M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Cork Trucker

marno21 wrote: »

This is just bizarre from the Green Party. A team of qualified experts has spent a year assessing which option of Cork-Limerick is the best and they have discovered that the N20 route is the only viable option. The volume of traffic that would use the other SIX corridors they examined is not enough to make a non-N20 routing viable. In other words, any option other than the N20 routing would be a waste of money. This involved lengthy periods of data collection, analysis and modelling. Yet the Green Party are unwilling to accept the findings of this scientific research.

What's the difference here between denial of the non=viability of an M8 routing and denial of the scientific consensus on climate change?

https://twitter.com/sendboyle/status/1234499361301835786?s=21

AugustusMinimus

Your not going to win. Green Party simply don’t want to hear that a road may actually make sense.

Idbatterim

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Your not going to win. Green Party simply don’t want to hear that a road may actually make sense.

he is right in general, but this scheme makes sense. far better off reducing spend on roads and putting it towards cycling infrastructure, bus connects, more buses and DU and Dublin metro...

AugustusMinimus

Idbatterim wrote: »

he is right in general, but this scheme makes sense. far better off reducing spend on roads and putting it towards cycling infrastructure, bus connects, more buses and DU and Dublin metro...

That’s all city infrastructure. This road is to plug the biggest inter city gap we have. And a rail line is simply not the answer.

marno21

The issue here isn't about roads investment vs public transport investment.

The issue is the Green Party advocating a solution to the Cork-Limerick problem that doesn't make sense, has been declared unviable after a year of data driven research, and would be a waste of money vs the alternatives.

There is no sensible reason to proceed with an M8 based approach when it has been found to be a poor value for money solution to the issue at hand.

This response:

Roads planning is scientific and is the same as we measure climate change? That's a bit of a stretch. Such planning is formed on tired and broken ways of thinking. We can't continue to go on doing things the way we have always done them.

is nonsense. The work to date on this project has looked at the costs of the various options vs the traffic that will use the various options. It uses traffic modelling and journey information to decide which option is the most viable. Or is he advocating that we choose the solution that would see the least volume of traffic using the motorway? Such an outcome fails to account that the traffic that wouldn't use the motorway won't just go away, it'll continue to use the existing road. And clog the towns, and sit in traffic emitting from idling engines, and the deaths on the route wouldn't go away.

marno21

Also, not a whole lot has changed since this was published in 2010 as part of the M20 EIS

Page 51/52

trellheim

hence my point above why not just revisit that

serfboard

Climate change experts are experts and ayone who says they aren't is ...

Transport planning experts are not experts and anyone who says they are is ...

Dan Boyle is an anti-road fundamentalist - logic and reason will not break through here.

marno21

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/greens-demand-improved-public-transport-take-priority-over-corklimerick-motorway-in-fine-gael-talks-985361.html

Some fresh leadership and an understanding of the word "compromise" might be useful within this organisation.

corinthion

good reading here in case anybody missed it

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/specialreports/special-report-lack-of-investment-stalls-drive-to-get-cork-city-moving-985062.html

Last Stop

corinthion wrote: »

good reading here in case anybody missed it

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/specialreports/special-report-lack-of-investment-stalls-drive-to-get-cork-city-moving-985062.html

Funny that while the criticism is entirely valid and Cork has been failed in terms of investment (I mean compare it to the number of projects built on the Wexford corridor over the past decade!) but the article is fully focused on roads.

No mention of the event centre, a runway extension or crucially Cork Luas!!

Mc Love

Cookiemunster wrote: »

They seem to be down on all routes into the city, not just near the motorway, so I doubt they're the same thing. Plus the motorway already runs to Patrickwell, so I don't know if traffic counts on the cities arterial routes would be related to this.

Looks like I was right, this is from Limerick Council on twitter.

Idaso Limited is carrying out traffic surveys on National and Regional roads in Limerick, Cork and Tipperary to assist with the planning and design of the NM20 Cork to Limerick Scheme. For queries, please contact the NM20 Project Office on 061973730 or info@corklimerick.ie

Limerick74

Mc Love wrote: »

Looks like I was right, this is from Limerick Council on twitter.

Idaso Limited is carrying out traffic surveys on National and Regional roads in Limerick, Cork and Tipperary to assist with the planning and design of the NM20 Cork to Limerick Scheme. For queries, please contact the NM20 Project Office on 061973730 or info@corklimerick.ie

The traffic surveys in limerick city environs are for the LNDR and were installed by NDC. The surveys for the NM20 are outside of the city environs and continue down to Cork including the N40. These are installed by Idaso. This week is an overlap between the two surveys.

