Waterford University discussion

7upfree

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

So in other words you ignore the bleedin' obvious because it doesn't suit you. The fact is Donegal's problems have never been attributed to university provision. Its problem is the border and its the natural hinterland of Derry City. There is no good reason to locate anything of any significance in Donegal. It has no strategic advantage at all from a commercial viewpoint. Likewise Ed Walsh. You don't like what he says so "He has lost credibility" He has more credibility than you are ever likely to have and the credentials to back it up!

So your not going to drop names? I suspect you would if you had them. Therefore its not worth the paper its printed on. Its more of the "I know a guy" nonsense. Again its strange the FT and IDA don't know these guys. The fact is that successive governments have now made moves to deliver a University to Waterford in some shape. This is driven by the political push from Waterford on this issue. This government is weak and only getting weaker. They might not deliver on it. But it indicates that it can happen

Well said Fuzzy. The rubbish spouted by bitter people towards Waterford city and a University upgrade truly defies belief.

fiachr_a

CatFromHue wrote: »

Getting in is one thing, passing the exams another.

Getting a job in Waterford with a university degree is even tougher.

shruikan2553

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

I never said it was good enough.

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Magee Campus and Coleraine are also closer that Cork is to Waterford that is before you even mention Leterkenny and Sligo IT.

Then why mention them? Distance from other universities is a piss poor excuse for another one. Nobody needs to be within an hour of one. LYIT and Sligo have as much claim to university status going by the distance argument.

O Riain

People need to change the terminology they are using in this whole discussion.

Half the country, politicians included, think that Waterford is not worth a slap. I think at this stage it is obvious we are not significant enough to gain a University "for Waterford" despite WITs high standard and all the reports saying that it is capable and would benefit the region.

That's why we need to emphasize that this is a Unversity not just for Waterford but for the entire Region. Waterford borders Kilkenny, Tipperary and Wexford with large population centres all in close proximity. People that are trying to get support for this should be goin up to Carrick, Kilmac, Mullinavat, New Ross, Kilkenny and gaining support for a University that they could commute to each day. Our politicians should be speaking to politicians from these areas and getting work done in regards to this. If we could get politicians from South Tipp, South Kilkenny and South Wexford on board with this then we will have half the battle won.

Obviously that is easier said then done cause I'm sure Kilkenny, Clonmel and New Ross have aspirations of their own University and would hate to see Waterford get one over them. Hopefully there are some people out there who can see the bigger picture though.

Just to clarify, I am not referring to a multi campus University. This would be a disaster.

fuzzy dunlop

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Then why mention them? Distance from other universities is a piss poor excuse for another one. Nobody needs to be within an hour of one. LYIT and Sligo have as much claim to university status going by the distance argument.

Because another poster tried to misinform people by saying that Waterford was already better served by third level facilities than Donegal. Misinformation that you're not too concerned about. Says a lot about the honesty of your contribution. Not to mention if you were truly impartial you would have picked up on it. And its not just distance its population density. The regional density is much greater than Connaught/Ulster. You would also have to ignore the fact that LYIT is simply not in the same league as the top three IT's of which WIT is one.

fuzzy dunlop

O Riain wrote: »

People need to change the terminology they are using in this whole discussion.

Half the country, politicians included, think that Waterford is not worth a slap. I think at this stage it is obvious we are not significant enough to gain a University "for Waterford" despite WITs high standard and all the reports saying that it is capable and would benefit the region.

That's why we need to emphasize that this is a Unversity not just for Waterford but for the entire Region. Waterford borders Kilkenny, Tipperary and Wexford with large population centres all in close proximity. People that are trying to get support for this should be goin up to Carrick, Kilmac, Mullinavat, New Ross, Kilkenny and gaining support for a University that they could commute to each day. Our politicians should be speaking to politicians from these areas and getting work done in regards to this. If we could get politicians from South Tipp, South Kilkenny and South Wexford on board with this then we will have half the battle won.

Obviously that is easier said then done cause I'm sure Kilkenny, Clonmel and New Ross have aspirations of their own University and would hate to see Waterford get one over them. Hopefully there are some people out there who can see the bigger picture though.

Just to clarify, I am not referring to a multi campus University. This would be a disaster.

