Waterford University discussion

Harry Palmr

Malcolm Byrne I think it was on wlr and Matt Shanahan too, just caught the end of it.

Teebor15

It's a very valid point, why are we settling for a TU?

We always aspired to full University status to be on par with the other regions. But after years of false promises and stagnation we realised we just don't have the political power to attain it. So we jumped at the chance of becoming technology university because it was all we could get.

But then the powers that be decided we should be merged with Carlow because they wanted something too, which is their right. But still all that was on offer was a technology university.

If this forced marriage as to go ahead then why are we settling for just TU status. Now we are not just a little 4 seater with no one at the cabinet table. We are now an 14 seater or better still a 20 something seater since Simon Harris has lobbed in his own country of Wiclow and Kildare into the Sounth East. Plus we have at least 2 full Ministers at the top table in Harris and Donnelly.

Surely with all this political might the time has come to shout stop at the this bull**** name change over the door, and demand a full university of (Carlow and Waterford combined) with all the status, prestige and funding that the other universities enjoy!

BBM77

914 wrote: »

Kilkenny Councillor asking why not full University, good to see

https://waterford-news.ie/2021/03/08/why-not-a-full-university-asks-kilkenny-councillor/

Why not a full university? Christ they are unbelievable!

Maybe these Wexford and Kilkenny politicians might finally be starting to see that the most viable and sensible option is just to upgrade WIT to full university status. I can live in hope can’t I.

invara

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Malcolm Byrne I think it was on wlr and Matt Shanahan too, just caught the end of it.

Very interesting interview for all the TU watchers out there... on the player now from the start of the show, just after 10am.

It speaks for itself. The TU might be very bad news for Waterford- there is no clarity on funding or the HQ coming; given the recent political past (hospital and ETB...), and Government is going to blame people asking for such clarification if the TU goes off the rails.

imacman

invara wrote: »

Very interesting interview for all the TU watchers out there... on the player now from the start of the show, just after 10am.

It speaks for itself. The TU might be very bad news for Waterford- there is no clarity on funding or the HQ coming; given the recent political past (hospital and ETB...), and Government is going to blame people asking for such clarification if the TU goes off the rails.

I thought TU situation was bad and then I had a socially distanced chat with a friend I hadn't seen in ages at the weekend. He is a manager of a dept in WIT for the last 20 years and has been involved extensively in the TU working groups. He said the Carlow staff he works with are great and work well together the Carlow upper management are a real issue.
He feels they have had a plan going back to 2015 to come in hard and dominate and also take advantage of a number of weak characters on the WIT executive to push the Carlow agenda on every decision.

WIT has been a large flat model organization for years where management in an area is trusted to make decisions and manage their own staff. Carlow is the opposite with micromanagement from the top and every decision has to be signed off by the top brass . That's the model the TU working groups are following and he thinks that's how the TU will end up been organised with central control of every aspect of the organisation as that's what Carlow wants.

So he is a manager in quite a technical area and he has 30 years experience working in industry and in WIT. He makes his own purchasing decisions , runs his own budgets and manages a large number of staff. Now he has his Itcarlow Group lead questioning his knowledge even though he have no idea what he is talking about as they an a jumped up academic who has never worked in the real world. But in the ITcarlow structure that person has the final say .
He says there is massive disillusionment amongst the management group and he says they are beginning to think if you are WIT manager thats good at your job Carlow see you as a threat and actively try to sideline you . It sounds terrible and he is thinking of moving on if things continue the way they are going . I found the whole conversation so depressing , we are not only losing the Waterford name with the TU but it looks like we are going to lose the heart and soul of WIT as well

914

imacman wrote: »

I thought TU situation was bad and then I had a socially distanced chat with a friend I hadn't seen in ages at the weekend. He is a manager of a dept in WIT for the last 20 years and has been involved extensively in the TU working groups. He said the Carlow staff he works with are great and work well together the Carlow upper management are a real issue.
He feels they have had a plan going back to 2015 to come in hard and dominate and also take advantage of a number of weak characters on the WIT executive to push the Carlow agenda on every decision.

WIT has been a large flat model organization for years where management in an area is trusted to make decisions and manage their own staff. Carlow is the opposite with micromanagement from the top and every decision has to be signed off by the top brass . That's the model the TU working groups are following and he thinks that's how the TU will end up been organised with central control of every aspect of the organisation as that's what Carlow wants.