Mc Love

That's me told

hans aus dtschl

Limerick74 wrote: »

The surveys for the NM20 are outside of the city environs and continue down to Cork including the N40. These are installed by Idaso.

Any idea if these continue into east Cork? Lots of survey equipment currently on the back roads.

Idbatterim

Us dubs will be able to help with your cork luas public consultation, given the one up here Is a farce !

marno21

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Any idea if these continue into east Cork? Lots of survey equipment currently on the back roads.

Likely are. Plenty around the city and suburbs, Western Road, Sarsfield Road, Airport Hill, Carrigrohane Road I’ve seen today

Limerick74

marno21 wrote: »

Likely are. Plenty around the city and suburbs, Western Road, Sarsfield Road, Airport Hill, Carrigrohane Road I’ve seen today

Map of survey locations on following link: https://corksafetyalerts.com/news/n-m20-cork-limerick-notice-of-traffic-surveys/

Isambard

there seems to be a camera associated with the survey on the N72 leaving Mallow....what's that for?

Limerick74

Isambard wrote: »

there seems to be a camera associated with the survey on the N72 leaving Mallow....what's that for?

They will need a wide (geographic) understanding of the traffic movements in the region to develop (and validate) a traffic model for the scheme.

Isambard

Limerick74 wrote: »

They will need a wide (geographic) understanding of the traffic movements in the region to develop (and validate) a traffic model for the scheme.

how does a camera do that ? I haven't seen them elsewhere where the rubber strips are.

Limerick74

Isambard wrote: »

how does a camera do that ? I haven't seen them elsewhere where the rubber strips are.

ANPR origin destination survey (& journey time). The rubber strips just confirm volumes.

Cork Trucker

If Ryan is Taoiseach even for one year then the country and this project are fúcked

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/greens-push-for-ryan-to-be-taoiseach-for-one-year-in-three-way-coalition-1.4195557?mode=amp

Cookiemunster

Cork Trucker wrote: »

If Ryan is Taoiseach even for one year then the country and this project are fúcked

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/greens-push-for-ryan-to-be-taoiseach-for-one-year-in-three-way-coalition-1.4195557?mode=amp

Don't worry about it, there's not a snowballs hope in hell of that ever happening. FF + FG can get a working majority with independent support. If they bring the Greens onboard, there's no way they give the minority party leader a go at being leader.

Sam Russell

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Don't worry about it, there's not a snowballs hope in hell of that ever happening. FF + FG can get a working majority with independent support. If they bring the Greens onboard, there's no way they give the minority party leader a go at being leader.

Remember some guy call Gilmore who reckoned on being the beloved leader. What ever happened to him?

Cork Trucker

Sam Russell wrote: »

Remember some guy call Gilmore who reckoned on being the beloved leader. What ever happened to him?

Ah yes, the "Gilmore Gale" or "Gilmore for Taoiseach" He fizzled away quite quickly afterwards. FF are good for building road projects, they showed that in their last stint in government, FG are 'tight arsed' when it comes to spending money, then you have Martin who desperately wants to be Taoiseach and would be likely to be the one who would have to give up a year of his term of office to facilitate such a demand, i'd rather they stuck on a few pool gene independents to get the M20 built rather than MM selling out to the Greens, mind you all of this is good news for SF who will lead the opposition no matter what by the looks of it.

Also remember Ryan's comments from the not too distant past, this will certainly put a nail in the M20 coffin.

https://gript.ie/eamon-ryan-when-im-in-charge-it-will-be-one-car-per-ten-families/

Eamon Ryan: When I’m in charge, it will be one car per ten families

Cork Trucker

Clarity sought and given


https://twitter.com/sendboyle/status/1236324117516816384

SeanW

Note to Dan Boyle. We're not prejudiced against your party.

You've proven yourselves to be a bunch of incoherent gob****es and 92.9% of us rendered our judgement accordingly in the last election.

Stan27

Drove from galway to cork yesterday, really need that motorway.

Cork Trucker

Stan27 wrote: »

Drove from galway to cork yesterday, really need that motorway.

It’s all grand coming from Galway until you have to take the M20 exit for charleville, only then does the real fun start