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Neotion MPEG4 Cams - IDTV Ready List (NP4)
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24-09-2008 3:19pm#1
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The minimum "Minimum Receiver Requirements" for Ireland has the following text in § 2:
"Compared to NorDig Unified 2.0 basic profile specification, the following major additional minimum requirements and clarifications are applicable for all IRDs:
• MPEG4 HD Level mandatory on all IRDs which among other things includes:
-- Video decoding (see chapter 5.2)
---- MPEG4 HP @ L4 HDTV (observe this includes HP @ L3 SDTV)
---- MPEG2 SDTV
-- Audio decoding (see chapter 5.3)
---- HE.AAC Level 4 multi-channel audio and
---- Enhanced AC3 (“Dolby Digital Plus”) multi-channel audio and
---- MPEG1 Layer 2 stereo audio"
I have shown an E-mail answer from Boxertv.dk, that says Boxer will NOT support the Neotion card (at least not in Denmark).
Neotion has since confirmed that HE-AAC sound is not transcoded and they have no firm plan nor timetable for implementing this.
This article and the comments will give more information. (comments page 2 of 3 middle will be informative)
(I am NOT the Lars that has written the article nor do I have any relation to the article-webside except as a forum member).
How can anyone publish lists of compatible products, when a minimum receiver requirement is 100% not supported ?
It may well be TV without sound. :mad:
Lars
Translate the Danish texts with google.0 -
Lars
First of all you should read RTE's Additions and clarifications to NorDig Unified Requirements 2.0)
This quite clearly states that "all IRDs shall be able to receive and decode MPEG4 AVC (H.264) based SDTV and HDTV services, MHEG5 data services, and DVB subtitling services.How can anyone publish lists of compatible products, when a minimum receiver requirement is 100% not supported ?
It may well be TV without sound.
[/B]
Rubbish.
The Neotion cams work perfectly with DTT broadcasts per the LCDs that they are listed as being compatiable with.
I posted the list so that those thinking of buying a €41 cam knew that it would/wouldnt work on their TV having contacted Neotion for the list.
In case you dont know Neotion was developed in France to solve the situation of quick fixing legacy IDTVs with Mpeg2 chipsets.
And again the broadcast standard in this country is not the same in other countries. What Boxer do in Sweden or Denmark or wherever is irrelevant to this countries standards.
Stop scaremongering please. The list is posted as a possile solution for Irish Terrestrial viewers not people in Denmark or Sweden.0 -
Lars
First of all you should read RTE's Additions and clarifications to NorDig Unified Requirements 2.0)
This quite clearly states that "all IRDs shall be able to receive and decode MPEG4 AVC (H.264) based SDTV and HDTV services, MHEG5 data services, and DVB subtitling services.
But it also states:
"However observe that to meet the minimum receiver requirements set out in this document, all IRDs shall meet the NorDig HD Level requirements (including advanced codecs like MPEG4 AVC HP@L4 HDTV video decoder, HE.AAC multi-channel audio decoder and Enhanced AC3 (“DolbyDigitalPlus”) multi-channel audio decoder)." /RTE page 7 of 23.
The pages i quoted showed extracts of a direct answer from Neotion stating that HE-AAC is not supported.
If you have other info, I will be most happy to know.In case you dont know Neotion was developed in France to solve the situation of quick fixing legacy IDTVs with Mpeg2 chipsets.
But France do not use HE-AAC audio - AFAIK.And again the broadcast standard in this country is not the same in other countries. What Boxer do in Sweden or Denmark or wherever is irrelevant to this countries standards.
But the above quote is not from Boxer, but from RTE.
When you forward the message "that something is working" - you should not just 'think so', you should check any little doubt and be 100% sure.
Lars
Her is a quote from the comments link above.
"Michael Gamst - 2009/01/26
@Lars (Admin), "(Neotion svarer selv: "Our current module does not handle the HE-AAC for the moment. It only transcode the MPEG4 video and then all is resynchronized video+audio." og de fortsætter: "Theoretically, our future chip can support HE-AAC. But it needs some development and we can?t give the estimated time for it.")0 -
Lars,
Lets try it once more.
Denmarks profile is not the same as Irelands. Neither is the Output.
Neotion Cams are presently transcoding succesfully the MPEG4 H264 broadcasting content to mpeg2, INCLUDING the audio (for those listed at the start of this thread).
In Ireland the commercial multiplex is not on air, only the PSB.
Regarding your comment about 100% claims. These CAMS were made for France as a solution to a French problem. They are also handy in Estonia, Poland, Slovenia, Portugal, Hungary and NZ.
Posting issues that other countries have that do not apply here only causes confusion (you are not allowed mention DVB-T2! ) 0 -
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Lars,
Lets try it once more.
Denmarks profile is not the same as Irelands. Neither is the Output.
Neotion Cams are presently transcoding succesfully the MPEG4 H264 broadcasting content to mpeg2, INCLUDING the audio (for those listed at the start of this thread).
In Ireland the commercial multiplex is not on air, only the PSB.
I am NOT writing about any Danish profile - just the RTE paper, that very clearly states that support for HE-AAC is a requirement and Neotion that equally clearly states that HE-AAC is not supported.