So he is a manager in quite a technical area and he has 30 years experience working in industry and in WIT. He makes his own purchasing decisions , runs his own budgets and manages a large number of staff. Now he has his Itcarlow Group lead questioning his knowledge even though he have no idea what he is talking about as they an a jumped academic who has never worked in the real world. But in the ITcarlow structure that person has the final say .
He says there is massive disillusionment amongst the management group and he says they are beginning to think if you are WIT manager thats good at your job Carlow see you as a threat and actively try to sideline you . It sounds terrible and he is thinking of moving on if things continue the way they are going . I found the whole conversation so depressing , we are not only losing the Waterford name with the TU but it looks like we are going to lose the heart and soul of WIT as well

Staff have the chance to end this by voting against it at the next vote. Unfortunately the last vote was 90 something percent in favour

imacman

914 wrote: »

Staff have the chance to end this by voting against it at the next vote. Unfortunately the last vote was 90 something percent in favour

I cant see that making any difference , MTU was pushed through without union agreement

914

imacman wrote: »

I cant see that making any difference , MTU was pushed through without union agreement

Aye but if WIT staff do not agree I would like to think that would result in WIT pulling the plug.

Although I don't see it happening, can fully see the TU coming into place and in a few years time we'll have politician's complaining about the lack of investment and how the SE is experience and brain drain like we have heard for the past 50 years.

Malcolm Byrnes interview gave me 0%, it's a real case of we need WIT of play ball or we in Wexford will suffer

Jamie2k9

Its a shame Matt Shanahan didn't take the firm decision to call for rejection of TUSE without clarification.

Malcolm Byrnes interview was just scaremongering, look Waterford will not be a university in 2022 if this is rejected because of Matt. FF or FG will have to find a "new game" in town because they need seats in Waterford if they want to move away from a 3 way party dysfunctional Goverment if it lasts to 2025.

Bards wrote: »

SF is backing the wrong horse here... We need an alternative option... In my opinion this option should be a full University for Waterford and upgrade Carlow to TU... The other 4 cities have both a full University and a TU so it's not like we are looking for more than the other 4

Its hard to trust Cullinane's commitment. Says the right things but only after pushed. Unless Mary Loo is raising issues at leader questions SF's commitment isn't worth anything.


Nothing will change if this is rejected in terms of WITs current status.

invara

Damian Tiernan reporting on twitter that Malcolm Byrne has announced €150m capital investment across SE, with a significant campus in Wexford.

Muttley79

https://beat102103.com/news/significant-wexford-campus-for-south-east-tech-university/
A campus for every town in the south east. University in waterford diluted down to cabbage water.

Harry Palmr

Pathetic 150m is about one third of what's needed for what's been announced.

Christy Browne

Being led down the garden path yet again. Trying to strong arm us now with talk of ‘no Plan B’, imaginary funding and Waterford not being a ‘university’ city if it’s rejected.

Just like Tralee, Athlone, Letterkenny, Castlebar, Sligo, Wexford, Kilkenny and Carlow will be ‘university towns’ when their applications go through? Gimme a break. That’s the company they’re putting Waterford in. Not with Galway, Limerick, Cork or Dublin, get down there with the rest of em and fight for the scraps like a good lamb.

Malcolm Byrne on WLR then trying to pin all the uproar on Matt Shanahan, as if he’s the only one that can smell the stink of bullsh*t from a mile away. Hope we tell them to stuff their half measure university, but I fear it’s too late now. People won’t realise what’s happened until they start taking faculties out of WIT and divvying them up across the SE.

If Cullinane had a backbone he’d be getting Mary Lou to come out and state the case for an independent University of Waterford. Representatives too docile again. Party over county again.

invara

So the projects I think we know about:

WIT PPP Engineering Building ~€50m 12k Sqm should be signed in Q1 2020 (so 20 days there, along with the 2nd Cath lab tender)
Carlow PPP Health Science Building ~€25m 6k Sqm (in the same bundle as WIT building, so should be signed in 20 days)
Carlow (currently out to tender) Corporate Support Services Building ~€20 5k Sqm (working of the same ratio of price to Sqm as the PPPs)
Wexford campus €10 buy, €10m build (very much a rumour here)

Approx €30m with no visibility, could that be the Crystal site budget?

