soild fuel stove advise

ttm

jack of all wrote: »

I am curious as to why polish coal burns so badly in a stove (I found the roof and bonnet of our cars were covered in flakes of soot after using it!). I burned 1 bag of this and returned trhe remaining 5 bags, never again! Never had this issue when burning coal in an open fire. Strange...

I think its down to the amount of heat that goes up the chimney with an open fire, it takes all the soot with it and dumps it over the neighbours, which might be why it shouldn't be used in the town.

demanufactured

POLISH COAL IS NOT MEANT FOR STOVES!!!!!!!!!!

You need to burn smokeless coal.

jack of all

ttm wrote: »

I think its down to the amount of heat that goes up the chimney with an open fire, it takes all the soot with it and dumps it over the neighbours, which might be why it shouldn't be used in the town.

That makes sense, cheers.

dlambirl

demanufactured wrote: »

POLISH COAL IS NOT MEANT FOR STOVES!!!!!!!!!!

You need to burn smokeless coal.

Why not??

demanufactured

Becuase polish coal burns dirty and will soot up your chimney in no time with a stove...hello mr chimney fire.

mattcullen

Hi,

I'm planning on installing a Morso Squirrell multi fuel stove. (5kw)

I cant vent from the top straight up so I will either need to use 2 45 degree bends to connect to the flexi liner above or a t section if I rear vent it.

I have read that rear venting should be a last resort. Considering that the draw on my open fire wasn't that great I want to ensure best draw I can. Would 2 45 bends be preferable do you think?

Also if i have a soot door in one of the pieces will it be easy enough to sweep?

On another note do you loose much heat if a stove is recessed into the gap where the old fireplace was?

Also Can I just plaster the wall behind or should I use a special type of slab?

Thanks in advance

ttm

mattcullen wrote: »

Also if i have a soot door in one of the pieces will it be easy enough to sweep?

Quick reply on the soot door question - maybe.

You need a good quality soot door and the only really good ones are in the cast iron flues which are really expensive as the cheap ones tend not to have a big enough entry hole and very poor screws, threads and gasket.

Just see if you can easily get a sweeps brush in the whole before you mount it, you could even test in the shop before you buy?

OR you might be able to sweep the chimney through the stove itself.

burger1979

well the stove was installed yesterday and going to fire it up tonight but looking to get some firewood. has anyone bought firewood in south dublin and if happy caould they pass on details of them? not looking for too much to start off with just a small bag. thanks.

mattcullen

I was thinking of getting an Oisin but heard it's not great for burning wood. Does anyone know about this? I was thinking of going for a Morso Squirrell but it's quite a jump in price so if anyone can recomend a good stove for burning mainly wood around 5/6 KW thatt'd be a great help. thanks

CJhaughey

You get what you pay for with the Morso Squirrel, I have one and my mum has an Oisin, No comparison between them as far as quality goes.
I got my Morso from a Cork based supplier, in Togher on special might be worth looking them up to see what price they are.
The twinwall Poujoulat flue was more than the stove!

ttm

mattcullen wrote: »

I was thinking of getting an Oisin but heard it's not great for burning wood. Does anyone know about this? I was thinking of going for a Morso Squirrell but it's quite a jump in price so if anyone can recomend a good stove for burning mainly wood around 5/6 KW thatt'd be a great help. thanks

The Oisin burns wood fine its problem is its small firebox needs short cut lenghts of timber and it doesn't hold much so needs feeding a bit more than bigger stoves but if you could get more wood in then it would be a bigger fire and more than 5/6 KW. I used one for a couple of months burning scrap building site timber and it was a great little stove, a neigbor has one and in their modern insulated 4 bed house it does most of the background heating.

Still if I could afford it I'd go for a Morso any day.

cnocbui

If you want a stove that will take longer log lengths, have a look at the Jøtul F 602.

It will take up to 400mm logs.

Having a quick look at UK outlets it appears the F602 can be had for roughly £200 less than the Morso Squirrel, with comparable quality at the very least. Jøtul stoves are made in Norway and the F602 is the best selling stove of all time, with over 1.7m having been made and it is probably the best small stove you can get.

