Motorway redesignation Phase #2 released

Typewriter

Zoney wrote: »

Here is a map I did up including these reclassifications (incl. the delayed N9 one). It includes motorways under construction or due to start - but not the planned ones (e.g. M17) because quite frankly even if some of those happen eventually, I don't think they'll be built that soon.



Note: I'm not sure whether some of the N10 might be placed under motorway restrictions - due to it connecting straight onto the M9 (possibly with a trumpet interchange?). Also I have not included the existing N10 - it is possible the eastern part of Kilkenny Ring Road and southern section of N10 would remain primary route - as the latter will also connect to the M9.

I edited your map to make my own 'wishful thinking' Motorway map of Ireland.

See If all you road buffs can work out what I've done.

Stark

What's M34 about and why isn't there a motorway from Donegal town to Mary's house?

invincibleirish

I believe the M34 is the 'proposed' Cork NRR & upgraded SRR combined?

Wishful thinking indeed unfortunately.

BluntGuy

Nice map.

And although I know it's just your wishful thinking, but let's just see what COULD be a reality...

M34 - no... Although the SRR could be upgraded to motorway status once the Sarsfield and Bandon Road roundabouts are sorted out.

M25 - yes... I think that is the NRA's ultimate plan. The Wateford City bypass is already part of that, and I am sure that the New Ross bypass (and the scheme in planning to link them) will all be motorway grade as well. The existing dual-carriageway near Midleton is going to (eventually, according to NRA's website), have all its private accesses removed by means of a parallel road, making it suitable for upgrade to M-way.

M24 - no... I think a 2+2 upgrade in the medium-term is the planned solution. If it did somehow magically happen, I dread to think of poor little Cahir having a massive (and most likely badly-designed) M24/M8 junction nearby.

M9 parallel to M7 - interesting, but doubtful - I don't think the NRA wants to shove yet another junction onto the M50.

M17 - as part of the Atlantic Corridor. Maybe. But the most northerly section, I think, is planned as 2+2 road.

M20 - yep.

M11 - yep.

M3 extension - certainally a possibility.

M6 to Galway - yep. I can see that happening.

I we had infinite sums of money, I'd love to have the M4 as far as the N5/N4 split and then upgrade both to 2+2 from that point on. Sadly though, there are far more important projects (both road and public transport) for our money to spent on.

Anyway...

Back to reality, here is a list of road schemes UNDER CONSTRUCTION, and when they are due to be finished:

ROAD SCHEME SCHEDULE (Total: 405 km of motorway/HQDC)

M8 - Cullahill-Cashel - 40 km - Q2 2009
M7 - Nenagh-Limerick - 28 km - Q2 2009
M9 - Carlow-Knocktopher - 24 km - Q3 2009
M6 - Ballinasloe-Athone - 20km - Q4 2009
M8 - Mitchelstown-Fermoy - 16km - Q1 2010
M6 - Galway-Ballinasloe - 56 km - Q2 2010
M7 - Nenagh-Castletown - 34km - Q3 2010
M3 - Clonee - Kells - 47 km - Q3 2010
N7 - Limerick Tunnel - 10km - Q4 2010
M8/M7 - Portlaoise-Cullahill/Castletown - 40 km - Q4 2010
M9 - Kilcullen-Carlow - 27 km - Q4 2010
M9/N10 - Carlow-Knocktopher - 40 km - Q4 2010
M25 - Waterford City Bypass - 23 km - Q4 2010

Here is when I predict various schemes may be opening:
M8 - Cullahill - Cashel - 40 km - Q4 2008
M8 - Fermoy - Mitchelstown - 16 km - Q2 2009
M7 - Nenagh - Limerick - 38 km - Q2 2009
M9 - Waterford - Knocktopher - 24 km - Q3 2009
M6 - Athlone - Ballinasloe - 20 km Q4 2009
M3 - Clonee - Kells - 47 km - Q4 2009
M25 - Waterford City Bypass - 23 km - Q4 2009
M8/M7 - Portlaoise-Cullahill/Castletown - 40km - Q1 2010
M9 - Kilcullen - Carlow - 27 km - Q1 2010
N7 - Limerick Tunnel - 10km - Q2 2010
M7 - Nenagh - Castletown - 34 km - Q3 2010
M9/N10 - Carlow-Knocktopher - 40 km - Q4 2010

Some may even open earliar, but I would be very doubtful of it.

Typewriter

invincibleirish wrote: »

I believe the M34 is the 'proposed' Cork NRR & upgraded SRR combined?