914

invara wrote: »

So the projects I think we know about:

WIT PPP Engineering Building ~€50m 12k Sqm should be signed in Q1 2020 (so 20 days there, along with the 2nd Cath lab tender)
Carlow PPP Health Science Building ~€25m 6k Sqm (in the same bundle as WIT building, so should be signed in 20 days)
Carlow (currently out to tender) Corporate Support Services Building ~€20 5k Sqm (working of the same ratio of price to Sqm as the PPPs)
Wexford campus €10 buy, €10m build (very much a rumour here)

Approx €30m with no visibility, could that be the Crystal site budget?

Basically projects planned since 09 such as WITS engineering will be hailed as great success and investment in the new TU!

No plan B? Put the €150 million into and get it to University level, simply really

Harry Palmr

The Glass site is 36 acres at 30m would be overpriced but Frisby is in a strong position, unless it's CPU'd.

imacman

914 wrote: »

Basically projects planned since 09 such as WITS engineering will be hailed as great success and investment in the new TU!

No plan B? Put the €150 million into and get it to University level, simply really

Classic government tactic, announce existing developments as new investments. I remember someone saying here before that the Engineering building in WIT has been announced as a new development 4 times since 2011. 10 years later it still hasn't gone to tender and it wont be finished till god knows when.

Jamie2k9

imacman wrote: »

Classic government tactic, announce existing developments as new investments. I remember someone saying here before that the Engineering building in WIT has been announced as a new development 4 times since 2011. 10 years later it still hasn't gone to tender and it wont be finished till god knows when.

The sudden announcement makes you wonder are the Government getting a little concerned Aprils application is not a certainty.

Surly M Byrne would have referenced this announcement yesterday during the interview.

914

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The sudden announcement makes you wonder are the Government getting a little concerned Aprils application is not a certainty.

Surly M Byrne would have referenced this announcement yesterday during the interview.

He announced today that the application is expected on 28th April

Jamie2k9

914 wrote: »

He announced today that the application is expected on 28th April

Like the funding the date is old news.

914

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Like the funding the date is old news.

He also stated "there is no plan B if this is rejected" obviously looking to put the ****s up people, perhaps he has some fear of the application not being made.

"If rejected" is that a shot fired to WIT and IT Carlow staff as the only way it can be rejected is by either institute pulling the plug and listening to both president's that sounds fairly unlikely.

For anyone not on twitter

Technological University of the South East 📚

Southeast @OireachtasNews met @SimonHarrisTD & Chairs and Presidents of @waterfordit and @itcarlow . Positive meeting

#TUSE Application lodges 28th April

Plans for #Wexford campus and bigger footprint for the #Waterford campus
1/2

Plan is new university will come into being on 1st January, 2022

About €150m in new capital investment is already committed to the university across the region. More will be sought and @SimonHarrisTD positive.

There is no ‘Plan B’ if this is rejected
2/2

SeanieW1977

€150m split 3 ways; €50m per "site" - you wouldnt build a decent sized school for it.

Waterford will get proportionally less then any other "stakeholder" in the process 8,000 odd FT strudents vs 5,000 in Carlow, making wexford the biggest winners here.

Along with the above, "re gifting" the schools of engineering and business to WIT as new investment when in actual fact govt have been holding it back for over a decade.

This fella must be clairvoyant - he has nailed this from the get go https://finneganwaterford.wordpress.com/blog-2/

This TUSE changes nothing, the stakeholders in this are selling out Waterford - from the politicians (bar shanahan), the FUSE - another failed quango full of same old tired faces right up to the chamber of commerce. TUSE cant go ahead with out WIT - we hold the aces here and are trying to be strong armed into a bad deal - let the unions and college vote against this now and then lets see the colour of the govts money. God knows there will be huge support locally - if you know anyone in WIT get them to vote against this siht show.

The whole thing makes me laugh, when we talk about Waterford we MUST talk about the South East and think regionally when it comes to WIT everyone wants a piece of the pie, that is neatly carved up and served by our own people and sold to us as progress.

However when it comes to Waterford issues like 24/7 and the border expansion Waterford is only thinking of itself and can get no support from around the region.

