Neotion MPEG4 Cams - IDTV Ready List (NP4)

Sam Russell

Red Giant wrote: »

I've got a Sony KDL 40S2010. I was wondering if anyone knew if a mpeg4 cam would work in this one. Its seems to have one slot.

I have a KDL40S3000, and tried a Neotion card in it. It worked, that is it produced a picture, but it takes 2 or 3 seconds to change channels, which is not good. Also, it does not keep lipsync, and in a lot of programme material, it breaks up. A football match was totally broken up into blocks and random noise. When the trials were being transmitted up until August, it received perfectly, and now it can play the audio and the teletext. I would consider the Mpeg4 conversion to be totally unacceptably. I would rather get a new TV.

The analogue signal is OK, not as clear as a digital picture, but at least it is not breaking up. I will await a better solution. If the card was quicker, it might work, but converting from Mpeg4 to Mpeg2 takes time, and then decoding Mpeg2 is a further delay. I think that is fatal.

The_Conductor

Sam Russell wrote: »

I have a KDL40S3000, and tried a Neotion card in it. It worked, that is it produced a picture, but it takes 2 or 3 seconds to change channels, which is not good. Also, it does not keep lipsync, and in a lot of programme material, it breaks up. A football match was totally broken up into blocks and random noise. When the trials were being transmitted up until August, it received perfectly, and now it can play the audio and the teletext. I would consider the Mpeg4 conversion to be totally unacceptably. I would rather get a new TV.

The analogue signal is OK, not as clear as a digital picture, but at least it is not breaking up. I will await a better solution. If the card was quicker, it might work, but converting from Mpeg4 to Mpeg2 takes time, and then decoding Mpeg2 is a further delay. I think that is fatal.

I have an identical set. I used to have similar problems- particularly with lip sync- but its gotten a lot better in the past few months (the entire signal is about 2.8 seconds behind the analogue transmission). Lag between channel change is less then .5 second.

Apparently there are different software revisions for the Sonys some of which are optimised for DTT- I certainly don't have a recent version.

I also have a 26" W series Sony which is behaving identically.

Perhaps try a retune? Its not normal for channel change to take 4 seconds......

watty

Can be using a converter that fakes being a CAM.

A setbox is better. Esp with HDD. Wait a few months.

Sam Russell

I was very disapointed with the CAM, it did not work as well as I expected. The delay in changing channel was a lot longer than I remember the trials signal last July. Also I have got a Humax FOXSAT HDR and that changes channel much faster than the CAM, with an astonihing picture quality. The CAM picture was spoilt by the blocking and breakup of the picture in places of change, like the mouth of an announcer, the complete inability to handle a football match, and the drone of bees on the sound channel.

Maybe it is just the combination of signal strength and programme, but I sustect that the CAM is trying to do too much. I could not watch it. I will await a stb to solve the problem, or get a new TV with native Mpeg4, in a year or two.

Incidentaly, the TV will not play sound for the TV channels when switched to digital, but will for radio. However, if I go to radio, bring up the epg and move the pointer to tv, the hit ok, the sound come back to the TV channel. Obviously a bug for Mr. Sony to sort out.

STB

Sam Russell wrote: »

I was very disapointed with the CAM, it did not work as well as I expected. The delay in changing channel was a lot longer than I remember the trials signal last July. Also I have got a Humax FOXSAT HDR and that changes channel much faster than the CAM, with an astonihing picture quality. The CAM picture was spoilt by the blocking and breakup of the picture in places of change, like the mouth of an announcer, the complete inability to handle a football match, and the drone of bees on the sound channel.

Maybe it is just the combination of signal strength and programme, but I sustect that the CAM is trying to do too much. I could not watch it. I will await a stb to solve the problem, or get a new TV with native Mpeg4, in a year or two.

Incidentaly, the TV will not play sound for the TV channels when switched to digital, but will for radio. However, if I go to radio, bring up the epg and move the pointer to tv, the hit ok, the sound come back to the TV channel. Obviously a bug for Mr. Sony to sort out.

Heres something for you to try as I have witnessed it myself with the some of the Bravia series. Add the channels to a favourite list. Browse and change channels from that favourites lists. Any better ?

If not I suspect that you have either too,little or too much signal coming in. An adjustable booster should smooth it out for you and you may find a balance.

One further question. Is it a Neotion branded Mpeg4 Cam or a Turbosat branded Cam.

