gael and I see a bunch of sneering clowns who bitch and moan at every oppurtunity instead of offering anything productive

The first job of the opposition is to oppose hence the name, Fianna Fail characterise this as bitching and moaning, yet if Fianna Fail backbenchers go to Brian Lenihan to complain about the medical card issue they aren't bitching or moaning eh, yet they have the power to stop it by voting against it. But no. As for offering anything productive, the opposition parties regularly make proposals on various issues, but Fianna Fail has all the answers and rejects anything that they didn't propose themselves.

javaboy wrote: »

That's all well and good but Enda Kenny isn't cool. We can't have someone uncharismatic as Taoiseach ffs! How the hell is he supposed to run the country if he doesn't look like someone you might have a few pints with?

So Brian Cowan is charismatic ? :eek: As for Kenny not looking like someone you might have a few pints with, I thought we were looking for someone to lead the country, not choosing someone to be a drinking buddy. Give me competence over charisma anytime.

javaboy

mickos wrote: »

well they may get someone else in for party leader Kenny makes my skin crawl. Ivan yeats was a good man when he was in the party, any chance he'd ever go back to politics?

So what if Kenny makes your skin crawl? You're not marrying him ffs.

heyjude wrote: »

So Brian Cowan is charismatic ? :eek: As for Kenny not looking like someone you might have a few pints with, I thought we were looking for someone to lead the country, not choosing someone to be a drinking buddy. Give me competence over charisma anytime.

I agree completely.

IRISH RAIL

I just have to reply now my blood is boiling
first every newspaper that had a "what the budget means for you colum"
seriously look at the country "single guy on e120000 a year" married couple wit income of 100,000 get real, average industrial wage earners? you mean civil servants right?

what happened to single guy who earns 25,000 who is renting and cant afford a pint at the weekend?

what happened to married guy who earns 11 euro an hour with a recruitment agency and cant sleep at night because he could get a phone call in the morning saying he is not needed anymore?

what about the over 70s who get a pittiance for a pension then get thier medical card taken away food and gas/coal aint cheap you know and they assume they dont pay rent.

they have cut back on the amount of money they could have made by cutting back on opening hours in pubs/off licences and tried to claw it back by increasing the cost of getting a late licence but guess what you morons the pubs are closing fast so theres less money and more unemployed.

8 euro for a packet of fags!!! thats crazy wheres my friends from eastern eourope who can sell me them for e35 for 200 because thats what everyone else will do. if you want people to quit subsidise niccorette thats just as expensive without the pleasure.

rant over for now but I will leave on this note is there any orginisation setting up a mass protest against this sham government ?

rogue-entity

Just two things:
First, I wont be apologising, I had the good sence NOT to vote for that shower of bastards.

Second: FF voters have lost the right to complain about the current government, you voted for them, live with it. And anyone who complains about the hike in petrol prices... you better not have voted for the Greens.

If I spoke Swedish, I would have moved to Sweden a long time ago, they wouldnt have sat on their asses and tolerated the kind of crap that has gone on in this country over the past 10 years.

SEPT 23 1989

why dont the irish people take to the streets? if this was France or the Uk it would be a different story What is it about the irish mentality that we consistantly do sweet FA

Dinter

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

why dont the irish people take to the streets? if this was France or the Uk it would be a different story What is it about the irish mentality that we consistantly do sweet FA

Because that's what's so good about this budget. There's enough pared back that revenues will boom but not enough to drive through our laziness and apathy.

I.e. if the income levy was introduced at 5% (which when you account for health and employment levy and raised VAT it basicaly is) then there probably would be uproar. However as the more severe tax grabs are all spread out and implemented as well through shadow taxes (council tax, parking, loss of services etc) most of the electorate don't realise.

joeybloggs

I ain't apoligising for nothing.

Vote No to the Lisbon treaty people should apologise.

p.s.Sarkozy is the man.

Sean Quagmire

joeybloggs wrote: »

I ain't apoligising for nothing.

Vote No to the Lisbon treaty people should apologise.

p.s.Sarkozy is the man.

do you think if the lisbon treaty was passed, would we be in this mess?

earlyevening

Scandanavia. That old chestnut. Their banking system went tits up 10 years ago too you know. They had a property crash. They spend their days moaning about the 60% income tax that they pay for all these services. No party in Ireland at the last election was proposing to increase income tax 10% and provide state of the art hospitals at the end of every street.
Government is also about taking a long term view. Today its all about the med card, last week it was the A and E crisis, next week it'll be something else. If they reinstate the med card for wealthy oaps they'll cut something else. They can't just print out another 100 million euro (well they can but that would create other problems).

Hope you're all looking forward to the weekend and the stress of this "crisis" doesn't put you off your pint.

Edit:In fact the Swedes threw out their social democrat government a few years ago and voted in a centre right goverment. Thats how sick of it they were. The socialists had been in longer than FF here in the last few decades.

Dinter

earlyevening wrote: »

No party in Ireland at the last election was proposing to increase income tax 10% and provide state of the art hospitals at the end of every street.

And the fact that they took 1% do you think they'll manage to put one state of the art hospital for every 10 streets. Or even one for every county.

What ratio do you figure they're working to?

joeybloggs

Sean Quagmire wrote: »

do you think if the lisbon treaty was passed, would we be in this mess?

Oh god No, I was just being controversial.Hence the Sarkozy thing, he's actually a bit of a frog.

I cannot wait to see entertainment in the future you guys will provide when the recession is in full swing.Squealing like a pig.

earlyevening

As I'm sure you know, the state was 10 bn short this year and tax increases will provide 2bn of the shortfall in order to stay level. I don't think we can expect much in the next few years except to attempt to remain steady.
I wonder if we'll get still get the monorail to Ogdenville and North Haverbrook built.

Dinter

And tell me where were we in the 10 years leading up to this year?

earlyevening

Dinter wrote: »

And tell me where were we in the 10 years leading up to this year?

I don't understand. In terms of what exactly? It was take me hours to outline everything.

Silent Partner

I am sorry.

Rebeller

Silent Partner wrote: »

I am sorry.

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runswithascript

Why is this not in the politics forum?

Silent Partner

Rebeller wrote: »

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I emailed him already, thanks.