Wishful thinking indeed unfortunately.

Correct, 34 is the next unused route number. It would be easier to rename the whole completed ring road as one route than to refer to it as a combination of a few.

And did you see the M9 extension to the M50? It would bypass that horrible N7 Nass DC.

All very much a pipe dream i know.

Chris_533976

Clever bugger changed the M17 to make more sense

BluntGuy

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Clever bugger changed the M17 to make more sense

Makes more sense, but never gonna happen...

The NRA are INTENT on building that service station on the M6/M18/M17 junction.

Amtmann

BluntGuy wrote: »

M34 - no... Although the SRR could be upgraded to motorway status once the Sarsfield and Bandon Road roundabouts are sorted out.

I doubt very much that the SRR will be upgraded. A good deal of it has no hard shoulder whatsoever (the Douglas flyover), and no wriggle room for an M50 type retrofit, either.

Just a question on your Q1 2010 estimation for the final piece of the M8 Bluntguy: have you heard any updates on how work is progressing?

BluntGuy

I haven't heard many updates.

Apparently, the boundry fencing has been erected and there's a lot of earthworks going on.

The reason you can't see any noticeable progress is because the majority of the work is taking place at the M7/M8 junction (which can't really be seen very easily).

My estimation is based on the progress of recent projects.

Personally, I think that there will be a partial opening of the scheme (M8 - 13 km) before it all opens.

Amtmann

BluntGuy wrote: »

I haven't heard many updates.

Apparently, the boundry fencing has been erected and there's a lot of earthworks going on.

The reason you can't see any noticeable progress is because the majority of the work is taking place at the M7/M8 junction (which can't really be seen very easily).

My estimation is based on the progress of recent projects.

Personally, I think that there will be a partial opening of the scheme (M8 - 13 km) before it all opens.

I actually made a trip up there last August just so I could see the progress that's been made. I drove to where the interchange should be, and I found what I can only describe as a giant crater. Unfortunately I couldn't even get a glimpse in at it. And as for photos, there wouldn't have been any point in taking some, because there wasn't anything to see. I mean they've been at this well over a year now. Celtic Roadgroup is the contractor, I believe? Very poor form for a PPP as far as I can see, even from a purely public relations point of view. All the other PPP schemes have decent websites at least.

BluntGuy

Their website is terrible...

The M7/M8 junction, or 'crater' as you describe it, is the only real progress I've seen. I'm unsure about the rest of the route...

AugustusMaximus

Q. Can a tunnel be classified as Motorway considering it doesn't have a hard shoulder. the Shannon tunnel for instance ?

Furet, I'm still mytified why Culahill to Portlaoise was the last project to be started on the M8 considering its the scheme which will bypass Abbeyleix and Durrow. Prob the last two towns of any real size to bypass on the entire M8.

mysterious

BluntGuy wrote: »

Personally, I think that there will be a partial opening of the scheme (M8 - 13 km) before it all opens.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Sometimes i just shake my head, over, over and over.


Can someone tell me that something is really stooooooooooooooopid in his post. Go look at the map and come back to me PUH LEASE.

I just cannot answer this dumb response.


I look forward to it

I'll give you a clue, if they open the M8 leg, where will the traffic go? Now before you answer think about it. Good jesus yet again, I see this nonsense.

cherrypicker555

spacetweek wrote: »

Been thinking about the N3 redesignation as far as Clonee turnoff. I think on mature reflection this is probably better. It means that we could dedicate the rest of the road as far as the M50 to bus, etc. We should do an N4/N7 job on it and widen this Clonee-M50 part to 6 lanes with proper bus lanes (not the current crap) and cycle/walking paths. Stop getting buses to drop people off at the door to Blanch Centre, taking hours to get there, and use the N3 as the primary route. With the bus stops here on widened offramps, it would only be 200m to the entrance. Build a pedestrian bridge to allow access to the bus stop on the other side of the N3.


Had always assumed that, but we'll have to see what Coweye comes up with in his budget, which is gonna be a tough one. To be honest, I'd always thought the Atlantic corridor would be finished after 2015, but it's a certainty now. I'm more worried about them slowing down the public transport bits , though.


Nice map, but you included a lot of non-motorway low standard bits, like N18 at Limerick, N11 south of Bray, etc.


I know! The lack of motorway north of the midlands jumps right off the screen.

Agreed with the N3 routing, but they've already decided to use the N2. And NI has messed it up by planning their section as dual, not motorway.

There is v little difference between the republics 4 lane motorways and UK/NI dual carriageways with a 70mph limit in terms of journey time.