To be fair it has been well emphasised as a regional institution by the University campaign for decades. That was always the mandate. That is why all the chambers of commerce are behind it. And frankly any politician that wasn't aware of it is frankly brain dead (No surprise). It was never a "Waterford Only" project. Only the usual parish pump antics have tried to express it this way. Its why the terms of reference set by the government for the Port report excluded the regional dimension in the terms of reference. It was a miracle that report was as favourable as it was considereing how loaded the dice was.

shruikan2553

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Because another poster tried to misinform people by saying that Waterford was already better served by third level facilities than Donegal. Misinformation that you're not too concerned about. Says a lot about the honesty of your contribution. Not to mention if you were truly impartial you would have picked up on it. And its not just distance its population density. The regional density is much greater than Connaught/Ulster. You would also have to ignore the fact that LYIT is simply not in the same league as the top three IT's of which WIT is one.

In the Republic of Ireland it is true, people shouldnt have to go to a different country.

Bit hypocritical to comment on people being truly impartial when you become hostile to any who dares to question the idea of Waterford becoming a university. WIT cant be that good if people are so desperate to get it upgraded to a university.

In the end, can keep it an IT or make it a university, most people wont care. I was merely pointing out that having to go a whole 2 hours to a place with a university isnt a big deal.

fuzzy dunlop

shruikan2553 wrote: »

In the Republic of Ireland it is true, people shouldnt have to go to a different country.

Bit hypocritical to comment on people being truly impartial when you become hostile to any who dares to question the idea of Waterford becoming a university. WIT cant be that good if people are so desperate to get it upgraded to a university.

In the end, can keep it an IT or make it a university, most people wont care. I was merely pointing out that having to go a whole 2 hours to a place with a university isnt a big deal.

Why not? Being in another jurisdiction is no barrier to going to a University or third level institution. What planet have you been living on? The whole commercial and political world has evolved around the free movement of labour and people to support business including educational institutions. And if it bothers you that much then go to an Irish institution, But the fact remains access to third level institutes in Donegal is good. Nobody is being hostile with you. You're the one whose argument is devoid of any logic and is simply contrarian. If you can't take the heat.... Any league tables usually re: the Irish Times consistently puts Waterford way ahead of LYIT, Sligo etc. You're just another member of that prestigious Irish club who has no argument that make sense. But what it really boils down to is that we have no change of getting something so you shouldn't either. It's also not just about travelling distance for students. The contribution universities make by supporting industry through research is the major factor.

O Riain

shruikan2553 wrote: »

In the Republic of Ireland it is true, people shouldnt have to go to a different country.

Bit hypocritical to comment on people being truly impartial when you become hostile to any who dares to question the idea of Waterford becoming a university. WIT cant be that good if people are so desperate to get it upgraded to a university.

In the end, can keep it an IT or make it a university, most people wont care. I was merely pointing out that having to go a whole 2 hours to a place with a university isnt a big deal.

On what planet is commuting 2 hours to a university ok? The point here is that when you are talking about more than a 45 minute drive then you actually have to move town to go to University. All those in the environs of Galway, Limerick, Dublin or Cork have the luxury of being able to attend University without the added burden of having to move town. This is in stark contrast to the people of the South East who, despite paying taxes just like the people in the other regions, are not deemed worthy enough to have the same rights to a third level education.

Fate Amenable To Change

shruikan2553 wrote: »

In the Republic of Ireland it is true, people shouldnt have to go to a different country.

Bit hypocritical to comment on people being truly impartial when you become hostile to any who dares to question the idea of Waterford becoming a university. WIT cant be that good if people are so desperate to get it upgraded to a university.

In the end, can keep it an IT or make it a university, most people wont care. I was merely pointing out that having to go a whole 2 hours to a place with a university isnt a big deal.

The point is that a lot of the time industries will start up and locate near the university because Students develop an affinity for the area and also industries can sprout from research etc. If you think Im sprouting bull**** look up TSSG, Arclabs and FeedHenry. A uni would draw in more funding and so the spin-offs for the area would be much greater.

The amount of money invested in WIT would be much greater as a Uni and allow it to attract more top class lecturers and improve the facilities available.

ec18

As much as I would like to see a university in Waterford, at the minute I think that it is better staying an IT for the time being. The university sector in Ireland is a mess atm and the current ones are underfunded according to nearly everyone. Also the Tech university idea is to be frank, bull****. It's the same as the RTC upgrade, a rebranding that will change nothing.

Based on the lack of political will in Government and the lack of political influence in Waterford at the minute I think the institute is best served to stay as an IT rather than get diluted by merging with Carlow which is by all accounts that I've read a sub par institute.

