Supernatural Season 4 [**Spoilers**]

tvnutz

ixoy wrote: »

I'm also not clear as to why they took Sam's memories given the angels don't really like Sam and wouldn't want to put him on this path.

Well I reckon it was because if Sam wasn't stuck into the whole thing,he would have noticed Dean was missing,went and found him and realised someone had taken his memories. So they needed Sam to be a part of it,but you could really see they don't think much of him,they gave him the crappy job while Dean was the executive.

And when Zachariah was applauding that Dean finally figured out who he really was meant to be,he never mentioned anything about Sam,when it was clearly Sam who convinced Dean where his destiny lay.

tvnutz

Another great episode. I love how they can make an episode so funny and serious at the same time. It was really funny when they were reading the books and talking to the fan girl. So Chuck is a prophet given the word of God and protected by an archangel! Clearly he didn't see anything good at the end and for some reason Zachariah didn't want him to warn Sam and Dean. Is he a dodgy angel as well?

I like how Castiel is starting to make his own choices,telling Dean how to protect Sam from Lilith.Only a few episodes left this season and it looks like it will be some finale.

Sarn

That was totally biblical! Good episode, moves things along a little, nice blend of seriousness and humour. Good opportunity for the lads to take a look at themselves. Guess Lillith is going to get it by the end of this season, Sam just needs a bit more turbo charging.

Mr E

Great episode. Classic supernatural - moving the story along, and lots of laughs along the way. That scene in the laundromat was very good.

Really have to try and avoid spoilers for the last few episodes. Only 4 to go now.....

ixoy

Excellent stuff - a great mixture of the hilarious and dark. All the meta-jokes were spot on (the book titles being episode titles, the slash fiction and their reaction, etc.) and yet we still managed to see the sort of dark places Sam is prepared to go. Be very interesting to see where it all goes, especially with Chuck and Zachariah teasing us about it at the end...

J-blk

Only got to see the last 2 episodes now - and both were the usual season 4 quality. Great episode with "The Monster at the End of This Book" and as everyone here mentioned, a great mix of the funny and dark moments ("the prophet Chuck" reference cracked me up every time ).

Enjoyed the previous one too, had an "Office Space" feel to it, especially with Sam snapping at the end and smashing his phone to pieces...

tvnutz

Supernatural was back last night after another annoying break. Hopefully that will be the last one and we have a full run of eps until the finale.

This episode moved away from the main story of angels and end of the world,was slower paced but still was very good I thought. It really showed the role reversal of Sam and Dean. Sam has become his father,wanting to train "Adam" whereas Dean wanted him to have a normal life. At the end when Sam suggested asking Castiel to bring him back,Dean said no,their father wanted Adam to have a normal life and death and that is what he had.

I liked how they named this episode "Jump the Shark",because most shows that add in a long lost sibling tend to be grasping for storylines and come close to "jumping the shark" but Supernatural doesn't fall into that trap.The real Adam was actually their brother but they never met him,never knew him,he was dead before they even got to the town so no future corny storylines with the half-brother. I also didn't find it a stretch that John could have had another kid,as Sam said he was a hunter going to different towns,saves the girl and is not a monk!

tvnutz

nobody watched the new episode? no? come on people! probably the best show in terms of consistant quality this season!

J-blk

tvnutz wrote: »

nobody watched the new episode? no? come on people! probably the best show in terms of consistant quality this season!

Watched it first thing Friday night (Supernatural has moved to the top of the queue of shows I watch...) but thanks to UPC, no broadband for almost all of Saturday so couldn't post :mad:.

It was another terrific episode, from the title right down to how they played out the half-sibling story... Loved the role reversal you mentioned (and it shows how far both Sam and Dean have come from the beginning of the show), Dean's paranoia about what Adam really was at the restaurant and learning something new about John (seems he didn't want to make the "mistakes" he made raising Sam and Dean as hunters with his second family).

There is no other show at the moment that can do what would squarely be considered as "filler" and do it so well - I've absolutely enjoyed pretty much every episode this season...