That HE-AAC is not currently broadcast in test does not mean that it will not be broadcast 'tomorrow'.
There is a general trend towards using HE-AAC in most 'new situations'. The RTE has published this minimum requirement paper to be able to freely make such changes.
But why don't you write the RTE and ask: "How long will the DTT transmissions in Ireland only use MPEG1 Layer 2 stereo audio ?"
Or you may write Neotion and ask youself about the HE-AAC support if you don't trust my quotes.
Lars 0 -
But why don't you write the RTE and ask: "How long will the DTT transmissions in Ireland only use MPEG1 Layer 2 stereo audio ?"
Lars
They dont.
At present they use H264 AAC encoded at 128kbps in 48 khz range, from what I can see (ta Karsini).
There is a multitude of audio codecs in the spec, which wont necessarily be used. Options, Lars.
Nothing is future proof! Its a quick, cheap fix at present,0 -
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John Dough wrote: »According to a Sony centre techie in Manchester all 2009 models of DVD/HDD units support Mpeg4.
He guaranteed that but check for yourself as the 1095 came out in 2008 if I am not mistaken.
The ability to play Div-x files and the whether or not the DVB-T digital tuner can decode mpeg4 H264 broadcasts is easy to confuse. They are not the same.
In this case I would imagine the techie was refering to the units supporting MPEG4 Div X files NOT the broadcasting format of MPEG4 H264 AVC. An easy mistake to make as terrestrial broadcasts in Manchester would be in MPEG2 anyhow, so he would not be familiar with MPEG4 as a broadcast format.
The tuner in the Sony model above from what I can see is MPEG2 and therefore not compatible with Irish DTT.
I do not know the answer to whether or not the Neotion Cam would support it. In my opinion given the cost of this machine in the first place it would not be a wise investment.
There are others on the market - due to come out, bear in mind they are quite expensive for what they do!
Sharp Aquos have some new DVRs coming out that allow recording in MPEG4 AVC format....... I would imagine they will be pretty expensive.
Likewise Toshiba have 2 coming out also. The Toshiba Vardia RD-G503 with a 500GB of hard drive, while the RD-E303 has a 300GB hard drive.
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The ability to play Div-x files and the whether or not the DVB-T digital tuner can decode mpeg4 H264 broadcasts is easy to confuse. They are not the same.
In this case I would imagine the techie was refering to the units supporting MPEG4 Div X files NOT the broadcasting format of MPEG4 H264 AVC. An easy mistake to make as terrestrial broadcasts in Manchester would be in MPEG2 anyhow, so he would not be familiar with MPEG4 as a broadcast format.
The tuner in the Sony model above from what I can see is MPEG2 and therefore not compatible with Irish DTT.
I do not know the answer to whether or not the Neotion Cam would support it. In my opinion given the cost of this machine in the first place it would not be a wise investment.
There are others on the market - due to come out, bear in mind they are quite expensive for what they do!
Sharp Aquos have some new DVRs coming out that allow recording in MPEG4 AVC format....... I would imagine they will be pretty expensive.
Likewise Toshiba have 2 coming out also. The Toshiba Vardia RD-G503 with a 500GB of hard drive, while the RD-E303 has a 300GB hard drive.
Thanks STB for your input. This is a common mistake as you rightly point out. DivX is MPEG4 which confuses retailers into thinking that units which can play DVDs in this format, can also recieve DTT in the same format.
The trouble with the Vardia units is that they are only available in Japan. :-( See here - http://www.lifeatmost.com/entertainment/toshiba-vardia-rd-g503-and-rd-e303-with-huge-storage-capacity/
If only we could get such a unit in this neck of the woods! It seems to me that manufacturers are leaving it very late indeed before turning out HDD DVD recorders / PVRs for the Irish market - in fact, that's if they ever do in the current financial climate. There just may not be enough uptake...0 -
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STB you put a lot of effort into a long list of TVs that work with neotion cam,many thanks.But i was wondering have you any idea of the sony KDL 46x2000 ? might a cam work and if so what should i buy? x range seem to be off the list which looks like the whole alphabet.I did buy a cam late last year off a shop in Dublin because they insisted everybody on the boards.ie was buying them but it didnt work(strange thing was it didnt say neotion or NP,it had an engilsh web-add on it,so maybe it was a clone).I also rang sony (Tallaght number) but the call center is UK based, so the help desk told me quote (we have never heard of RTE and why should we as were in England) they then declared RTE do not brodcast in digital because if they did a digital tv would pick it up,i tried to explain mpeg4 back to mpeg2 but no joy with them.I would much appreciate any info you might have on a cam with this tv.
The Turbosat Card perhaps - I would advise against buying anything branded outside of Neotion, since the list of compatabilty is for Neotion Cards.
Neotion have several cards and modules - Heres the table of what each one does.
http://neotionpocket.com/table.htm
Conformity
http://neotionpocket.com/about_conformity.php
Your TV IS supported by a neotion card - "Neotion Pocket DTV" Below is an updated list which includes new models supported.
The original list is also below.0 -
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