A feature I really like about mine is it having a very wide range of heat output
(1 - 8.5kw) as there are times when you just don't want several kw.

gsxr1

mattcullen wrote: »

I was thinking of getting an Oisin but heard it's not great for burning wood. Does anyone know about this? I was thinking of going for a Morso Squirrell but it's quite a jump in price so if anyone can recomend a good stove for burning mainly wood around 5/6 KW thatt'd be a great help. thanks

i find and chop down my own timber. I cut everything the correct lengh . 8" or near.

I works great for me. Mainly wood . I nice big well seasoned bit of conifer will burn well for 30min+ in my stove and 3/4 throttle.

Dont discount the oisin for timber if you are planning to cut your own fuel.

burger1979

fired up the stove last night with kiln dried wood and everything went well. the room is turning cosy with the heat, but i was a little disappointed with the burning of the wood itself. it took a while for the wood to really burn and flames rise out of it, which in turn means that the stove takes longer to heat up. Just wondering how long does it take other peoples stoves to heat up? i know its dependent on constuction, air intakes etc. etc. but i had the primary/secondary air fully open for the whole burn last night and at the start very slow to take off. i have never burned wood before so dont know if this is normal or not. I was thinking of burning a few briquettes first then throwing some wood on the fire to keep it going, what do people think?

mattcullen

Thanks for all the tips. After much thought and research we've decided on a Morso Squirrell 1412. We're going to get 9 metres of flexi liner too. Getting that and the flue pipes for just over £1000 up north. It's way more than i though I'd spend on a stove but it should be a good job. We plan to to do it ourselves and backfill it with vermiculite insulation. There's cowls on the market that you put on the chimney pot and which hold the flexi liner in place so you don't have to take the chimney pot off and clamp everything down. Anyone got an experience of them?

sooty_soupy

I would buy a squirrel quicker than the chinese import. Scrap metal has been bought for years by the Chinese, resmelted, and then made into cheaply produced stoves, that look lovely out of a box. You get what you pay for....buy a cheap stove...don't expect much...as anyone who owns a Tiger, Mulberry, Horseflame etc....Anyone can get an account with these companies as they need to sell thousands to make it work, but the quality is often what lets them down. Some people are happy withwhat they have, but when you have as many years as I do in the field working with these things, you can separate the wheat from the chaff.

You need to ask yourself why the Jotul, Morso, Charnwood, and the Clearview stoves are more expensive. It has been muted that the log on a Stanley Oisin can burn for 30 minutes. In our showroom we have an 8 KW stove that can burn for 16.5 hours on three logs. Perhaps a cheap stove seems a good investment, but if you are going through a huge volume of fuel, then perhaps a stove that will stand the test of time for 20 + years, burning efficiently, with a crystal clear window would be a better long term investment. Check if the door catch and hinge are easy to adjust. As the rope seal become compressed on a stove, they let more air through, and unless you have an easy adjustment on teh door to allow for this compression, you will find replacing the rope seals is a pain in the neck too. We had a lady visit us from Dublin recently looking for a rope seal for her Clearview which had been in for over 15 years. We showed her how to adjust the door, and she rang a few days later without buying the rope and told us her stove was burning brilliantly again...with a 15 year old rope seal.

Hope this helps

David

mattcullen

Cheers for the advice David,

Have you any experience of using those suspending cowls I mentioned? Are they a good way to do fix the liner at the top do you think?
Also, I can't vent straight up as I need to make a bit of room at the back of the stove. If you had to choose between 2 45 degree bends (one with a soot door) or a t section at the back what do you think would be better?
Thanks for the advice

sooty_soupy

Matt, just a quick pointer for you. The liner you should use is 6" diameter and it should also be 904 grade steel if you are going to be burning coal...if it is 316 you will expect to replace it within a few years...I have been a registered chimney technician here in the North for over 20 years and have samples of burnt through flue in our showroom. I am also Chairman and instructor for the Northern Ireland Association of chimney sweeps and a technical advisor to Building control here in the North. If you need to buy liner, and all the fittings and adapters etc, and you are coming up to the North, we are based in Dundrum and have a Flue display area where we teach chimney technicians, and I can advise you on what components are to be used, and how to use them in a hands on environment.

You can also see the Clearview stoves lit here too and see why people from all over Ireland are coming to buy them.