How any uneducated imbecile can think that making every town in Ireland a University town is a positive thing is beyond me - Thurles, Clonmel, Wexford Carlow, Letterkenny, Sligo, Mountbellow, Letterfrack, Athlone & now Waterford will join this illustrious list of University Towns for 2021.

Special thanks to John Cummins and FG for making this happen - I hope people remember it when it comes to election time.

imacman

Simon Harris on Southeast radio again this morning going on about the Wexford campus ,thats the third time in a last month and he still wont come on WLR.

Harry Palmr

The man is a coward

azimuth17

SeanieW1977 wrote: »

€150m split 3 ways; €50m per "site" - you wouldnt build a decent sized school for it.

Waterford will get proportionally less then any other "stakeholder" in the process 8,000 odd FT strudents vs 5,000 in Carlow, making wexford the biggest winners here.

Along with the above, "re gifting" the schools of engineering and business to WIT as new investment when in actual fact govt have been holding it back for over a decade.

This fella must be clairvoyant - he has nailed this from the get go https://finneganwaterford.wordpress.com/blog-2/

This TUSE changes nothing, the stakeholders in this are selling out Waterford - from the politicians (bar shanahan), the FUSE - another failed quango full of same old tired faces right up to the chamber of commerce. TUSE cant go ahead with out WIT - we hold the aces here and are trying to be strong armed into a bad deal - let the unions and college vote against this now and then lets see the colour of the govts money. God knows there will be huge support locally - if you know anyone in WIT get them to vote against this siht show.

The whole thing makes me laugh, when we talk about Waterford we MUST talk about the South East and think regionally when it comes to WIT everyone wants a piece of the pie, that is neatly carved up and served by our own people and sold to us as progress.

However when it comes to Waterford issues like 24/7 and the border expansion Waterford is only thinking of itself and can get no support from around the region.

How any uneducated imbecile can think that making every town in Ireland a University town is a positive thing is beyond me - Thurles, Clonmel, Wexford Carlow, Letterkenny, Sligo, Mountbellow, Letterfrack, Athlone & now Waterford will join this illustrious list of University Towns for 2021.

Special thanks to John Cummins and FG for making this happen - I hope people remember it when it comes to election time.

Everything you say is true, but that wont stop the system from driving over us. We do not have the political muscle or regional support to move the needle on this, hence David Cullinane is on the same side as the government. He reckons he will win even if the government does us over," it's their fault" and if its a success," I was for it." Maybe its just a realisation that we have to take what's going and try to make the best of it? We have tried everything else, bar open revolution. When crumbs are on offer, take the crumbs?

The speech by Cullinane and reply by Simon Harris in Dail yesterday are instructive. https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2021-03-10/15/

914

Brendan howlin on SE radio yesterday from 21.30 minutes, only about 2 minutes or so, the university must be a multi campus!

Edit forgot to add the link

https://www.southeastradio.ie/on-demand/

BBM77

914 wrote: »

Brendan howlin on SE radio yesterday from 21.30 minutes, only about 2 minutes or so, the university must be a multi campus!

Edit forgot to add the link

https://www.southeastradio.ie/on-demand/

It is actually just pathetic from these Kilkenny and Wexford politicians. Why did they not campaign for an IT or university for themselves since the 1930’s? No when they saw WIT was on the verge of becoming a university they blocked it and said nothing is going to happen unless the gain is put in their little towns. I hope the staff in WIT will have the good sense to vote against this TUSE crap.

914

BBM77 wrote: »

It is actually just pathetic from these Kilkenny and Wexford politicians. Why did they not campaign for an IT or university for themselves since the 1930’s?

Simple, there was nothing in it for them locally. Now they will have a substantial campus in Wexford, expansion in Carlow and who knows what for Kilkenny.

They did not have the intelligence to see the benefits to the region if a Uni was in Waterford.

The ultimate parish pump politics that we are often accused of, but now we must play ball for "Regional balance"

azimuth17

BBM77 wrote: »

It is actually just pathetic from these Kilkenny and Wexford politicians. Why did they not campaign for an IT or university for themselves since the 1930’s? No when they saw WIT was on the verge of becoming a university they blocked it and said nothing is going to happen unless the gain is put in their little towns. I hope the staff in WIT will have the good sense to vote against this TUSE crap.

Right in one! If the WIT staff accept this they must be cracked.

Harry Palmr

Led by donkeys. I've not heard a peep from Willie Donnelly.