Answerin yer Questions

Gillo

Diogenes wrote: »

I'm not saying I'm the expert. But if you'd care to examine my previous posts on this forum and point out where I am wrong, I'm all ears.

Apologies the question was directed at mahatma

bonkey

Kernel wrote: »

Bonkey, why resort to such pedantry as in the last sentances of your post?

To make it abundantly clear just how credible and worthwhile I consider the line of argument-from-incredulity to be, particularly whilst simultaneously shifting any and all burden of proof away from having to establish that your question has merit in the first place.

Do you believe that the death camps could have processed so many in their years of operation? It would amount to around 5, 500 people per day would it not?

Kernel...if you have a problem with the official figures, then you go and work out how they calculated them, and show where the flaws in those calculations are.

Until then, I'm not playing this game, where you shift the burden of having to establish that your claim has merit by simply restating (in different ways) your disbelief in large numbers, and asking me whether or not I agree or disagree.

The value of 6,000,000 wasn't just dreamed up. You know this and I know this. There was research done, evidence examined, and conclusions reached. You apparently want to either disregard all of this - to avoid addressing it at all.

If you want to attack the conclusion, you need to show that the evidence which led to the conclusion is wrong. Asking me what I believe doesn't change that.

Kernel

bonkey wrote: »

Kernel...if you have a problem with the official figures, then you go and work out how they calculated them, and show where the flaws in those calculations are.

Until then, I'm not playing this game, where you shift the burden of having to establish that your claim has merit by simply restating (in different ways) your disbelief in large numbers, and asking me whether or not I agree or disagree.

The value of 6,000,000 wasn't just dreamed up. You know this and I know this. There was research done, evidence examined, and conclusions reached. You apparently want to either disregard all of this - to avoid addressing it at all.

If you want to attack the conclusion, you need to show that the evidence which led to the conclusion is wrong. Asking me what I believe doesn't change that.

Where do the figures come from then??

bonkey

Kernel wrote: »

Where do the figures come from then??

Kernel...if you don't know that, then it would appear that your argument can be summarised as follows:

"I have no idea how they arrived at this number. Based on that total lack of information and a difficulty to accept its conclusions, I choose to consider the results suspect enough to question or reject".

Is that what you're saying?

mumhaabu

Did Jesus actually have a kid?

Diogenes

Kernel wrote:

Where do the figures come from then??

Senior Nazi sources put the death toil at 6 million. The head of Auschwitz Stated at it's peak the camp could kill 20,000 people, a day.

Once again your basic lack of imagination and comprehension of the sheer industrialisation of the Nazi death machine over the course of half a decade is your only issue here.

Kernel

Diogenes wrote: »

Senior Nazi sources put the death toil at 6 million. The head of Auschwitz Stated at it's peak the camp could kill 20,000 people, a day.

Once again your basic lack of imagination and comprehension of the sheer industrialisation of the Nazi death machine over the course of half a decade is your only issue here.

More personal abuse from Diogenes. How surprising. Can you provide links which I can read to back up this information?

Diogenes

Kernel wrote: »

More personal abuse from Diogenes. How surprising. Can you provide links which I can read to back up this information?

http://www1.yadvashem.org/about_holocaust/faqs/answers/faq_3.html

A detailed list of over four million jewish victims of the holocaust.

Hey Kernel knock yourself out. Go give me evidence that your figures are accurate just don't say "nah I don't believe it, two million tops" etc, those of us who have studied or researched the sheer terrifying scale of the holocaust, are outraged by the base ignorance of those who support holocaust denial and those who use holocaust denial to support a anti-Semitic agenda.

Kernel

Diogenes wrote: »

Hey Kernel knock yourself out. Go give me evidence that your figures are accurate just don't say "nah I don't believe it, two million tops" etc, those of us who have studied or researched the sheer terrifying scale of the holocaust, are outraged by the base ignorance of those who support holocaust denial and those who use holocaust denial to support a anti-Semitic agenda.