How exactly the finale is going to live up to this standard is beyond me, but they've set an excellent track record so far... And as far as I know, we should get the remaining episodes back-to-back, no more annoying breaks.

ixoy

tvnutz wrote: »

nobody watched the new episode? no? come on people! probably the best show in terms of consistant quality this season!

I did! I thought it was pretty ballsy of them to call the episode "Jump the Shark". I kept wavering, like them, as to whether Adam was really their brother or not. Then when he turned into a ghoul I thought, with some relief, that it was just a made-up trap. But oh no - that'd be too happy for this season when we got the double whammy of Adam having been brutally murdered before they ever knew him, just because he was a Winchester.

Anyone else find the ghouls particularly disturbing? I think it's because they had human form. The bit where they began to feast on Sam was particularly gruesome.

As to the dynamic - I also found it quite eerie when Sam began thinking like his dad and being the cold one, teaching Adam how to fight. What a change from the first season when it would have been Dean being the gung-ho member and Sam preaching caution. This can't end happily.

Mr E

Haven't watched it yet. Stockpiling some shows for a trip next week... glad to hear the positive feedback!

tvnutz

ixoy wrote: »

Anyone else find the ghouls particularly disturbing? I think it's because they had human form. The bit where they began to feast on Sam was particularly gruesome.

Ye they were fairly disturbing,doesn't help that they take the form of the last person they killed. Some things on the show are so graphic as well! They showed Sam's arms just being slit open and his blood pouring into bowls. Nice image!

Jafin

Awesome, didnt know this was here! Ive been following Supernatural since Ep 1, always loved it! Mised a lot of season 2 unfortunately, must get that on dvd, or BluRay if its on that. Anywho just making my presence known among you Supernatural fanatics!
Just wondering does anyone know when (or if?) TV3 will be showing season 4 as one of my friends doesnt like watching online. Or even if BBC are gonna show it? Thanks in advance guys.

J-blk

AFAIK, only season 3 has been released on Blu-ray (and season 4 will be too) - seasons 1 and 2 are DVD only...

As for TV3, I saw some discussions on other threads but I don't think they have started showing season 4 at all - ITV2 has been showing it but since I don't follow it on TV here, I'm not 100% sure of the specifics...

bada_bing

tvnutz wrote: »

Ye they were fairly disturbing,doesn't help that they take the form of the last person they killed. Some things on the show are so graphic as well! They showed Sam's arms just being slit open and his blood pouring into bowls. Nice image!

i wonder if the blood loss that sam had might have reduced the amount of demon blood in him and perhaps weaken his powers?????

tvnutz

bada_bing wrote: »

i wonder if the blood loss that sam had might have reduced the amount of demon blood in him and perhaps weaken his powers?????

interesting,its possible but he can just go get a refill off Ruby if he wants!

tvnutz

Another brilliant episode.We got to see Jimmy,the person Castiel was using as a vessel. It was great to see that bit of backstory and how Jimmy,while devout just wanted to go home to his family because he felt he gave his time and he was done. He then sacrificed any normal life so his daughter wouldn't have to be the vessel. That was really cool when Cas took over the daughter and started to kill the demons.

We also get to see Sam going through demon blood withdrawals,so much so that he went all vampire and starting sucking blood from a demon's neck. really great scene when he turned around with blood all over his mouth and exorcised the demon that was in Jimmy's wife.

And then we are left with 2 very interesting situations. Having being dragged back to Heaven against his will (we still don't know exactly what happened there) Cas has lost whatever sympathies he had for humans and for Dean. He serves heaven and definatly not Dean. That could be an interesting turn.

Then of course we have Dean and Bobby locking Sam in the devil's trap room so he can go cold turkey. Can't wait for the last few eps.

J-blk

That was a brilliant episode indeed - kudos to Misha Collins for his acting both as Castiel and Jimmy in this episode. He did a great job going from the loving father who only wanted to get home to the cold, focused on his mission angel... I thought it was an interesting parallel that Jimmy was losing his faith (he no longer wanted to pray at the dinner table) after all he'd been through and Castiel seemed to have lost faith in Dean/humans, turning back to what heaven wants him to do... essentially they both seemed to be doing a 180 on what they previously believed.