O Riain

ec18 wrote: »

As much as I would like to see a university in Waterford, at the minute I think that it is better staying an IT for the time being. The university sector in Ireland is a mess atm and the current ones are underfunded according to nearly everyone. Also the Tech university idea is to be frank, bull****. It's the same as the RTC upgrade, a rebranding that will change nothing.

Based on the lack of political will in Government and the lack of political influence in Waterford at the minute I think the institute is best served to stay as an IT rather than get diluted by merging with Carlow which is by all accounts that I've read a sub par institute.

Massively underfunded but still massively better funded then an institute of technology.

7upfree

O Riain wrote: »

Massively underfunded but still massively better funded then an institute of technology.

Funding (from the HEA website):

Cork €500m

Galway €300m

Limerick €250m

Waterford €85m

ec18

O Riain wrote: »

Massively underfunded but still massively better funded then an institute of technology.

my point is still the same that they universities will still be much better funded than the TU's. And a NUI in Waterford isn't happening whatever the political parties say at election time

fricatus

7upfree wrote: »

Funding (from the HEA website):

Cork €500m

Galway €300m

Limerick €250m

Waterford €85m

Is that for all institutions? For example is the Galway figure GMIT + NUIG or just NUIG alone?

Still shows how poorly we're treated that a city only a little bigger gets over three times as much HE funding. :mad:

7upfree

fricatus wrote: »

Is that for all institutions? For example is the Galway figure GMIT + NUIG or just NUIG alone?

Still shows how poorly we're treated that a city only a little bigger gets over three times as much HE funding. :mad:

Agreed.

I would imagine it is for all.

thomasm

This is up for discussion on Prime Time tonight

Hijpo

thomasm wrote: »

This is up for discussion on Prime Time tonight

Political interference they say?

7upfree

Hijpo wrote: »

Political interference they say?

Christ, you wouldn't want a degree in politics to see that. And its taken someone THIS long?!

Deise67

cats otta the bag now ! pity he's gone to Brussels for the cream !

Fate Amenable To Change

Has Prime Time gone way down hill in the last few years?

imacman

Well all of this mess is going to be played out in the media. The merger is gone and all we have left is politicians flailing trying to make themselves look as good as possible as this plays out.
SETU -RIP (and good riddance to Carlow)

Figerty

7upfree wrote: »

Scotland. Population 5.2 million people. 15 Universities.

Ireland......well we all know the story.....

How many Polytechnics converted to second rate universities...

7upfree

Figerty wrote: »

How many Polytechnics converted to second rate universities...

Not the point really......

fiachr_a

7upfree wrote: »

Not the point really......

Exactly! If other regions have a crap university where most graduates need to emigrate or do a JobBridge scheme then why not Waterford?

Hijpo

fiachr_a wrote: »

Exactly! If other regions have a crap university where most graduates need to emigrate or do a JobBridge scheme then why not Waterford?

So because others have to do it the southeast should continue to suffer?
That's just silly.

7upfree

Hijpo wrote: »

So because others have to do it the southeast should continue to suffer?
That's just silly.

In one. Well said.

robtri

I am in favour of Waterford getting a University... but on a basic level what Qualifies WIT to become a University? i.e. what is it doing above and beyond an I.T. to become a University...

JLenno

7upfree wrote: »

Funding (from the HEA website):

Cork €500m

Galway €300m

Limerick €250m

Waterford €85m

How depressing is that? All the figures are available at page 57 of www<dot>hea.ie/sites/default/files/hea_ar_12_ei_1.pdf

It gets even worse when you total up the amount per region. South east gets less than 10% of the total pot outside of the Dublin region.

What I don't get is that IT Tallaght get €3m in research funding from HEA with only "3,700 both full and part-time and a staff of 400" yet Waterford IT only gets €750k with over 10,000 students and 1000 staff. What's the story?

Carlow only got 85k for research funding.... less than Mary I teacher training college. I despair...

Why is John Halligan the only TD in the south-east I've heard actually speak about this total injustice to waterford and the region...

JLenno

robtri wrote: »

I am in favour of Waterford getting a University... but on a basic level what Qualifies WIT to become a University? i.e. what is it doing above and beyond an I.T. to become a University...

The real reason is this... several very strong research groups that put WIT on the map and deserve the funding which university status brings.

www(dot)wit.ie/research/centres_and_groups/research_centres