1) I'm not anti-Semitic, nor do I have such an agenda - do not insinuate that.

2) I never put forward any figure, merely asked questions relating to the official figure. As such, I need present no evidence, merely disseminate the information you have presented in the link.

Diogenes

Kernel wrote: »

1) I'm not anti-Semitic, nor do I have such an agenda - do not insinuate that.

I never did. Oh wait. Paranoid much?

Scratch a conspiracy theorist and find a holocaust denier. Shall we have some ****s and giggles where I point out the links between major conspiracy theories and anti semitic racists?

2) I never put forward any figure, merely asked questions relating to the official figure. As such, I need present no evidence, merely disseminate the information you have presented in the link.

Um, er, Liar?

Kernal wrote:

I doubt the camps could have processed 6 million people. That's the population of a small country. No doubt they did participate in a massive campaign of ethnic cleansing in such a vile way - but 6 million in 3 years?

You're clearly disputing what is regarded as the official figure.

Hell you are engaging in David Irving esque gymnastics, you're blatantly refuting the figure without offering a framework for you alternative supposition and death toil.

Hey Kernel two simple questions.

What do you think was the death toil of the final solution of the Jewish question?

And can you back that up with facts?

50 quid to the Santa Strike Force says no*







*this is an actual claim, I will donate 50 euro to the santa strike force if kernel gives his best guess to the death toil of the holocaust*, I will accept reputable sources and will bow to muji's call as to whether these sources are acceptable

* I claim the death toil at 5.5 to 6 million jews, Kernel denies it.

Kernel

Diogenes wrote: »

I never did. Oh wait. Paranoid much?

Scratch a conspiracy theorist and find a holocaust denier. Shall we have some ****s and giggles where I point out the links between major conspiracy theories and anti semitic racists?

Of course you insinuated that. Conspiracy theories = anti-semitism? Ridiculous! :rolleyes:

Diogenes wrote: »

Um, er, Liar?

I am not a liar, I put forward no figures of my own. Doubting the figure of 6 million is clearly not putting forward your own figure. Indeed, most scholars seem to be in disagreement over the 6 million figure too. I would accept that there is evidence for 4 million, but there's a big difference between 4 million and 6 million.

Diogenes wrote: »

What do you think was the death toil of the final solution of the Jewish question?

I have no idea. I'm not a holocaust expert. I merely asked was it possible for the death toll to be so high. Bonkey understands, I'm sure. He'll explain to you.

Diogenes wrote: »

* I claim the death toil at 5.5 to 6 million jews, Kernel denies it.

I question it... there's a difference.

Diogenes

Kernel wrote: »

Of course you insinuated that. Conspiracy theories = anti-semitism? Ridiculous! :rolleyes:

No it's not from the protocols of elders of zion to "no jews turned up for work on 911" jew's turn up with depressing frequency among conspiracy theory.

I am not a liar, I put forward no figures of my own. Doubting the figure of 6 million is clearly not putting forward your own figure. Indeed, most scholars seem to be in disagreement over the 6 million figure too. I would accept that there is evidence for 4 million, but there's a big difference between million and 6 million.

Pathetic. You doubt the figure of 6 million, but accept the figure of 4 million, But then claim "I put no figure of my own"? Grow a spine, if you dispute the genuinely accepted figure, grow a pair, and put it forward. Alternatively put forward some evidence to support your assertion. You'll notice you asked me to do a few posts ago and I did. Got the courage of your own convictions?

I have no idea. I'm not a holocaust expert. I merely asked was it possible for the death toll to be so high. Bonkey understands, I'm sure. He'll explain to you.

If you think a poster like bonkey agrees with you, you're even more deluded than I thought.

I question it... there's a difference.

Oh I question, I just use rational, evidence, and logic to weigh up said evidence.