The demon fight with the daughter as the vessel and the scene with Sam were just perfect too.

A pretty dark episode overall but I had to laugh at Dean hitting on Anna in the car and her retort "Dean, not the most appropriate time" .

Cannot wait for the last two episodes of the season...

ixoy

Ah more jollies in Season 4 of 'Supernatural' - will the laughs never stop?

Really enjoyed this one. Misha Collins is a great addition this season and it was interesting to see how Castiel came to inhabit him and the price he was forced to pay. Castiel is, in some ways, a bit of a dick (as Dean would say) but at least we got some empathy here.
I did jump when Jimmy got shot after the chilling "Now everybody dies" line. Castiel inhabiting Jimmy's daughter was pretty wicked as the gang looked pretty screwed up to that point.

How freaky was it when Sam turned to Dean and Castiel, with blood running down his face?

As to the end - didn't see that coming, even if I should have when Dean seemed too blasé. Even when they led him into the room, I suspected they had maybe caught one of Lilith's side-kicks. It's been leading here for a while and I'm curious to see how they're going to approach this especially with Castiel now no longer interested in them (or is that a bluff on his part to fool his peers?).

Great season.

Mr E

Watched the 2 latest back to back. Last weeks was much better than this week. Everything has been said about last weeks, so I won't go into it.

This weeks was dark stuff, and I didn't really enjoy it. I think it served its purpose (to tee up next week's season finale), but it wasn't a really strong episode on its own.

Looking forward to next week - should be a good one....

tvnutz

It was much more of a character driven episode,i.e. all the stuff with Sam going through demon blood detox. Seeing his mother,his younger self etc.

It was basically setting things up for the finale but we did have a great fight between Sam and Dean at the end and we also saw Castiel becoming a d!ck as Dean put it. What were his motivations in letting Sam go? And he took Anna into angel style custody.

Anyway,looks like it will be some finale and whatever else it has been a brilliant season in its entirety and I don't think any other show this year has had consistantly good episodes one after another.

J-blk

Solid episode though, indeed, mostly set up for what is bound to be a great finale. And Bobby had a pretty hefty part in it too - it was heart breaking when he had the gun on Sam and couldn't bring himself to hurt him, letting him get away...

tvnutz wrote: »

What were his motivations in letting Sam go? And he took Anna into angel style custody.

I think the angels know that it's Sam and only Sam that can indeed stop Lilith. The whole "it's you Dean", I think refers to the fact that Dean is the one who will have to hunt down and stop Sam, after he becomes completely corrupted because of all the demon blood/power needed to take Lilith down. I haven't read any spoilers but I'm guessing this is the direction things will take and season 5 may in fact have Dean and Sam as adversaries throughout. And I'm not sure a happy ending is in the cards if season 5 is indeed where they want to wrap it up...

ixoy

I'm wondering can they ever go back from this? J-Blk may have it spot on there - Sam is needed to stop Lilith and then Dean will be needed to stop Sam. When Sam walked out that door he may indeed be never coming back to Dean.

The episode was, in some sense, filler but it was needed to set the characters for the final endgame of this season. I wonder if there's some terrible final twist where Satan actually wants Sam to take out Lilith and have Sam become his new representative? It'd tie back in with the original plans for Sam from S2's end.

On a side note - anyone else afraid for Bobby? He's been in so many episodes and keeps surviving even in his darkest of seasons. Oh and if you know something about him for next week, don't even post it as a spoiler please

][cEMAN**

Hi, long time listener, first time caller...

Was wondering about what the last seal could be, and the relevance to the Winchesters. I have a thought

Ruby mentioned about the first that Lucifer turned, and him being the one that needs to set him free. Well she mentioned it might be lilith, but what if it's Azazel? What if the blood was a way of it being the blood of the 1st having the power to set him free? Just wondering if Sam becomes the monster Dean has to hunt, and we either end up with an end of season "Dean kills Sam to stop lucifer going free, how will he get back in season 5" or "Dean stops Sam, but sam goes rogue, and dean spends season 5 hunting him", or "Dean or Sam stop Lilith and everything goes happily ever after"? Somehow I don't think it' the last.