Sam Russell

The cam was a Neotion Viaaccess one I beleive, but the result was so bad, I sent it back. The trials that ended last July spoilt me, The downcoding in the CAM lost a lot of the crispness of the signal. I am used to digital satellite pictures, and the trial. The result of the CAM was terrible in a lot of ways. It is not the solution to me. I went satellite to get away from NTL, as their prices only went up and up. I do not like $ky, but freesat is wonderful. I will do with analogue for RTE for now.

A Freesat HD STB with a DTT tuner capable of Mpeg 4 would be a good solution for me, and Ireland in general. Particularly if the EPG were integrated.

Souriau

STB wrote: »

Heres something for you to try as I have witnessed it myself with the some of the Bravia series. Add the channels to a favourite list. Browse and change channels from that favourites lists. Any better ?

If not I suspect that you have either too,little or too much signal coming in. An adjustable booster should smooth it out for you and you may find a balance.

One further question. Is it a Neotion branded Mpeg4 Cam or a Turbosat branded Cam.

I bought a Pocket MPEG-4 Conex CAM for my iDTV, this failed to decode RTE MPEG-4 signal on my TV so the company refunded me.
I then bought a Pocket MPEG-4 Viaccess Extra this also failed to decode RTE signal but with an extra problem, it is breaking up my MPEG-2 signal from Divis. So I give up on the CAM and wait til there is an official MPEG-4 settop box

Can anyone tell me if Pocket MPEG-4 CAM is the same as Neotion MPEG-4 CAM?

Just so you know, the type of encryption which the CAM uses is irrelevant to the MPEG-4 conversion. If one CAM doesn't work then the other one won't either.

roverdublin

I can confirm that the NEOTION Pocket dTV Viaccess NP4 CI is working with my

TECHNISAT MULTIMEDIA TS1

This Sat receiver has a DVB-S and DVB-T tuner. Sadly the DVB-T tuner is MPEG2 and worked brilliantly until August last year when the DVB-T Signal was changed to MPEG4.

So, I had to try the NEOTION CI and it worked.
Even though I am in FOXROCK, I still need a good antenna. The THREE ROCK signal is weak.


NEOTION Pocket dTV Viaccess NP4 CI
http://neotionpocket.com/pocket_viaccess.php

Irish Bazza

As off this evening I am finally enable to receive the four TV Channels after a rechannel (no picture, sound only), I was only getting the 4 radio stations on my Samsung 40" LCD TV. A little progress

I have a CAM slot on the back of the TV, is the NEOTION Pocket dTV Viaccess NP4 CI worth getting to decode the picture. My signal is showing 85% from Kippure.

Your thoughts.

STB

What Model ?

Doesnt work on all the Samsungs..... notably the Samsung WS-32Z419D (says Apogee)

Works with these Samsung Models though.

LE32A456C2DXXC
LE46A566P1XZF
LE46A676A1MXZF
PS42C67HD
PS50C67HD
PS42C6HD
PS50C6HD
PS42C77HD
PS50C77HD
PS42C7HD
PS50C7HD
PS50C96HD
PS42E71HD
PS42E7HD
LE46F86BD
LE52F86BD
LE70F86BD
LE40N87BX
PS63P76FD
PS58P96
PS50P96FD
PS58P96FD
PS42Q7HD
PS50Q7HD
PS42Q96HD
PS50Q96HD
PS42Q97HD
PS50Q97HD
LE26R52BD
LE19R86BD
LE23R86BD
LE32R86BD
LE37R86BD
LE40R86BD
LE32R88BD
LE32S67BD
LE37S67BD
LE40S67BD
LE22S86BD
LE32S86BD

AND
LE 37A456
LE40M87BD (I'm guessing its this one you have - am I right ?)

Sam Russell

Irish Bazza wrote: »

As off this evening I am finally enable to receive the four TV Channels after a rechannel (no picture, sound only), I was only getting the 4 radio stations on my Samsung 40" LCD TV. A little progress

I have a CAM slot on the back of the TV, is the NEOTION Pocket dTV Viaccess NP4 CI worth getting to decode the picture. My signal is showing 85% from Kippure.

Your thoughts.

My experience for what it is worth is that the Neotion is not able to handle all inpu and gives a poor picture, with lipsync problems.
But you do get a picture.

I am waiting for a setop box.

STB

That was more than likely your TVs processor rather than the poor oul CAM. Yes Time lag is inevitable (DTT is behind analogue anyway timewise).

Your problem on the Sony sounded like too much signal or not enough. Pixels and Blockingand sound stutter are typical of poor reception or overload caused by an amp pulling crap in and not transcoding.

watty

The Neotion is poorer than a setbox. It's a real time MPEG4 Decoder + MPEG2 Encoder. It's poor on captions sharp edges and high bitrate/rapid movement.