Kernel

Diogenes wrote: »

Pathetic. You doubt the figure of 6 million, but accept the figure of 4 million, But then claim "I put no figure of my own"? Grow a spine, if you dispute the genuinely accepted figure, grow a pair, and put it forward. Alternatively put forward some evidence to support your assertion. You'll notice you asked me to do a few posts ago and I did. Got the courage of your own convictions?

Pathetic eh? Lol, what's pathetic is your inability to read my posts properly. I already said that I am not an expert on the holocaust, and have no figure of my own. I merely question whether 6 million would be a possible figure. Nothing wrong with questioning things in an educated society. I accept evidence for 4 million. So what's your problem? There could have been 6, but I would need to research evidence for that. :rolleyes:

Diogenes wrote: »

If you think a poster like bonkey agrees with you, you're even more deluded than I thought.

Whether Bonkey agrees with me or not is not the issue. At least Bonkey understands my points and attempts to refute them. You, on the other hand, are no Bonkey - as has been said before.

Diogenes wrote: »

Oh I question, I just use rational, evidence, and logic to weigh up said evidence.

I doubt it very much.

Oracle

I don't want to be a party pooper but what is the point of this thread? (Besides particular individuals having an argy bargy over topics they clearly don't agree on, and never will.) I think this thread should be locked.

Diogenes

Kernel wrote: »

Pathetic eh? Lol, what's pathetic is your inability to read my posts properly. I already said that I am not an expert on the holocaust, and have no figure of my own. I merely question whether 6 million would be a possible figure. Nothing wrong with questioning things in an educated society. I accept evidence for 4 million. So what's your problem? There could have been 6, but I would need to research evidence for that. :rolleyes:

A few simple questions for you Kernel, what evidence have you seen that makes you think 4 million, and not 6 million died in the holocaust?

I doubt it very much.

What you doubt and what you can prove are vastly different things.

Mahatma coat

ya know this was supposed to be the thread where I answered specific questions about my economic policy, course no one wants to discuss that cos you can generate way more outrage talkin about the holocaust.

Diogenes

Mahatma coat wrote: »

ya know this was supposed to be the thread where I answered specific questions about my economic policy, course no one wants to discuss that cos you can generate way more outrage talkin about the holocaust.

Your OP wrote:

Answerin yer Questions
Right I've made a few starts at doin this, but there are so many off Topic points in each thread that I felt it a good idea to start a whole new thread, just to get it out of the way so we can proceed onto other matters.


So if anyone out there would like to ask me their loaded questions I'll try to respond as best I can

Do I see the words "economic" or "policy" in your first post?

miju

Kernel, Diogenes is not trolling or being abusive (perhaps a little grating ) but none the less he's doing no wrong.

Kernel

miju wrote: »

Kernel, Diogenes is not trolling or being abusive (perhaps a little grating ) but none the less he's doing no wrong.

Can I say he is an ignorant idiot/lunatic from the tube station and question his intelligence in all my posts so?

Grating is one term, bullying posters interested in the subject matter of this forum is another. I could show a list of Diogenes previous posts since he began in this forum, but I don't have time.

Diogenes

Kernel wrote: »

Can I say he is an ignorant idiot/lunatic from the tube station and question his intelligence in all my posts so?

Grating is one term, bullying posters interested in the subject matter of this forum is another. I could show a list of Diogenes previous posts since he began in this forum, but I don't have time.

And I could post some of the threads you've started demanding other posters leave this forum, even naming names. I'd really not start throwing stones here Kernel, the insurance premium on those glass houses is just dire.

Now instead of getting all irate, you could explain how, and why you feel the the figure of 4 million is more accurate than the widely accepted 6 million figure for Jews in the holocaust.

Otherwise I have some great Brie and Camembert, to compliment your rather tedious whining.

Flamed Diving

Diogenes wrote: »

And I could post some of the threads you've started demanding other posters leave this forum, even naming names. I'd really not start throwing stones here Kernel, the insurance premium on those glass houses is just dire.

Now instead of getting all irate, you could explain how, and why you feel the the figure of 4 million is more accurate than the widely accepted 6 million figure for Jews in the holocaust.