Either way I don't think Lucifer is going to rise in the last episode. Would be cool, but it would technically be the end, and I think it's set for a season 5?

I also just found a random quote that may support this idea.

It was Azazel, also known as Samael ("Venomous God"), who tempted Adam and Eve with the Fruit of Knowledge in the form of a serpent

Possible direct relation between Azazel and 'sam'. Becoming? Means he was around before the first (adam). Could have been Sam/Az was the first, lucifer twisted him, and god had another shot and made Adam. I know this is all speculation on stories, but i'm just wondering what the writers are thinking, and it could be a take they may have on it.

Possibly as it would take the first to be powerful enough to break the seal, as mentioned, Lilith may be the seal, and it might take Sam becoming Az (or as powerful as him through his blood), to kill her and thus breaking the last seal

******i** ****** is the ***** **** that has ** ** broken ****** ******* can ***e

Orion

J-blk wrote: »

I think the angels know that it's Sam and only Sam that can indeed stop Lilith. The whole "it's you Dean", I think refers to the fact that Dean is the one who will have to hunt down and stop Sam,

Maybe Sam is the last seal. A human becoming demon could be the clincher. Demons only personify through possession so maybe Sam must have enough demon in him that Lucifer can possess him. And the Angels know this so they released him to allow it to happen in order for Dean to stop him.

Anyways - nice filler episode to set up a kick ass season finale

tvnutz

Macros42 wrote: »

Maybe Sam is the last seal. A human becoming demon could be the clincher. Demons only personify through possession so maybe Sam must have enough demon in him that Lucifer can possess him. And the Angels know this so they released him to allow it to happen in order for Dean to stop him.

Anyways - nice filler episode to set up a kick ass season finale

Ye i was thinking that myself.Ruby was talking about how Lilith was a human whose soul was twisted and turned by Lucifer and therefore she was the one who would break the last seal. But that sounds a lot like what is happening to Sam right now. What if he is the one to break the last seal? Dean broke the first one...Sam to break the last?

J-blk

ixoy wrote: »

On a side note - anyone else afraid for Bobby? He's been in so many episodes and keeps surviving even in his darkest of seasons.

Yep, I think the same every time they bring Bobby back - oh no, they're going to kill him off! But thankfully he always survives to the next episode/season .

tvnutz

J-blk wrote: »

Yep, I think the same every time they bring Bobby back - oh no, they're going to kill him off! But thankfully he always survives to the next episode/season .

Bobby is a great character. You do always fear for him but hopefully they won't kill him off!

JP Liz

Castiel is one of the best characters ever on this great show

I cant wait for next season already

One of the best finales ever!

tvnutz

Well,what a great finale. It wasn't what I expected,I had thought there would be a big showdown between Sam and Dean but it didn't happen. Instead we find out both of them were just being used as pawns by heaven and hell. The angels want Lucifer to be freed so they can have a full on war with him and the demons,which apparantly will end up with Dean killing lucifer and the world will be a paradise...

Ruby was playing Sam the whole time,and in fairness to her,like she said,she was pretty damn good.Only Lilith knew of her plan,every other demon thought she was a traitor,so she had her work cut out for her,and it worked fairly well! Great to see her gutted by Dean though,been waiting for that for a while! So Lilith dying was the last seal. Dean broke the first,Sam broke the last. Great going guys!

I hope Castiel isn't dead,because he seemed to be slightly screwed last time we saw him. Next season has a lot of potential now. That's one thing I love about this show,most other shows will not go as far as they do. Last season I didn't think they would go so far as to send Dean to hell,but it happened. this year they didn't stop Lucifer and he is one the way!

Overall it has been a fantastic season and probably the best show of the year in overall consistant quality. I also watched the p!ss poor season finale of Smallville after it and dear God what a lot of crap. I can't believe more people watch Smallville than Supernatural.

Until next season then!