Just a thought. By the way have a look at our website...I'm not allowed to give you the address but if you google "stoves and flues" in county down you might be lucky. ;-}

Regards

David

sooty_soupy

If you are backfilling with vermiculite, which you should be, then a suspending cowl is not necessary. A "t" section MUST be used if you are venting from the back. Our website makes for interesting reading if you have found it yet. Forget about the 2 x 45 degrees. If you are venting from the back you can use a 45 degree "t" with a 45 degree bringing you into the stove, but the "t" will allow for soot to collect below the flue outlet, ensuring you don't have a restriction in the flue. You will need to use what we call a pot hanger, which will keep the vermiculite dry. It is misleading in name as people feel it is designed to suspend the flue, but that it not it's main role.

deeno1975

Hi all, thanks for the great thread....

Just trying to get my head around what stove to buy (seems like endless possibilities and varieties )... I'm looking at a Nestor Marting S13.. just wondering if anyone out there is using one and what their opinions are????

Also wondering what ye think of spending double to get a Nestor Martin as oppose to getting a Stanley Oisin for the same KW output???

Thanks in advance...

mattcullen

Hi David,

I meant to say I was intending to use 2 X 45 degree bends (one with a soot doot at front) venting from the top. Otherwise a t-section venting from the rear.
I was thinking might be better to vent from top. What you think?

sooty_soupy

mattcullen wrote: »

Hi David,

I meant to say I was intending to use 2 X 45 degree bends (one with a soot door at front) venting from the top. Otherwise a t-section venting from the rear.
I was thinking might be better to vent from top. What you think?

The two 45 degrees from the top of the stove would be better than off the back. Just check before you buy a stove that the throat plate can be removed. If it can you will be able to sweep it through the stove so the access point on the flue is not required. I am not as familiar with the Morso stuff, but the Clearview stoves all allow for this.

Best regards

David

sooty_soupy

sooty_soupy wrote: »

The two 45 degrees from the top of the stove would be better than off the back. Just check before you buy a stove that the throat plate can be removed. If it can you will be able to sweep it through the stove so the access point on the flue is not required. I am not as familiar with the Morso stuff, but the Clearview stoves all allow for this.

Best regards

David

On another note, are you spending £1000 approx on just the flue components or is that including the stove as well. If it is just for the flue, it is too expensive, and if it is for the whole package it seems very cheap so be cautious of buying the cheap liner.

sooty_soupy

deeno1975 wrote: »

Hi all, thanks for the great thread....

Just trying to get my head around what stove to buy (seems like endless possibilities and varieties )... I'm looking at a Nestor Marting S13.. just wondering if anyone out there is using one and what their opinions are????

Also wondering what ye think of spending double to get a Nestor Martin as oppose to getting a Stanley Oisin for the same KW output???

Thanks in advance...

Deeno forget the cheap chinese imports, they are just that...CHEAP.

The Nestor Martin is a good enough stove, as is the Charnwood, Morso, Jotul and the stoves we have here called Clearview...made in Shropshire. Our showroom is worth a visit and a lot of people make the trip up to see these stoves burning to see what all the fuss is about, but to be honest, you are getting into a whole different quality of stove, but one that will comfortably give you 20 years + service rather than something made of reconstituted scrap metal from half way around the planet, that buckles and deteriorates in a handful of years needing parts all the time and chewing through fuel like there is no tomorrow.

If I can help at all let me know, but there is more to this stove lark than meets the eye...and I've been at it for 2 decades as a teacher and technical advisor.

Best regards

David

deeno1975

sooty_soupy wrote: »

Deeno forget the cheap chinese imports, they are just that...CHEAP.

The Nestor Martin is a good enough stove, as is the Charnwood, Morso, Jotul and the stoves we have here called Clearview...made in Shropshire. Our showroom is worth a visit and a lot of people make the trip up to see these stoves burning to see what all the fuss is about, but to be honest, you are getting into a whole different quality of stove, but one that will comfortably give you 20 years + service rather than something made of reconstituted scrap metal from half way around the planet, that buckles and deteriorates in a handful of years needing parts all the time and chewing through fuel like there is no tomorrow.