Otherwise I have some great Brie and Camembert, to compliment your rather tedious whining.

class

Kernel

Diogenes wrote: »

And I could post some of the threads you've started demanding other posters leave this forum, even naming names. I'd really not start throwing stones here Kernel, the insurance premium on those glass houses is just dire.

Now instead of getting all irate, you could explain how, and why you feel the the figure of 4 million is more accurate than the widely accepted 6 million figure for Jews in the holocaust.

Otherwise I have some great Brie and Camembert, to compliment your rather tedious whining.

OK, I'll accept a figure of 79.

Diogenes

Kernel wrote: »

OK, I'll accept a figure of 79.

Gosh er it's like you're trying to dig out your claim, with a vague attempt at humour, christ Kernel grow a pair, if you think the the holocaust was exaggerated by a third, come up with some evidence.

If unless you want come up with some random alternative number and throw it out there, and snicker incapable of justifying your vapid insecure guess, you're just exposing yourself as an intellectual coward.

Well done Kernel.

Diogenes

Kernel wrote: »

OK, I'll accept a figure of 79.

No really why? Because the accounts of thousands of british, soviet, and US military medical personal about the camps, is irreverent to you?

Seriously Kernel why don't you get a pair . and actually justify why you claim 79 people died in holocaut.

Alternatively you could explain about double standards, a claim which would be ironic if you possessed standards.

Mahatma coat

heres the thing tho, if I(or anyone else on the PRO Conspiracy side) were to submit a few posts in the same snide condescending style as Diogeness I would be banned, wouldnt I?

actualy, casey, wanna do something nice for the rest of us next re-reg ? :D

Kernel

Diogenes wrote: »

Gosh er it's like you're trying to dig out your claim, with a vague attempt at humour, christ Kernel grow a pair, if you think the the holocaust was exaggerated by a third, come up with some evidence.

If unless you want come up with some random alternative number and throw it out there, and snicker incapable of justifying your vapid insecure guess, you're just exposing yourself as an intellectual coward.

Well done Kernel.

Yes, I'm a coward, and you're a big coward too Diogenes. You need to grow a pair and stop hiding behind your ignorant skepticism. You loony slightly right of centre skeptics are smoking too many drugs. If you understood anything, you'd know that 911 was an inside job. That's right. Case closed.

Kernel

Diogenes wrote: »

No really why? Because the accounts of thousands of british, soviet, and US military medical personal about the camps, is irreverent to you?

You're right, I don't revere the thousands of accounts. I hold no awe, only sadness for those accounts.

Skeptic_Desu

Kernel wrote: »

Yes, I'm a coward, and you're a big coward too Diogenes. You need to grow a pair and stop hiding behind your ignorant skepticism. You loony slightly right of centre skeptics are smoking too many drugs. If you understood anything, you'd know that 911 was an inside job. That's right. Case closed.

Well that flurry of logic, evidence and reason sure has convinced me.

Still haven't answered why you think the figure is off by two million though

Kernel

Skeptic_Desu wrote: »

Well that flurry of logic, evidence and reason sure has convinced me.

Still haven't answered why you think the figure is off by two million though

Well, as a show of good faith I'll accept that 4 million actual verifiable names have been presented by the Israeli organisation in charge of finding names for holocausts. If I really was paranoid I'd disregard that as numbers killed during the conflict and displaced and lost. But I'm not, so I accept 4 million. Prove to me that it was 6 and I'll accept that if the evidence is strong enough. If it was 6 million, those death camps must have been more efficient that the Toyota factories of today.

Diogenes

Firstly never post from your new mobile on your way back from the pub. Sorry.

Kernel the yadvesh group have identified 4 million people, they also say there are many million more they haven't been capable of identifying.

If you're taking their figure as acceptable you're also taking their word that there are further bodies and victims they haven't identified.

Oh and the death toil in total for the holocaust is put at 9 to 11 million, so yes the camps were models of efficiency.