The MPEG2 bit rate out is higher than normal MPEG2 bitrate.


But what STB says is true, Noticeable Pixelation at normal viewing distance and sound stutters are features of interference, high noise level, distortion on a pre-amp or poor signal generally.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

The Neotion is poorer than a setbox. It's a real time MPEG4 Decoder + MPEG2 Encoder. It's poor on captions sharp edges and high bitrate/rapid movement.

.

It is the addition of the extra encoding that is the problem
- decode Mpeg4 -encode Mpeg2 - decode Mpeg2 - TV
as opposed to
- decode Mpeg4 - TV
So three time delays rather than one. Three times the opportunity to introduce artefacts, instead of one. The sound is not treated the same, so loss of sync. In general a poor sticking plaster fix.
The set top box only does one decode.

naturalblue

Hi There
I have an LG 37LF65 tv. I bought a Viaccess Neotion NP4 Pocket CI CAm card.
I inserted it in the TV and the module was detected. I can go into the CI Module cards options and enable/disable mpeg4.
I am still having an issue with the RTE DTT. I can receive all the radio stations but get nothing for the TV stations. I have a proper DTT aerial and am getting a signal strength of 99%-100% all the time.
Does anyone have any ideas on what it could be.
I am in the rathmines area and not sure which transmitter I am receiving off.
Thanks

Sam Russell

naturalblue wrote: »

Hi There
I am in the rathmines area and not sure which transmitter I am receiving off.
Thanks

Probably Three Rock.

naturalblue

Thanks but any idea why the stations are not showing up when the card seems to being recognised and the signal strength is so high.

vega75

Hi all, new to all this but have been reading with great interest.
I hope I am not breaking any rules but if anyone has a Neotion
they would be interested in swopping for a zeta please pm

Please delete if this is not appropriate

Many Thanks

Vega

STB

You do know that the Neotion Cam is not for cracking satellites! Its for transcoding MPEG4 to MPEG2.

vega75

Thanks for the reply STB.
Over a period of time I have done a great deal of reading up on this subject.
Recently my daughter bought a Samsung telly with the pcmcia slot and in a bid to play (after reading) I bought a cam that I thought was suitable for assisting with "extra channels". After tinkering (and more reading) it became apparent that this cam was not suitable for a Samsung. All that I have read suggests they have very good results with Sonys. Thus in a bid to try a Neotion I am willing to swop the Zeta.

Vega

STB

The Zeta Cam that you are talking about will not work in a Sony TV either!

As far as google knows its a card for cracking (porn) satellite channels via a suitable open set top box.

Just in case you offer it to the wrong person:)

vega75

As I am told if it has certain "firmware", which my one does, all will
be well.

vega75

If anyone fancies giving it a go I would be more than happy to swop with a Neotion on a trial basis, that way if it they don't work we swop back and both learn something without paying out further.

At the end of the day I would prefer to try a Neotion before buying.
I do appreciate I am new and probably untrusted but I guarantee return if required.

Thanks for any interest.

Irish Bazza

I have a Samsung LCD LE40R7 TV and recently purchased a Turbosat MPEG 4 to MPEG 2 Viaccess Cam to view the TV stations. I have enabled the CAM, but still receive sound and no picture. Any advice?

Souriau

Since the transmission is back to 0x16
my IDTV with MPEG is now showing RTE but still no picture so I then added the NP4 turbosat and try but still no luck.
I could not try this for the past few months as they were all gone off my list now they have gone back to 0x16 I now received the 5 channesl with sound and blank pics,
Look like I just have to buy a proper MPEG-4 IDTV as the CAm is not doing anything at all

jammygit

watty wrote: »

However quality is poorer than a real setbox and you may have other problems. Do NOT waste money on one of these before Boxer launches. They may offer them free with subs.

I've tried the Neotion in several sets including JVC, Panasonic and Sony. The quality is very degraded in comparison to a built-in decoder or STB. Not really a proposition IMHO.