If I can help at all let me know, but there is more to this stove lark than meets the eye...and I've been at it for 2 decades as a teacher and technical advisor.

Best regards

David

Thanks Dave, I've following your advice throughout this thread and you make perfect sense, I'll be planning a trip North early next year... Now to go to the Credit Union...

sooty_soupy

Have you ever wondered what the production cost of a stove is, if you can buy it from a retailer at less than 800 Euro. Lets face it, to get it in the showroom or shop window, that box will probably have passed from the manufacturer to a distribution centre, which could be half way around the planet (and lets not go down the route of scrap metal going out there, to be reformed and shipped back again, and the damage to the planet this causes to get these "Carbon Neutral" stoves to you)

Once distributed, to the authorised account holder in other countries, some shirt and tie will drive around opening accounts with retailers, taking another margin. The stove will then be sold on to the high street shop, who often don't have an account with the manufacturer, but again make a margin for themselves and then low and behold you come in and pay all of these peope, and get an inexpensive, inferior stove in return.

Why not ring the manufacturer of your chosen stove and ask them who are approved technicians to sell their stoves. Here you will get ALL the advice from trained people. If the shop assistant can't answer all your questions and give you the time you deserve to make such an important decision WALK AWAY...If they can't answer your questions, it doesn't matter what deal they have on, YOU ARE GOING TO PUT THIS THING IN YOUR HOUSE AND LIGHT A FIRE IN IT. Do your homework...check up Technical Booklet L for Northern Ireland or Document J for the Republic. If you don't understand anything...ASK...If you don't feel you are getting the answers you need, or are suspicious about someone fobbing you off with crap, WALK AWAY...you will find a stove somewhere else.

It is only by the public doing this that the idiots will go out of business because they are not interested in learning the industry. Gift shops, hardware shops, building suppliers, plumbing centres are all selling the mass produced stuff, but what if you get the spotty teenager that has started work about a week ago, or the girl who has just had a row with her boyfriend and couldn't give a damn, telling you to buy the whatever you want whether it can fit in the fireplace or not, with no mention of room calculations, combustion air requirements, termination points and construction of flues, minimum clearances, hearth depths etc. Where do you stand when things go wrong?

I have been at someone's house with fire inspection officers, and insurance loss adjusters, when a chimney fires had destroyed a house. It was not nice to see the householder finding they are were covered because of an installation not meeting fire regulations. If you are doing it yourself, and relying on the here say of that kid in the shop, you can't use that in your defence. Ma Lord

Document J or Technical Booklet L....anything your not sure about ASK !!

Keep safe

mattcullen

Hi David,

It includes 316 grade Schiedel liner. I'm just gonna burn wood.

Thanks for the advice

gsxr1

mattcullen wrote: »

Hi David,

It includes 316 grade Schiedel liner. I'm just gonna burn wood.

Thanks for the advice

keep your eye out for those cheap chainsaws from lidl. (and buy the proper PPE) I have been using one for over a year now. Will pay for itself . But you must season the wood either somewhere warm and dry for 6 months or out side in a shed for a year. . It also needs spliting. Quite a project but somewhat enjoyable.

anything less than these times will dirty up your flu with tar.

There are always fallen trees around the country during the winter months. I found the old dead ones covered in Ivy dry really quick as the ivy shields out the wet weather.

sooty_soupy

Matt are you paying 1000 for the flue alone?

Also make sure you get the data plate and registration document to apply for the warranty on the flue. Also make sure you buy a nose cone for the flue if you are installing it yourself, as I find that MI flues or Schiedle stuff tended to concertina when trying to put a length down the chimney, which was a problem when you come to bends in the flue. All the registered technicians in the NIACS use Fireflexmaster from Docherty Chimney Group products, as it is more robust and easier to install. To the public, the 316 is £38 per m, and the adapter is £21, and pot hanger at £45. The 904 stuff is guaranteed for 20 years and is £63 per metre.

Hope this helps

gsxr1

I would just like to add.

the gun type plates that come with the oisin. When installed. there is not as much heat output.

I have mine back in tonight after a year of them fallen flat on there side.

they are supposed to protect the baffle. (i dont know what the baffle is).

they makes the flame go straight up and out the vent.

Without the plates. the flame goes up and around the sides. Heating the whole stove.