The Republics motorways are effectively 70 mph dual carriageways.


Uk standard motorways with service stations, colour coded cats eyes, electronic signage, 6 lanes, crash deflectors (not cable), extensive lighting,sometimes under road heating, etc are much more expensive to build.




http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/networkmap.html

mackerski

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Q. Can a tunnel be classified as Motorway considering it doesn't have a hard shoulder. the Shannon tunnel for instance ?

Yes. This happens routinely in many countries, including in our own Dublin Port Tunnel.

L1011

green_jesus wrote: »

I edited your map to make my own 'wishful thinking' Motorway map of Ireland.

See If all you road buffs can work out what I've done.

You're missing existing (Dromod/Roosky) and firm planned (Longford Bypass II, Longford->Carrick) duallers along the N4

BluntGuy

mysterious wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Sometimes i just shake my head, over, over and over.


Can someone tell me that something is really stooooooooooooooopid in his post. Go look at the map and come back to me PUH LEASE.

I just cannot answer this dumb response.


I look forward to it

I'll give you a clue, if they open the M8 leg, where will the traffic go? Now before you answer think about it. Good jesus yet again, I see this nonsense.

I'm so sorry mysterious, maybe I should've been clearer. I should have said 13km of the M8 and the section from the M8/M7 interchange to portlaoise. Although maybe that would be an awquard set-up.

Of course, what I actually meant would've been clear to anybody with even a modicum of intelligence.

Maybe it's you who should think twice before you post such an embarassing response. You could've just told me nice 'n' easy, but you had to add in the over-the-top nonsensical sarcasm in the hope that somebody would find it funny.

Hint: Nobody did.

Skyhater

MYOB wrote: »

Originally Posted by green_jesus View Post
I edited your map to make my own 'wishful thinking' Motorway map of Ireland.

See If all you road buffs can work out what I've done.

You're missing existing (Dromod/Roosky) and firm planned (Longford Bypass II, Longford->Carrick) duallers along the N4

You also missed a DC link to the Derry/Donegal. As i said, my preference would be M1>N33>N2>A5.
Although i'd LOVE a dedicated M2 all the way from Dublin to Border (Monaghan/Tyrone), as a Taxpayer I think it would be a waste of money for M1, M2, and M3 to run moreorless parallel for most of the route.

spacetweek

cherrypicker555 wrote: »

The Republics motorways are effectively 70 mph dual carriageways.

Troll!!

Since people are submitting maps, here's my one. Blue = M, Red = HQDC, Dark Green = 2+2. Light Green = SC.

Few notes: N52 and N80 are built as DCs so we have regional links. N53 is extended all the way from Castleblayney to Castlerea on the N60 so there's a road running along the border. N21 and N22 are DC all the way to Tralee. N5 and N26 are DC west of N17. I haven't updated the map to reflect the new redesignations (N6, etc.) as they haven't been signed off yet.

L1011

cherrypicker555 wrote: »

There is v little difference between the republics 4 lane motorways and UK/NI dual carriageways with a 70mph limit in terms of journey time.

The Republics motorways are effectively 70 mph dual carriageways.


Uk standard motorways with service stations, colour coded cats eyes, electronic signage, 6 lanes, crash deflectors (not cable), extensive lighting,sometimes under road heating, etc are much more expensive to build.




http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/networkmap.html

The UKs motorways also have massive frequent lane closures, crumbling surfaces, sections with NO cats eyes, worn markings... today I passed a left in / left out junction (banned on motorways in Ireland) on the M6. Their system is not one to use as a good example.

AugustusMaximus

spacetweek wrote: »

Troll!!

Since people are submitting maps, here's my one. Blue = M, Red = HQDC, Dark Green = 2+2. Light Green = SC.

Few notes: N52 and N80 are built as DCs so we have regional links. N53 is extended all the way from Castleblayney to Castlerea on the N60 so there's a road running along the border. N21 and N22 are DC all the way to Tralee. N5 and N26 are DC west of N17. I haven't updated the map to reflect the new redesignations (N6, etc.) as they haven't been signed off yet.

How come you have dualled most of Cork to Killarney except for the bit around Ballyvourney ? This section is prob going to be be built 2+2

MYOB

MYOB wrote: »

The UKs motorways also have massive frequent lane closures, crumbling surfaces, sections with NO cats eyes, worn markings... today I passed a left in / left out junction (banned on motorways in Ireland) on the M6. Their system is not one to use as a good example.