simatoel

This CAM works well in a new samsung LE46A55, but indifferent ly in a 3 year old LE3788BD. In the latter it sometimes crashes the TV on switch on, displaying a grainy SAMSUNG DTV logo, then cutting out and re booting. Switching on using the TV/DTV button on the remote seems to stop this. Sometimes picture freezes for minutes at a time, sometimes changing channel produces sound, no image, and you have to switch quickly back to analogue and then DTV to "wake up" the decoder. I assume that the current RTE test channels are in standard definition(SD) not HD. Given that the newer set is full HD, I wonder will the CAM decode HD MPEG4 to HD MPEG2 for viewing on the high res screen, or will it simply transcode all MPEG4 to SD MPEG2. The INFO field on the Samsung declares that the source is HD, but actual images look the same as from the SKY box RTE. I presume the original source is SD anyway hence no visible difference. I missed the trial where there was a single test HD source. Without the CAM inserted the new Samsung shows no image as expected, but displays a logo with "HD Not Supported" on it. This is worrying, as I dont Know if MPEG4 HD transmissions will actually display in HD using a CAM. Only other option is a STB, more remotes and mess. Incidentally, and RTE engineer friend reckons some TVs have the MPEG4 chip inside but turned off according to market specs. How likely is this in the samsung, and if present could it be turned on in service mode? (INFO, MENU, MUTE, POWER on a Samsung. Go there at your peril)

STB

simatoel wrote: »

This CAM works well in a new samsung LE46A55, but indifferent ly in a 3 year old LE3788BD. In the latter it sometimes crashes the TV on switch on, displaying a grainy SAMSUNG DTV logo, then cutting out and re booting. Switching on using the TV/DTV button on the remote seems to stop this. Sometimes picture freezes for minutes at a time, sometimes changing channel produces sound, no image, and you have to switch quickly back to analogue and then DTV to "wake up" the decoder. I assume that the current RTE test channels are in standard definition(SD) not HD. Given that the newer set is full HD, I wonder will the CAM decode HD MPEG4 to HD MPEG2 for viewing on the high res screen, or will it simply transcode all MPEG4 to SD MPEG2. The INFO field on the Samsung declares that the source is HD, but actual images look the same as from the SKY box RTE. I presume the original source is SD anyway hence no visible difference. I missed the trial where there was a single test HD source. Without the CAM inserted the new Samsung shows no image as expected, but displays a logo with "HD Not Supported" on it. This is worrying, as I dont Know if MPEG4 HD transmissions will actually display in HD using a CAM. Only other option is a STB, more remotes and mess. Incidentally, and RTE engineer friend reckons some TVs have the MPEG4 chip inside but turned off according to market specs. How likely is this in the samsung, and if present could it be turned on in service mode? (INFO, MENU, MUTE, POWER on a Samsung. Go there at your peril)

A lot of what you say is true. First off a lot of manufacturers did not stick rigidly to the DVBCI standard. Now that DVBCI+ is out there is nowhere to hide. Thats why the listing of what works in this thread is important.

As regards UK TVs (mainly the freesat combo TVs) containing MPEG4 processors having stuff turned off, the reality is that the full service types have not been defined so they behave as they are told to do so by their limitations. They are actually behaving according to the specs of the UK DBook which shortcuts DVB standards.

In many cases this can be rectified by a firmware upgrade but Panasonic for example will not do this as Freesat combo's are meant to be sold only within the UK which says a lot about how they regard NI! Hopefully there will be a kick up about it. LG LF7700 didnt go down this route and they work sucessfully with both HD Sat and DTT.

Meanwhile LG have also been rolling out firmware for their MPEG2 IDTVs so that they can be enabled by the Neotion CAM properly (eg LG3000 and LG5000)! Interestingly the new LG LH3000 range can play DIVX files directly with a firmware downgrade then upgrade. Support is everything. (I dont work for LG!)

Neotion CAMS NP4 transcode SD MPEG4 to MPEG2 not HD. I hear the new NP5+ Cams range do HD but not commercially available yet afaik. So whilst RTE have a HD encoder in its armoury its not an issue at the moment as it aint being used on air.

simatoel

Thanks STB, I agree that HD from RTE is probably not an issue as RTE's DTT itself is not officially launched, although whats there at the moment is I believe more or less the final version. When it is launched, the likleyhood of HD content is low for some time given their financial state. Never say never though, so it looks like the best route for HD from DTT is to use a set top box, unless the newer CAM can be shown to resolve HD transmissions, if and when they occur. At the moment the cam is useful in giving me high quality RTE while the SKY box is being used in another room on another channel, (my analogue RTE reception has always been very poor). Buying a new set with built in MPEG 4 (so called irish DTT ready) seemed like a risk not worth the extra premium, as the discount on a 46" non MPEG4 set was huge, and will more than cover the cost of a future purchase of a Freesat/DTT set top box. As regards firmware, There is no firmware upgrade posted on the samsumg site for the older LE37R88BD, and it doesent have a USB port though I'm guessing that firmware could be uploaded via the CAM as it's just a PCMCIA socket, the earliest version of memory plug in. I'll contact Samsung to see if they have any solution for older sets which are unhappy with the Neotion CAM, and post any info I get.