Don't forget thet the first sections of the M6 are 50 years old (Preston bypass) and many of the others were built in the 70's, standards have improved since then. Some sections of early motorway have been downgraded to A road or rebuilt to newer standards.

LILO's will be permitted if the Athlone bypass is upgraded to motorway as scheduled.

Edit: another thing, just wait untill all these new motorways are up for renewal!!!!! (all at the same time)

BluntGuy

cherrypicker555 wrote: »

There is v little difference between the republics 4 lane motorways and UK/NI dual carriageways with a 70mph limit in terms of journey time.

The Republics motorways are effectively 70 mph dual carriageways.


Uk standard motorways with service stations, colour coded cats eyes, electronic signage, 6 lanes, crash deflectors (not cable), extensive lighting,sometimes under road heating, etc are much more expensive to build.

http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/networkmap.html

That's correct. The Republic's motorways ARE 75 mph dual carriageways just as England/NI's motorways ARE 70 mph dual carriageways.

We could use more service stations and better lighting in places, but after that our motorways are more-or-less identical to those in the UK.

AugustusMaximus

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't forget thet the first sections of the M6 are 50 years old (Preston bypass) and many of the others were built in the 70's, standards have improved since then. Some sections of early motorway have been downgraded to A road or rebuilt to newer standards.

LILO's will be permitted if the Athlone bypass is upgraded to motorway as scheduled.

Can't see the problem with LILO's myself. If they aren't abrupt and enough space is given to let the driver slow down/speed up then I can't see why they shouldn't be allow for motorway standards.

BluntGuy

I don't really like LILOs but I don't think they should prohibit a road from being made motorway when the rest of the route is up to spec.

Anyway, there's no need to worry. All of our new motorway schemes are being built with the 'proper' junctions. LILOs will be (as they should), the exception to the rule.

I'm glad the NRA has realised that.

L1011

My point was that anyone who thinks the UK's motorway (or indeed general road) network is of a overall better standard has clearly never driven in the UK!

I'm 1000km in to a >2000km run this weekend now; which has included using the absolutely wonderful (:rolleyes:) road that forms a crucial part of the link between two of the UK's capital cities - the twisty, single carriageway A702.

The only place the UK is better than us now is when it comes to backroads - they're usually two lanes, marked, kerbed, signed compared to the cart tracks we can have. Their trunk network is no better.

Stark

Did a bit of driving in the north of Scotland last year and their A roads are atrocious alright. Northern Ireland's roads are fairly dodgy as well.

cherrypicker555

Stark wrote: »

Did a bit of driving in the north of Scotland last year and their A roads are atrocious alright. Northern Ireland's roads are fairly dodgy as well.

Yer NIs roads are shocking compared to the republics, :rolleyes:

BluntGuy

Hey, just a comment in regards to the timescale of this redesignation.

The NRA made applications for the first tranche of redesignations in October 2007. These were released for public consultation in January 2008. The consultation ended (I think) in March, and the statutory instrunment was passed on July 17th. It came into effect on September 24th.

Now...

The NRA made applications for the second tranche of redesignations in April 2008. These were released for public consultation on September 30th this year. The consultation is due to end on November 14th.

Therefore, I think it would be reasonable to expect the instrunment to be passed in January or February, coming into effect in April or May possibly.

However I wouldn't be surprised if it was September 24th next year by the time the changes come into effect as there is likely to be more objection to this round of redesignations than the last (as most of the roads already exist and are probably used regularly by traffic that wouldn't be permitted on a motorway).

cherrypicker555

MYOB wrote: »

My point was that anyone who thinks the UK's motorway (or indeed general road) network is of a overall better standard has clearly never driven in the UK!

I'm 1000km in to a >2000km run this weekend now; which has included using the absolutely wonderful (:rolleyes:) road that forms a crucial part of the link between two of the UK's capital cities - the twisty, single carriageway A702.

The only place the UK is better than us now is when it comes to backroads - they're usually two lanes, marked, kerbed, signed compared to the cart tracks we can have. Their trunk network is no better.

The A 702 is a road which goes across remote parts of Scotland in parts, which you refer to, its like comparing a road across Kerry with the M1.

The reality is UK motorways are the busiest and safest in Europe as are UK dual carriageways.

Even the older sections have a better safety record then the republics new "motorways". Also better lighting,electronic signage, defelctors,service stations, 6 lanes mostly, colour coded cats eyes which are not used in the rep.


http://www.abd.org.uk/safest_roads.htm


A roads are the UKs trunk roads, often dual carriageways, these have become motorways in the rep, are you seriously claiming the republics twisty single lane N roads are better ?